From roguemoko at roguewrt.org  Wed Apr  1 01:44:43 2009
From: roguemoko at roguewrt.org (roguemoko at roguewrt.org)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:44:43 +1100
Subject: how do i turn the phone off?
In-Reply-To: <8e354bdf0903302144s62d257e6jf21c4312cb483c69@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4055b60f0903271309p7fea18d0q9fba416cf41deaea@mail.gmail.com>	<200903272122.00173.tanuva@gmail.com>	<ffce06340903271337w2b82a3fax6a4fe866c642059d@mail.gmail.com>	<8e354bdf0903272036l5701b6a4se2f93b51a676e6da@mail.gmail.com>	<ffce06340903272041r6cd3ac1bgb21a67017008f97f@mail.gmail.com>	<8e354bdf0903272047x393438b4le521a6a05c322768@mail.gmail.com>	<49D17320.6000809@roguewrt.org>
	<8e354bdf0903302144s62d257e6jf21c4312cb483c69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D2AAEB.2080301@roguewrt.org>

clare johnstone wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 1:34 AM,  <roguemoko at roguewrt.org> wrote:
>> clare johnstone wrote:
> ...
>>> I do however, especially with the GTA01, always remove the battery at
>>> this stage,
>>> and only replace it when I want to restart.
>> Just hold in the aux button when you insert the battery.
>>
>> Sarton
> 
> Oh! what makes you say that? and with such confidence too :)

The follow up issue appears to be that it restarts when the battery is 
removed and replaced. Holding the aux button accesses the NOR u-boot 
allowing you to shutdown or boot, whichever you prefer.

As for the gta01, this may not be the case ...

Confident? well I've done it more than 100 times ;) ... I'm just one of 
the lucky ones that still has their case clips intact, otherwise 'remove 
cover' may not necessarily be a prerequisite :)

Sarton



From leonardo at lilik.it  Wed Apr  1 01:44:50 2009
From: leonardo at lilik.it (leonardo at lilik.it)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 01:44:50 +0200
Subject: qt-extended-improved unpredictive keyboard
Message-ID: <49D2AAF2.4070109@lilik.it>

hi all,

As I did for Qtopia, I?ve recompiled my un-predictive keyboard for
qt-extended-improved. It is a patched version of the matchbox keyboard
that comes with Qt made usable without a stylus.I?ve changed the layout
from last time I touched it :

    * I found out how to suppress the hints bar, that never had any real
use for me
    * I used wider picks to help people that do not play guitar and have
regular size nails :-)
    * In the sourcecode you can find an attempt to use screen rotation
(disabled now) to automatically switch to wide mode when sending sms. I
didn?t have time to make it work.

then you have to chose at each boot, the default one can not be changed.

if you want screenshots explain me how to have them with qtextended :-)

code&bin here:
http://leonardo.lilik.it/wordpress/2009/04/01/qt-extended-un-predictive-keyboard/

I put the whole keyboard source dir in the zip but i think I have only
touched keyboardframe.cpp. I will send a patch for the git soon.

ciao,
leonardo.

-- 
http://leonardo.lilik.it
Key fingerprint = 2C20 A587 05AC 42E5 1292  D0D4 3EED CFB5 52FD AD1E



From raster at rasterman.com  Wed Apr  1 02:26:28 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:26:28 +1100
Subject: Google Summer of Code
In-Reply-To: <b84dee3a0903310659g3f067d5fyc41dedf092662cb6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ffce06340903241721i5712975cwc1fbda30ed81fba5@mail.gmail.com>
	<26fea52c0903251422l6205cc6eob4167dccd7edc6c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090331133723.66db4d5a@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<4126b3450903310642i4e3f6ee6jd1b274620361841d@mail.gmail.com>
	<b84dee3a0903310659g3f067d5fyc41dedf092662cb6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090401112628.1a2b851c.raster@rasterman.com>

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:59:48 +0200 Rafael Campos <methril at gmail.com> said:
 
> I was thinking the same

who knows... enlightenment is back in again... if someone wants to work on
illume/e/elementary/whatever or related stuff that is relevant to phones... the
doors are open :)

-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From taerwin at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 03:40:04 2009
From: taerwin at gmail.com (Tim Erwin)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:40:04 +1100
Subject: qt-extended-improved unpredictive keyboard
In-Reply-To: <49D2AAF2.4070109@lilik.it>
References: <49D2AAF2.4070109@lilik.it>
Message-ID: <c7d2b5330903311840j42ab033fiea804dcceb2b6ffb@mail.gmail.com>

> ? ?* I found out how to suppress the hints bar, that never had any real
> use for me

Doesn't quiet work for me,  the hints bar overlays the key stroke for
the top row of keys. Try creating a new sms message and begin a word
with one of these letters. Otherwise looks good!

Regards,

Tim



From cvwillegen at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 07:45:04 2009
From: cvwillegen at gmail.com (Christ van Willegen)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 07:45:04 +0200
Subject: Openmoko for blind users?
In-Reply-To: <4126b3450903310954u38b27439uac0039bffbce3d31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4b7a31a0903310645g5435fc53v276415790bcd8045@mail.gmail.com>
	<1238510961.7128.73.camel@alap>
	<E496871456016F4CA8959BE4105D2A898C2FA7@troe2k1.cs.myharris.net>
	<4126b3450903310954u38b27439uac0039bffbce3d31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b77f73010903312245r32571e57g353ad308995529ba@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Sam Kuper <sam.kuper at uclmail.net> wrote:
> 2009/3/31 Crane, Matthew <mcrane03 at harris.com>
>>
>> Seems to me OM would be a good platform to quickly implement something
>> like this on a working phone.
>>
>> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20127015.700-vibrating-touch-scree
>> n-puts-braille-at-the-fingertips.html
>
> That's a really nice start to making touchscreen devices friendlier for
> blind users. It'd be great for this to be ported to OpenMoko!

One of the more obvious problems, and it shows in the article, is that
Braille is 2 dimensional, and the pulses are only one-dimensional.

Perhaps having an interface with morse code could help here.

Ofcourse, you can do both the '1-dimensional braille' and morse and
let the user select. But 1 character in 1.25 seconds sounds like a
long time! Morse is (can be) much quicker than that.

Christ van Willegen
-- 
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0



From filip at linux4.be  Wed Apr  1 08:48:35 2009
From: filip at linux4.be (Filip Onkelinx)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:48:35 +0200
Subject: [QT Extended Improved]  patch:
	0001-using-uevent-to-get-kernel-notifications-for-usb-cable-changed.txt
Message-ID: <op.uro3u9x75z3zlq@pc-filonk.visysglobal.local>

Hi,

attached is a patch to use uevent to get kernel notifications for  
'usb-cable-changed' in QtExtended on recent kernels (>=2.6.28).
On 'older' kernels (<2.6.28), this information was comming in trough  
/dev/input/event4 but this is no longer working (there is a ticket for  
this at https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2254 ).
With this patch my FR switches correctly from battery power savings scheme  
to online pwoer scheme, and usb networking goes up/down as expected.
Same mechanism could be used to re-implement an event based neobattery.

This patch should not break 2.6.24 compatibility.

Cheers,

Filip.
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From ezuall at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 09:16:59 2009
From: ezuall at gmail.com (ezuall)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 00:16:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Learning with flashcards - granule
In-Reply-To: <49D251D0.9060004@users.sourceforge.net>
References: <49D251D0.9060004@users.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <1238570219084-2567548.post@n2.nabble.com>


Hi there,

Last year I used PyFlash, but I'm not sure which distribution I was running at that time.  I know it was easy to get it running, only a few chages were necesarry.  I was using it for learning language at the time, so I added a line for pronunciation as well, which worked better in landscape mode for learning phrases.

Cheers
ezuall
-- 
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Learning-with-flashcards---granule-tp2564322p2567548.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




From afridi.waqar at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 09:21:03 2009
From: afridi.waqar at gmail.com (waqar afridi)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:21:03 +0500
Subject: Need help with Log "Message"
Message-ID: <78aaeffc0904010021p5d89a26bg3bbaec0b92b84444@mail.gmail.com>

hi i m new comer to the openmoko community and m highly interested in it. i
have flashed a new kernel in my openmoko but can not get *"messages"* file
in my /var/log/. can any one help.
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From pander at users.sourceforge.net  Wed Apr  1 09:25:23 2009
From: pander at users.sourceforge.net (Pander)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 09:25:23 +0200
Subject: Learning with flashcards - granule
In-Reply-To: <1238570219084-2567548.post@n2.nabble.com>
References: <49D251D0.9060004@users.sourceforge.net>
	<1238570219084-2567548.post@n2.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <49D316E3.7050301@users.sourceforge.net>

Hi Ezuall,

Do you still have the code or the changes you applied? Could you send
them to me?

By the way, which language was it? If it is Japanese, I'm also
interested in the data files.

Thanks,

Pander

ezuall wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> Last year I used PyFlash, but I'm not sure which distribution I was running at that time.  I know it was easy to get it running, only a few chages were necesarry.  I was using it for learning language at the time, so I added a line for pronunciation as well, which worked better in landscape mode for learning phrases.
> 
> Cheers
> ezuall




From ezuall at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 09:30:25 2009
From: ezuall at gmail.com (ezuall)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 00:30:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Learning with flashcards - granule
In-Reply-To: <49D316E3.7050301@users.sourceforge.net>
References: <49D251D0.9060004@users.sourceforge.net>
	<1238570219084-2567548.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<49D316E3.7050301@users.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <1238571025955-2567609.post@n2.nabble.com>


Pander,

I'll have to have a dig for the code, it won't be pretty, as I stitched it
together for a quick overview of Italian before a trip last year.  I don't
know if the Japanese character set is supported.

I'll send it through as soon as I find it, may be 24 hours though
ezuall

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Pander-2 (via Nabble) <
ml-user+35848-1247512972 at n2.nabble.com<ml-user%2B35848-1247512972 at n2.nabble.com>
> wrote:

> Hi Ezuall,
>
> Do you still have the code or the changes you applied? Could you send
> them to me?
>
> By the way, which language was it? If it is Japanese, I'm also
> interested in the data files.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pander
>
> ezuall wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > Last year I used PyFlash, but I'm not sure which distribution I was
> running at that time.  I know it was easy to get it running, only a few
> chages were necesarry.  I was using it for learning language at the time, so
> I added a line for pronunciation as well, which worked better in landscape
> mode for learning phrases.
> >
> > Cheers
> > ezuall
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at ...<http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=2567597&i=0>
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
> ------------------------------
>  This email is a reply to your post @
> http://n2.nabble.com/Learning-with-flashcards---granule-tp2564322p2567597.html
> You can reply by email or by visting the link above.
>
>

-- 
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Learning-with-flashcards---granule-tp2564322p2567609.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




From pander at users.sourceforge.net  Wed Apr  1 09:55:50 2009
From: pander at users.sourceforge.net (Pander)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 09:55:50 +0200
Subject: Learning with flashcards - granule
In-Reply-To: <1238571025955-2567609.post@n2.nabble.com>
References: <49D251D0.9060004@users.sourceforge.net>	<1238570219084-2567548.post@n2.nabble.com>	<49D316E3.7050301@users.sourceforge.net>
	<1238571025955-2567609.post@n2.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <49D31E06.3070400@users.sourceforge.net>

Ezuall,

Thanks, don't worry about the prettiness. I'll fix it up and package it.

Regards and thanks in advance,

Pander

ezuall wrote:
> Pander,
> 
> I'll have to have a dig for the code, it won't be pretty, as I stitched it
> together for a quick overview of Italian before a trip last year.  I don't
> know if the Japanese character set is supported.
> 
> I'll send it through as soon as I find it, may be 24 hours though
> ezuall
> 
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Pander-2 (via Nabble) <
> ml-user+35848-1247512972 at n2.nabble.com<ml-user%2B35848-1247512972 at n2.nabble.com>
>> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Ezuall,
>>
>> Do you still have the code or the changes you applied? Could you send
>> them to me?
>>
>> By the way, which language was it? If it is Japanese, I'm also
>> interested in the data files.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Pander
>>
>> ezuall wrote:
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> Last year I used PyFlash, but I'm not sure which distribution I was
>> running at that time.  I know it was easy to get it running, only a few
>> chages were necesarry.  I was using it for learning language at the time, so
>> I added a line for pronunciation as well, which worked better in landscape
>> mode for learning phrases.
>>> Cheers
>>> ezuall
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at ...<http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=2567597&i=0>
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>  This email is a reply to your post @
>> http://n2.nabble.com/Learning-with-flashcards---granule-tp2564322p2567597.html
>> You can reply by email or by visting the link above.
>>
>>
> 




From daniel at totalueberwachung.de  Wed Apr  1 11:00:20 2009
From: daniel at totalueberwachung.de (Daniel Willmann)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:00:20 +0200
Subject: Google Summer of Code
In-Reply-To: <4126b3450903310642i4e3f6ee6jd1b274620361841d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ffce06340903241721i5712975cwc1fbda30ed81fba5@mail.gmail.com>
	<26fea52c0903251422l6205cc6eob4167dccd7edc6c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090331133723.66db4d5a@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<4126b3450903310642i4e3f6ee6jd1b274620361841d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090401110020.7e46b51b@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:42:47 +0100
Sam Kuper <sam.kuper at uclmail.net> wrote:

> 2009/3/31 Daniel Willmann <daniel at totalueberwachung.de>
> 
> > On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:22:55 +0100
> > Yorick Moko <yorickmoko at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > i think there is none
> > > shr (or fso?) got rejected
> >
> > Both actually. We joined forces with our application and were
> > rejected.
> 
> 
> Out of interest, did the rejection have anything to do with Android
> being a Google product and a competitor to SHR/FSO?

I don't know, the mail didn't say and I don't think it would if it were
the case.
Apart from that I don't think they view us as a competitor. At most I
guess they see us as a redundant effort. Even more of a reason to prove
them wrong. :-)

Regards,
Daniel Willmann
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From daniel at totalueberwachung.de  Wed Apr  1 11:04:26 2009
From: daniel at totalueberwachung.de (Daniel Willmann)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:04:26 +0200
Subject: Google Summer of Code
In-Reply-To: <49D278B8.4010909@gmail.com>
References: <ffce06340903241721i5712975cwc1fbda30ed81fba5@mail.gmail.com>
	<26fea52c0903251422l6205cc6eob4167dccd7edc6c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090331133723.66db4d5a@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<49D278B8.4010909@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090401110426.75ffb5f3@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:10:32 +0100
Arigead <captain.deadly at gmail.com> wrote:

> Daniel Willmann wrote:
> > On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:22:55 +0100
> > Yorick Moko <yorickmoko at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> i think there is none
> >> shr (or fso?) got rejected
> > 
> > Both actually. We joined forces with our application and were
> > rejected. Everybody is still welcome to work on cool projects,
> > though. :-)
> > 
> Are you mentoring ? ;-)

Depends. What do you have in mind? :-)


Regards,
Daniel Willmann
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From anas.lbn at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 11:27:07 2009
From: anas.lbn at gmail.com (Anas Alzouhbi)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:27:07 +0200
Subject: using toolchain
Message-ID: <d4b7a31a0904010227n398013e8vaede9c7660765213@mail.gmail.com>

Hello!
I read the document of toolchain on:http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain
I arrived until this command:
"    *  Extract it directly as root, so use command "su" first (or
prefix the tar command with "sudo" when you are using Debian/Ubuntu):

  cd /
  tar -xjvf ~/sources/openmoko-XYZ-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2
"
I don't understand what I have to write in command exactly, I'm
working on Debian
but I runned this command: sudo tar -xjvf
~/sources/openmoko-XYZ-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2
 but I obtained this error:
tar: /root/sources/openmoko-XYZ-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2 :
la fonction open a ?chou?: Aucun fichier ou r?pertoire de ce type
tar: Erreur non r?cup?rable : arr?t du traitement
tar: Child returned status 2
tar: Des erreurs ont provoqu? l'arr?t du programme



From liedekef at telenet.be  Wed Apr  1 11:45:41 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:45:41 +0200
Subject: qt-extended-improved unpredictive keyboard
In-Reply-To: <49D2AAF2.4070109@lilik.it>
References: <49D2AAF2.4070109@lilik.it>
Message-ID: <60567dcc0904010245s3277faf0u70565ad5cf44c284@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:44 AM, leonardo at lilik.it <leonardo at lilik.it> wrote:

> hi all,
>
> As I did for Qtopia, I?ve recompiled my un-predictive keyboard for
> qt-extended-improved. It is a patched version of the matchbox keyboard
> that comes with Qt made usable without a stylus.I?ve changed the layout
> from last time I touched it :
>
>    * I found out how to suppress the hints bar, that never had any real
> use for me
>    * I used wider picks to help people that do not play guitar and have
> regular size nails :-)
>    * In the sourcecode you can find an attempt to use screen rotation
> (disabled now) to automatically switch to wide mode when sending sms. I
> didn?t have time to make it work.
>
> then you have to chose at each boot, the default one can not be changed.
>
> if you want screenshots explain me how to have them with qtextended :-)
>
> code&bin here:
>
> http://leonardo.lilik.it/wordpress/2009/04/01/qt-extended-un-predictive-keyboard/
>
> I put the whole keyboard source dir in the zip but i think I have only
> touched keyboardframe.cpp. I will send a patch for the git soon.
>
> ciao,
> leonardo.
>

Hi,

I'm very interested in testing this, but the source isn't in the zipfile ...
For the screenshots, maybe you can try
http://qtextended.org/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=18 ?

Franky
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From openmoko at ginguppin.de  Wed Apr  1 11:46:29 2009
From: openmoko at ginguppin.de (arne anka)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:46:29 +0200
Subject: using toolchain
In-Reply-To: <d4b7a31a0904010227n398013e8vaede9c7660765213@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4b7a31a0904010227n398013e8vaede9c7660765213@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.urpb3ryg41evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>

> I don't understand what I have to write in command exactly, I'm
> working on Debian
> but I runned this command: sudo tar -xjvf
> ~/sources/openmoko-XYZ-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2

i don't know how good sudo is supported nowadays in debian, but i prefer  
to _be_ root instead:
su -
and then do it again without sudo.

>  but I obtained this error:
> tar: /root/sources/openmoko-XYZ-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2 :
> la fonction open a ?chou?: Aucun fichier ou r?pertoire de ce type
> tar: Erreur non r?cup?rable : arr?t du traitement
> tar: Child returned status 2
> tar: Des erreurs ont provoqu? l'arr?t du programme

my french is rather rusty, but it might mean that you either don't have  
bzip2 installed or that the archive is corrupt.

i strongly urge you to use the second attempt suggested:

   bunzip2 openmoko-*-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2
   gzip openmoko-*-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar
   fakeroot alien -d openmoko-*-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.gz
   sudo dpkg -i openmoko_*-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain*.deb

thus you have far more control over the files installed and you could  
remove them easily. additionally, the chances to break your system are  
significantly smaller.



