Please no spreading flame wars about licence and free software in every thread!

Robert Michel openmoko at
Fri Jan 26 02:21:30 CET 2007

Salve Dave and all others who loves to discuss about eggs from an unborn bird!

I hope that this thread will not blow up like the GNU/Linux discussion,
by people which hasn't consider that Harald Welte is behind OpenMoko nor 
Seans presentation in Amsterdam that making money with OpenMoko/Neo1973 will
be possible.

I'm active on this list since the beginning, as a student very
interested in this project with absolutly trust in Sean and his team
that it will be a very good and open project.

My intention with my mails on this list was starting this mailinglist becomming
active and motivate people to join - to share their ideas. To find
together examples that shows how operfull OpenMoko/Neo1973 could be
when mobil computer, GSM/GPRS, (indoor)GPS, GNU/Linux and good and
creative people come to gether.

Since last Sunday I'm disappointed about this mailinglist - I never
thought that the GNU Linux thread would grow to such a flame war and
including starting become personal.

Huuu - hey did you forget that:
- this project is about creating something new? 
- And that this phone is around communications power based on open
- That is is about cooperation?

So this means:
- respect for the others,
- patience, e.g. untill this project starts for the public
- and the willingness to join compromises.

Dave Crossland schrieb am Donnerstag, den 25. Januar 2007 um 22:56h:

> On 25/01/07, Robert Michel <openmoko at> wrote:
> >> I was
> >> thinking, if the OpenMoko phone had an easy  way for people to add
> >> applications like the Widgets, the average user would like it.  ( I
> >> would be willing to pay the developer after a trial).
> >
> >I guess the most software will be free...
> Many free software projects accept donations, and if you are willing
> to pay the developers after enjoying their software, I feel it is
> important to donate a little.

I've not this feeling about money.

> Free software is about 'without restrictions' not 'without paying,'
> like "free speech" instead of "free beer" :-)

Please do not start here a general discussion here - when you will not
strengthen my feeling that some people start writing on this list with
the primary interest to harm OpenMoko/Neo1973. :(((

You are right, I wanted to write that I expect that the most core
software will be available without paying like openwrt or debian,
this is something that I want to stress because I have the feeling
that some people started to be interested in OpenMoko/Neo1973 without
having using GNU/Linux, yet.

And of course IMHO could a Neo1973 coustomer expect that the core software
will be free for him and get updates, especialy security updates. ;)

So my answer was just for those is unclear what we mean when talking about
apt-get install software
that e.g. Debian is a sytem/distribution with 15.000 precompiled packages,
getting all from one source - I choose between 15.000 programs, can get
them, install and use them without the need to pay 1 cent! 
Totaly leagal - and I get a more secure system, like with most of
commercial software - much more secure then normal 
M$+personalfirewalls+viruscans+shareware sytems.

Why do you started a new "flame war" here and adding the mail adress
of the original poster Marry again in the header?
Do you know what I thought as I wrote:
> > It seems that we haven't scare you away with all our "ideas" "maybe"
> > "next version..."
It seems that we haven't scare you away with this unsake GNU Linux

BTW please take a look here:

When you claim that everybody who is using free software is bind in honour
to donate (money) to the developers, that are you fare away from the
common sence of GNU/Linux.

You can't publish your software under a free licence and than yammer
that the users have the honour to donate.....

AFAIK will OpenMoko not become a shareware portal, where the users
get software with the premission to test it for a while and than to
have to pay the developers.

When the user like the OpenMoko software instead of spending money 
telling others about it, helping others to start with OpenMoko, writing
(positive) about OpenMoko, helping with writing the documentation
could be more productive/better ....

And short, when you do not see the sence to spend time without paiment
hacking and development should be fun, and about learning new skills.
Also consider, as more populare OpenMoko/Neo1973 will be, as more 
knowledge and reputation you have with OpenMoko as developer, as more 
likly is that you can get a well paid job like frome a agency which 
likes to  have 10.000 devices with a special software solution.....

GNU/Linux adult and since years ready that commerial and non-commerial
projects are thrive and prosper parallel and in cooperation and there
are realy many strategies how a cooperation of non-commerial community
and a commercial side will looks like.

I do 100% trust Sean, Harald and the others that they find a strategie
that is fair and fruitfull for FIC, external developers and users.
And if you have doupts - now is not the time to discuss your concerns
this would be something about eggs from an unborn bird.

It was already *very* unproductive and bad to spin Seans anouncement into
a flame war about GPL instad to use this chance to show to external
persons like journalists or new interested persons that a growing
community is supporting FIC/OpenMoko/Neo1973.

So I realy plead *every body on this list* to consider twice what and
how he is writing something on this list. Kindergarden style discussion
or just the 111541th discussion about GPL will not help that OpenMoko
looks strong and trustable.

When somebody writes new here on the list, he should get a warm welcome,
get respect even when she/he is no developer and should be encouraged to
participate, to share her/his wishes, ideas and solutions.
So when it is obvious that she/he hasn't work with GNU/Linux jet, there
is no need to start a general discussion and fight what free software
is and what it is not.

I apply for a I-like-to-have-flame-wars-about-licences at 
And until we do not have this mailinglist, I please you to do not
start or continous inside of other threads with

Even when you or the others means it in a positive intention IMHO it
is absolutly negative on this list.
Wait until Sean will explain more the strategie about licences and
how the users can get OpenMoko software.

Every discussion before Seans explaination is not only speculation
and to early - it is unfruitfull and negative 
- it scare awy interested people,
- give a bad atmosphre on the list and lame the team..Sean, Harald, Mickey...
- and will give a bad light on the community when the media is looking at us.

So please be patient to wait to hear more how OpenMoko
will be organized.

Excuse me when this is a little bit to much in reaction on your mail
- I have no listmaster experiance and I will not play such a role.
I only know that the atmosphere on this list was better before the
Gnu Linux flameware and that this should not spread into other threads.

Thank you.

(reminder - I will not start a general discussion,
 please wait until Monday to answer my mail, when
 you still then think, that it is necessary.)

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