QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) raster at openmoko.org
Fri Jun 6 17:49:22 CEST 2008

On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 10:34:30 +0200 "Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller" <hns at computer.org>

> Am 06.06.2008 um 09:45 schrieb Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman):

> Yes, slowness is the most critical complaint. But how should I  
> convince anyone
> to buy an OM if I also have a QVGA device which feels fast (based on  
> OMAP 730
> and some Qt 2.x)?

this is my dilemma. win with dpi and sharpness, but then lose in
smoothness/speed. i lean a bit to- smoothness myself, but i want to hear the
"peanut gallery" so to speak :) (please don't take offence! i'm seriously about
listening that's why i ask!)

> > don't need them. just go to tokyo and look what's there on sale now.  
> > what's
> > there will be what the rest of the world gets to doing 2 years later.
> Not necessarily. The iPhone wasn't there 3 years ago. And i-mode never  
> became
> popular. But I agree that you can see some technology there already  
> built into
> devices.

hmm. i lived in japan for 4 years. my experience is that japan introduces into
their phones what the rest of the world does 2 years later. years ago
multi-megapixel phones were out. 5 years ago the default was 2mpixel and qvga.
the ipone really is not amazing in terms of tech specs. it's fairly far behind.

> > 834x480 at 3.2" is now the top of the line display. but again - you  
> > need/want the
> > graphics back end to fill that many pixels smoothly. right now we  
> > are pushing
> > that at best. :)
> How is the iPhone doing it? It has Half-VGA resolution and "feels"  
> very smooth.

it has a hardware-accelerated 3d chipset with full opengl drivers. and a very
good chipset at that. that is why. as for half-vga. that's still HALF the
pixels the freerunner/neo1973 have. *IF* we shipped the same screen - we'd have
better performance. i find it interesting how so many peole rave about how
great the iphone screen is - but its tech specs are not so hot. it's dpi is
pretty bad compared to the standard these days. but that sure as hell has not
stopped it selling. :) this is why i ask - actual products and reality seem to
show that dpi is not a major factor. at least as best i can tell.

> > but even so - in the ultra-high-tech of japan's mobile phone telco's  
> > qvga is
> > still VERY COMMON. if we want to play the "my specs are better than  
> > your specs"
> > game right now, we will lose. we do not have the sourcing power of the
> Unfortuntely, I have to play that game if I want to sell OM devices...

apple aren't! :)

> > competing vendors. we often can't even get the better components at  
> > all, let
> > alone for a good price. we get what we can get. sure - we have a vga  
> > screen,
> > but really, how good is that if the rest of the device can't  
> > smoothly handle
> > the screen? it isn't just dpi. if all you measure a device on is dpi  
> > and pixel
> There is one strategic aspect to consider: If you keep the same  
> display model and vendor,
> it saves engineering time and you can drive down cost by getting
> more and more volume from a single vendor. This may outweight any  
> better price
> of a different vendor.

might - if you guys buy a few million phones. but in reality - we are such
small volume it is hard enough even buying a screen at all! :) let alone being
able to influence price by volume! :) 

> > count, you are being silly. how it looks matters even more. dpi  
> > helps there,
> > but so does compositing, translucency, smooth animation etc. in fact  
> > these
> > probably have a much greater "buy me" effect. by far more. i'll put  
> > money on
> > that bet actually (this is just speaking from having done eyecandy  
> > for over a
> > decade - on linux, and having seen what it can do to attract  
> > people). to make
> Yes. But this is in some conflict with providing an open platform that  
> others
> can adapt to their user's needs. If it has QVGA it rules out many  
> commercial
> projects where eye-candy and video speed is not that important but high
> information density.

but then we have the reverse too. the question is - which is more important? in
the world of phones the mass market is as it is higher volume, but again - it
depends. i am wondering what projects would not be possible at qvga? seriously?
ones you can actually read and use? this is my point. try and actual 2.8"
screen at qvga for a while - try apps on it. they are still quite usable and
visible. you may need to just deal with coarser fonts etc. but - it's still all
there. :) i'm serious! if you have examples of projects that would ONLY work if
we shipped a 2.8" 285dpi screen but would not work on the same screen at all
at 143dpi... i want to know! i suspect the reason would just be "bad
programming" is why it won't work. and then the next would be "it may display -
but no one will be able to read it..." :) but again - i want to know.

> > things like compositing fast, smooth and nice, you must lower  
> > resolution to do
> > it, or increase graphics power grunt. so given that graphicws grunt  
> > is not
> > changing, cpu is not, the only 2 things that can change are screen  
> > resolution
> > or the "eyecandy" has to remain toned down. so does vga buy you more  
> > sales for
> > the average joe than a sexy bit of eyecandy at qvga? i'm leaning to  
> > qvga +
> > eyecandy myself.
> >
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> >>
> >> Nikolaus
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 05.06.2008 um 14:32 schrieb rakshat hooja:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> quick question - would you prefer a qvga lcd (save a bit of cost)
> >>> since we'e
> >>> going to need to software-drive all graphics - the fewer pixels you
> >>> have to
> >>> fill, the better for speed. i'm really tossing up if the speed of
> >>> qvga is worth
> >>> the loss of resolution. i'm just not sure.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I have a Sharp 903 with qvga, 2.4 inch, Nokia N95 with qvga, 2.4
> >>> inch and the Neo 1973 with VGA, 2.8 inch. By far the best screen for
> >>> reading is the Sharp one. On closer examination you can see pixels
> >>> which you dont on the Neo but the display just feels better, crisper
> >>> and better on the eyes. When you view higher res photos the Neo
> >>> display seems better but not by much. The N95 is also good when you
> >>> look at it on its own and one has no problems reading anything but
> >>> when kept next to the Neo 1973 and Sharp 903 one can tell the
> >>> display is not in the same league. (the Sharp is also visible in the
> >>> sun though I dont think its trans-reflective)
> >>>
> >>> The point I am trying to make is that the quality of LCM being used
> >>> matters as much as qvga or vga. Qvga is sufficient for almost all
> >>> needs on a mobile phone size device and would be great if it
> >>> provides cost and speed improvements. But it has to be a really good
> >>> quality QVGA.
> >>>
> >>> Personally I love the resolution and form factor of the PSP Slim LCM
> >>> and would love to see something similar on GTA0X.
> >>>
> >>> Rakshat
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Openmoko community mailing list
> >>> community at lists.openmoko.org
> >>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <raster at openmoko.org>

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <raster at openmoko.org>

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