From anas.lbn at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 11:48:57 2009
From: anas.lbn at gmail.com (Anas Alzouhbi)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:48:57 +0200
Subject: help for development in 5 minutes
Message-ID: <d4b7a31a0904010248j38cf54d6r279ae50e05908356@mail.gmail.com>

Hello!
I read this document
"http://andreasdalsgaard.blogspot.com/2008/07/openmoko-development-in-5-minutes.html"
in order to build a simple helloworld porgram on my openmoko
I'm going to start with this command:
wget http://smartere.dk/openmoko/openmoko-toolchain_0.20080521-ubuntu6_i386.deb
sudo dpkg -i openmoko-toolchain_0.20080521-ubuntu6_i386.deb
what I have to write instead of ubuntu6, if I'm working on Debian,
and is not necessary to work as root user??



From openmoko at ginguppin.de  Wed Apr  1 12:02:10 2009
From: openmoko at ginguppin.de (arne anka)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 12:02:10 +0200
Subject: help for development in 5 minutes
In-Reply-To: <d4b7a31a0904010248j38cf54d6r279ae50e05908356@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4b7a31a0904010248j38cf54d6r279ae50e05908356@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.urpctwfl41evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>

> wget  
> http://smartere.dk/openmoko/openmoko-toolchain_0.20080521-ubuntu6_i386.deb
> sudo dpkg -i openmoko-toolchain_0.20080521-ubuntu6_i386.deb
> what I have to write instead of ubuntu6, if I'm working on Debian,

nothing different -- the "ubuntu6" comes frome the package (file) name and  
has to be there.
with wget you donwload a file with the name

openmoko-toolchain_0.20080521-ubuntu6_i386.deb

to your current directory.
with dpkg -i you install that very same file -- thus the "ubuntu6" has to  
be there because it is part of the filename.

> and is not necessary to work as root user??

for installing packages you need to be root. either via login or su or  
sudo.

reading your posts i've got the impression you are not very familiar with  
your linux/debian box -- it would probably be more sensible to get  
aquainted with your debian before trying anything more complex.



From boilersoup at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 12:06:20 2009
From: boilersoup at gmail.com (boilersoup boilersoup)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:06:20 +0200
Subject: [ALL] Software based buzz fix!
Message-ID: <c57c8f450904010306r325f2eb4yea95286f49be4847@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

after deep brainstorming
and heavy engineering,

here is the result: http://tiny.cc/WcbIn
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/attachments/20090401/8263b524/attachment.htm 

From anas.lbn at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 12:25:11 2009
From: anas.lbn at gmail.com (Anas Alzouhbi)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:25:11 +0200
Subject: community Digest, Vol 125, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1238580002.11808.community@lists.openmoko.org>
References: <mailman.0.1238580002.11808.community@lists.openmoko.org>
Message-ID: <d4b7a31a0904010325l7bd0a1cax7652cd3e478a81d@mail.gmail.com>

I did this command
y011pc99:/# bunzip2 openmoko-*-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2
but I obtained:
bunzip2: Can't open input file
openmoko-*-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2: No such file or
directory.
what I have to do


On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:00 PM,  <community-request at lists.openmoko.org> wrote:
> Send community mailing list submissions to
> ? ? ? ?community at lists.openmoko.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> ? ? ? ?http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ? ? ? ?community-request at lists.openmoko.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ? ? ? ?community-owner at lists.openmoko.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of community digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> ? 1. Re: Learning with flashcards - granule (Pander)
> ? 2. Re: Google Summer of Code (Daniel Willmann)
> ? 3. Re: Google Summer of Code (Daniel Willmann)
> ? 4. using toolchain (Anas Alzouhbi)
> ? 5. Re: qt-extended-improved unpredictive keyboard
> ? ? ?(Franky Van Liedekerke)
> ? 6. Re: using toolchain (arne anka)
> ? 7. help for development in 5 minutes (Anas Alzouhbi)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From:?Pander <pander at users.sourceforge.net>
> To:?List for Openmoko community discussion <community at lists.openmoko.org>
> Date:?Wed, 01 Apr 2009 09:55:50 +0200
> Subject:?Re: Learning with flashcards - granule
> Ezuall,
>
> Thanks, don't worry about the prettiness. I'll fix it up and package it.
>
> Regards and thanks in advance,
>
> Pander
>
> ezuall wrote:
>> Pander,
>>
>> I'll have to have a dig for the code, it won't be pretty, as I stitched it
>> together for a quick overview of Italian before a trip last year. ?I don't
>> know if the Japanese character set is supported.
>>
>> I'll send it through as soon as I find it, may be 24 hours though
>> ezuall
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Pander-2 (via Nabble) <
>> ml-user+35848-1247512972 at n2.nabble.com<ml-user%2B35848-1247512972 at n2.nabble.com>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ezuall,
>>>
>>> Do you still have the code or the changes you applied? Could you send
>>> them to me?
>>>
>>> By the way, which language was it? If it is Japanese, I'm also
>>> interested in the data files.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Pander
>>>
>>> ezuall wrote:
>>>> Hi there,
>>>>
>>>> Last year I used PyFlash, but I'm not sure which distribution I was
>>> running at that time. ?I know it was easy to get it running, only a few
>>> chages were necesarry. ?I was using it for learning language at the time, so
>>> I added a line for pronunciation as well, which worked better in landscape
>>> mode for learning phrases.
>>>> Cheers
>>>> ezuall
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>> community at ...<http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=2567597&i=0>
>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> ?This email is a reply to your post @
>>> http://n2.nabble.com/Learning-with-flashcards---granule-tp2564322p2567597.html
>>> You can reply by email or by visting the link above.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From:?Daniel Willmann <daniel at totalueberwachung.de>
> To:?community at lists.openmoko.org
> Date:?Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:00:20 +0200
> Subject:?Re: Google Summer of Code
> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:42:47 +0100
> Sam Kuper <sam.kuper at uclmail.net> wrote:
>
>> 2009/3/31 Daniel Willmann <daniel at totalueberwachung.de>
>>
>> > On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:22:55 +0100
>> > Yorick Moko <yorickmoko at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > i think there is none
>> > > shr (or fso?) got rejected
>> >
>> > Both actually. We joined forces with our application and were
>> > rejected.
>>
>>
>> Out of interest, did the rejection have anything to do with Android
>> being a Google product and a competitor to SHR/FSO?
>
> I don't know, the mail didn't say and I don't think it would if it were
> the case.
> Apart from that I don't think they view us as a competitor. At most I
> guess they see us as a redundant effort. Even more of a reason to prove
> them wrong. :-)
>
> Regards,
> Daniel Willmann
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From:?Daniel Willmann <daniel at totalueberwachung.de>
> To:?community at lists.openmoko.org
> Date:?Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:04:26 +0200
> Subject:?Re: Google Summer of Code
> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:10:32 +0100
> Arigead <captain.deadly at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Daniel Willmann wrote:
>> > On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:22:55 +0100
>> > Yorick Moko <yorickmoko at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> i think there is none
>> >> shr (or fso?) got rejected
>> >
>> > Both actually. We joined forces with our application and were
>> > rejected. Everybody is still welcome to work on cool projects,
>> > though. :-)
>> >
>> Are you mentoring ? ;-)
>
> Depends. What do you have in mind? :-)
>
>
> Regards,
> Daniel Willmann
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From:?Anas Alzouhbi <anas.lbn at gmail.com>
> To:?community at lists.openmoko.org
> Date:?Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:27:07 +0200
> Subject:?using toolchain
> Hello!
> I read the document of toolchain on:http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain
> I arrived until this command:
> " ? ?* ?Extract it directly as root, so use command "su" first (or
> prefix the tar command with "sudo" when you are using Debian/Ubuntu):
>
> ?cd /
> ?tar -xjvf ~/sources/openmoko-XYZ-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2
> "
> I don't understand what I have to write in command exactly, I'm
> working on Debian
> but I runned this command: sudo tar -xjvf
> ~/sources/openmoko-XYZ-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2
> ?but I obtained this error:
> tar: /root/sources/openmoko-XYZ-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2 :
> la fonction open a ?chou?: Aucun fichier ou r?pertoire de ce type
> tar: Erreur non r?cup?rable : arr?t du traitement
> tar: Child returned status 2
> tar: Des erreurs ont provoqu? l'arr?t du programme
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From:?Franky Van Liedekerke <liedekef at telenet.be>
> To:?List for Openmoko community discussion <community at lists.openmoko.org>
> Date:?Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:45:41 +0200
> Subject:?Re: qt-extended-improved unpredictive keyboard
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:44 AM, leonardo at lilik.it <leonardo at lilik.it> wrote:
>>
>> hi all,
>>
>> As I did for Qtopia, I?ve recompiled my un-predictive keyboard for
>> qt-extended-improved. It is a patched version of the matchbox keyboard
>> that comes with Qt made usable without a stylus.I?ve changed the layout
>> from last time I touched it :
>>
>> ? ?* I found out how to suppress the hints bar, that never had any real
>> use for me
>> ? ?* I used wider picks to help people that do not play guitar and have
>> regular size nails :-)
>> ? ?* In the sourcecode you can find an attempt to use screen rotation
>> (disabled now) to automatically switch to wide mode when sending sms. I
>> didn?t have time to make it work.
>>
>> then you have to chose at each boot, the default one can not be changed.
>>
>> if you want screenshots explain me how to have them with qtextended :-)
>>
>> code&bin here:
>> http://leonardo.lilik.it/wordpress/2009/04/01/qt-extended-un-predictive-keyboard/
>>
>> I put the whole keyboard source dir in the zip but i think I have only
>> touched keyboardframe.cpp. I will send a patch for the git soon.
>>
>> ciao,
>> leonardo.
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm very interested in testing this, but the source isn't in the zipfile ...
> For the screenshots, maybe you can try http://qtextended.org/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=18 ?
>
> Franky
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From:?"arne anka" <openmoko at ginguppin.de>
> To:?"List for Openmoko community discussion" <community at lists.openmoko.org>
> Date:?Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:46:29 +0200
> Subject:?Re: using toolchain
>>
>> I don't understand what I have to write in command exactly, I'm
>> working on Debian
>> but I runned this command: sudo tar -xjvf
>> ~/sources/openmoko-XYZ-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2
>
> i don't know how good sudo is supported nowadays in debian, but i prefer to _be_ root instead:
> su -
> and then do it again without sudo.
>
>> ?but I obtained this error:
>> tar: /root/sources/openmoko-XYZ-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2 :
>> la fonction open a ?chou?: Aucun fichier ou r?pertoire de ce type
>> tar: Erreur non r?cup?rable : arr?t du traitement
>> tar: Child returned status 2
>> tar: Des erreurs ont provoqu? l'arr?t du programme
>
> my french is rather rusty, but it might mean that you either don't have bzip2 installed or that the archive is corrupt.
>
> i strongly urge you to use the second attempt suggested:
>
> ?bunzip2 openmoko-*-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2
> ?gzip openmoko-*-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar
> ?fakeroot alien -d openmoko-*-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.gz
> ?sudo dpkg -i openmoko_*-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain*.deb
>
> thus you have far more control over the files installed and you could remove them easily. additionally, the chances to break your system are significantly smaller.
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From:?Anas Alzouhbi <anas.lbn at gmail.com>
> To:?community at lists.openmoko.org
> Date:?Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:48:57 +0200
> Subject:?help for development in 5 minutes
> Hello!
> I read this document
> "http://andreasdalsgaard.blogspot.com/2008/07/openmoko-development-in-5-minutes.html"
> in order to build a simple helloworld porgram on my openmoko
> I'm going to start with this command:
> wget http://smartere.dk/openmoko/openmoko-toolchain_0.20080521-ubuntu6_i386.deb
> sudo dpkg -i openmoko-toolchain_0.20080521-ubuntu6_i386.deb
> what I have to write instead of ubuntu6, if I'm working on Debian,
> and is not necessary to work as root user??
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>



From david at tuxbrain.com  Wed Apr  1 12:26:37 2009
From: david at tuxbrain.com (David Reyes Samblas Martinez)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:26:37 +0200
Subject: [ALL] Software based buzz fix!
In-Reply-To: <c57c8f450904010306r325f2eb4yea95286f49be4847@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c57c8f450904010306r325f2eb4yea95286f49be4847@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5c6ceea80904010326h61236c98va4793f248fe00b3c@mail.gmail.com>

LOL X-D

2009/4/1 boilersoup boilersoup <boilersoup at gmail.com>:
> Hi All,
>
> after deep brainstorming
> and heavy engineering,
>
> here is the result: http://tiny.cc/WcbIn
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>



-- 
David Reyes Samblas Martinez
http://www.tuxbrain.com
Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!



From openmoko at ginguppin.de  Wed Apr  1 12:33:32 2009
From: openmoko at ginguppin.de (arne anka)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 12:33:32 +0200
Subject: [200X.Y] toolchain. was Re: community Digest, Vol 125, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <d4b7a31a0904010325l7bd0a1cax7652cd3e478a81d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.0.1238580002.11808.community@lists.openmoko.org>
	<d4b7a31a0904010325l7bd0a1cax7652cd3e478a81d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.urpd96lt41evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>

> I did this command
> y011pc99:/# bunzip2 openmoko-*-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2
> but I obtained:
> bunzip2: Can't open input file
> openmoko-*-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2: No such file or
> directory.
> what I have to do


for starters:
- stop with opening yet another thread for the same problem
- read the answers
- do not reply with full mails (especially not with the daily digest! who  
is supposed to read all that?), but cut it down to the parts necessary

replace openmoko-*-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2 with the full  
filename and try again.



From ba1020 at homie.homelinux.net  Wed Apr  1 12:56:24 2009
From: ba1020 at homie.homelinux.net (Juergen Schinker)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:56:24 +0100
Subject: [ALL] Software based buzz fix!
In-Reply-To: <c57c8f450904010306r325f2eb4yea95286f49be4847@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c57c8f450904010306r325f2eb4yea95286f49be4847@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D34858.3010202@homie.homelinux.net>

boilersoup boilersoup wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> after deep brainstorming
> and heavy engineering,

you really got me



From helge.hafting at hist.no  Wed Apr  1 13:17:22 2009
From: helge.hafting at hist.no (Helge Hafting)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 13:17:22 +0200
Subject: AGPS Thoughts
In-Reply-To: <200903312101.05234.openmoko@mazikeen.demon.co.uk>
References: <49D141A6.50602@omoco.de>
	<84y6umrt3x.fsf@sauna.l.org>	<49D1E484.8050405@hist.no>
	<200903312101.05234.openmoko@mazikeen.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49D34D42.8080701@hist.no>

Al Johnson wrote:
> On Tuesday 31 March 2009, Helge Hafting wrote:
[...]
>> The info cannot be considered very "secret", seeing that O2 already
>> broadcast such stuff. Or for Germans, ask them if they can provide the
>> same kind of location service so you won't have to switch to O2. ;-)
> 
> In the UK they would prefer this data to be secret - see link below.

I see. Still, I see that the not entirely up-to-date information they 
have may be forcibly released. That ought to help for AGPS purposes, 
even if some new towers aren't listed.

And then there is the hope that at least some telcos will see the light.

Helge Hafting




From anas.lbn at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 13:21:48 2009
From: anas.lbn at gmail.com (Anas Alzouhbi)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 13:21:48 +0200
Subject: which way is the easier
Message-ID: <d4b7a31a0904010421x4578d67ag2dccd4936476ec63@mail.gmail.com>

Hello!
I succeed to do the ssh with my openmoko,but
the ways that I have found  to arrive to build the first program are:
1 - Documentation: Building a helloworld application, which needs to
prepare to it to build openmoko from scratch, which have in
prerequisites to follow getting started steps of openEmbedded
2- Customizing the openmoko distribution (I think this is way is
easier than the first) this requires to build teh Mokomakefile
3- Documentation: Openmoko application development in 5 minutes.
4- Follow the toolchain
.... and others
which do you recommend for a starter to follow until finish??



From lida_mail at 163.com  Wed Apr  1 13:52:51 2009
From: lida_mail at 163.com (Daniel.Li)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 19:52:51 +0800
Subject: which way is the easier
In-Reply-To: <d4b7a31a0904010421x4578d67ag2dccd4936476ec63@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4b7a31a0904010421x4578d67ag2dccd4936476ec63@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1238586771.6810.9.camel@daniel-laptop>

Hi Anas,

I'm also interested in FR, and I'm a fresh man to this. 
As we all know that there are about three SW levels, which is
u-boot,kernel,Application.


On Wed, 2009-04-01 at 13:21 +0200, Anas Alzouhbi wrote:
> Hello!
> I succeed to do the ssh with my openmoko,but
> the ways that I have found  to arrive to build the first program are:
> 1 - Documentation: Building a helloworld application, which needs to
> prepare to it to build openmoko from scratch, which have in
> prerequisites to follow getting started steps of openEmbedded
> 2- Customizing the openmoko distribution (I think this is way is
> easier than the first) this requires to build teh Mokomakefile
Well, currently, there are lots of distribution
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions .
If u like Mokomakefile, then OE should be started first, I'm on this,
but slowly :(

> 3- Documentation: Openmoko application development in 5 minutes.
I think this one is easy to do, I mean provide a "hello world" :) 

> 4- Follow the toolchain
Yeah, tool chain also can be built by your self, if it's just for "hello
world". I think it's *NOT* that difficult.

> .... and others
> which do you recommend for a starter to follow until finish??

Well, it's hard to say, which one do u prefer? :) Just your choice,
right? :):):)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> devel mailing list
> devel at lists.openmoko.org
> https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
-- 
Daniel.Li <lida_mail at 163.com>
PALFocus (http://palfocus.oicp.net)





From openmoko at ginguppin.de  Wed Apr  1 14:16:24 2009
From: openmoko at ginguppin.de (arne anka)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:16:24 +0200
Subject: [200X.Y] toolchain. was Re: community Digest, Vol 125, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <d4b7a31a0904010350u5e4a9786y361ac9bb4bd4dde0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.0.1238580002.11808.community@lists.openmoko.org>
	<d4b7a31a0904010325l7bd0a1cax7652cd3e478a81d@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.urpd96lt41evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>
	<d4b7a31a0904010350u5e4a9786y361ac9bb4bd4dde0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.urpi1mek41evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>

> you said replace openmoko-*-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2 with the  
> full
>> filename and try again, you mean the filename of what??
> I big you hlep

well, the name of the file you fetched with wget, of course.

there are two possibilities:

http://downloads.openmoko.org/developer/toolchains/openmoko-i686-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2
or
http://downloads.openmoko.org/developer/toolchains/openmoko-x86_64-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2

depending on your system (x86, 32 bit or 64 bit) you need to download the  
right one.

thus instead of openmoko-*-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2
use
openmoko-i686-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2
or
openmoko-x86_64-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2
respectively.

next step could be

tar -txjvf  openmoko-i686-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2

which would only _list_ the contents, _not_ extract.
 from here do as you wish, i strongly advise you, to convert it to a deb  
and install the deb, as pointed out by the snippet i quoted.



