GNU discussion (was re:Free your phone)

David Ford david at
Tue Jan 23 03:51:19 CET 2007

Nor does it give you (or your side of the fence) the right to make 
statements as fact that the other side clearly disagrees with and 
continue to imply they are fact.

Such statements are just as inflammatory and to repeatedly state them is 
a thinly veiled personal attack.

I stopped talking about this for a while to show maturity.  During my 
period of restraint Crossland has filled the void with "GNU is teh 
stuff!" with every other breath.  I have no anger toward Crossland, just 
annoyance at the blatant "fact" pushing that isn't fact at all and the 
misrepresentation of fact and implication that because he didn't see 
proof of my existence and software 25 years ago then my statements 
should be voided.  He isn't being accurate as he bluntly stated.

That's quite annoying and stereotypical of proselytizing (yeah, I felt 
the word was appropriate too by now) and you're taking the apparent view 
that he is 100% right and feel necessary to hit back at anyone that 
disagrees.  David's response being a personal attack is vague.

There are clearly advocates on both sides of the fence and everybody 
knows that you guys aren't going to agree with our opinion and we aren't 
going to agree with your opinion.  Note that I said opinion, not facts.  
Just because GNU made a webpage on something doesn't mean it's the one 
true set of facts or even factual at all.

Here are some FACTS:

- Free software existed before GNU
- Free software philosophies and movements existed before GNU
- Free software will continue to exist after GNU
- Free software philosophies and movements will continue to exist after GNU
- GNU is not the One True Way (tm) of free software, never was, and 
never will be

It's okay for you to disagree, but this doesn't give you the right to 
keep browbeating people into accepting the religion of GNU.


Renaissance Man wrote:
> David, if you're not interested in the topic take note of the subject 
> in your inbox and stop reading the thread. Don't troll the thread with 
> inflammatory arguments and personal attacks.
> You may have made up your mind but there are clearly other people who 
> would like to continue the discussion, since they're asking questions. 
> Crossland was doing just that, answering someone's question.
> It's okay for you to disagree, but this doesn't give you the right to 
> keep browbeating people into stopping the discussion.
> Renaissance Man
> On 22 Jan 2007, at 7:29 pm, David Schlesinger wrote:
>>> I like to be accurate and know what I am talking about, and I like 
>>> others to be too :-)
>> It simply never ends, does it?
>> Feel entirely free to call it "GNU/Linux", "Bob/Linux", "Jim/Linux" 
>> or whatever you like, okay. But _please_ stop proselytizing.
>> Have you ever noticed how folks with a zealot-like position assume, 
>> that when you disagree with them, that it represents some failure of 
>> adequate (or maybe adequately _repeated_) explanation on their part...?
>> I get it, okay? I disagree. Telling me that "GNU" is a "principal 
>> developer" doesn't make it so and opinions clearly vary here.
>> So, why don't you let those of use who choose to use a more commonly 
>> accepted, no less accurate, and more generally understood name simply 
>> do so?
>> I can just see some poor fellow asking a sales-droid what the actual 
>> difference is between "Linux" ("I've _heard_ of _that_!") and 
>> "_GNU_/Linux".
>> "So, it's something _different_ than Linux?"
>> "Yes, it's more conducive to personal freedom and encourages 
>> community better."
>> "Does it make the phone _do_ anything different?"
>> "Other than encouraging freedom, no."
>> "Um, mm-kay... I realy just wanted a cell phone... Maybe I should get 
>> a Microsoft one instead; I've _heard_ of that. I don't what what this 
>> GNU stuff is, but I never heard of it, so I don't know whether it 
>> really works or not... Are you sure you don't have one that just runs 
>> _Linux_...?"
>> "Sorry, nope. Ya _fascist._"
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