QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

[Dave O'Connor]

I said this in the channel but you weren't there.

We should be going forward with specs, not backward. By the time the
next revisions come there'll be a whole new generation of hardware so
the freerunner will then be lagging even more. Someone mentioned getting
a faster cpu and my 2c are that I think that that's a much better
option. But it sounds like you've already made the decision.



On Tue, 2008-06-10 at 08:52 +0800, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:43:51 +0200 Peter Kraker <peter.kraker at volja.net>
> babbled:
> 
> not going to happen - that's 2 product runs. expensive to maintain. gta03 is
> vga right now - unless there is a very big push to qvga. it is possible to go,
> and not hard at all. it would save costs on hardware, but it won't change at
> this stage. but beyond gta03 it's an open book and who knows - we may likely
> pull out a lower res screen. it is in fact very likely something will be a
> lower res in later products as there is just so much more choice there below
> vga.
> 
> > How painfull would it be, to sell GTA03 with QVGA and GTA03V version 
> > with VGA screen, if those two are indeed very similar ? I'm certain 
> > there are enough of us geeks ready to give up some glitter for pixels.
> > 
> > Regards
> > Peter Kraker
> > 
> > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) pravi:
> > > On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:56:22 +0800 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
> > > <raster at openmoko.org> babbled:
> > >
> > >   
> > >> On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 18:58:15 +0200 "Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller"
> > >> <hns at computer.org> babbled:
> > >>
> > >>     
> > >>>> we could just not ever even ask you guys and you get what you are  
> > >>>> given. too
> > >>>> bad. no input at all. i've opened up the floor for input - but i'm  
> > >>>> trying to
> > >>>> dig specific things out of it - not things that smell of"i just want  
> > >>>> higher
> > >>>> specs". or keeping up with the joneses. i want real use case  
> > >>>> scenarios that
> > >>>> make real sense. :)
> > >>>>         
> > >>> This discussion starts to become quite boring. Isn't a single  
> > >>> potential customer who says
> > >>> "I want it and I am willing to pay for it" enough? There have been  
> > >>> several here on this list,
> > >>> if I remember correctly who expressed exactly that.
> > >>>       
> > >> no. it is absolutely not enough. why? i am asked by product management to
> > >> do things that are just not possible in vga (to do sanely/fast). they come
> > >> first. you users come second. in the end if product management want X they
> > >> get X. and if for X to happen we go QVGA, then so be it. you guys lose. i
> > >> need a very very very strong argument against going to qvga - and that
> > >> means product management need to drop a feature.
> > >>     
> > >
> > > note - i am talking hypothetically. i don't want to discuss vga as a product
> > > management feature - not if you like it or not, or it looks pretty. i am
> > > looking for hard cold technical facts. what does it stop being possible
> > >
> > > i know:
> > >
> > > 1. u may need to scroll more
> > > 2. viewing of images/data that just have more pixel content will need to be
> > > zoomed out and have less display fidelity
> > > 3. some things requiring text displays like 80x24 terminals will be not
> > > readable at all at font sizes able to fit on the display (they will jut blur
> > > away all character details).
> > >
> > > with almost everything i can think of you can get by qvga by:
> > >
> > > 1. scaling data
> > > 2. changing font sizes
> > > 3. re-arranging ui elements etc.
> > >
> > > no matter what you need to do this even for vga - if coming fro xga land or
> > > better. it's just a more extreme case.
> > >
> > > no mater what at vga - u still need to zoom most web pages. even at 800x480
> > > you still need to. i have a n800. i know how often i have to scroll
> > > horizontally even with 800pixels to play with. i know what it ends up
> > > looking like. so qvga is just a more extreme level of zooming or scrolling
> > > needed.
> > >
> > > an 80x24 terminal is possible to make it readable @ qvga - if we allow
> > > scrolling. (and possible in landscape with an ultra-tiny 4-pixel wide font -
> > > possible (3 pixels for text, 1 for space). not very nice though.
> > >
> > > at some point someone will have to make a call on resolutions. maybe we
> > > make a much smaller phone with a smaller screen and thus you will need to
> > > have fewer pixels anyway? who knows. but if there are uses that cannot be
> > > somehow crammed into qvga, i would like to know.
> > >
> > > right now freerunner is vga - and nothing will change.
> > > gta03 is also vga - it is theoretically possible to change without much
> > > impact, but chances of a change are very slim, unless qvga is a "that's
> > > fine for everyone" ANd product management want to push it. right now they
> > > don't push one way or another.
> > > as for future phones - who knows. but knowing what you guys do, want to do,
> > > and need is important. so we need to think of more virtual framebuffer
> > > technology? (eg advertise a higher res but scale down with a compositor?).
> > > is high-res an absolute must for functionality for your uses, or just a
> > > "nice to have" to show off with?
> > >
> > >   
> > >>> BTW: a use case doesn't say anything about required quality. It  
> > >>> describes a sequence of interactions
> > >>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_case). Sorry, but I can't disclaim  
> > >>> my academic history :)
> > >>>       
> > >> i asked for use case because i am not just talking quality. i am talking a
> > >> case where vga makes something possible at all or not. where something just
> > >> wouldn't be usable or possible without vga. that is what i asked. i want a
> > >> use case for vga. not just a "it looks a bit nicer".
> > >>
> > >>     
> > >>> Nikolaus
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Openmoko community mailing list
> > >>> community at lists.openmoko.org
> > >>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > >>>       
> > >> -- 
> > >> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <raster at openmoko.org>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Openmoko community mailing list
> > >> community at lists.openmoko.org
> > >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > >>     
> > >
> > >
> > >   
> > 
> > 
> 
>