From helge.hafting at hist.no  Wed Apr  1 14:28:18 2009
From: helge.hafting at hist.no (Helge Hafting)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:28:18 +0200
Subject: Openmoko for blind users?
In-Reply-To: <E496871456016F4CA8959BE4105D2A898C2FA7@troe2k1.cs.myharris.net>
References: <d4b7a31a0903310645g5435fc53v276415790bcd8045@mail.gmail.com>	<1238510961.7128.73.camel@alap>
	<E496871456016F4CA8959BE4105D2A898C2FA7@troe2k1.cs.myharris.net>
Message-ID: <49D35DE2.3080609@hist.no>

Crane, Matthew wrote:
> Seems to me OM would be a good platform to quickly implement something
> like this on a working phone.  
> 
> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20127015.700-vibrating-touch-scree
> n-puts-braille-at-the-fingertips.html

There quite a few ways to help the blind using this phone:

* Some aren't completely blind, and can be helped with an
   enormous font. Up to one character covering the display,
   if need be.

* USB have some options. One can connect a keyboard or a smaller
   numerical keyboard. Of course these can have braille keys.

* It is also possible to connect a braille output device
   "braille screen?". Such devices works well with the
   command-line interface. We already have a command-line
   app for sending SMS. Adding command-line apps for making calls and
   reading SMS isn't hard either.

* speech synthesizers can read sms (and other stuff) over the speaker.
   Free ones exists, for quite a few languages.

Being open, it isn't that hard to install alternative software. There 
are already linux software for the blind.

Helge Hafting




From leonardo at lilik.it  Wed Apr  1 14:38:13 2009
From: leonardo at lilik.it (leonardo)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:38:13 +0200
Subject: qt-extended-improved unpredictive keyboard
In-Reply-To: <60567dcc0904010245s3277faf0u70565ad5cf44c284@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49D2AAF2.4070109@lilik.it>
	<60567dcc0904010245s3277faf0u70565ad5cf44c284@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D36035.40204@lilik.it>

Franky Van Liedekerke ha scritto:


> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:44 AM, leonardo at lilik.it
			^^^^^^^^^
> I'm very interested in testing this, but the source isn't in the zipfile ...

that happens when you do posts at 2AM. :-)
I will update it as soon as possible an try to fix the bug too.

I've been using a different layout for months that works ok for me, but
has little picks for most of the people. Changing the layout isn't so
difficult.

ciao,
leonardo.

-- 
http://leonardo.lilik.it
Key fingerprint = 2C20 A587 05AC 42E5 1292  D0D4 3EED CFB5 52FD AD1E



From daniel at totalueberwachung.de  Wed Apr  1 14:49:34 2009
From: daniel at totalueberwachung.de (Daniel Willmann)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 14:49:34 +0200
Subject: GSM buzz-fix party in Braunschweig, Germany
In-Reply-To: <26fea52c0903151046v37ebf1d7t101fc9eded06f1f5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090315184206.28bd686d@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<26fea52c0903151046v37ebf1d7t101fc9eded06f1f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090401144934.360aac50@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:46:26 +0100
Yorick Moko <yorickmoko at gmail.com> wrote:

> with OM support i would surely like the fix to be applied

I am currently waiting for the phones to arrive, until then I can't
promise anything.
Since the FSOSHRUDCON has been postponed I'm currently aiming at March
1st through March 3rd for the buzz fix party.

Regards,
Daniel Willmann
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From daniel at openmoko.org  Wed Apr  1 14:52:29 2009
From: daniel at openmoko.org (Daniel Willmann)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 14:52:29 +0200
Subject: GSM buzz-fix party in Braunschweig, Germany
In-Reply-To: <841vsy3c3w.fsf@sauna.l.org>
References: <20090315184206.28bd686d@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<841vsy3c3w.fsf@sauna.l.org>
Message-ID: <20090401145229.09da3ec7@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:54:59 +0200
Timo Juhani Lindfors <timo.lindfors at iki.fi> wrote:

> Daniel Willmann <daniel at openmoko.org> writes:
> > I have now performed a couple buzz fixes and feel pretty confident
> > that I'll fix more phones than I'll break in the process. :-)
> > (I haven't broken any phones until now)
> 
> Cool, have you thought about accepting phones to be sent to you by
> mail? I'm sure you could ask for a fee to cover your time and material
> costs.

Yeah, many requests have reached me and I'll accept phones sent to me.
The only issue is that I'm not going to pay for sending back the phones
so we'll have to arrange for something there.

Regards,
Daniel Willmann
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From daniel at totalueberwachung.de  Wed Apr  1 15:01:40 2009
From: daniel at totalueberwachung.de (Daniel Willmann)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:01:40 +0200
Subject: GSM buzz-fix party in Braunschweig, Germany
In-Reply-To: <200903222108.17133.jl_lists@donalbain.de>
References: <20090315184206.28bd686d@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<200903222108.17133.jl_lists@donalbain.de>
Message-ID: <20090401150140.54e8a27e@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:08:16 +0100
Joerg Lippmann <jl_lists at donalbain.de> wrote:

> Am Sonntag 15 M?rz 2009 schrieb Daniel Willmann:
> 
> > In order to gauge interest and plan ahead wrt ordering
> > Resistors/Capacitors I'd like to know how many phones would come.
> > The party will probably take place in mid April.
> > If you are interested and would show up please mail me privately and
> > also tell me how many phones you would bring.
> >
> > If all goes well I'll be doing this with support from Openmoko and
> > will be able to replace any Freerunners I break in the process.
> 
> Hmmm, Braunschweig is about 300km from my home town. Is there a way
> to get my phone fixed as well without spending the whole day on the
> road (maybe send it to you?)

I'm considering mail delivery as an option. The only problem I have is
that I need to get the money for the return package. Don't know how we
could handle that best...

> I have terrible buzz *always* when I use my phone at home, no matter
> what distribution. So all the time when I happen to be at home and
> get a call I have to shout to the other party to call me on the land
> line. Really embarrassing to have to use an expensive phone thats
> broken by design and the manufacturer does not bother to fix it
> immediatly at no cost.

Well, the buzz issue was fixed on all of the phones I did the rework
on. And to be fair OM is supporting me (hopefully soon) with
replacement phones for the ones I break and components...


Regards,
Daniel Willmann
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From daniel at openmoko.org  Wed Apr  1 15:07:24 2009
From: daniel at openmoko.org (Daniel Willmann)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:07:24 +0200
Subject: GSM buzz-fix party in Braunschweig, Germany
In-Reply-To: <3dc1583f0903230345u2294d57fye1f25a515a7d673a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090315184206.28bd686d@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<3dc1583f0903230345u2294d57fye1f25a515a7d673a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090401150724.17a4b675@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:45:20 +0100
Sven Rebhan <odinshorse at googlemail.com> wrote:

> /me is also interested in sending the (1) phone to you. Would it also
> be possible to perform the bass fix?

No, sorry. I don't think fixes other than the buzz rework will be
supported by OM so it would be entirely your problem if I break the
phone. Joerg talked to me about offering the GPS SD Card fix so I may
be able to do that as well (though the software fix is really good
enough).

Regards,
Daniel Willmann
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From openmoko at ginguppin.de  Wed Apr  1 15:09:15 2009
From: openmoko at ginguppin.de (arne anka)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 15:09:15 +0200
Subject: GSM buzz-fix party in Braunschweig, Germany
In-Reply-To: <20090401144934.360aac50@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
References: <20090315184206.28bd686d@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<26fea52c0903151046v37ebf1d7t101fc9eded06f1f5@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090401144934.360aac50@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
Message-ID: <op.urplhpgb41evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>

> Since the FSOSHRUDCON has been postponed I'm currently aiming at March
> 1st through March 3rd for the buzz fix party.

uh, you did check the calendar, did you?



From werner at openmoko.org  Wed Apr  1 15:18:58 2009
From: werner at openmoko.org (Werner Almesberger)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:18:58 -0300
Subject: FatFingerShell vt with fullscreen keyboard
In-Reply-To: <49D096B0.7010506@hist.no>
References: <20090327070329.GA8851@rafazurita.homelinux.net>
	<20090327133430.GE4679@almesberger.net> <49D096B0.7010506@hist.no>
Message-ID: <20090401131858.GA15377@almesberger.net>

Helge Hafting wrote:
> Hm. But the glamo supports _some_ format. Will X11 be able to take
> advantage of that, if the app is smart and request exactly the subsets 
> of blending operations/dataformats that the glamo can do?

That would be a question for the X11 gurus.

> I have such a script for sms, but not for calls. I can send a message 
> like this:
> 
>   # sms 123456789 "Short message text"

Great ! So all we need is a dialer, a contacts database (just
use something like $HOME/contacts/$name with maybe a
"^key\s+value\s$" structure inside ?), and an SMS reader.
April 1 is not over yet ;-)

- Werner



From karadog at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 15:28:29 2009
From: karadog at gmail.com (HouYu Li)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 21:28:29 +0800
Subject: qt-extended-improved unpredictive keyboard
In-Reply-To: <49D36035.40204@lilik.it>
References: <49D2AAF2.4070109@lilik.it>
	<60567dcc0904010245s3277faf0u70565ad5cf44c284@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D36035.40204@lilik.it>
Message-ID: <ea736a480904010628h6797cbf2m20374d4213b304d0@mail.gmail.com>

Oh... this sound interesting... I will try it.

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 8:38 PM, leonardo <leonardo at lilik.it> wrote:

> Franky Van Liedekerke ha scritto:
>
>
> > On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:44 AM, leonardo at lilik.it
>                         ^^^^^^^^^
> > I'm very interested in testing this, but the source isn't in the zipfile
> ...
>
> that happens when you do posts at 2AM. :-)
> I will update it as soon as possible an try to fix the bug too.
>
> I've been using a different layout for months that works ok for me, but
> has little picks for most of the people. Changing the layout isn't so
> difficult.
>
> ciao,
> leonardo.
>
> --
> http://leonardo.lilik.it
> Key fingerprint = 2C20 A587 05AC 42E5 1292  D0D4 3EED CFB5 52FD AD1E
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



-- 
Best Regards

HouYu Li, Karajan

karajan_ii (at) hotmail.com
karadog (at) gmail.com
lihouyu (at) phpex.net

PHP Developer
Red Hat Certified Engineer

Shanghai, China
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From iknowjoseph at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 16:00:52 2009
From: iknowjoseph at gmail.com (Joseph Reeves)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:00:52 +0100
Subject: "$299 ESC San Jose limited time Special!" ?
Message-ID: <958244340904010700q4dc1cac1vae3884d44e14edd7@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I've not seen any mention of this on the lists, but it all looks very cheap!

http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner

# GSM 850 ( Promotion, Extras: pouch and headset x 1) $299.00 USD
# GSM 900-10 Pack $2,690.00 USD
# GSM 850-10 Pack $2,690.00 USD

Not an April Fools thing is it?

Cheers, Joseph



From daniel at totalueberwachung.de  Wed Apr  1 16:39:54 2009
From: daniel at totalueberwachung.de (Daniel Willmann)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 16:39:54 +0200
Subject: date and GPS related questions
In-Reply-To: <m2ab7l289l.fsf@home.pavel.comp>
References: <49B97C49.40201@cmartins.nl> <49BB7A69.6010605@cmartins.nl>
	<20090315132442.041b40ec@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<200903152331.18310.chris@csamuel.org>
	<20090315150420.77715574@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<m2ab7l289l.fsf@home.pavel.comp>
Message-ID: <20090401163954.12fd7597@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:15:34 +0300
Paul Fertser <fercerpav at gmail.com> wrote:

> Daniel Willmann <daniel at openmoko.org> writes:
> > I think (not sure) that Qt Extended uses the time(zone)
> > cellbroadcast messages which are broadcasted by some operators. 
> 
> Looks like +CTZV unsolicited message doesn't actually supply timezone
> information (which must include country-specific DST information),
> only current offset to UTC (or GMT even?), so it's somewhat useless
> anyway.

Right, though you do know which country the network belongs to so with
some nasty assumptions you could probably find the right timezone..
IMO it's not worth the trouble, though.

> Am i missing something?
Probably not.

Regards,
Daniel Willmann
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From cedric.berger74 at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 16:47:54 2009
From: cedric.berger74 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E9dric_Berger?=)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 16:47:54 +0200
Subject: "$299 ESC San Jose limited time Special!" ?
In-Reply-To: <958244340904010700q4dc1cac1vae3884d44e14edd7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <958244340904010700q4dc1cac1vae3884d44e14edd7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bff0f0570904010747g48f280ffrbda501abb966cd27@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 16:00, Joseph Reeves <iknowjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I've not seen any mention of this on the lists, but it all looks very cheap!
>
> http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner
>
> # GSM 850 ( Promotion, Extras: pouch and headset x 1) $299.00 USD
> # GSM 900-10 Pack $2,690.00 USD
> # GSM 850-10 Pack $2,690.00 USD
>
> Not an April Fools thing is it?

This must be in-stock phones, and as next ones (GTA2 A7) should have
some buzz fix already done at factory, these "old" ones will loose
value I would say...



From monnier at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Apr  1 16:49:41 2009
From: monnier at iro.umontreal.ca (Stefan Monnier)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:49:41 -0400
Subject: [Qt Extended] debian image
References: <49D14770.7070206@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <jwv4ox8bf9y.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>

> i have uploaded the debian based rootfs here [1]. All the patches
> to QTE Improved GIT were sent on this list yesterday.

Nice.  The next step is to package QtE so it can be installed via
apt-get.


        Stefan




From nytowl at openmoko.org  Wed Apr  1 16:47:52 2009
From: nytowl at openmoko.org (Angus Ainslie)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:47:52 -0600
Subject: using toolchain
In-Reply-To: <d4b7a31a0904010227n398013e8vaede9c7660765213@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4b7a31a0904010227n398013e8vaede9c7660765213@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1238597272.7128.139.camel@alap>

On Wed, 2009-04-01 at 11:27 +0200, Anas Alzouhbi wrote:
> Hello!
> I read the document of toolchain on:http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain
> I arrived until this command:
> "    *  Extract it directly as root, so use command "su" first (or
> prefix the tar command with "sudo" when you are using Debian/Ubuntu):
> 
>   cd /
>   tar -xjvf ~/sources/openmoko-XYZ-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2
> "
> I don't understand what I have to write in command exactly, I'm
> working on Debian
> but I runned this command: sudo tar -xjvf
> ~/sources/openmoko-XYZ-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2
>  but I obtained this error:
> tar: /root/sources/openmoko-XYZ-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2 :
> la fonction open a ?chou?: Aucun fichier ou r?pertoire de ce type
> tar: Erreur non r?cup?rable : arr?t du traitement
> tar: Child returned status 2
> tar: Des erreurs ont provoqu? l'arr?t du programme

It;s not finding the file. You need to replace the
"~/sources/openmoko-XYZ-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2" below with
the filename and location that you downloaded.

tar -xjvf ~/sources/openmoko-XYZ-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2

Angus




From iknowjoseph at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 16:58:00 2009
From: iknowjoseph at gmail.com (Joseph Reeves)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:58:00 +0100
Subject: "$299 ESC San Jose limited time Special!" ?
In-Reply-To: <bff0f0570904010747g48f280ffrbda501abb966cd27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <958244340904010700q4dc1cac1vae3884d44e14edd7@mail.gmail.com>
	<bff0f0570904010747g48f280ffrbda501abb966cd27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <958244340904010758i404170r3944072b70f4ba12@mail.gmail.com>

That would make sense...

After a bit of googling for "belgium openmoko" (a perfectly normal
search term, honest...) I found this reseller that I'd never seen
before:

https://kd85.com/openmoko.html

Seems to have taken delivery of 180/200:

http://openmoko.kd85.com/images/

and is selling them on at a very good price, has been doing so since
November last year. Openmoko stock clearance?

Cheers, Joseph



2009/4/1 C?dric Berger <cedric.berger74 at gmail.com>:
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 16:00, Joseph Reeves <iknowjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I've not seen any mention of this on the lists, but it all looks very cheap!
>>
>> http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner
>>
>> # GSM 850 ( Promotion, Extras: pouch and headset x 1) $299.00 USD
>> # GSM 900-10 Pack $2,690.00 USD
>> # GSM 850-10 Pack $2,690.00 USD
>>
>> Not an April Fools thing is it?
>
> This must be in-stock phones, and as next ones (GTA2 A7) should have
> some buzz fix already done at factory, these "old" ones will loose
> value I would say...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



From pander at users.sourceforge.net  Wed Apr  1 15:57:25 2009
From: pander at users.sourceforge.net (Pander)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 15:57:25 +0200
Subject: GSM buzz-fix party in Braunschweig, Germany
In-Reply-To: <20090401145229.09da3ec7@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
References: <20090315184206.28bd686d@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>	<841vsy3c3w.fsf@sauna.l.org>
	<20090401145229.09da3ec7@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
Message-ID: <49D372C5.9030206@users.sourceforge.net>

Hi all,

For me from centre of the Netherlands it is 413 km, 4 hours by car.

I have been of the list for a while. When is the exact date for this fix
party?

Any one else from the Netherlands or Belgium thinking about going there
by car? Perhaps car pulling is an option. Four OpenMoko geeks will have
plenty to talk about in 4 hours of driving ;) Possibly we could bring
even more devices to fix.

What about the resellers, are they having their stock fixed?

