Mathieu Rochette mathroc at
Tue Jun 3 11:15:19 CEST 2008

On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 5:44 AM, Stroller <linux.luser at> wrote:

> On 2 Jun 2008, at 12:06, Mathieu Rochette wrote:
> >
> > I recently discover the foxytag project . I'm wondering if this
> > apps could run on the freerunner, if so I'll definitly buy one :D
> > amAze will soon integrate foxytag but I think the software
> > requierement are the same as each apps is a java-based.
> >
> > I don't know if a jvm is available for openmoko, and I think that
> > maybe java apps for mobile phone require specific library.
> > can anyone tell me a bit about all this ?
> Looks a bit ugly to me.
> I've thought about this type of application a little bit because I'd
> love to write one and IMO this type of program doesn't need a GUI.
> The program should, IMO, just run as a daemon, loading the gatso
> locations at startup, and checking continuously to see if any are
> nearby. There's no need to see the location of the gatso, it should
> merely emit audio upon approach to the danger zone. The audio can
> repeat as the unit approaches the gatso, getting louder with
> proximity. This somewhat accommodates whether you're driving straight
> at the danger zone, or whether it appears likely to pass nearby -
> without streetdata it's impossible to know whether the road you're on
> continues straight or curves, so one can't know for sure whether the
> camera will be passed or avoided, but if the alert sound increases
> volume based on rate-of-distance-change (congruity?) it'll be pretty
> intuitive to the driver, I think (diagram here if I had the time). I
> don't think it's at all necessary to incorporate roadmap data - I
> think the system can provide perfect warning without it, based on
> direction and speed-of-approach.

that's a damn good idea!

> I don't really see any benefit of a visual display and it gets in the
> way of using any other GPS application (such as Google maps, which is
> sure never to carry camera-location data); I'm cynical over amazegps
> - why is it free if it's any good? Isn't it going to pop up
> advertising all over my phone?
> Last time I looked into this - perhaps two years ago - I'm sure there
> was a free Gatso camera location database available, for the UK, at
> least. However all I can find now is and
>, which both take user-submitted data and then
> charge a subscription back for it. At least the
> one does look like a pretty good source of data, regularly updated,
> covering Europe & used by off-duty coppers themselves, but it's not
> free in any sense of the term. Looking on at a road I
> travelled down this evening, I'm immediately pretty sure I can spot
> errors - regular road surveillance cameras marked as speed-traps.
> The download link at <
> safety/GATSO_UK.html> has CSV files with 4200 locations (80% UK
> coverage?), but it's not clear if these are up-to-date, as it seems
> to be implied that they come from However the same site
> has lists of accident blackspots which may benefit those concerned
> about road safety who feel themselves immune to the risk of
> prosecution. <
> Accident_Black_Spots-UK.html>

donwloading the file to offline access is good only if you want to know
about fixed speed cam.
what I want is to know about mobile speed cam (eg: policemen check speed for
only two hours at some spot).
and these cam can't be register in POI files;

> The FoxyTag collaborative thing sounds productive, so an alternative
> FoxyTag client might be appealing. It looks like a genuine not-for-
> profit project, but it's not obvious that one can use it offline -
> ideally one would download a complete data-file and upload one's
> corrections later. I don't really want to have to take my hands off
> the wheel to mark my changes to a nearby camera - I'd much rather
> click on a map on a webpage later to register my votes, and if
> marking a new camera I'd rather stop my car & park to ensure I get as
> accurate a fix as possible

again, register votes on a webpage later can't be use for mobile speed cam.

> (but "Tags posted by FoxyTag are
> directional, so, tags posted for users driving in the opposite
> direction won't be signalized to you" - what happens if I'm
> stationary?).

you can't register a POI when you're under X km/h (X=I can't remember)

> Let's say I know that a local camera is only used for video
> surveillance of road traffic (sadly these too are common in the UK) -
> it is only for awareness of traffic jams (I read that
> may site such cameras) and does not register
> speed. But nevertheless many users who know nothing about the
> different types of cameras keep registering the camera location on
> the collaborative system. On a system more like OpenStreetMap the
> wiki features allow me to post "don't mark this as a gatso, it
> isn't", upload a photo of the camera in question and, in the event of
> dispute, a moderator can block or ban users who get involved in "edit
> wars". The contentiousness of gatso-warning alarms suggests that it
> is unlikely to be incorporated into OpenStreetMap, however - see
> <
> Speed_trap>. Personally, I think this is well and good - the issue
> appears to evoke strong views without much room for consensus (the
> split of opinion seems to be 50/50) and it's less divisive to just
> have a dedicated site for those who want speed-camera data.

I don't think foxytag has something like this

> Substantially, FoxyTag is written in Java so it can run on a variety
> of closed mobile phone platforms - on OpenMoko we can do far better,
> I think. The phone software is not difficult to write, and alone
> would not be deemed sufficiently complex to justify it as a final-
> year undergraduate project.
> The location data is a different matter and, with 5,000 cameras in
> the UK alone, it's not trivial. There are likely users with many more
> local cameras who could contribute more, but I could probably only
> think of 5 cameras to contribute to a database; some people will wish
> to make use of the system without any location contributions, so I'd
> guess 1000 users is a reasonable estimate  to build up a usable
> database, for the UK alone!
> If anyone knows of other sources of speed-camera location data then
> please post them. It's likely that someone else will have something
> like this working on OpenMoko before I get my ass in gear enough to
> do anything about it. That's why I post my thoughts any time I see
> something about GPS - hopefully I may influence the motivated author.
> Foxytag do give an email address on their participate page, if "you
> want to do a new client that is compatible with FoxyTag", so should
> one get a proof-of-concept working on OpenMoko they're surely worth
> contacting.
> Stroller.
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> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at

A lot of limitation are due to the foxytag apps --- register only when you
are driving, and (almost) just when you're in front of the POI.
I agree that an openmoko client could be >really< interessting. moreover
this will resolve the external/internal gps problem.

Il y a 10 types de personnes, ceux qui savent, et ceux qui ne savent pas...
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