Virtual QWERTY Keyboards to be used with Fingers...
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
raster at openmoko.org
Sun Feb 24 10:14:15 CET 2008
On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 04:53:34 -0300 "Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri"
<barbieri at profusion.mobi> babbled:
i intend to first give a predictive qwerty keyboard a go - why? well qwerty is
familiar and requires only 1 press per letter. it seems the qtopia predictive
kbd works pretty well on the gta01 and gta02 - so now it's a cvhance to improve
on it wiht configurable layout, keys etc. etc.
> On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 10:43 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> <mail at 3v1n0.net> wrote:
> > Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri ha scritto:
> > > On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 6:49 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> > > <mail at 3v1n0.net> wrote:
> > >> I'm really excited waiting for the Freerunner to be available to the
> > >> public, so I'm looking around searching the resources I'll need more.
> > >>
> > >> I think that one of the most important thing when it comes to the daily
> > >> phone use, is the virtual input device that imho it should be
> > >> completely usable with *fingers* (the stilus isn't portable!) giving
> > >> the users the same confort that the key-based devices give.
> > >>
> > >> To get the best usability and speed while writing I do think that is
> > >> needed a QWERTY style keyboard (If you've ever tried a blackberry you'd
> > >> know what I mean).
> > >> Actually there are two alternatives: the QTopia predictive keyboard 
> > >> that works quite well if used with a good dictionary (also if it should
> > >> be improved for writing new words), and the iphone-like virtual
> > >> keyboard  that is already available for N800 and that should be
> > >> easily portable to Openmoko too.
> > >>
> > >> Any other? If there are some others I don't know them, but the
> > >> solutions I've tried using the Openmoko GUI with qemu aren't so good
> > >> imho. I think that some virtual qwerty keyboards should be developed
> > >> also considering that Openmoko supports the landscape view (not using
> > >> accelerometers yet, but it does it!) and that mode could/should be used
> > >> for writing, so we could use more space to put keys in!
> > >
> > > Hi Marco,
> > Hi Gustavo!
> > > I disagree on this, QWERTY keyboard is a no-go for OpenMoko. I'm using
> > > iPhone for about 2 months and I wrote the one you cited, so I think I
> > > have some knowledge about it :-)
> > >
> > > Reasons:
> > > - iPhone vkbd is not so great, even on iPhone hardware. The
> > > landscape version is almost usable, but the vertical is bad - but
> > > acceptable, see below.
> > Well, I've tried the iPhone virtual keybard (not only on the iPhone but
> > also in the iPod touch, that it's the same) and it's not so bad imho...
> > Of course the vertical view is really better than the landscape one but
> > considering how I use the T9 based phones, I'm really a much faster
> I guess you mean the other way around, using keyboard in landscape
> mode (like iPhone browser)
> > writer using this kind of keyboard, also if sometimes I do mistakes.
> > That's why I think that the pressure should be compared char-by-char
> > with a dictionary!
> > > - iPhone has no sunken screen, with borders that make you loose many
> > > physical space. This happens on Maemo devices as N800 and it's painful
> > > in Canola and that vkbd mockup I wrote. I do not have a OpenMoko
> > > hardware yet, but I suspect it will be even worse, as the screen is
> > > more high dpi and smaller in physical size.
> > Yes, that's could be true, but in landscape view I think it could be
> > usable in Freerunner too...
> I dare to say it's not even without trying. Our experience with Canola
> is that you waste more than 30px in each edge due the border, in
> OpenMoko it should be even more. Given that each click area must be
> around 100x100 to have good hit rate, then you guess you'd not have
> much space to fit around 10 keys on 1 row.
> > > - iPhone has a capacitive (not pressure based), VERY sensitive touch
> > > screen.
> > > - Running my prototype on N800 was not so bad because the screen is
> > > huge and you have plenty of space, but you often miss some clicks due
> > > the pressure based touch screen.
> > I don't know how it is in Freerunner, but there's no software control on
> > it?
> it's a physical limitation: the screen need pressure to emit hardware
> signals, while the capacitive just needs contact, you barely need to
> touch in order to produce hardware signals.
> > > That's why I think it's not a good option. We better keep with some
> > > kind variation of T9. I already talked to rasterman about that and he
> > > have a great idea of a key matrix (3x3 or 4x3) that would behave like
> > > number keypad, but the labels would weight the key with greatest
> > > probability of being used (based on dicts, T9 like).
> > As I've said, I don't love T9 neither 9x9 keyboards as they're commonly
> > meant (the ones used for years by key-based phones) maybe Lars
> > Hallberg keyboards  are a little more usable...
> I think it's not much diferent from T9, just a implementation that
> utilizes software capabilities better.
> > > The major problem with T9 is it takes time to train and have it behave
> > > fine for you. One option would be to provide a service (pc, web or on
> > > the device itself) to feed with personal texts (mails, docs, ... text
> > > you wrote) so it will optimize for it. Other improvements could be
> > > abbreviations and maybe mode selection to use even more optimized
> > > dicts (language based and terms based, like "polite", "3733t speech",
> > > "development"...).
> > This is a good idea...
> > > What we need to do is implement something fast, with good feedback and
> > > users will get used... people already got used to write "graffiti",
> > > T9, ... and even QWERTY... they will learn yet another, just make the
> > > behavior predictable and help the user whenever possible.
> > Of course, but the one I feel better with (and with I'm more productive)
> > is the QWERTY way :P, maybe because I'm using it for too many years! :P
> yeah, mee too, but physical space is an important issue we have to deal
> with :-/
> Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
> http://profusion.mobi - Embedded and Mobile Software Development
> MSN: barbieri at gmail.com
> Skype: gsbarbieri
> Mobile: +55 (81) 9927 0010
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <raster at openmoko.org>
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