Virtual QWERTY Keyboards to be used with Fingers...
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
raster at openmoko.org
Sun Feb 24 17:10:15 CET 2008
On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 05:38:50 -0500 "Kevin Dean" <kevin at foreverdean.info>
babbled:
> Having fussed myself about the change from QWERTY to T9, what raster
> is planning solves the issue. I actually prefer non-qwerty as long as
> there's some kind of predictive input that reduced the number of key
> presses.
>
> I'm quite excited to see what comes of this. Any idea where on this
> list of things to do this falls?
next month :)
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 4:14 AM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler
> <raster at openmoko.org> wrote:
> > On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 04:53:34 -0300 "Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri"
> > <barbieri at profusion.mobi> babbled:
> >
> > i intend to first give a predictive qwerty keyboard a go - why? well
> > qwerty is familiar and requires only 1 press per letter. it seems the
> > qtopia predictive kbd works pretty well on the gta01 and gta02 - so now
> > it's a cvhance to improve on it wiht configurable layout, keys etc. etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 10:43 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> > > <mail at 3v1n0.net> wrote:
> > > > Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri ha scritto:
> > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 6:49 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> > > > > <mail at 3v1n0.net> wrote:
> > > > >> I'm really excited waiting for the Freerunner to be available to
> > > > >> the public, so I'm looking around searching the resources I'll
> > > > >> need more.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I think that one of the most important thing when it comes to the
> > > > >> daily phone use, is the virtual input device that imho it should be
> > > > >> completely usable with *fingers* (the stilus isn't portable!)
> > > > >> giving the users the same confort that the key-based devices give.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> To get the best usability and speed while writing I do think that
> > > > >> is needed a QWERTY style keyboard (If you've ever tried a
> > > > >> blackberry you'd know what I mean).
> > > > >> Actually there are two alternatives: the QTopia predictive
> > > > >> keyboard [1] that works quite well if used with a good dictionary
> > > > >> (also if it should be improved for writing new words), and the
> > > > >> iphone-like virtual keyboard [2] that is already available for
> > > > >> N800 and that should be easily portable to Openmoko too.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Any other? If there are some others I don't know them, but the
> > > > >> solutions I've tried using the Openmoko GUI with qemu aren't so
> > > > >> good imho. I think that some virtual qwerty keyboards should be
> > > > >> developed also considering that Openmoko supports the landscape
> > > > >> view (not using accelerometers yet, but it does it!) and that mode
> > > > >> could/should be used for writing, so we could use more space to
> > > > >> put keys in!
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Marco,
> > > >
> > > > Hi Gustavo!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I disagree on this, QWERTY keyboard is a no-go for OpenMoko. I'm
> > > > > using iPhone for about 2 months and I wrote the one you cited, so I
> > > > > think I have some knowledge about it :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Reasons:
> > > > > - iPhone vkbd is not so great, even on iPhone hardware. The
> > > > > landscape version is almost usable, but the vertical is bad - but
> > > > > acceptable, see below.
> > > >
> > > > Well, I've tried the iPhone virtual keybard (not only on the iPhone
> > > > but also in the iPod touch, that it's the same) and it's not so bad
> > > > imho... Of course the vertical view is really better than the
> > > > landscape one but considering how I use the T9 based phones, I'm
> > > > really a much faster
> > >
> > > I guess you mean the other way around, using keyboard in landscape
> > > mode (like iPhone browser)
> > >
> > >
> > > > writer using this kind of keyboard, also if sometimes I do mistakes.
> > > > That's why I think that the pressure should be compared char-by-char
> > > > with a dictionary!
> > > >
> > > > > - iPhone has no sunken screen, with borders that make you loose
> > > > > many physical space. This happens on Maemo devices as N800 and it's
> > > > > painful in Canola and that vkbd mockup I wrote. I do not have a
> > > > > OpenMoko hardware yet, but I suspect it will be even worse, as the
> > > > > screen is more high dpi and smaller in physical size.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, that's could be true, but in landscape view I think it could be
> > > > usable in Freerunner too...
> > >
> > > I dare to say it's not even without trying. Our experience with Canola
> > > is that you waste more than 30px in each edge due the border, in
> > > OpenMoko it should be even more. Given that each click area must be
> > > around 100x100 to have good hit rate, then you guess you'd not have
> > > much space to fit around 10 keys on 1 row.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > - iPhone has a capacitive (not pressure based), VERY sensitive
> > > > > touch screen.
> > > > > - Running my prototype on N800 was not so bad because the screen
> > > > > is huge and you have plenty of space, but you often miss some
> > > > > clicks due the pressure based touch screen.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know how it is in Freerunner, but there's no software control
> > > > on it?
> > >
> > > it's a physical limitation: the screen need pressure to emit hardware
> > > signals, while the capacitive just needs contact, you barely need to
> > > touch in order to produce hardware signals.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > That's why I think it's not a good option. We better keep with some
> > > > > kind variation of T9. I already talked to rasterman about that and
> > > > > he have a great idea of a key matrix (3x3 or 4x3) that would behave
> > > > > like number keypad, but the labels would weight the key with
> > > > > greatest probability of being used (based on dicts, T9 like).
> > > >
> > > > As I've said, I don't love T9 neither 9x9 keyboards as they're
> > > > commonly meant (the ones used for years by key-based phones) maybe Lars
> > > > Hallberg keyboards [1] are a little more usable...
> > >
> > > I think it's not much diferent from T9, just a implementation that
> > > utilizes software capabilities better.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > The major problem with T9 is it takes time to train and have it
> > > > > behave fine for you. One option would be to provide a service (pc,
> > > > > web or on the device itself) to feed with personal texts (mails,
> > > > > docs, ... text you wrote) so it will optimize for it. Other
> > > > > improvements could be abbreviations and maybe mode selection to use
> > > > > even more optimized dicts (language based and terms based, like
> > > > > "polite", "3733t speech", "development"...).
> > > >
> > > > This is a good idea...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > What we need to do is implement something fast, with good feedback
> > > > > and users will get used... people already got used to write
> > > > > "graffiti", T9, ... and even QWERTY... they will learn yet another,
> > > > > just make the behavior predictable and help the user whenever
> > > > > possible.
> > > >
> > > > Of course, but the one I feel better with (and with I'm more
> > > > productive) is the QWERTY way :P, maybe because I'm using it for too
> > > > many years! :P
> > >
> > > yeah, mee too, but physical space is an important issue we have to deal
> > > with :-/
> > >
> > > --
> > > Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
> > > http://profusion.mobi - Embedded and Mobile Software Development
> > > --------------------------------------
> > > MSN: barbieri at gmail.com
> > > Skype: gsbarbieri
> > > Mobile: +55 (81) 9927 0010
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <raster at openmoko.org>
> >
> >
--
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <raster at openmoko.org>
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