Regards,

Pander



From nytowl at openmoko.org  Wed Apr  1 17:03:46 2009
From: nytowl at openmoko.org (Angus Ainslie)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 09:03:46 -0600
Subject: started with openembedded
In-Reply-To: <d4b7a31a0904010141q30b3be2alfff8700c3ad09f92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4b7a31a0903310645g5435fc53v276415790bcd8045@mail.gmail.com>
	<1238510961.7128.73.camel@alap>
	<d4b7a31a0904010141q30b3be2alfff8700c3ad09f92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1238598226.7128.142.camel@alap>

On Wed, 2009-04-01 at 10:41 +0200, Anas Alzouhbi wrote:
> Thank you for your recommandation, I'm a new user and programmer on
> Linux, could you help me how can I run my commands as normal user,
> with the problem of permission of creating directories.
> what do you mean start from scratch or do a chown on directories.
> Thank you for you help that I big it
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Angus Ainslie <nytowl at openmoko.org> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2009-03-31 at 15:45 +0200, Anas Alzouhbi wrote:
> >> hello!
> >> I followed the instruction written in
> >> http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/Getting_Started,
> >> I arrived to this command git clone git://git.openembedded.net/openembedded
> >> but it shows this error:
> >> fatal: could not create work tree dir 'openembedded'.
> >> what must I do
> >>
> >
> > Hi Anas
> >
> > >From looking at some of your other mails you've been running some
> > commands as root. It's not necessary and dangerous. It's probably a
> > permission problem on the directory, so either start from scratch
> > somewhere else as a normal user or do a chown on the directories you're
> > working in.
> >
> > Angus
> >
> >

Please keep the thread on list

Google pointed out a few links

http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Debian_newbie_help_documentation
http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/Getting_started

Angus




From daniel at totalueberwachung.de  Wed Apr  1 18:15:51 2009
From: daniel at totalueberwachung.de (Daniel Willmann)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 18:15:51 +0200
Subject: date and GPS related questions
In-Reply-To: <1237154360.4420.45.camel@rattus>
References: <49B97C49.40201@cmartins.nl> <gpf851$37s$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<49BB7A69.6010605@cmartins.nl>
	<20090315132442.041b40ec@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<49BD056F.5020800@cmartins.nl>
	<20090315154704.3637943b@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<49BD295F.1040202@cmartins.nl> <1237154360.4420.45.camel@rattus>
Message-ID: <20090401181551.0165ec9b@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>

Hi,

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 06:59:20 +0900
William Kenworthy <billk at iinet.net.au> wrote:

> No, otimed sucks for a number of reasons (not the least being hard
> coded to an NTP server somewhere in Europe) so control like you are
> after is critical.

just wanted to follow up on this.
From the sample frameworkd.conf file:
#
# Subsystem configuration for otimed
#
[otimed]
# a list of time/zone sources to use or NONE
timesources = GPS,NTP
zonesources = GSM

It would be nice to change that at runtime, patches welcome. :-)

> In Perth Australia, vodafone appears to have my location set to Lord
> Howe Island - some 3000+ km away in the pacific - I am near the Indian
> Ocean.  As well, I suspect they are not sending local time, but time
> as it is in the eastern states (2hr diff).  Is there a way to get the
> gsm to print the data as to what it thinks it is? - some command in
> mickeyterm? - be nice to confirm and know what its actually doing as I
> certainly cant trust the FR to get it right.

Framework debugging should tell you.

> The freerunner by design seems unable to keep accurate time unless you
> are in Europe ...

Well, timekeeping is independent from that. The UTC time will stay
right no matter what timezone you're in.

Regards,
Daniel Willmann
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From yogizz at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 18:28:10 2009
From: yogizz at gmail.com (Yogiz)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 19:28:10 +0300
Subject: GSM buzz-fix party in Braunschweig, Germany
In-Reply-To: <op.urplhpgb41evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>
References: <20090315184206.28bd686d@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<26fea52c0903151046v37ebf1d7t101fc9eded06f1f5@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090401144934.360aac50@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<op.urplhpgb41evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>
Message-ID: <20090401192810.306b7ad9@blunt.home>

On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 15:09:15 +0200
"arne anka" <openmoko at ginguppin.de> wrote:

> > Since the FSOSHRUDCON has been postponed I'm currently aiming at
> > March 1st through March 3rd for the buzz fix party.
> 
> uh, you did check the calendar, did you?

I think he did. 334 days in not that much, is it?



From nytowl at openmoko.org  Wed Apr  1 19:04:27 2009
From: nytowl at openmoko.org (Angus Ainslie)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:04:27 -0600
Subject: date and GPS related questions
In-Reply-To: <20090401181551.0165ec9b@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
References: <49B97C49.40201@cmartins.nl> <gpf851$37s$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<49BB7A69.6010605@cmartins.nl>
	<20090315132442.041b40ec@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<49BD056F.5020800@cmartins.nl>
	<20090315154704.3637943b@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<49BD295F.1040202@cmartins.nl> <1237154360.4420.45.camel@rattus>
	<20090401181551.0165ec9b@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
Message-ID: <1238605467.7128.179.camel@alap>

On Wed, 2009-04-01 at 18:15 +0200, Daniel Willmann wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 06:59:20 +0900
> William Kenworthy <billk at iinet.net.au> wrote:
> 
> > No, otimed sucks for a number of reasons (not the least being hard
> > coded to an NTP server somewhere in Europe) so control like you are
> > after is critical.
> 
> just wanted to follow up on this.
> From the sample frameworkd.conf file:
> #
> # Subsystem configuration for otimed
> #
> [otimed]
> # a list of time/zone sources to use or NONE
> timesources = GPS,NTP
> zonesources = GSM
> 
> It would be nice to change that at runtime, patches welcome. :-)

For counties that have more than one timezone make sure
that /etc/localtime is COPIED from /usr/share/zoneinfo
and  /etc/timezone is properly set as well.

In /etc/frameworkd.conf change zonesources to 

zonesources = NONE

> 
> > In Perth Australia, vodafone appears to have my location set to Lord
> > Howe Island - some 3000+ km away in the pacific - I am near the Indian
> > Ocean.  As well, I suspect they are not sending local time, but time
> > as it is in the eastern states (2hr diff).  Is there a way to get the
> > gsm to print the data as to what it thinks it is? - some command in
> > mickeyterm? - be nice to confirm and know what its actually doing as I
> > certainly cant trust the FR to get it right.
> 
> Framework debugging should tell you.
> 
> > The freerunner by design seems unable to keep accurate time unless you
> > are in Europe ...
> 
> Well, timekeeping is independent from that. The UTC time will stay
> right no matter what timezone you're in.
> 

The timezone packets for multi timezone countries aren't processed
properly yet.

Angus




From openmoko at mazikeen.demon.co.uk  Wed Apr  1 19:05:47 2009
From: openmoko at mazikeen.demon.co.uk (Al Johnson)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 18:05:47 +0100
Subject: Need help with Log "Message"
In-Reply-To: <78aaeffc0904010021p5d89a26bg3bbaec0b92b84444@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78aaeffc0904010021p5d89a26bg3bbaec0b92b84444@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200904011805.47712.openmoko@mazikeen.demon.co.uk>

On Wednesday 01 April 2009, waqar afridi wrote:
> hi i m new comer to the openmoko community and m highly interested in it. i
> have flashed a new kernel in my openmoko but can not get *"messages"* file
> in my /var/log/. can any one help.

Use logread to see the log contents.




From openmoko at mazikeen.demon.co.uk  Wed Apr  1 19:25:23 2009
From: openmoko at mazikeen.demon.co.uk (Al Johnson)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 18:25:23 +0100
Subject: AGPS Thoughts
In-Reply-To: <49D34D42.8080701@hist.no>
References: <49D141A6.50602@omoco.de>
	<200903312101.05234.openmoko@mazikeen.demon.co.uk>
	<49D34D42.8080701@hist.no>
Message-ID: <200904011825.23751.openmoko@mazikeen.demon.co.uk>

On Wednesday 01 April 2009, Helge Hafting wrote:
> Al Johnson wrote:
> > On Tuesday 31 March 2009, Helge Hafting wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >> The info cannot be considered very "secret", seeing that O2 already
> >> broadcast such stuff. Or for Germans, ask them if they can provide the
> >> same kind of location service so you won't have to switch to O2. ;-)
> >
> > In the UK they would prefer this data to be secret - see link below.
>
> I see. Still, I see that the not entirely up-to-date information they
> have may be forcibly released. That ought to help for AGPS purposes,
> even if some new towers aren't listed.

It may have been released, but they still hold the copyright. In many (most?) 
jurisdictions you will need a license to use it for AGPS purposes, and I doubt 
they'll be granting one. 

> And then there is the hope that at least some telcos will see the light.

Indeed,  but on past experience I expect to be waiting a long time!



From psonek2 at seznam.cz  Wed Apr  1 20:25:13 2009
From: psonek2 at seznam.cz (Radek Polak)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:25:13 +0200
Subject: [Qt Extended] debian image
In-Reply-To: <jwv4ox8bf9y.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
References: <49D14770.7070206@seznam.cz>
	<jwv4ox8bf9y.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <49D3B189.4020105@seznam.cz>

Stefan Monnier wrote:
> Nice.  The next step is to package QtE so it can be installed via
> apt-get.
> 
> 
>         Stefan


Yes, i was thinking exactly the same. There are some things that
have to be solved cleanly before this can be done. E.g. the udev
rule for GSM modem. I have described it in my howto.

Radek



From freerunner at newkirk.us  Wed Apr  1 20:51:19 2009
From: freerunner at newkirk.us (Joel Newkirk)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 14:51:19 -0400
Subject: Need help with Log "Message"
In-Reply-To: <78aaeffc0904010021p5d89a26bg3bbaec0b92b84444@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78aaeffc0904010021p5d89a26bg3bbaec0b92b84444@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090401145119.068aae43@j.newkirk.us>

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:21:03 +0500
waqar afridi <afridi.waqar at gmail.com> wrote:

> hi i m new comer to the openmoko community and m highly interested in
> it. i have flashed a new kernel in my openmoko but can not get
> *"messages"* file in my /var/log/. can any one help.

use logread, or edit /etc/syslog.conf and change "buffer" to "file",
then restart.



From liedekef at telenet.be  Wed Apr  1 20:53:06 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 20:53:06 +0200
Subject: [QT Extended Improved] on debian rootfs with 2.6.28
In-Reply-To: <49CFF386.5000000@seznam.cz>
References: <49CFF386.5000000@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20090401205306.233c7ae8@telenet.be>

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 00:17:42 +0200
Radek Polak <psonek2 at seznam.cz> wrote:

> Hi,
> i am now working on QTE running on debian rootfs with
> recent kernel (latest andy-tracking).
> 
> Right now i think i have working all that i was using
> with QTE 4.4.3 from here [1]. This basically is:
> 
> * working SMS/calls
> * GPRS
> * suspend/resume
> 
> Attached are patches that i used and work-in progress
> howto. I will upload whole rootfs during this week.

Radek,

you first patch activates gstreamer. Is this on purpose or just because
it works on debian? Or does it work on fso based rootfs systems as well?
When I tried your patches, together with the one from Filip for the usb
cable, the system compiled just fine. But after that: I want a
uimage+jffs2 based system to work with, and debian only installs on SD.
So I tried different scenarios:

- the one recommended with QtEi (without the 2.6.28 patches), but then
  the system doesn't wake up for sms
- the old stable Om2008.12 uimage (without the 2.6.28 patches), but
  then I got the sms duplication issue (but it did wake up from suspend
  for sms's though)
- the fso-console image (with 2.6.28 patches, halting frameworkd and
  fso specific stuff): with the gstreamer patch, I didn't get any sound
  (even after installing everything possible for gstreamer). Without it
  (and using the libmad mp3 patch), it was ok. But voice note recording
  didn't work (and I doubt the bluetooth stuff as well, but didn't got
  around of testing that).
- the hackable:1 distro: never got further than second boot, ssh not
  possible. It seems it wants my SIM card to continue or so ...

I would put my money on working with the fso-console image, and going
from there to build a workable system (maybe even using a small script
that disables frameworkd, installs QtExtended and all that).

So: which uimage to choose? Maybe I messed up the
testing-om-gta02-20090120.uImage.bin tests, so if anyboy can confirm
that their system does wake up using this kernel ... ?

Franky



From dscaini at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 21:25:02 2009
From: dscaini at gmail.com (Davide Scaini)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 21:25:02 +0200
Subject: [SHR] from debian to shr ;-)
In-Reply-To: <abaa3a210903310722y3cb0b6eax34683e107c665bc7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18db98c80903300157n37155b32g2d767c2ff5bad90d@mail.gmail.com> 
	<18db98c80903300444q2ff1c9a9k685453dc20852ed2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<200903301405.18150.mok@mnet-online.de>
	<18db98c80903300508q28fa385fyd4371628b661f00a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<abaa3a210903310722y3cb0b6eax34683e107c665bc7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18db98c80904011225t575064f8kd158a1ed0f502a12@mail.gmail.com>

Nice! it works, it seems to me that the category Office is compulsory.
I tried minimo, it's really fast!
thank you i'll post my impression on this fabulous shr!
d

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Steven ** <
montgoss+openmokocommunity at gmail.com<montgoss%2Bopenmokocommunity at gmail.com>
> wrote:

> This has happened to me before when Illume didn't like the combination
> of categories I used.  Copy/paste the categories from a working
> desktop file and see if that helps.
>
> -Steven
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:08 AM, Davide Scaini <dscaini at gmail.com> wrote:
> > yes, yesterday i tried making new files in the dir you specified, but
> with
> > no luck (no new icon appeared)... i'll try again, thanks for your reply!
> > d
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
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From psonek2 at seznam.cz  Wed Apr  1 22:06:22 2009
From: psonek2 at seznam.cz (Radek Polak)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:06:22 +0200
Subject: [QT Extended Improved] on debian rootfs with 2.6.28
In-Reply-To: <20090401205306.233c7ae8@telenet.be>
References: <49CFF386.5000000@seznam.cz> <20090401205306.233c7ae8@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <49D3C93E.7040506@seznam.cz>

Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:

  But after that: I want a
> uimage+jffs2 based system to work with, and debian only installs on SD.

Hi Franky,
i wanted to make jffs2 filesystem too. Just didnt get to it yet. It
should be possible. The rootfs is not very big. I think that jffs2
can be made just by untaring the and using mkfs.jffs2 as descibed
here [1]. The kernel is in the tarbal so this should be ok. And last
thing might be needed is changing /etc/fstab - you can use your
current fstab for reference. Maybe this step is not needed and my
fstab can handle jffs2 too.

I could try this - maybe tomorrow?

Radek


[1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Userspace_root_image



From liedekef at telenet.be  Wed Apr  1 22:57:03 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:57:03 +0200
Subject: [QT Extended Improved] on debian rootfs with 2.6.28
In-Reply-To: <49D3C93E.7040506@seznam.cz>
References: <49CFF386.5000000@seznam.cz> <20090401205306.233c7ae8@telenet.be>
	<49D3C93E.7040506@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20090401225703.2f6867f2@telenet.be>

On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:06:22 +0200
Radek Polak <psonek2 at seznam.cz> wrote:

> Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:
> 
>   But after that: I want a
> > uimage+jffs2 based system to work with, and debian only installs on
> > SD.
> 
> Hi Franky,
> i wanted to make jffs2 filesystem too. Just didnt get to it yet. It
> should be possible. The rootfs is not very big. I think that jffs2
> can be made just by untaring the and using mkfs.jffs2 as descibed
> here [1]. The kernel is in the tarbal so this should be ok. And last
> thing might be needed is changing /etc/fstab - you can use your
> current fstab for reference. Maybe this step is not needed and my
> fstab can handle jffs2 too.
>

hmmm ... I just tried creating the jffs2, it's 164 MB, about double the
size of any other rootfs (I already removed the kernel uimage then).
I'm trying it now, but it will take so much longer to transfer that
amount of data ...
Btw: does anybody have any idea how to get gstreamer to work with a
fso-based rootfs? That might reduce the size of the image *a lot* ...
and maybe solve the sound recording issue and such ...

Franky



From daniel at totalueberwachung.de  Thu Apr  2 00:13:20 2009
From: daniel at totalueberwachung.de (Daniel Willmann)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:13:20 +0200
Subject: GSM buzz-fix party in Braunschweig, Germany
In-Reply-To: <op.urplhpgb41evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>
References: <20090315184206.28bd686d@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<26fea52c0903151046v37ebf1d7t101fc9eded06f1f5@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090401144934.360aac50@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<op.urplhpgb41evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>
Message-ID: <20090402001320.66affbf4@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>

On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 15:09:15 +0200
"arne anka" <openmoko at ginguppin.de> wrote:

> > Since the FSOSHRUDCON has been postponed I'm currently aiming at
> > March 1st through March 3rd for the buzz fix party.
> 
> uh, you did check the calendar, did you?

Yeah, off-by-two. :-)
I meant May 1st through May 3rd.

Regards,
Daniel Willmann
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From ed at kapitein.org  Thu Apr  2 00:37:35 2009
From: ed at kapitein.org (Ed Kapitein)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 00:37:35 +0200
Subject: "$299 ESC San Jose limited time Special!" ?
In-Reply-To: <958244340904010758i404170r3944072b70f4ba12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <958244340904010700q4dc1cac1vae3884d44e14edd7@mail.gmail.com>	<bff0f0570904010747g48f280ffrbda501abb966cd27@mail.gmail.com>
	<958244340904010758i404170r3944072b70f4ba12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D3ECAF.4090603@kapitein.org>

Hi Jospeh,

That is where i got my  FR.
Good reseller, i would buy there again.

Kind regards,
Ed

Joseph Reeves wrote:
> That would make sense...
>
> After a bit of googling for "belgium openmoko" (a perfectly normal
> search term, honest...) I found this reseller that I'd never seen
> before:
>
> https://kd85.com/openmoko.html
>
> Seems to have taken delivery of 180/200:
>
> http://openmoko.kd85.com/images/
>
> and is selling them on at a very good price, has been doing so since
> November last year. Openmoko stock clearance?
>
> Cheers, Joseph
>
>
>
> 2009/4/1 C?dric Berger <cedric.berger74 at gmail.com>:
>   
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 16:00, Joseph Reeves <iknowjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> I've not seen any mention of this on the lists, but it all looks very cheap!
>>>
>>> http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner
>>>
>>> # GSM 850 ( Promotion, Extras: pouch and headset x 1) $299.00 USD
>>> # GSM 900-10 Pack $2,690.00 USD
>>> # GSM 850-10 Pack $2,690.00 USD
>>>
>>> Not an April Fools thing is it?
>>>       
>> This must be in-stock phones, and as next ones (GTA2 A7) should have
>> some buzz fix already done at factory, these "old" ones will loose
>> value I would say...
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
>   




From leonardo at lilik.it  Thu Apr  2 00:54:55 2009
From: leonardo at lilik.it (leonardo at lilik.it)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 00:54:55 +0200
Subject: qt-extended-improved unpredictive keyboard
In-Reply-To: <60567dcc0904010245s3277faf0u70565ad5cf44c284@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49D2AAF2.4070109@lilik.it>
	<60567dcc0904010245s3277faf0u70565ad5cf44c284@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D3F0BF.5000104@lilik.it>

Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:44 AM, leonardo at lilik.it
> Hi,
> 
> I'm very interested in testing this, but the source isn't in the zipfile ...
> For the screenshots, maybe you can try
> http://qtextended.org/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=18 ?

http://leonardo.lilik.it/wordpress/2009/04/01/qt-extended-un-predictive-keyboard/

here we go, you can find the source code in the zip and the .so
including bugfix to make the first row not overlap with the prediction row.

ciao,
leonardo.

-- 
http://leonardo.lilik.it
Key fingerprint = 2C20 A587 05AC 42E5 1292  D0D4 3EED CFB5 52FD AD1E



From steve at openmoko.com  Thu Apr  2 01:25:55 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:25:55 -0700
Subject: "$299 ESC San Jose limited time Special!" ?
In-Reply-To: <958244340904010700q4dc1cac1vae3884d44e14edd7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <958244340904010700q4dc1cac1vae3884d44e14edd7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D3F803.6060201@openmoko.com>

Its the real deal.

Shipping from US only.

Sean gave a great speech at ESC and he was join by Bill Gatliff who 
reviewed his experience with the platform. This is a new market for
us, one not so driven by the needs of a "daily phone." more of a
hardware hacker crowd who care more about the availability of schematics.



