Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld

John Lee john_lee at
Tue Jul 29 12:38:24 CEST 2008

On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 08:23:29AM +0200, Marcus Bauer wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 01:08 +0200, Kristian 'kriss' Mueller wrote:
> > Am Dienstag, den 29.07.2008, 00:46 +0200 schrieb Marcus Bauer:
> > > 
> > > The opposite is true. FSO forces you into ASU. It basically makes all
> > > work that has been put into OM2007.2 useless.
> > > 
> > > Please stop telling these lies.
> > 
> > Marcus, did I miss the irony here, or do you really believe this?
> This is simply a matter of fact, not of believe. FSO is a shitty API
> collection which is closely connected to ASU. Steve is a sales guy and
> has not much clue of the underlying software, thus he simply repeats
> what others told him.
> The bad combination is NIH (not invented here) together with
> almightyness thinking which results in all this religion here, making
> people like you ask whether I "believe". I don't believe, I simply know.

Part of my current work requires me to use fso daily.  It seems
strange that what I know seems to be different from what you know.

* fso does not force you to ASU or closely connected in any way.
  could you please elaborate?

  fso: an open specification dbus interface (
       + a reference design (frameworkd, check

  fso-image: fso + a reference python UI based on EFL.

  asu: a enlightenment WM for mobile phone (illume)
       + qtopia phone stack (not based on fso)
       + installer (EFL)
       + diversity (gps app based on EFL)
       + exposure (config app based on EFL)

the only similarity i can tell is EFL in fso-image.  but the fso
itself does NOT force you to use it, just the implemented reference UI
used it.  it's easy to do another reference UI with GTK.

> > Why should anyone at Openmoko want to keep out other frameworks, 
> > after even putting qtopia to X11?
> That was mostly Trolltech's work. And apart from that you technically
> can't "keep out" any other toolkit because there is Linux below and X on
> top of it.
> But FSO combines plenty of different things into one collection of API's
> and that is how the Microsoft world works and always did and which drove
> so many developers to Linux. If I use Apache as webserver I can use
> Konqueror, Opera, Safari or Firefox as browser. However, Microsoft has
> more than once tried to tie Internet Explorer to IIS, giving it an
> advantage over other browsers. Same goes for Microsoft Office and
> Windows.

exactly what are tied together here? 

i see the arguement here is probably 'fso makes anyone that wants to
develop on neo has to use this framework', but this is not true.  it
can make some developers' life easier but you don't have to use it.

for example, you can just run the ogpsd subsystem in frameworkd then
use phonekit + gsmd to handle gsm if you want.  on the other way
around, the frameworkd is just a reference design, anyone can take
libgsmd + gsmd to make the same interface on dbus.  any app on fso
will not notice.

> <snipped>
> FSO is the brainchild of Dr. Michael Lauer, fresh from the university's
> ivory tower but lacking any industry experience. It is reinventing the
> wheel and drains lots of ressources that are needed elsewhere inside of
> Openmoko. It combines plenty of things out of which one is a new PIM API
> based on dbus. This idea alone is worth to be mentioned every day for a
> year on the dailyWTF website.

could you explain why it's a WTF idea to have a PIM API on dbus?

> It is not about GTK or qt or ETK. It is about getting a working platform
> out to users and developers. OM2007.2 was mostly there. It reminds me to
> a joke:
>         Two fools try to escape from a lunatics hospital. There are 100
>         walls to climb over and so they start: 10, 20, 50, 90, 99. In
>         that moment says the one to the other: 'Lets go back and do the
>         last wall tomorrow'.
> ...have fun and enjoy life and start looking at the Neo what it is: a
> tiny Linux computer with a GPS and a GSM modem. There is no sudden
> revolution going to happen tomorrow.

there are technical reasons behind the re-implementation of gsm daemon
but I'm not the one to answer it.  I think the reason why you are
unhappy is that OM moved away from OM2007.2.  well,

1. you are obviously not the only one who felt this way.
2. that's a separate issue.

since OM will stick with fso in the foreseeable future, I think port
OM2007.2 app suites to fso is a logical move.  ogpsd is there based on
gypsy, and it should be just another backend of tangogps.

> Freedom is a synonym for choice. The choice for your keyboard, for your
> window manager, for you applications, last not least for your gsmd.

I like this sentence.  if most of the functionalities on my neo have a
unified dbus interface then i'm happy.  honestly i failed to see
anything wrong with this.


> FIC/Openmoko came to support Linux on their hardware platform in order
> to give you this choice. Now it has changed into some religious
> life-style thingy with phantasies of becoming tomorrows ubiquitious
> lifestyle equipment. Linux definitely will be, Openmoko can be part of
> it but thinking that Openmoko is the only parent is just megalomania.
> Come down to earth, stop excusing hardware flaws with "open" and
> "freedom", just sit down and fix them and Openmoko hardware will have a
> bright future.
> Best regards,
> Marcus

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