ken at restivo.org
Sun Jul 20 00:42:58 CEST 2008
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:05:59PM +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:46:15 -0700 Ken Restivo <ken at restivo.org> babbled:
> > > i repeat... why ONE? why does everyone think we HAVE to support just ONE?
> > > why?
> > 1) reliability, bugfixes, fit and finish
> > 2) critical mass of applications
> > 3) usability
> > 4) it's a smartphone, I want to be able to actually use it, not just load
> > distros endlessly on it
> no - i'm talking toolkit. you are equating distro WITH toolkit. there is no
> need to do that. OM will ship with 1 image and will be building and supporting
> an official OM image. other people may build and support their own - this is
> distros here i am talking about. hey have the freedom toand more power to them!
> > > does your desktop linux distro ONLY run gtk apps? you can't use kde or qt
> > > apps? or SDL based games? or java apps? the desktop distro must also just
> > > choose ONE widget set and then all apps must use it? NO! this is wrong.
> > > please stop thinking this way. it's a limiting way of thinking. we have
> > > available to
> > I agree with you about the widget sets. I think it's foolish to try to lock a
> > distro to only one widget set, and thus ignore all the great apps that would
> > otherwise be available using another widget set. That said, I want only one
> > distro, which uses all the widget sets. My Debian system is loaded with apps
> > that use every widget set ever known to mankind (Tk, Gtk, Qt, KDE, FLTK,
> > whatever).
> that is what OM is working on - remember this is openembedded. you can install
> any package from an OE package feed you like! its not fixed.
> > > developers their FAVORITE languages and FAVORITE toolkits - they dont NEED
> > > to go learn anything! that is the whole point! use what you already know!
> > >
> > > > Unless you really don't aspire to make anything beyond phones for
> > > > systems techies, you will have to pick just one distro that the phone
> > > > will ship with, won't you? You surely cannot switch distros from time
> > > > to time, since your existing user and developer base will expect to
> > > > see some continuity.
> > >
> > > switching distro is up to you. OM will ship a distro by default we work on
> > > one. the content and flavor of that distro is aiming at the above - support
> > > as much as possible so we dont alienate people. if we said "only gtk apps
> > > in c" then all the python, ruby, java, c#, qt, c++ etc. devs run away, or
> > > HAVE to change.
> > Again, I'm very glad that the phone lets me program in Python, or C, or
> > whatever. It was a great thrill to sit here in my terminal and be working
> > with an interactive Python interpreter on my telephone. But, again, as a
> > user, I want one distro that has *everyone* pulling together to make it great
> > and solid-- using whatever programming language, widget set, etc, that
> > pleases them. Diversity in the service of unity. The two always exist
> > simultaneously in tension, and the great art is deciding where to apply the
> > diversity and where to apply the unity. I'm suggesting diversity in toolkits
> > and languages, in the service of unity of finished product.
> ALL the distros are based on openembedded. they are all compatible (same
> package manager, pakcaging systems, same base core os packages etc). they just
> all give you a different starting point.
#hank you for the detailed and informative response! I didn't understand any of the above (which was probably very obvious), and you made it very clear to me now. It seems to be a sensible approach. May I paraphrase some of this and turn it into a Wiki page? (Where exactly to put it would be another interesting question).
> think of it as ubuntu vs xubuntu vs kubuntu etc. its the same os. just
> different starting point.
> > > same if we said qt/c++ only, or phython only, or java only. why should you
> > > be boxed into a single box and a distro is only allowed to have 1 box? why?
> > > just because every other phone maker works this way does not mean we have
> > > to.
> > >
> > > > So perhaps I can clarify: what distro do you intend to ship with to end
> > > > users?
> > > >
> > > > If it is ASU, and I must wait, thats just fine with me, but your
> > > > response above seems to contradict that.
> > >
> > > ASU is what openmoko is working on.
> > >
> > > > I'd appreciate your helping us out here since I'm probably not the
> > > > only one confused ... what am I missing?
> > > >
> > Then ASU is the one I will work on too. I'm glad to be running it now. It
> > seems excellent. All I need is to get the matchbox keyboard to replace the
> > quite awful and useless keyboard that comes with ASU, and I'm all set to
> > really enjoy this thing.
> the default keyboard is just as usable as the matchbox one. there is a full
> qwerty layout file available for it. keyboard layout is just a config file.
> unlike the matchbox keyboard it is also usable with a finger not just a stylus.
Great! I didn't know that. Is this documented anywhere on the Wiki or should I start some page, i.e. Customizing_ASU_keyboard ?
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