Joseph Reeves wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> I've not seen any mention of this on the lists, but it all looks very cheap!
> 
> http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner
> 
> # GSM 850 ( Promotion, Extras: pouch and headset x 1) $299.00 USD
> # GSM 900-10 Pack $2,690.00 USD
> # GSM 850-10 Pack $2,690.00 USD
> 
> Not an April Fools thing is it?
> 
> Cheers, Joseph
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



From billk at iinet.net.au  Thu Apr  2 01:24:21 2009
From: billk at iinet.net.au (William Kenworthy)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 07:24:21 +0800
Subject: date and GPS related questions
In-Reply-To: <20090401181551.0165ec9b@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
References: <49B97C49.40201@cmartins.nl> <gpf851$37s$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<49BB7A69.6010605@cmartins.nl>
	<20090315132442.041b40ec@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<49BD056F.5020800@cmartins.nl>
	<20090315154704.3637943b@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<49BD295F.1040202@cmartins.nl> <1237154360.4420.45.camel@rattus>
	<20090401181551.0165ec9b@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
Message-ID: <1238628261.4857.7.camel@rattus>

On Wed, 2009-04-01 at 18:15 +0200, Daniel Willmann wrote:
> Hi,
> 
....
> Well, timekeeping is independent from that. The UTC time will stay
> right no matter what timezone you're in.
> 

Unfortunately it doesnt - wanders all over the place, usually lagging.
If I notice it, I usually find otimed.py has overwritten my changes to
the ntp reference (a local timeserver helps a lot - but its still not
great).  Depending on where I am connected to, it may or may not see the
site in Germany, which may or may not be extremely slow/lagged.  If it
gets too far out, you have to manually set it.  It looks like it often
just "refuses" to work.  Nothing in the logs.  I also noticed yesterday
it says "checking every 600 seconds" - then it went off and started
checking just over every 60 seconds.






From monnier at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Apr  2 02:23:48 2009
From: monnier at iro.umontreal.ca (Stefan Monnier)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:23:48 -0400
Subject: [Qt Extended] debian image
References: <49D14770.7070206@seznam.cz>
	<jwv4ox8bf9y.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
	<49D3B189.4020105@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <jwvfxgs9bre.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>

> Yes, i was thinking exactly the same. There are some things that
> have to be solved cleanly before this can be done. E.g. the udev
> rule for GSM modem. I have described it in my howto.

The udev rule seems easy to fix: rather than put it in
/media/card/etc/udev/rules.d/50-udev.rules, put it in a new file
/media/card/etc/udev/rules.d/50-qtextended.rules


        Stefan




From karadog at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 02:26:41 2009
From: karadog at gmail.com (HouYu Li)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 08:26:41 +0800
Subject: [QT Extended Improved] patch:
	0001-using-uevent-to-get-kernel-notifications-for-usb-cable-changed.txt
In-Reply-To: <op.uro3u9x75z3zlq@pc-filonk.visysglobal.local>
References: <op.uro3u9x75z3zlq@pc-filonk.visysglobal.local>
Message-ID: <ea736a480904011726n23747fc5y18661beac162eb88@mail.gmail.com>

That's great......Now QtEI should work better on kernel 2.6.28. I will do a
test soon.

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Filip Onkelinx <filip at linux4.be> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> attached is a patch to use uevent to get kernel notifications for
> 'usb-cable-changed' in QtExtended on recent kernels (>=2.6.28).
> On 'older' kernels (<2.6.28), this information was comming in trough
> /dev/input/event4 but this is no longer working (there is a ticket for this
> at https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2254 ).
> With this patch my FR switches correctly from battery power savings scheme
> to online pwoer scheme, and usb networking goes up/down as expected.
> Same mechanism could be used to re-implement an event based neobattery.
>
> This patch should not break 2.6.24 compatibility.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Filip.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>


-- 
Best Regards

HouYu Li, Karajan

karajan_ii (at) hotmail.com
karadog (at) gmail.com
lihouyu (at) phpex.net

PHP Developer
Red Hat Certified Engineer

Shanghai, China
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From lists.nacho at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 03:57:33 2009
From: lists.nacho at gmail.com (Nacho Seijo)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 03:57:33 +0200
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <629966ef0904011857m72210980xccc58007b651951d@mail.gmail.com>

2009/4/1 KaZeR <kazer at altern.org>

> Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann a ?crit :
> > +1 from me.
> >
> > I'm using unstable as primary phone. And so far had no real problems.
> >
> > I remember though that somebody had strange problems receiving SMS. If
> that's
> > still valid please stand up and speak :-)
> >
> >
> /me stands up.


I stand up too.

>
>
> Latest unstable is nice : fast compared to other distros, GPS works
> fine, a lot of good things.
> But the sms apps still tends to segfault when launched. And sometimes
> some messages aren't viewable using the GUI, but i can see them using
> AT+CMGL
>
>
I'm having exactly this problem with sms that don't appear on sms app.
But puting the sim in another phone they appear as read.
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From lists.nacho at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 04:18:10 2009
From: lists.nacho at gmail.com (Nacho Seijo)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 04:18:10 +0200
Subject: 
In-Reply-To: <629966ef0904011857m72210980xccc58007b651951d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <629966ef0904011857m72210980xccc58007b651951d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <629966ef0904011918g72342f2cueeeb3bc49d2f68a@mail.gmail.com>

uppps!
sorry i made a mistake sending this mail. it was for the shr list

2009/4/2 Nacho Seijo <lists.nacho at gmail.com>

> 2009/4/1 KaZeR <kazer at altern.org>
>
>> Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann a ?crit :
>> > +1 from me.
>> >
>> > I'm using unstable as primary phone. And so far had no real problems.
>> >
>> > I remember though that somebody had strange problems receiving SMS. If
>> that's
>> > still valid please stand up and speak :-)
>> >
>> >
>> /me stands up.
>
>
> I stand up too.
>
>>
>>
>> Latest unstable is nice : fast compared to other distros, GPS works
>> fine, a lot of good things.
>> But the sms apps still tends to segfault when launched. And sometimes
>> some messages aren't viewable using the GUI, but i can see them using
>> AT+CMGL
>>
>>
> I'm having exactly this problem with sms that don't appear on sms app.
> But puting the sim in another phone they appear as read.
>
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From sushama at openmoko.com  Thu Apr  2 05:28:35 2009
From: sushama at openmoko.com (sushama)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 11:28:35 +0800
Subject: The draft of 15th community update
Message-ID: <200904021128.36413.sushama@openmoko.com>

Dear All,

The draft for the 15th community update can be found here: 
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates/April_05%2C_2009

Please feel free to add/edit contents.I have not been able to gather much 
information about some distributions.If anyone could add some information 
regarding the same or anything else that I have missed out would be of great 
help. 

Thanks  and Regards,
Sushama





From fercerpav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 07:05:19 2009
From: fercerpav at gmail.com (Paul Fertser)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 09:05:19 +0400
Subject: The draft of 15th community update
In-Reply-To: <200904021128.36413.sushama@openmoko.com> (sushama@openmoko.com's
	message of "Thu\, 2 Apr 2009 11\:28\:35 +0800")
References: <200904021128.36413.sushama@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <m2ljqjfxww.fsf@home.pavel.comp>

sushama <sushama at openmoko.com> writes:
> Please feel free to add/edit contents.I have not been able to gather much 
> information about some distributions.

No wonder, never seen you on an IRC channel where most FSO and SHR
devs gather and other important dev-related things happen.

-- 
Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
mailto:fercerpav at gmail.com



From mike at mikecrash.com  Thu Apr  2 07:22:47 2009
From: mike at mikecrash.com (Mike Crash)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:22:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Debian] Chronometer
In-Reply-To: <84k568tb8v.fsf@sauna.l.org>
References: <1238350998574-2553524.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<84k568tb8v.fsf@sauna.l.org>
Message-ID: <1238649767573-2573426.post@n2.nabble.com>


Uploaded new version with implemented lap counter, but i have forget to remove \r in sources, may be later :|
-- 
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/-Debian--Chronometer-tp2553524p2573426.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




From liedekef at telenet.be  Thu Apr  2 09:19:59 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 09:19:59 +0200
Subject: [Qt Extended] debian image
In-Reply-To: <jwvfxgs9bre.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
References: <49D14770.7070206@seznam.cz>
	<jwv4ox8bf9y.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
	<49D3B189.4020105@seznam.cz>
	<jwvfxgs9bre.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <60567dcc0904020019g7da81721vd64673104d6abfc7@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

yesterday evening I've tried the debian image (converted to uimage+jffs2),
but it seems very slow compared to a fso based image. Also the voicenotes
*seems* to be recording, but not playing :-)
So I've tried an fso-nox image+andy-tracking kernel, and that just worked
out of the box (but again not the voicenotes). Although there's an issue
with bluetoothd not finding HAL (any tips are appreciated), and probably
because of that, bluetooth doesn't work in QtExtended as well ... it needs
further investigation.
So this evening I'll play a bit with that image (I need to add atd from
angstrom to get the alarms to work probably) and see about the bluetooth
thingie.

Can anybody explain to me what the gstreamer engine does for qtextended? It
seems the compile is ok, I've got sound, but no mp3 support yet (so for
that: do I just need extra gstreamer plugins or the mp3 libmad patch?)

Franky

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 2:23 AM, Stefan Monnier <monnier at iro.umontreal.ca>wrote:

> > Yes, i was thinking exactly the same. There are some things that
> > have to be solved cleanly before this can be done. E.g. the udev
> > rule for GSM modem. I have described it in my howto.
>
> The udev rule seems easy to fix: rather than put it in
> /media/card/etc/udev/rules.d/50-udev.rules, put it in a new file
> /media/card/etc/udev/rules.d/50-qtextended.rules
>
>
>        Stefan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
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From liedekef at telenet.be  Thu Apr  2 09:22:33 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 09:22:33 +0200
Subject: [QT Extended Improved] patch:
	0001-using-uevent-to-get-kernel-notifications-for-usb-cable-changed.txt
In-Reply-To: <op.uro3u9x75z3zlq@pc-filonk.visysglobal.local>
References: <op.uro3u9x75z3zlq@pc-filonk.visysglobal.local>
Message-ID: <60567dcc0904020022q2390e826n4aa0d23dc8d2495f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Filip Onkelinx <filip at linux4.be> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> attached is a patch to use uevent to get kernel notifications for
> 'usb-cable-changed' in QtExtended on recent kernels (>=2.6.28).
> On 'older' kernels (<2.6.28), this information was comming in trough
> /dev/input/event4 but this is no longer working (there is a ticket for this
> at https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2254 ).
> With this patch my FR switches correctly from battery power savings scheme
> to online pwoer scheme, and usb networking goes up/down as expected.
> Same mechanism could be used to re-implement an event based neobattery.
>

Filip,

does this mean the 2.6.28 based system detects usb cable changed, just for
networking? Or does the battery start charging as well?

Franky
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From filip at linux4.be  Thu Apr  2 09:31:03 2009
From: filip at linux4.be (Filip Onkelinx)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 09:31:03 +0200
Subject: [QT Extended Improved] patch:
	0001-using-uevent-to-get-kernel-notifications-for-usb-cable-changed.txt
In-Reply-To: <60567dcc0904020022q2390e826n4aa0d23dc8d2495f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.uro3u9x75z3zlq@pc-filonk.visysglobal.local>
	<60567dcc0904020022q2390e826n4aa0d23dc8d2495f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.urq0h1r55z3zlq@pc-filonk.visysglobal.local>

Franky,

battery starts charging as well, cableChanged is also being used for  
changing powermanagment scheme.

F.

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 09:22:33 +0200, Franky Van Liedekerke  
<liedekef at telenet.be> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Filip Onkelinx <filip at linux4.be> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> attached is a patch to use uevent to get kernel notifications for
>> 'usb-cable-changed' in QtExtended on recent kernels (>=2.6.28).
>> On 'older' kernels (<2.6.28), this information was comming in trough
>> /dev/input/event4 but this is no longer working (there is a ticket for  
>> this
>> at https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2254 ).
>> With this patch my FR switches correctly from battery power savings  
>> scheme
>> to online pwoer scheme, and usb networking goes up/down as expected.
>> Same mechanism could be used to re-implement an event based neobattery.
>>
>
> Filip,
>
> does this mean the 2.6.28 based system detects usb cable changed, just  
> for
> networking? Or does the battery start charging as well?
>
> Franky

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/




From filip at linux4.be  Thu Apr  2 09:37:32 2009
From: filip at linux4.be (Filip Onkelinx)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 09:37:32 +0200
Subject: [Qt Extended] debian image
In-Reply-To: <60567dcc0904020019g7da81721vd64673104d6abfc7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49D14770.7070206@seznam.cz>
	<jwv4ox8bf9y.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
	<49D3B189.4020105@seznam.cz>
	<jwvfxgs9bre.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
	<60567dcc0904020019g7da81721vd64673104d6abfc7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.urq0suuz5z3zlq@pc-filonk.visysglobal.local>

Hi,

I did a quick try of Radek's image on a ?SD last night, and alltough I  
have no 'hard-figures', it seemed to be considerably slower to me as well  
compared to my home-brewn SD.
Not sure what/why it is slower: kernel, QtE binaries or other...

voicenotes: could it be that the 'mic' is muted? Maybe try using the alsa  
files from another image (radek's?)

Cheers,

Filip.

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 09:19:59 +0200, Franky Van Liedekerke  
<liedekef at telenet.be> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> yesterday evening I've tried the debian image (converted to  
> uimage+jffs2),
> but it seems very slow compared to a fso based image. Also the voicenotes
> *seems* to be recording, but not playing :-)
> So I've tried an fso-nox image+andy-tracking kernel, and that just worked
> out of the box (but again not the voicenotes). Although there's an issue
> with bluetoothd not finding HAL (any tips are appreciated), and probably
> because of that, bluetooth doesn't work in QtExtended as well ... it  
> needs
> further investigation.
> So this evening I'll play a bit with that image (I need to add atd from
> angstrom to get the alarms to work probably) and see about the bluetooth
> thingie.
>
> Can anybody explain to me what the gstreamer engine does for qtextended?  
> It
> seems the compile is ok, I've got sound, but no mp3 support yet (so for
> that: do I just need extra gstreamer plugins or the mp3 libmad patch?)
>
> Franky
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 2:23 AM, Stefan Monnier  
> <monnier at iro.umontreal.ca>wrote:
>
>> > Yes, i was thinking exactly the same. There are some things that
>> > have to be solved cleanly before this can be done. E.g. the udev
>> > rule for GSM modem. I have described it in my howto.
>>
>> The udev rule seems easy to fix: rather than put it in
>> /media/card/etc/udev/rules.d/50-udev.rules, put it in a new file
>> /media/card/etc/udev/rules.d/50-qtextended.rules
>>
>>
>>        Stefan
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>>

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/




From kimaidou at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 09:45:54 2009
From: kimaidou at gmail.com (kimaidou)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 09:45:54 +0200
Subject: [openBmap] Version 0.2.0 released of the GSM cell, GPS logger
In-Reply-To: <49D1325A.6060804@free.fr>
References: <49D1325A.6060804@free.fr>
Message-ID: <40cd9ce40904020045j45c07b59te69b044933373cbc@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

Thanks a lot for this new version. I would like to know if you could create
a new page in opkg.org for easily follow, install and upgrade it !

Thanks in advance

Kimaidou

2009/3/30 Onen <onen.om at free.fr>

> Hello,
>
> the new version of the logger is out. This is a major step: you can now
> do the complete process (log, upload, delete processed logs)
> graphically! No need to edit any file.
>
> WHAT'S NEW SINCE 0.1?
> * Now displays GSM data at startup. No need to wait for network
>   update.
> * Before upload, login/password graphical interface added.
> * After upload, asks about deleting all processed log files.
> * Requests CPU ressource to prevent phone from going to suspend (this
> depends on the configuration of the phone...).
> * Do not log if a call is ongoing. The reasons are:
>  - when in a call org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.GetStatus()
>    returns a lower signal strength.
>  - org.freesmartphone.GSM.Monitor.GetNeighbourCellInformation()
>    returns garbage when in a call.
> * Software id and version added in generated logs
>
> Another major point is the "beta" support of neighbour cells logging.
> Following comments made on this list (thanks Yorick, Olivier and Helge
> and sorry if I forget others), I have changed my mind and the code is
> ready in this release. But deactivated. The reasons are:
>  - we need to clarify the meaning of some fields
>  - we need to clarify if there is no risk of mixing cells and
>    MCC/MNC at the borders.
> The idea will be to keep track if a logged cell was "serving", or
> "neighbour". This will let us experiment with ways of building coverage
> areas, and specify algorithms.
>
> Thanks Stefan, the application is already in the feeds:
>
> http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/unstable/armv4t/openbmap-logger_0.2.0-r1_armv4t.ipk
> => opkg install/upgrade openbmap-logger
>
> Ipk, tar, git can be found at:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=218065&package_id=310952
> http://myposition.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=myposition
>
> Following is a part of the README. You will find a summary of the
> project, and the manual with some details about the configuration file
> if you want total control of your application.
>
> Onen
>
>
> SUMMARY:
> OpenBmap is a free and open map of wireless communicating objects
> (e.g. cellular antenna, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth). It provides tools to
> mutualize data, create and access this map.
> The purpose of this software is to log GSM data, together with
> GPS coordinate. This data are sent to the website (www.openbmap.org),
> in order to build a free database. In order to keep a high quality
> of data, we store GPS quality, speed, GSM signal strength, etc...
> Possible use of this database:
> * get your location based on the current GSM cell you are connected to.
> (GPS needs extra power to function, GSM is always on. Less precise
> than GPS, but enough for a lot of usages. Instant location, GPS
> needs time to get a fix.)
> * speed up GPS first time to fix by providing the location based
> on GSM data
> * geolocate your photos when taken
> * get a map of GSM coverage
> * get a map of 2, 2.5, 3G coverage (not yet implemented)
> * ...
>
> What you should expect:
> * The complete process is done through graphical interface.
> * Requests CPU ressource to prevent phone from going to suspend (this
> depends on the configuration of the phone...).
> * generation of logs (no log during a call)
> * Graphical window to enter login/password before upload (possibility
> to cancel upload).
> * upload of logs
> * Graphical window proposing to delete all logs already processed.
>
> MANUAL:
> Interface is straightforward.
>
> Note: The GPS is started as soon as the application is launched.
> And it keeps running if the application is logging or not. This
> is to prevent losing the GPS position if you pause your logging.
> You have to exit the application in order to stop the GPS.
>
> * A button to start generating logs. Values will be displayed when
> valid. Logs are stored under HOME/.openBmap/Logs by default.
>
> * A button to stop generating logs.
>
> * A button to upload.
> This pops a window up, which displays the current login/password.
> Please modify it before pressing 'ok' button if needed. You can
> cancel upload by pressing 'cancel'.
>
> If you press 'ok', this will block the interface until every log
> has been uploaded. This means that if you do not have Internet
> connection up and running, the GUI will be frozen until timeout of
> the upload part.
>
> After successful upload, the logs are moved to
> HOME/.openBmap/Processed_logs by default.
>
> When upload is finished, the result is first displayed (how many logs
> have been uploaded out of how many available).
> Then a popup window will propose you to delete all (this includes
> possible logs from previous upload) the processed logs (located in
> HOME/.openBmap/Processed_logs by default).
>
> Warning: you should create an account on realtimeblog.free.fr
> website, and fill a correct login/password in the popup window
> displayed before upload works.
>
> * A button to exit (if logger is active, it will first stop it
> cleanly, and then exit).
>
> Config file and application log are located under HOME/.openBmap
> directory by default.
>
> You can modify values in the config files (by editing it). This
> way you can have a fine grained control of your logger:
> - change the locations of logs
> 'openbmap logs directory name', 'openbmap uploaded logs directory name'
> - change the rate of logging
> openbmap logger default scanning speed (in sec.) = 10
> - set a minimal speed for logging
> gps minimal speed for logging (km/h) = 0
> - set a maximal speed for logging
> gps maximal speed for logging (km/h) = 150
> - please do not modify other values, this could prevent the
> logger from working correctly.
>
> If you break your configuration file, just exit the application.
> Delete the configuration file (by default: HOME/.openBmap/openBmap.conf).
> Launch the application. The configuration file, if not found is
> generated with default values.
>
> KNOWN BUGS:
> * when you are generating logs, and you press 'Stop' button.
>   A popup window let you know you should wait for the logger to
>   finish stopping. Under FSO M5, if you press the power
>   button, the phone suspends. You press it again it wakes up.
>   Nevertheless the GUI is frozen. You will have to kill the
>   process.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
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From liedekef at telenet.be  Thu Apr  2 09:48:14 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 09:48:14 +0200
Subject: [QT Extended Improved] patch:
	0001-using-uevent-to-get-kernel-notifications-for-usb-cable-changed.txt
In-Reply-To: <op.urq0h1r55z3zlq@pc-filonk.visysglobal.local>
References: <op.uro3u9x75z3zlq@pc-filonk.visysglobal.local>
	<60567dcc0904020022q2390e826n4aa0d23dc8d2495f@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.urq0h1r55z3zlq@pc-filonk.visysglobal.local>
Message-ID: <60567dcc0904020048k319d4d77ybd1c30ace6214911@mail.gmail.com>

Hmm ... I'm pretty sure I saw my phone suspending while connected ... I will
test this more.

