Stage of GTA03 development?

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) raster at
Fri Dec 19 00:04:37 CET 2008

On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:52:51 +0100 Helge Hafting <helge.hafting at>

> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 12:24:52 +0100 Michael Zanetti <michael_zanetti at>
> > babbled:
> > 
> >> As It seems this thread is becoming more and more some sort of a
> >> whish-list, I will put my 2ct here also:
> >>
> >> - Please don't add a camera: Has ever anyone made a picture with a mobile 
> >> phone camera that doesn't suck? Get a real camera if you want to make some 
> >> nice pictures! There is just one way to get a useful camera within a
> >> mobile phone: Using very expensive optical lens and zooming technologies.
> >> But in that case, I'd prefer to use the money for a 3G modem which brings
> >> me to the next point in my whishlist.
> > 
> > i have. and millions of japanese have. in japan the mobile is pretty much
> > replacing the low-to-mid-end camera. for "happy time" snaps. why? their
> > lenses and cameras are GOOD. 5+mpixel was available years ago.
> > 
> What kind of camera are these phones replacing? Credit-card sized 
> cameras that indeed are as lousy as phone cameras are?
> Note that it isn't merely a question of megapixels. More pixels
> doesn't make the image better, if the sensor stays as small. Smaller
> pixels create lots of noise, and have no dynamic range. You could 
> manufacture a 20 megapixel sensor small enough to go in a phone - no
> problem for the factory. It'd be useless though.

i know. it's also a factor of lens - and they have been putting in higher-end
lenses and sensors for a while now. they're far ahead of "western phones". 3
years ago they had 5mpixel cameras on phones with good "compact" lenses (the
kind you find on the more compact digi cams). things have been moving in leaps
and bounds since then.

but more to the point - travel around japan. watch people on holiday (the
japanese) or watch them when they travel. guess what the camera of choice is
that they pull out? not their nikon d80 or canon ixus or whatever. it's their
phone. they are always taking tonnes of photos with their phones. it's probably
the most used type of camera (if comparing against compact cams + dslr's) by
quote a margin. and they are happy with it.

the most high-tech phone market in the world (and i am going to stand by that)
is happy with their phones as cameras - and these people guy new phones just
because its new and has a bigger checklist of features than the previous one.
they care about technology and they are happy with it. they happen to have the
most advanced phones around (8 months+ ago i was walking through yodobashi
looking at phones with 832x480 3" screens. already on sale. not just announced,
but on shelves and being purchased - just as an example).

> It'd be nice if a camera is optional, at least. Some doesn't want to pay
> for it, some want to use the camera where cameras aren't allowed. And
> consider the market - this hacker's phone are for technically interested
> people, most of who get a decent camera if they want to take pictures.

the problem is - if you make it optional it all becomes more expensive as you
need to have multiple production lines and multiple case designs - in the end
its CHEAPER to ship a camera for everyone. that's the reality of the embedded
market. you could only combine removal of camera with removal of several other
high-cost parts (eg go from 3g to 2g, remove wifi and gps) so the actual cost
difference is signficant enough to service a market segment you otherwise
would not have reached. but this now is a matter for the sales and marketing
people to guess - does such a thing really net them more sales in the end. i
can't say for cure - but i know the principles - i just lack the in-depth view
of the market as a whole.

> And of course, a pop-out camera leaves room that can be used for
> something else. Such as room for several SD-cards, perhaps even that
> secondary SIM option. More SDcards is good - one for the OS and one
> that can be changed with the system running. (Or RAID, for the specially 
> interested :-) Two SIMs are what business users want - one for
> private use and one for company use.

moving parts == bad. prone to failure/break - even at production time as
testing may say "go" but the part loosens during shipping as its intended to be
loose/move. it's something makers like to avoid if they can.

> >> - 3G connectivity: Although it is very expensive, I think we _really_ need 
> >> this one. I know so many people who would like to buy a Freerunner, but
> >> they don't do so because of the missing UMTS connectivity.
> Nice to have, and why so expensive? If the problem is small series,
> cooperate with some other phone manufacturer and have them resell a
> small portion of their large shipment of 3G chips.

HAHAHAHAHA co-operate with a rival? let a rival help a competitor? hehehehe.

> >> - The rest could stay just as it is in GTA 02. Im perfectly happy with it. 
> >> Perhaps the slow Glamo could be exchanged... But afaik this is done
> >> already...
> Yes, it is necessary to update the whole screen in a timely manner. Full 
> screen
> video ought to be ok, and this would speed up the GUI in general too.
> Helge Hafting
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The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at

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