QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
raster at openmoko.org
Tue Jun 10 02:52:34 CEST 2008
On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:43:51 +0200 Peter Kraker <peter.kraker at volja.net>
not going to happen - that's 2 product runs. expensive to maintain. gta03 is
vga right now - unless there is a very big push to qvga. it is possible to go,
and not hard at all. it would save costs on hardware, but it won't change at
this stage. but beyond gta03 it's an open book and who knows - we may likely
pull out a lower res screen. it is in fact very likely something will be a
lower res in later products as there is just so much more choice there below
> How painfull would it be, to sell GTA03 with QVGA and GTA03V version
> with VGA screen, if those two are indeed very similar ? I'm certain
> there are enough of us geeks ready to give up some glitter for pixels.
> Peter Kraker
> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) pravi:
> > On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:56:22 +0800 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
> > <raster at openmoko.org> babbled:
> >> On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 18:58:15 +0200 "Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller"
> >> <hns at computer.org> babbled:
> >>>> we could just not ever even ask you guys and you get what you are
> >>>> given. too
> >>>> bad. no input at all. i've opened up the floor for input - but i'm
> >>>> trying to
> >>>> dig specific things out of it - not things that smell of"i just want
> >>>> higher
> >>>> specs". or keeping up with the joneses. i want real use case
> >>>> scenarios that
> >>>> make real sense. :)
> >>> This discussion starts to become quite boring. Isn't a single
> >>> potential customer who says
> >>> "I want it and I am willing to pay for it" enough? There have been
> >>> several here on this list,
> >>> if I remember correctly who expressed exactly that.
> >> no. it is absolutely not enough. why? i am asked by product management to
> >> do things that are just not possible in vga (to do sanely/fast). they come
> >> first. you users come second. in the end if product management want X they
> >> get X. and if for X to happen we go QVGA, then so be it. you guys lose. i
> >> need a very very very strong argument against going to qvga - and that
> >> means product management need to drop a feature.
> > note - i am talking hypothetically. i don't want to discuss vga as a product
> > management feature - not if you like it or not, or it looks pretty. i am
> > looking for hard cold technical facts. what does it stop being possible
> > i know:
> > 1. u may need to scroll more
> > 2. viewing of images/data that just have more pixel content will need to be
> > zoomed out and have less display fidelity
> > 3. some things requiring text displays like 80x24 terminals will be not
> > readable at all at font sizes able to fit on the display (they will jut blur
> > away all character details).
> > with almost everything i can think of you can get by qvga by:
> > 1. scaling data
> > 2. changing font sizes
> > 3. re-arranging ui elements etc.
> > no matter what you need to do this even for vga - if coming fro xga land or
> > better. it's just a more extreme case.
> > no mater what at vga - u still need to zoom most web pages. even at 800x480
> > you still need to. i have a n800. i know how often i have to scroll
> > horizontally even with 800pixels to play with. i know what it ends up
> > looking like. so qvga is just a more extreme level of zooming or scrolling
> > needed.
> > an 80x24 terminal is possible to make it readable @ qvga - if we allow
> > scrolling. (and possible in landscape with an ultra-tiny 4-pixel wide font -
> > possible (3 pixels for text, 1 for space). not very nice though.
> > at some point someone will have to make a call on resolutions. maybe we
> > make a much smaller phone with a smaller screen and thus you will need to
> > have fewer pixels anyway? who knows. but if there are uses that cannot be
> > somehow crammed into qvga, i would like to know.
> > right now freerunner is vga - and nothing will change.
> > gta03 is also vga - it is theoretically possible to change without much
> > impact, but chances of a change are very slim, unless qvga is a "that's
> > fine for everyone" ANd product management want to push it. right now they
> > don't push one way or another.
> > as for future phones - who knows. but knowing what you guys do, want to do,
> > and need is important. so we need to think of more virtual framebuffer
> > technology? (eg advertise a higher res but scale down with a compositor?).
> > is high-res an absolute must for functionality for your uses, or just a
> > "nice to have" to show off with?
> >>> BTW: a use case doesn't say anything about required quality. It
> >>> describes a sequence of interactions
> >>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_case). Sorry, but I can't disclaim
> >>> my academic history :)
> >> i asked for use case because i am not just talking quality. i am talking a
> >> case where vga makes something possible at all or not. where something just
> >> wouldn't be usable or possible without vga. that is what i asked. i want a
> >> use case for vga. not just a "it looks a bit nicer".
> >>> Nikolaus
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Openmoko community mailing list
> >>> community at lists.openmoko.org
> >>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >> --
> >> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <raster at openmoko.org>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Openmoko community mailing list
> >> community at lists.openmoko.org
> >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <raster at openmoko.org>
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