Slashdot post but no web store?
kevin at foreverdean.info
Thu Jun 26 02:50:24 CEST 2008
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Yorick Moko <yorickmoko at gmail.com> wrote:
> It states in the wiki (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner)
> The Neo FreeRunner is a GNU/Linux based touch screen smart phone aimed at
> general consumer use as well as GNU/Linux desktop users and GNU/Linux
> software developers.
The Freerunner is indeed the device aimed at both consumers and devs.
I'm not saying it is not. What I am saying is that this release, the
one that will happen within a matter of weeks, is intended for
developers. There was a problem in "the beginning" about how the media
reported (and I'll say that Openmoko not correcting this was a problem
too) that the 1973 hardware would be developer only but reported that
the Freerunner, once released, would be a mass market device and THIS
IS NOT TRUE. The Freerunner + software WILL be released as a mass
market device at some point but there was no intention, statement or
plan to release a FUNCTIONAL Freerunner the moment there was a
The marketing plan (as the wiki reflects) is that "The Freerunner will
be a device marketed to the general public". What the author, and MANY
people assumed is "Since this device is intended for the mass market,
it will be fully functional if I can buy it".
> I agree it is not yet ready for "the masses", but I do expect the hardware
> to be capable and sufficient once the software has been taken care of. The
> neo1973 hardware was for developers. The FreeRunner is for developers AND
I agree as well. As an owner of both devices, I'm pretty darn sure
it's a good deal. :) The problem, as I noted in most of those cases,
is missing hardware - the author assumed he should be able to "do
everything" and he cant. What goes on sale soon is the FreeRunner
hardware not, "A Freerunner running software that gives it
I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here. :) I love Openmoko and
the project's directives. I like that there's a company building Free
Software powered phones and I'm willing to pay to support the
continuation of that. :) However, I think that by "hyping" Openmoko
when it's not ready will lead a LOT of people to be disappointed, as
that author was. This is obviously because of false assumptions, but
valid or not, that author's opinion was read by some people which may
make them question a future purpose. I just want to make sure that
people understand what is happening. Freerunner is a hardware device
and it goes on sale soon. Openmoko is a software stack for embedded
devices. Freerunner is ready, Openmoko is not. People who don't get
that shouldn't be mislead into thinking somethign else is the case -
moderating that guys comments would have been (in my eyes) doing that
since what he said isn't actually inaccurate, just based on
> I expect that in due time the gsm (call, sms, mms), gps, wifi and Bluetooth
> will be fully functional and I want a smooth UI on a phone with a medium
> battery lifetime. I do realise that it will take some time and I will be
> patient. But if that is never going to happen, then Openmoko should have
> informed his intended users better.
This will happen. There is no hardware reason why it can't happen. All
of the shortcomings the guy mentioned are, as far as we know, a
problem that the software isn't ready. The headphones silencing the
speakers thing, I think, is because there's no ALSA setting for
headset. The lack of bluetooth audio is because the Bluetooth Audio
profile hasn't been ported yet.
That's kind of my point though - you and I understand that the
HARDWARE is on sale now, but the author didn't. What he said is true -
those things do not work right now. His premise, not the hardware, was
> I have not yet read a anything that said these goals could not be reached
> (with a sufficient amount of time and effort).
> Have a little faith ;-)
Faith has little to do with it. There's a passionate community and
I'll put a lot of stock into that.
> On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:44 AM, Kevin Dean <kevin at foreverdean.info> wrote:
>> In all fairness, I don't think he's a troll, it just appears that the
>> device doesn't meet his needs. Let me put something out there that is
>> VERY VERY clearly stated. The Freerunner is not ready for a consumer
>> grade device today. The hardware that will be available soon is
>> intended for DEVELOPERS to build their applications on the Openmoko
>> platform so that when the device is launched to end-users, there will
>> be a wide selection of usable applications. If you buy a freerunner
>> before the mass market launch, do not feel upset that a feature isn't
>> there because this stage is intended for people writing those
>> That said, advanced Linux users, or people who just like poking around
>> at cool things can have a ton of fun with these devices at this early
>> stage too. :)
>> Point by point:
>> old TI GSM modem, recamping once a minute(!) to the mobile station,
>> eating battery like crazy and very unreliable. A TI engineer asked me
>> if they (openmoko) got the chips for free, as they are so ancient - no
>> EDGE, GPRS w/ 2KB/s. Openmoko is likely the last buyer.
>> This may actually be truish. From what I understand, 3G GSM modules
>> are essentially 100% "closed", non-free or restrictive. Take your
>> pick. Openmoko's goals are openness and the current landscape doesn't
>> allow that to be met with 3G. This is why there's a potentially
>> "ancient" system. The Model T got people around. :) This ancient GSM
>> module makes calls and sends SMS messages just fine.
>> The battery thing is being dealt with, it's a matter of the software.
>> audio quailty on the headphone is lousy due to a hardware bug - as mp3
>> player useless
>> A bug I reported (http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1377) means it
>> fails at being a personal audio player for now. The headset that came
>> in the box with the 1973 and the Freerunner aren't particularly good,
>> but that's ENTIRELY a subjective thing. I connect my 1973 to my car's
>> AUX input and it sounds just fine. The issue he has is with the
>> headset, not the jack. Either way, his assessment is true - headset
>> quality and audio issues make using the Freerunner as a DAP impossible
>> headphone only mono. i.e. only one side works
>> This is wrong, mmontour corrected it it on Slashdot.
>> headphone unusable for making phone calls due to EM-interferences
>> Not sure if it's EM interference, but all the software I've used
>> simply couldn't route the GSM stuff to the headset. I'm assuming it's
>> a software issue but this is true in my experience, the included
>> headset can't be used to make calls.
>> no bluetooth headset support
>> Again, a software issue. There is a bluetooth profit to play audio
>> through headsets, I'm assuming that can work on Openmoko hardware but
>> hasn't been adapted to do that yet.
>> no bluetooth keyboard support (dropped since last version)
>> Software issue. ScaredyCat's images do it quite easily. But the ASU
>> (latest version) and the FSO do not.
>> graphics sluggish and even slower than Neo 1973 despite 2D accel chip
>> GPS has >10 minutes TTFF - yes, in 2008 where every cheapo GPS gets a
>> fix in 45secs
>> I've not gotten a fix EVER on the GPS - it's a software issue, I
>> assume because I've gotten the GPS hardware to respond while poking at
>> developer community alienated by Lauer & Co. GNOME knew why they
>> kicked Rasterman out.
>> Actually, this one might be trolling. I don't know about social
>> politics, and frankly don't care. True or not, it's not relevant to
>> the hardware sucking or being amazing.
>> so called ASU software is pre-alpha and reinventing the wheel once again
>> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Andy Selby <andyfrommk at googlemail.com>
>>>> That said, Openmoko is getting a lot of attention right now because of
>>>> that article, so it's probably a very good thing to have some form of
>>>> anticipation building message or teaser product there to keep the hype
>>> Not all of it good, If anyone has mod points on slashdot can they mod
>>> this guy down? http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=595147&cid=23939209
>>> He's obviously registered that account just now to troll on the project.
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