F.


On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Filip Onkelinx <filip at linux4.be> wrote:

> Franky,
>
> battery starts charging as well, cableChanged is also being used for
> changing powermanagment scheme.
>
> F.
>
> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 09:22:33 +0200, Franky Van Liedekerke
> <liedekef at telenet.be> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Filip Onkelinx <filip at linux4.be> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> attached is a patch to use uevent to get kernel notifications for
> >> 'usb-cable-changed' in QtExtended on recent kernels (>=2.6.28).
> >> On 'older' kernels (<2.6.28), this information was comming in trough
> >> /dev/input/event4 but this is no longer working (there is a ticket for
> >> this
> >> at https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2254 ).
> >> With this patch my FR switches correctly from battery power savings
> >> scheme
> >> to online pwoer scheme, and usb networking goes up/down as expected.
> >> Same mechanism could be used to re-implement an event based neobattery.
> >>
> >
> > Filip,
> >
> > does this mean the 2.6.28 based system detects usb cable changed, just
> > for
> > networking? Or does the battery start charging as well?
> >
> > Franky
>
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
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From liedekef at telenet.be  Thu Apr  2 09:52:45 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 09:52:45 +0200
Subject: [Qt Extended] debian image
In-Reply-To: <op.urq0suuz5z3zlq@pc-filonk.visysglobal.local>
References: <49D14770.7070206@seznam.cz>
	<jwv4ox8bf9y.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
	<49D3B189.4020105@seznam.cz>
	<jwvfxgs9bre.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
	<60567dcc0904020019g7da81721vd64673104d6abfc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.urq0suuz5z3zlq@pc-filonk.visysglobal.local>
Message-ID: <60567dcc0904020052k1448dc61ied5036c5625479cd@mail.gmail.com>

Well, when using Radek's image, I saw a progress in seconds, but playing
didn't work (even when going via mediaplayer itself).
In the fso image, I hear a "click" when starting recording, but no progress
in seconds, and not playable as well. So ... needs investigating :-)
I need to test lots of stuff:

- alarms (using atd from angstrom, since no newer package exists), normal +
when suspended
- wake up when receiving sms
- call + echo check
- missed call bug
- duplicate sms thing
- bluetooth debug
- voice notes
- usb cable handling for power charging ...

Franky

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Filip Onkelinx <filip at linux4.be> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I did a quick try of Radek's image on a ?SD last night, and alltough I
> have no 'hard-figures', it seemed to be considerably slower to me as well
> compared to my home-brewn SD.
> Not sure what/why it is slower: kernel, QtE binaries or other...
>
> voicenotes: could it be that the 'mic' is muted? Maybe try using the alsa
> files from another image (radek's?)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Filip.
>
> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 09:19:59 +0200, Franky Van Liedekerke
> <liedekef at telenet.be> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > yesterday evening I've tried the debian image (converted to
> > uimage+jffs2),
> > but it seems very slow compared to a fso based image. Also the voicenotes
> > *seems* to be recording, but not playing :-)
> > So I've tried an fso-nox image+andy-tracking kernel, and that just worked
> > out of the box (but again not the voicenotes). Although there's an issue
> > with bluetoothd not finding HAL (any tips are appreciated), and probably
> > because of that, bluetooth doesn't work in QtExtended as well ... it
> > needs
> > further investigation.
> > So this evening I'll play a bit with that image (I need to add atd from
> > angstrom to get the alarms to work probably) and see about the bluetooth
> > thingie.
> >
> > Can anybody explain to me what the gstreamer engine does for qtextended?
> > It
> > seems the compile is ok, I've got sound, but no mp3 support yet (so for
> > that: do I just need extra gstreamer plugins or the mp3 libmad patch?)
> >
> > Franky
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 2:23 AM, Stefan Monnier
> > <monnier at iro.umontreal.ca>wrote:
> >
> >> > Yes, i was thinking exactly the same. There are some things that
> >> > have to be solved cleanly before this can be done. E.g. the udev
> >> > rule for GSM modem. I have described it in my howto.
> >>
> >> The udev rule seems easy to fix: rather than put it in
> >> /media/card/etc/udev/rules.d/50-udev.rules, put it in a new file
> >> /media/card/etc/udev/rules.d/50-qtextended.rules
> >>
> >>
> >>        Stefan
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Openmoko community mailing list
> >> community at lists.openmoko.org
> >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >>
> >>
>
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
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From steve at openmoko.com  Thu Apr  2 09:54:14 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 00:54:14 -0700
Subject: buzz fix
In-Reply-To: <1238527520.19465.4.camel@peter-laptop>
References: <20090111115507.GA9568@rebelion.Sisis.de>	<200901271237.56087.openmoko@mazikeen.demon.co.uk>	<m2ocxslkx3.fsf@home.pavel.comp>	<200903040909.51652.joerg@openmoko.org>
	<1238527520.19465.4.camel@peter-laptop>
Message-ID: <49D46F26.1090801@openmoko.com>

looks like the wire is too long. See the photo in the SOP.
Also, looks like he didnt remove the rubber around the mic before 
working on it. Just a guess. Joerg will respond I'm sure.



Peter Stumm wrote:
> Hello, 
> a good friend does the buzz fix for me, but after doing that there is
> still a buzz, think it's a little bit quiter.
> here are a few pictures after the buzz
> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/845779/neo1.JPG
> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/845779/neo2.JPG
> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/845779/neo3.JPG
> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/845779/neo4.JPG
> 
> can you say me whats wrong?
> 
> thanks 
> peter
> 
> Am Mittwoch, den 04.03.2009, 09:09 +0100 schrieb Joerg Reisenweber:
>> Am Di  27. Januar 2009 schrieb Paul Fertser:
>>> Al Johnson <openmoko at mazikeen.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>>> On Monday 26 January 2009, Christoph Siegenthaler wrote:
>>>>> are there any updates from resellers, FIC or any half-official
>>>>> DIY-tutorials on the hardware problems, i.e. the buzzing?
>>>> This appears to have benefited from feedback regarding capacitor types 
>> from 
>>>> the few people so far to have attempted the mod, 
>>> The feedback is that: you can use any cap, including tantalum. :)
>>>
>>>> but more feedback is requested. The lack of feedback from people
>>>> trying it may be why it hasn't yet made it past release candidate
>>>> stage.
>>> No more feedback is really needed. Everyone who performed the rework
>>> confirmed that it eliminates the buzz. No single negative report. And
>>> i guess at least 10-20 people have already tried the rework. So, the
>>> reason that no reseller is doing it yet is probably due to
>>> communication/business issues rather than technical.
>>
>> Exactly.
>> I'm not in charge any more to push this fix, but to me it seems we really 
>> don't need to quantify "how much it improves" buzz-issue.
>> The cause and ways to creep in of buzz are well understood by now by some guys 
>> at least (and NO it's NOT the mic catching RF near antenna, it's pin4 of 
>> hs-jack), the bigC-rework is evidently (based on empiric and EE basics) 
>> eliminating the ripple we see on MICBIAS, and a gsmhandset.state file 
>> correctly using differential input mode (control.63 value "Mic 2") won't 
>> break audio function from unfixed to buzzfixed FR.
>> Also we don't need any sophisticated test procedure, as
>> * all devices are prone to buzz issue, so we don't need to prove there is buzz 
>> before fix
>> * the big-C rework will either kill the buzz or you find you did sth wrong and 
>> mic stops to work. So any engineer doing the actual fix doesn't need any 
>> sophisticated "fix succeeded" test more complicated than that involved in 
>> replacing a lightbulb. Test call -> works -> fine.
>>
>> cheers
>> jOERG
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



From psonek2 at seznam.cz  Thu Apr  2 09:57:58 2009
From: psonek2 at seznam.cz (Radek Polak)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 09:57:58 +0200
Subject: [QT Extended Improved] patch:
	0001-using-uevent-to-get-kernel-notifications-for-usb-cable-changed.txt
In-Reply-To: <60567dcc0904020048k319d4d77ybd1c30ace6214911@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.uro3u9x75z3zlq@pc-filonk.visysglobal.local>	<60567dcc0904020022q2390e826n4aa0d23dc8d2495f@mail.gmail.com>	<op.urq0h1r55z3zlq@pc-filonk.visysglobal.local>
	<60567dcc0904020048k319d4d77ybd1c30ace6214911@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D47006.8020509@seznam.cz>

Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:

> Hmm ... I'm pretty sure I saw my phone suspending while connected ... I 
> will test this more.
> 
> F.

Filip's patch fixes this for me. I have tested it quite thoroughly. But
it's not included in my image yet.

Radek



From steve at openmoko.com  Thu Apr  2 10:02:51 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 01:02:51 -0700
Subject: "$299 ESC San Jose limited time Special!" ?
In-Reply-To: <bff0f0570904010747g48f280ffrbda501abb966cd27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <958244340904010700q4dc1cac1vae3884d44e14edd7@mail.gmail.com>
	<bff0f0570904010747g48f280ffrbda501abb966cd27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D4712B.7070301@openmoko.com>

  The phones are indeed A6. The sale is happening for a limited time
  Shipped from the US Only.  So, it's mostly 850Mhz phones.



C?dric Berger wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 16:00, Joseph Reeves <iknowjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I've not seen any mention of this on the lists, but it all looks very cheap!
>>
>> http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner
>>
>> # GSM 850 ( Promotion, Extras: pouch and headset x 1) $299.00 USD
>> # GSM 900-10 Pack $2,690.00 USD
>> # GSM 850-10 Pack $2,690.00 USD
>>
>> Not an April Fools thing is it?
> 
> This must be in-stock phones, and as next ones (GTA2 A7) should have
> some buzz fix already done at factory, these "old" ones will loose
> value I would say...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



From afridi.waqar at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 10:05:40 2009
From: afridi.waqar at gmail.com (waqar afridi)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 13:05:40 +0500
Subject: Need Missing File
Message-ID: <78aaeffc0904020105tbcf6f06yf0e521be3d40bdb4@mail.gmail.com>

Hello every

I m try to compile the SELinux on Openmoko. When I try to by running the
command*

make relabel*

but it complains about a missing file (dependency problem) *setfiles*. can
some body tell me where can i download this file or the source code of
selinux-openmoko.
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From steve at openmoko.com  Thu Apr  2 10:11:46 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 01:11:46 -0700
Subject: GSM buzz-fix party in Braunschweig, Germany
In-Reply-To: <49D372C5.9030206@users.sourceforge.net>
References: <20090315184206.28bd686d@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>	<841vsy3c3w.fsf@sauna.l.org>	<20090401145229.09da3ec7@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<49D372C5.9030206@users.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <49D47342.2010600@openmoko.com>

I'm working with the resellers to come with a program to fix the stock.
A couple have offered to work with me and we are ironing out the
details for a program for all the resellers. Joerg, myself and
others have been at this problem since early december.
In parallel I'm looking for innovative and community driven ways to
fix the phones in people's hands. Typically, I'm a impatient person,
so I understand and appreciate and would never grant others the patience 
they have granted me.

Pander wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> For me from centre of the Netherlands it is 413 km, 4 hours by car.
> 
> I have been of the list for a while. When is the exact date for this fix
> party?
> 
> Any one else from the Netherlands or Belgium thinking about going there
> by car? Perhaps car pulling is an option. Four OpenMoko geeks will have
> plenty to talk about in 4 hours of driving ;) Possibly we could bring
> even more devices to fix.
> 
> What about the resellers, are they having their stock fixed?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Pander
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



From psonek2 at seznam.cz  Thu Apr  2 10:17:23 2009
From: psonek2 at seznam.cz (Radek Polak)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 10:17:23 +0200
Subject: Solar panel on Freerunner back cover
Message-ID: <49D47493.1080804@seznam.cz>

Hi,
yesterday i found on internet company that is selling small
solar panel pieces. They are quite cheap and my idea is to
put them on back cover of Freerunner so that they can
improve battery life.

Here [1] is link to web page with informations about panels.

It's only in czech, so i can translate some basic paramteres:

Available sizes in mm:
51,2?51,2	51,2?25,6	51,2?20,4	51,2?17,1	51,2?14,6	51,2?11,0	51,2?10,5 
29,4?12,3	25,0?12,3

Volage (no-load):
0,57V for all variants

Current:
700	350	280	230	200	180	140	90	70

I'd like to have 7 pieces. Those could do 7*0.57=3.99V and
180uA current.

Would it be possible to attach output from this solar panel
straight to battery connector? Do you think that this can
work?

Thanks

Radek


[1] 
http://www.solartec.cz/cs/vyrobky-a-sluzby/technicke-udaje/sady-rezu.html



From ed at kapitein.org  Thu Apr  2 10:26:46 2009
From: ed at kapitein.org (Ed Kapitein)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 10:26:46 +0200
Subject: Solar panel on Freerunner back cover
In-Reply-To: <49D47493.1080804@seznam.cz>
References: <49D47493.1080804@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <1238660806.23961.2.camel@lp-00079.dt01.tno.nl>

Hi Radek,

I was looking for a GPS bluetooth mouse with solar pannels for longer
navigating.
It seems that it is hardly worth the effort, it will give you a few
precent longer uptime and time to full charge would be like days.

Just my 2 cents.

Kind regards,

Ed

On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 10:17 +0200, Radek Polak wrote:
> Hi,
> yesterday i found on internet company that is selling small
> solar panel pieces. They are quite cheap and my idea is to
> put them on back cover of Freerunner so that they can
> improve battery life.
> 
> Here [1] is link to web page with informations about panels.
> 
> It's only in czech, so i can translate some basic paramteres:
> 
> Available sizes in mm:
> 51,2?51,2	51,2?25,6	51,2?20,4	51,2?17,1	51,2?14,6	51,2?11,0	51,2?10,5 
> 29,4?12,3	25,0?12,3
> 
> Volage (no-load):
> 0,57V for all variants
> 
> Current:
> 700	350	280	230	200	180	140	90	70
> 
> I'd like to have 7 pieces. Those could do 7*0.57=3.99V and
> 180uA current.
> 
> Would it be possible to attach output from this solar panel
> straight to battery connector? Do you think that this can
> work?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Radek
> 
> 
> [1] 
> http://www.solartec.cz/cs/vyrobky-a-sluzby/technicke-udaje/sady-rezu.html
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 




From kimaidou at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 10:30:31 2009
From: kimaidou at gmail.com (kimaidou)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 10:30:31 +0200
Subject: Transparent keyboard in illume
In-Reply-To: <49B8D5AE.3090409@om.ksp.sk>
References: <49B41F29.30802@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40903081249t317865bbm70fae9da4ea41991@mail.gmail.com>
	<26fea52c0903081316p74ff3241l184b12ff35c71eb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<ffce06340903081339s11233f44scf8396e0cc9f386f@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B42E4C.7050503@om.ksp.sk> <49B58C91.3020404@strapp.co.uk>
	<49B634B7.8020700@om.ksp.sk>
	<1e3adca60903101421i7898b9e1s468c85b82a25682e@mail.gmail.com>
	<1e3adca60903120006q38f294a3hf553b10ab04cbe41@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B8D5AE.3090409@om.ksp.sk>
Message-ID: <40cd9ce40904020130l6a068189j6b572c0f9ce15fd@mail.gmail.com>

Hi lists,

I would like to know if there were some progress on easily installing the
transparent keyboard (qwo or anyone else) on SHR distribution.
I think the SHR distro could really benefit on this !

Thanks for any news

Kimaidou

2009/3/12 Richard Kralovic <riso at om.ksp.sk>

> > ... so it's working in 2008.12 - I can supply my patched build of
> > illume.ipk if anyone wants it - the only problem being the qtopia
>
> Great :-). If you wish, send it to me and I can add it to my webpage...
>
> > "Options" and "Back" buttons etc attached to the display bottom always
> > show on top of...
>
> I know next to nothing about illume internals, but I'd try to change the
> parameter of e_border_layer_set in illume.c from 100 to something higher.
>
> > Now gotta figure out how to prevent that, or bring qwo even further
> > forward...
>
> The illume patches are really just nasty hacks, I'd love to have some
> neat patch on illume that automatically checks the X11 atoms of the
> keyboard and adjusts its behaviour according to that. With that, we
> might be able to persuade the SHR guys (or even Raster) to accept it.
> But I do not have much time for that right now :-(.
>
> Greets
>        Richard
>
>
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community at lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
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From timo.lindfors at iki.fi  Thu Apr  2 10:32:24 2009
From: timo.lindfors at iki.fi (Timo Juhani Lindfors)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:32:24 +0300
Subject: Solar panel on Freerunner back cover
In-Reply-To: <49D47493.1080804@seznam.cz> (Radek Polak's message of "Thu, 02
	Apr 2009 10:17:23 +0200")
References: <49D47493.1080804@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <84vdpnqwvb.fsf@sauna.l.org>

Radek Polak <psonek2 at seznam.cz> writes:
> Would it be possible to attach output from this solar panel
> straight to battery connector? Do you think that this can
> work?

Make it 5V, use a regulator and the usb port just to be on the safe
side? If you keep the phone in your pocket the solar panel won't help
much anyway so external solar panel should be ok, right (it can also
be much larger that way)?

-Timo



From hns at computer.org  Thu Apr  2 10:56:23 2009
From: hns at computer.org (Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 10:56:23 +0200
Subject: IPhoneOS on Freerunner
Message-ID: <056ED8DF-6D07-459F-A27A-B5922AC35F6D@computer.org>

Have you seen yesterday?

http://openmoko-fr.org/wiki/index.php/IPhoneOS_on_Freerunner

Well, it is/was a good April joke.

But this one isn't.

http://www.quantum-step.com/wiki.php?page=About
http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/gallery/menu.php?gallery=members&album_id=16



From ranma+openmoko at tdiedrich.de  Thu Apr  2 11:18:37 2009
From: ranma+openmoko at tdiedrich.de (Tobias Diedrich)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 11:18:37 +0200
Subject: Solar panel on Freerunner back cover
In-Reply-To: <49D47493.1080804@seznam.cz>
References: <49D47493.1080804@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20090402091837.GA7808@yamamaya.is-a-geek.org>

Radek Polak wrote:
> I'd like to have 7 pieces. Those could do 7*0.57=3.99V and
> 180uA current.
> 
> Would it be possible to attach output from this solar panel
> straight to battery connector? Do you think that this can
> work?

You'd need at least an additional diode (preferably schottky for low
drop), to protect against discharging via the panels when the
voltage drops below battery voltage.  Other than that, it should be
fine, since the battery has a built-in overcharge protection (At
least the official Freerunner battery has one).

-- 
Tobias						PGP: http://9ac7e0bc.uguu.de



From seba.dos1 at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 11:53:21 2009
From: seba.dos1 at gmail.com (Johny Tenfinger)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 11:53:21 +0200
Subject: Transparent keyboard in illume
In-Reply-To: <40cd9ce40904020130l6a068189j6b572c0f9ce15fd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49B41F29.30802@om.ksp.sk>
	<26fea52c0903081316p74ff3241l184b12ff35c71eb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<ffce06340903081339s11233f44scf8396e0cc9f386f@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B42E4C.7050503@om.ksp.sk> <49B58C91.3020404@strapp.co.uk>
	<49B634B7.8020700@om.ksp.sk>
	<1e3adca60903101421i7898b9e1s468c85b82a25682e@mail.gmail.com>
	<1e3adca60903120006q38f294a3hf553b10ab04cbe41@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B8D5AE.3090409@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904020130l6a068189j6b572c0f9ce15fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c30e08170904020253g51e6b0f8v4fbda09f31696ded@mail.gmail.com>

SHR has patch for Xglamo about Composite extension included, so you
musn't take care about that. Only install what you want ;)

2009/4/2, kimaidou <kimaidou at gmail.com>:
> Hi lists,
>
> I would like to know if there were some progress on easily installing the
> transparent keyboard (qwo or anyone else) on SHR distribution.
> I think the SHR distro could really benefit on this !
>
> Thanks for any news
>
> Kimaidou
>
> 2009/3/12 Richard Kralovic <riso at om.ksp.sk>
>
>> > ... so it's working in 2008.12 - I can supply my patched build of
>> > illume.ipk if anyone wants it - the only problem being the qtopia
>>
>> Great :-). If you wish, send it to me and I can add it to my webpage...
>>
>> > "Options" and "Back" buttons etc attached to the display bottom always
>> > show on top of...
>>
>> I know next to nothing about illume internals, but I'd try to change the
>> parameter of e_border_layer_set in illume.c from 100 to something higher.
>>
>> > Now gotta figure out how to prevent that, or bring qwo even further
>> > forward...
>>
>> The illume patches are really just nasty hacks, I'd love to have some
>> neat patch on illume that automatically checks the X11 atoms of the
>> keyboard and adjusts its behaviour according to that. With that, we
>> might be able to persuade the SHR guys (or even Raster) to accept it.
>> But I do not have much time for that right now :-(.
>>
>> Greets
>>        Richard
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Rich
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Openmoko community mailing list
>> > community at lists.openmoko.org
>> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>



From kimaidou at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 12:07:54 2009
From: kimaidou at gmail.com (kimaidou)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 12:07:54 +0200
Subject: Transparent keyboard in illume
In-Reply-To: <c30e08170904020253g51e6b0f8v4fbda09f31696ded@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49B41F29.30802@om.ksp.sk>
	<ffce06340903081339s11233f44scf8396e0cc9f386f@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B42E4C.7050503@om.ksp.sk> <49B58C91.3020404@strapp.co.uk>
	<49B634B7.8020700@om.ksp.sk>
	<1e3adca60903101421i7898b9e1s468c85b82a25682e@mail.gmail.com>
	<1e3adca60903120006q38f294a3hf553b10ab04cbe41@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B8D5AE.3090409@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904020130l6a068189j6b572c0f9ce15fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904020253g51e6b0f8v4fbda09f31696ded@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <40cd9ce40904020307x24091ffbl6ea3e6d90f2afff5@mail.gmail.com>

This is great news indeed. Humm...sorry for this, but could you please
reexplain the different steps to install the qwo transparent keyboard on my
SHR ? I am an end user, and it is a bit hard to understand for me. The best
would be to provide an ipk package if possible.

Thanks a lot !

2009/4/2 Johny Tenfinger <seba.dos1 at gmail.com>

> SHR has patch for Xglamo about Composite extension included, so you
> musn't take care about that. Only install what you want ;)
>
> 2009/4/2, kimaidou <kimaidou at gmail.com>:
> > Hi lists,
> >
> > I would like to know if there were some progress on easily installing the
> > transparent keyboard (qwo or anyone else) on SHR distribution.
> > I think the SHR distro could really benefit on this !
> >
> > Thanks for any news
> >
> > Kimaidou
> >
> > 2009/3/12 Richard Kralovic <riso at om.ksp.sk>
> >
> >> > ... so it's working in 2008.12 - I can supply my patched build of
> >> > illume.ipk if anyone wants it - the only problem being the qtopia
> >>
> >> Great :-). If you wish, send it to me and I can add it to my webpage...
> >>
> >> > "Options" and "Back" buttons etc attached to the display bottom always
> >> > show on top of...
> >>
> >> I know next to nothing about illume internals, but I'd try to change the
> >> parameter of e_border_layer_set in illume.c from 100 to something
> higher.
> >>
> >> > Now gotta figure out how to prevent that, or bring qwo even further
> >> > forward...
> >>
> >> The illume patches are really just nasty hacks, I'd love to have some
> >> neat patch on illume that automatically checks the X11 atoms of the
> >> keyboard and adjusts its behaviour according to that. With that, we
> >> might be able to persuade the SHR guys (or even Raster) to accept it.
> >> But I do not have much time for that right now :-(.
> >>
> >> Greets
> >>        Richard
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Rich
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Openmoko community mailing list
> >> > community at lists.openmoko.org
> >> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Openmoko community mailing list
> >> community at lists.openmoko.org
> >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
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From ivanshirokoff at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 13:37:06 2009
From: ivanshirokoff at gmail.com (ivanshirokoff at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 15:37:06 +0400
Subject: IPhoneOS on Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <056ED8DF-6D07-459F-A27A-B5922AC35F6D@computer.org>
References: <056ED8DF-6D07-459F-A27A-B5922AC35F6D@computer.org>
Message-ID: <49D4A362.5020301@gmail.com>

Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller ?????:
> Have you seen yesterday?
>
> http://openmoko-fr.org/wiki/index.php/IPhoneOS_on_Freerunner
>
> Well, it is/was a good April joke.
>
> But this one isn't.
>   
Have you ckecked it out?
> http://www.quantum-step.com/wiki.php?page=About
> http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/gallery/menu.php?gallery=members&album_id=16
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>   




From ezuall at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 13:53:39 2009
From: ezuall at gmail.com (ezuall)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 04:53:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Learning with flashcards - granule
In-Reply-To: <49D316E3.7050301@users.sourceforge.net>
References: <49D251D0.9060004@users.sourceforge.net>
	<1238570219084-2567548.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<49D316E3.7050301@users.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <1238673219548-2574725.post@n2.nabble.com>


Hi there,

I found it, but I haven't been able to test it on my Freerunner, because I'm
testing android on it at the moment.  You can grab it here in the next 24
hours (remember that I did warn you about the changes not being pretty):

http://pastebin.com/d3b742c7f

The format for the card files are as follows:
<word/question> : <answer> : <pronunciation/other notes>

Let me know how it goes.
ezuall

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Johan Badenhorst <ezuall at gmail.com> wrote:

> Pander,
>
> I'll have to have a dig for the code, it won't be pretty, as I stitched it
> together for a quick overview of Italian before a trip last year.  I don't
> know if the Japanese character set is supported.
>
> I'll send it through as soon as I find it, may be 24 hours though
> ezuall
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Pander-2 (via Nabble) <
> ml-user+35848-1247512972 at n2.nabble.com<ml-user%2B35848-1247512972 at n2.nabble.com>
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi Ezuall,
>>
>> Do you still have the code or the changes you applied? Could you send
>> them to me?
>>
>> By the way, which language was it? If it is Japanese, I'm also
>> interested in the data files.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Pander
>>
>> ezuall wrote:
>> > Hi there,
>> >
>> > Last year I used PyFlash, but I'm not sure which distribution I was
>> running at that time.  I know it was easy to get it running, only a few
>> chages were necesarry.  I was using it for learning language at the time, so
>> I added a line for pronunciation as well, which worked better in landscape
>> mode for learning phrases.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> > ezuall
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at ...<http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=2567597&i=0>
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>  This email is a reply to your post @
>> http://n2.nabble.com/Learning-with-flashcards---granule-tp2564322p2567597.html
>> You can reply by email or by visting the link above.
>>
>>
>

-- 
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Learning-with-flashcards---granule-tp2564322p2574725.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




From rask at sygehus.dk  Thu Apr  2 14:51:32 2009
From: rask at sygehus.dk (Rask Ingemann Lambertsen)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 14:51:32 +0200
Subject: Solar panel on Freerunner back cover
In-Reply-To: <49D47493.1080804@seznam.cz>
References: <49D47493.1080804@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20090402125132.GP27350@sygehus.dk>

On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 10:17:23AM +0200, Radek Polak wrote:

> I'd like to have 7 pieces. Those could do 7*0.57=3.99V and
> 180uA current.

   Hopefully that's 180 mA.

> Would it be possible to attach output from this solar panel
> straight to battery connector? Do you think that this can
> work?

   You'd want a diode in there to prevent the charger from "charging" your
solar panels.

   Alternatively, if you're good with a soldering iron, you could try to use
the unused adapter input of the PCF50633. Please see figure 4 and/or figure
38 in the PCF50633 user manual. The adapter input is not used on the
Freerunner.

   You might want to ask questions like this on the hardware list.

-- 
Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year



From pander at users.sourceforge.net  Thu Apr  2 15:42:44 2009
From: pander at users.sourceforge.net (Pander)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 15:42:44 +0200
Subject: Illume keyboard alternatives (to be default in distro?)
Message-ID: <49D4C0D4.5090501@users.sourceforge.net>

Hi all,

At the moment some alternatives exist for the default Illume keyboards, see:
- illume-keyboards-default-alt http://www.opkg.org/package_180.html
- illume-keyboards-numeric-alt http://www.opkg.org/package_106.html
- illume-keyboards-browse http://www.opkg.org/package_144.html
All being finger friendly

Also a styles terminal keyboard has been added that will support most of
north-western European languages: illume-keyboards-terminal-dutch-nl
http://www.opkg.org/package_179.html

I hope these can be included in SHR or even the default Illume build
soon. tickets for exist in both SHR and Illume trac but I hope this
posting can also accelerate things a bit.

Currently a post install and pre remove script will automatically hide
the default keyboard for which the installed one is an alternative. Try
them, judge for yourself and provide feedback if they are better than de
default one or where they can be improved.

Regards,

Pander




From dscaini at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 15:42:33 2009
From: dscaini at gmail.com (Davide Scaini)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 15:42:33 +0200
Subject: [SHR] from debian to shr ;-)
In-Reply-To: <18db98c80904011225t575064f8kd158a1ed0f502a12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18db98c80903300157n37155b32g2d767c2ff5bad90d@mail.gmail.com> 
	<18db98c80903300444q2ff1c9a9k685453dc20852ed2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<200903301405.18150.mok@mnet-online.de>
	<18db98c80903300508q28fa385fyd4371628b661f00a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<abaa3a210903310722y3cb0b6eax34683e107c665bc7@mail.gmail.com> 
	<18db98c80904011225t575064f8kd158a1ed0f502a12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18db98c80904020642m2c3a6b0eq8a21ada09e0bcbec@mail.gmail.com>

I upgraded again today, and i got new kernel, but with no sound and no
wifi... is there another way to downgrade or i have to flash the old one?
d

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Davide Scaini <dscaini at gmail.com> wrote:

> Nice! it works, it seems to me that the category Office is compulsory.
> I tried minimo, it's really fast!
> thank you i'll post my impression on this fabulous shr!
> d
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Steven ** <
> montgoss+openmokocommunity at gmail.com<montgoss%2Bopenmokocommunity at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
>> This has happened to me before when Illume didn't like the combination
>> of categories I used.  Copy/paste the categories from a working
>> desktop file and see if that helps.
>>
>> -Steven
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:08 AM, Davide Scaini <dscaini at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > yes, yesterday i tried making new files in the dir you specified, but
>> with
>> > no luck (no new icon appeared)... i'll try again, thanks for your reply!
>> > d
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>
>
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From mok at mnet-online.de  Thu Apr  2 16:35:49 2009
From: mok at mnet-online.de (Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:35:49 +0200
Subject: [SHR] from debian to shr ;-)
In-Reply-To: <18db98c80904020642m2c3a6b0eq8a21ada09e0bcbec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18db98c80903300157n37155b32g2d767c2ff5bad90d@mail.gmail.com>
	<18db98c80904011225t575064f8kd158a1ed0f502a12@mail.gmail.com>
	<18db98c80904020642m2c3a6b0eq8a21ada09e0bcbec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200904021635.49549.mok@mnet-online.de>

Am Donnerstag 02 April 2009 15:42:33 schrieb Davide Scaini:
> I upgraded again today, and i got new kernel, but with no sound and no
> wifi... is there another way to downgrade or i have to flash the old one?
> d
try to open a terminal and execute 'depmod -a'. After that reboot and it 
should all work again.

>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Davide Scaini <dscaini at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Nice! it works, it seems to me that the category Office is compulsory.
> > I tried minimo, it's really fast!
> > thank you i'll post my impression on this fabulous shr!
> > d
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Steven ** <
> > montgoss+openmokocommunity at gmail.com<montgoss%2Bopenmokocommunity at gmail.c
> >om>
> >
> > > wrote:
> >>
> >> This has happened to me before when Illume didn't like the combination
> >> of categories I used.  Copy/paste the categories from a working
> >> desktop file and see if that helps.
> >>
> >> -Steven
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:08 AM, Davide Scaini <dscaini at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > yes, yesterday i tried making new files in the dir you specified, but
> >>
> >> with
> >>
> >> > no luck (no new icon appeared)... i'll try again, thanks for your
> >> > reply! d


Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann




From previdi.roberto at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 16:38:11 2009
From: previdi.roberto at gmail.com (Previdi Roberto)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:38:11 +0200
Subject: zenity package
Message-ID: <aee831ab0904020738q47881850t857595479d50cbc6@mail.gmail.com>

I have uploaded the zenity package at

http://www.opkg.org/package_181.html

please let me know if you have dependency problems, i'll try to
publish all the needed libraries.

roby



From mertensb.mazda at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 16:57:12 2009
From: mertensb.mazda at gmail.com (Bram Mertens)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:57:12 +0200
Subject: "$299 ESC San Jose limited time Special!" ?
In-Reply-To: <958244340904010758i404170r3944072b70f4ba12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <958244340904010700q4dc1cac1vae3884d44e14edd7@mail.gmail.com>
	<bff0f0570904010747g48f280ffrbda501abb966cd27@mail.gmail.com>
	<958244340904010758i404170r3944072b70f4ba12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4f1666380904020757s120aa292kaa4552448d654d1f@mail.gmail.com>

Joseph

I too got a FR from kd85 and I'm impressed with the service.

Regards

Bram

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Joseph Reeves <iknowjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
> That would make sense...
>
> After a bit of googling for "belgium openmoko" (a perfectly normal
> search term, honest...) I found this reseller that I'd never seen
> before:
>
> https://kd85.com/openmoko.html
>
> Seems to have taken delivery of 180/200:
>
> http://openmoko.kd85.com/images/
>
> and is selling them on at a very good price, has been doing so since
> November last year. Openmoko stock clearance?
>
> Cheers, Joseph
>
>
>
> 2009/4/1 C?dric Berger <cedric.berger74 at gmail.com>:
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 16:00, Joseph Reeves <iknowjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> I've not seen any mention of this on the lists, but it all looks very cheap!
>>>
>>> http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner
>>>
>>> # GSM 850 ( Promotion, Extras: pouch and headset x 1) $299.00 USD
>>> # GSM 900-10 Pack $2,690.00 USD
>>> # GSM 850-10 Pack $2,690.00 USD
>>>
>>> Not an April Fools thing is it?
>>
>> This must be in-stock phones, and as next ones (GTA2 A7) should have
>> some buzz fix already done at factory, these "old" ones will loose
>> value I would say...
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



From www.rzr.online.fr at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 17:10:23 2009
From: www.rzr.online.fr at gmail.com (RzR www.rzr.online.fr)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:10:23 +0200
Subject: IPhoneOS on Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <49D4A362.5020301@gmail.com>
References: <056ED8DF-6D07-459F-A27A-B5922AC35F6D@computer.org>
	<49D4A362.5020301@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78a9ab5d0904020810u54c4aecai53a30c6d59806cac@mail.gmail.com>

2009/4/2 ivanshirokoff at gmail.com <ivanshirokoff at gmail.com>:
> Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller ?????:
>> http://openmoko-fr.org/wiki/index.php/IPhoneOS_on_Freerunner
Hi,

For curious only, here are additional resources :

http://digg.com/programming/IPhone_Linux_Crossplatform_development_not_impossible

-- 
Related Obsession : http://rzr.online.fr/q/openmoko



From ifindleton at videotron.ca  Thu Apr  2 17:17:42 2009
From: ifindleton at videotron.ca (Iain B. FIndleton)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:17:42 -0400
Subject: Graphics Performance
Message-ID: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>

A significant issue for me is the performance of the graphics display on 
the FR. I recall some discussions a while back about making use of the 
XGlamo acceleration features. Has any progress been made here? It 
appears to me that the graphics performance on the FR is poor compared 
to, for instance, the iPhone or iTouch, both of which have slower CPUs. 
When applications running on the FR have their X output routed to a 
machine with accelerated graphics, it is apparent that the FR processor 
can deliver the X events fast enough, but the FR graphics chip interface 
can't keep up.





From ilcristopagano at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 17:53:21 2009
From: ilcristopagano at gmail.com (Biagio Marino)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:53:21 +0200
Subject: [SHR,FSO] Serenity theme for illume
In-Reply-To: <20090329171328.5e4097b4@j.newkirk.us>
References: <20090329171328.5e4097b4@j.newkirk.us>
Message-ID: <1238687601.9159.0.camel@biagio-laptop>

Hello, 
Where is the package of serenity?

Il giorno dom, 29/03/2009 alle 17.13 -0400, Joel Newkirk ha scritto:
> I know it's been a few weeks since I said I was going to try to get
> this out, I apologize.
> 
> I've released what is essentially an alpha test for the Serenity
> theme, therefore named serenity-0.2.  It's incomplete, and may be broken
> in some ways I've not seen yet.  Comments/criticisms/advice on
> structural and functional aspects are welcome, those on visual style
> should be limited to points of inconsistency with the rest of the theme
> or problems like scaling. (specifically, if you don't like the look of
> the theme that's fine, but don't bother with comments like "I don't like
> dark themes" or what-not - the point is to present the theme to those
> interested, and hopefully discuss improvements/fixes, not take a poll
> of the appeal)
> 
> Note that this is just an Illume/Enlightenment theme, NOT Elementary or
> any specific apps.  (like Paroli, Zhone, SHR phonegui-efl)  I'm working
> on those as well, however.
> 
> I use it currently with SHR-unstable and FSO-MS5.1.  You can download
> it from http://newkirk.us/om/serenity-0.2.tar.gz and extract - it opens
> to a folder named serenity, which
> contains usr/share/enlightenment/data/themes/serenity.edj
> and usr/share/enlightenment/data/config/serenity folder holding a few
> files. Copy themes/serenity.edj and the config/serenity folder
> to /usr/share/enlightement, then you can select it in Illume Settings
> under Look->Theme, select 'System' at the top-left to see themes
> installed globally. (/usr/share/...)  NOTE: Wallpaper and Theme, at
> least, may segfault if you are using Software_16 rendering.
> 
> Once I'm satisfied that it doesn't break anything, and all the
> main elements are rethemed, I'll release it as an ipk.  (of course, at
> any time if someone wants to they can extract the serenity.edj file and
> have their way with it - anyone who wants to enhance or alter it
> in any way is free to do so, so long as 'simple' alterations like
> changing some images files retain a credit that the new theme is "based
> on Serenity by Joel Newkirk" - 'major alterations' or extraction of some
> portion of Serenity to use in another theme is fine without attribution)
> 
> 
> 
> What I'm doing:
> 
> Start with Illume and default themes (anything not defined in illume.edj
> will 'fall through' to default.edj, like battery and clock) basically
> renaming illume as serenity, and merge more groups up from default
> (battery, clock, desktop icon, etc) then work to simplify the
> structure (graphically and visually - most significantly, making icons
> two images instead of about eight images each) and shift toward the
> desired visual appearance.  
> 
> Ordinary buttons are translucent white, though on the black default
> background they appear grey. Selected/pressed buttons are an
> 'openmoko-orange' tinted rendition of the same translucent button
> image. Icons are just icon image at rest, are translucent white when
> highlighted by keyboard or mouseover (IE dragging on FR) and
> translucent orange when clicked/tapped.
> 
> Battery applet is the green one from Illume, but narrower.  Tapping it
> displays the battery percentage and time overlay.  GSM applet is the
> same as Illume but colorized red/yellow/green based on signal quality,
> with carrier name above signal. Clock applet is more heavily
> altered, displaying digital time with date below it.  Keyboard has been
> visually/structurally simplified - removing two transparent overlays
> from each key - resulting in (for me at least) significantly faster
> keyboard response.  (and About:Theme is reworked, though you can only
> see it if you enable the 'Start' Top Shelf Gadget, then select
> Enlightenment->Theme from the menu - the animation there is one I've
> used for splash and busy screens as well, but the FR doesn't seem to
> have sufficient horsepower to do that without noticeably slowing load
> times, so I axed them - eventually I may end up with a 'pretty' and a
> 'functional' version of the theme)
> 
> Still to do: Several components (like keyboard suggestion popup,
> tasklist) are still black-text-on-grey-gradient, will be changing to
> light-on-black.  Some visual elements (like left-right arrows on top
> bar) are still IMHO pretty ugly with software_16, which I hope to fix.
> 
> I'm hoping within a couple weeks or so to have finished at least the
> structural/composition changes, resulting in a leaner and faster theme
> that can easily have any/all images altered to result in a completely
> different yet still leaner/faster theme. 
> 
> I've also worked on theming Elementary, Zhone, and SHR's telephony
> GUIs, (just looked at Paroli so far) but haven't yet seen any way to do
> so without overwriting the original files - which of course is a no-no,
> being subject to reversion whenever the package owning them is
> updated.  (Can anyone tell me a 'right' way to override them?  Does it
> require rewritten apps that explicitly support theme selection or
> something?)
> 
> For those unaware, a .edj file is essentially an archive containing one
> or more .edc (text) files that define the theme, any number of lossy or
> lossless compressed images, fonts, and a script to recreate the .edj
> file after extracting and altering it.  So it's possible to extract an
> edje file (with edje_decc) and simply replace the image files for, say,
> the GSM applet, then recompress the theme and run with it.
> 
> 
> 
> In order to get a more responsive 'desktop' it's helpful to:
> 
> Set Application, Top Shelf, Keyboard, and Status Animation Off (under
> Illume Settings: Display->Animation) - Play with the settings and see
> what suits you, I ended up with Top Shelf set to Very Fast and
> everything else off.  These animations don't take much processing
> power, but the wait while the opening/closing is animated can 'feel'
> slow, especially if heavy CPU usage causes it to pull back to only a
> couple frames between the two states.
> 
> Set Software_16 rendering instead of Software (under Illume Settings:
> Advanced->Engine) - As noted many times before, display is faster
> and more responsive, but some graphics look blotchy or jagged with
> software_16. One of the goals of Serenity is circumventing this, such
> as trying to ensure that any imagery (e.g. Top Shelf background) either
> stretches only monochrome portions, or doesn't get stretched at all.
> Hopefully this will change at some point - Software_16 visual
> improvements, Software speed improvements, or maybe upcoming changes to
> xglamo support offering compositing.
> 
> "killall -HUP enlightenment" - this or some other method (like
> move/restore a .desktop file from /usr/share/applications) that forces
> enlightenment/illume to refresh the desktop display once after booting
> has been documented to reduce E's CPU usage dramatically, such as from
> 25% to 3%...  Presumably the root cause of this will at some point be
> fixed upstream and this will no longer have any effect, nor be needed.
> Create a .desktop file with "Exec=killall -HUP enlightenment", mine is
> named 'relite' (as is the console script that does the same)
> 
> j
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
-- 
Biagio Marino <ilcristopagano at gmail.com>
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From onen.om at free.fr  Thu Apr  2 18:09:41 2009
From: onen.om at free.fr (Onen)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:09:41 +0200
Subject: [openBmap] Version 0.2.0 released of the GSM cell, GPS logger
In-Reply-To: <40cd9ce40904020045j45c07b59te69b044933373cbc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49D1325A.6060804@free.fr>
	<40cd9ce40904020045j45c07b59te69b044933373cbc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D4E345.9060907@free.fr>

Hi,

if you have comments and/or suggestions about this release or future 
evolution feel free to contact me!

Well so far what I have tried is to get the package directly into the 
feeds. This is the case for OM:
http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/unstable/armv4t/openbmap-logger_0.2.0-r1_armv4t.ipk

I am talking to SHR guys to get it in their repository too.

But if opkg.org brings something more, I will gladly do this. Thus, 
would you explain me what creating a page on opkg.org would bring more?

Thanks,

Onen

kimaidou wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Thanks a lot for this new version. I would like to know if you could 
> create a new page in opkg.org <http://opkg.org> for easily follow, 
> install and upgrade it !
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Kimaidou
> 
> 2009/3/30 Onen <onen.om <http://onen.om>@free.fr <http://free.fr>>
> 
>     Hello,
> 
>     the new version of the logger is out. This is a major step: you can now
>     do the complete process (log, upload, delete processed logs)
>     graphically! No need to edit any file.
> 
>     WHAT'S NEW SINCE 0.1?
>     




From dscaini at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 18:15:30 2009
From: dscaini at gmail.com (Davide Scaini)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:15:30 +0200
Subject: [SHR] from debian to shr ;-)
In-Reply-To: <200904021635.49549.mok@mnet-online.de>
References: <18db98c80903300157n37155b32g2d767c2ff5bad90d@mail.gmail.com>
	<18db98c80904011225t575064f8kd158a1ed0f502a12@mail.gmail.com>
	<18db98c80904020642m2c3a6b0eq8a21ada09e0bcbec@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904021635.49549.mok@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <18db98c80904020915p76dc8430o4426e0e18eca79d1@mail.gmail.com>

you're right!
[writing from fr now]
it works nicely, thanks!
d
[only some issues with some opkg software, but i'll open a specific thread]

On 4/2/09, Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann <mok at mnet-online.de> wrote:
> Am Donnerstag 02 April 2009 15:42:33 schrieb Davide Scaini:
>> I upgraded again today, and i got new kernel, but with no sound and no
>> wifi... is there another way to downgrade or i have to flash the old one?
>> d
> try to open a terminal and execute 'depmod -a'. After that reboot and it
> should all work again.
>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Davide Scaini <dscaini at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Nice! it works, it seems to me that the category Office is compulsory.
>> > I tried minimo, it's really fast!
>> > thank you i'll post my impression on this fabulous shr!
>> > d
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Steven ** <
>> > montgoss+openmokocommunity at gmail.com<montgoss%2Bopenmokocommunity at gmail.c
>> >om>
>> >
>> > > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> This has happened to me before when Illume didn't like the combination
>> >> of categories I used.  Copy/paste the categories from a working
>> >> desktop file and see if that helps.
>> >>
>> >> -Steven
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:08 AM, Davide Scaini <dscaini at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > yes, yesterday i tried making new files in the dir you specified, but
>> >>
>> >> with
>> >>
>> >> > no luck (no new icon appeared)... i'll try again, thanks for your
>> >> > reply! d
>
>
> Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann
>
>



From mok at mnet-online.de  Thu Apr  2 18:19:20 2009
From: mok at mnet-online.de (Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:19:20 +0200
Subject: [openBmap] Version 0.2.0 released of the GSM cell, GPS logger
In-Reply-To: <49D4E345.9060907@free.fr>
References: <49D1325A.6060804@free.fr>
	<40cd9ce40904020045j45c07b59te69b044933373cbc@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D4E345.9060907@free.fr>
Message-ID: <200904021819.20465.mok@mnet-online.de>

Am Donnerstag 02 April 2009 18:09:41 schrieb Onen:
> Hi,
>
> if you have comments and/or suggestions about this release or future
> evolution feel free to contact me!
>
> Well so far what I have tried is to get the package directly into the
> feeds. This is the case for OM:
> http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/unstable/armv4t/openbmap-logger_0.
>2.0-r1_armv4t.ipk
>
> I am talking to SHR guys to get it in their repository too.
shr-unstable has it now :-)

>
> But if opkg.org brings something more, I will gladly do this. Thus,
> would you explain me what creating a page on opkg.org would bring more?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Onen
>
> kimaidou wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Thanks a lot for this new version. I would like to know if you could
> > create a new page in opkg.org <http://opkg.org> for easily follow,
> > install and upgrade it !
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > Kimaidou
> >
> > 2009/3/30 Onen <onen.om <http://onen.om>@free.fr <http://free.fr>>
> >
> >     Hello,
> >
> >     the new version of the logger is out. This is a major step: you can
> > now do the complete process (log, upload, delete processed logs)
> > graphically! No need to edit any file.
> >
> >     WHAT'S NEW SINCE 0.1?
>

Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann




From ranma+openmoko at tdiedrich.de  Thu Apr  2 18:23:38 2009
From: ranma+openmoko at tdiedrich.de (Tobias Diedrich)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:23:38 +0200
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <20090402162338.GA1522@yamamaya.is-a-geek.org>

Iain B. FIndleton wrote:
> A significant issue for me is the performance of the graphics display on 
> the FR. I recall some discussions a while back about making use of the 
> XGlamo acceleration features. Has any progress been made here? It 
> appears to me that the graphics performance on the FR is poor compared 
> to, for instance, the iPhone or iTouch, both of which have slower CPUs. 
> When applications running on the FR have their X output routed to a 
> machine with accelerated graphics, it is apparent that the FR processor 
> can deliver the X events fast enough, but the FR graphics chip interface 
> can't keep up.

Isn't the glamo supposed to have one (or more?) OpenRISC cores?
It would be nice to have a documented way to upload code to the
core, that way it might be possible to implement the Bling on the
graphics chip directly...
I mean, since OpenRISC has a documented instruction set (unless
they've augmented it) set I'd figure the only thing missing would
 be where to put the code and how to start it...

So, just like with the mpeg4 decoding unit, wouldn't it be
possible for someone with access to the NDA documentation to write
an example program that just shows how to run a simple program (e.g.
bitblt) on the OpenRISC processor?

-- 
Tobias						PGP: http://9ac7e0bc.uguu.de



From justynbutler+openmoko at googlemail.com  Thu Apr  2 18:38:42 2009
From: justynbutler+openmoko at googlemail.com (Justyn Butler)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:38:42 +0100
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
Message-ID: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>

A couple of days ago Sean made a speech at ESC.

For anyone interested it is described here, with a video excerpt:
http://techpulse360.com/2009/03/31/esc09-open-moko-is-the-anti-iphone-runs-google-android-but-still-no-3g/

He talks about the level of freedom the Freerunner offers people
wanting to create a customized phone or those who want a development
phone.

He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying
that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put
in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units).

Justyn.

ps. At this point I'd like to say that I'd seriously consider paying
up to $200 extra for a 3.5G-enabled OpenMoko phone (which, per the
speech, is what it would cost). But I definitely can't order 50,000 of
them.



From liedekef at telenet.be  Thu Apr  2 18:39:34 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:39:34 +0200
Subject: [QtExtended] Latest and greatest
Message-ID: <20090402183934.4c53e78d@telenet.be>

Hi,

here are some first results of my tests on a fso-nox image and
andy-tracking kernel (2.6.28):

- alarms (using atd from angstrom, since no newer package exists),
  normal + when suspended
  ==> OK

- wake up when receiving sms
  ==> OK

- call + echo check
  ==> OK

- missed call bug
  ==> OK

- duplicate sms thing
  ==> OK

- bluetooth
  ==> "bluetooth not available" error

- voice notes
  ==> not working (not recording)

- usb cable handling for power charging ...
  ==> the freephone seems to charge when plugged in, but it suspends
  anyway (if the setting "suspend" is set when on battery). So
  somewhere there's a small bug there.

So for me, this seems great! The bluetooth worked on a 2.6.24 kernel,
so it should be easy to fix ... and I'm sure Filip will fix the
suspending thing :-)

Franky



From rms at 1407.org  Thu Apr  2 19:04:03 2009
From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Silva Seabra)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:04:03 +0100
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>

On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
> A couple of days ago Sean made a speech at ESC.
> 
> For anyone interested it is described here, with a video excerpt:
> http://techpulse360.com/2009/03/31/esc09-open-moko-is-the-anti-iphone-runs-google-android-but-still-no-3g/
> 
> He talks about the level of freedom the Freerunner offers people
> wanting to create a customized phone or those who want a development
> phone.
> 
> He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying
> that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put
> in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units).

You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G
will get my money as far as I'm concerned :)

Rui

-- 
P'tang!
Today is Boomtime, the 19th day of Discord in the YOLD 3175
+ No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown
+ Whatever you do will be insignificant,
| but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi
+ So let's do it...?



From onen.om at free.fr  Thu Apr  2 19:12:58 2009
From: onen.om at free.fr (Onen)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:12:58 +0200
Subject: [SHR] [openBmap] GSM cell, GPS logger now in SHR unstable!  (Was:
	[openBmap] Version 0.2.0 released of the GSM cell, GPS logger)
In-Reply-To: <200904021819.20465.mok@mnet-online.de>
References: <49D1325A.6060804@free.fr>
	<40cd9ce40904020045j45c07b59te69b044933373cbc@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D4E345.9060907@free.fr> <200904021819.20465.mok@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <49D4F21A.3000103@free.fr>

Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann wrote:
> Am Donnerstag 02 April 2009 18:09:41 schrieb Onen:
>>
>> I am talking to SHR guys to get it in their repository too.
> shr-unstable has it now :-)
> 

Thanks for that!

Onen




From justynbutler+openmoko at googlemail.com  Thu Apr  2 19:13:36 2009
From: justynbutler+openmoko at googlemail.com (Justyn Butler)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:13:36 +0100
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
Message-ID: <a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>

2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>:
> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
>> He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying
>> that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put
>> in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units).
>
> You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G
> will get my money as far as I'm concerned :)

Why the outrage?



From liedekef at telenet.be  Thu Apr  2 19:14:03 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 19:14:03 +0200
Subject: [QtExtended] Latest and greatest
In-Reply-To: <20090402183934.4c53e78d@telenet.be>
References: <20090402183934.4c53e78d@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <20090402191403.78a3a063@telenet.be>

On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:39:34 +0200
Franky Van Liedekerke <liedekef at telenet.be> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> here are some first results of my tests on a fso-nox image and
> andy-tracking kernel (2.6.28):
> 
> - alarms (using atd from angstrom, since no newer package exists),
>   normal + when suspended
>   ==> OK
> 
> - wake up when receiving sms
>   ==> OK
> 
> - call + echo check
>   ==> OK
> 
> - missed call bug
>   ==> OK
> 
> - duplicate sms thing
>   ==> OK
> 
> - bluetooth
>   ==> "bluetooth not available" error
> 
> - voice notes
>   ==> not working (not recording)
> 
> - usb cable handling for power charging ...
>   ==> the freephone seems to charge when plugged in, but it suspends
>   anyway (if the setting "suspend" is set when on battery). So
>   somewhere there's a small bug there.
> 
> So for me, this seems great! The bluetooth worked on a 2.6.24 kernel,
> so it should be easy to fix ... and I'm sure Filip will fix the
> suspending thing :-)

ok, I think I found the suspending thing. In the patch provided by
Radek (0001-patch-for-2.6.28-kernels.patch), the file
devices/neo/server/neohardware.cpp gets patched:

+    else if (QFileInfo("/sys/class/power_supply/usb/online").exists())
  {
+         //freerunner kernel > 2.6.28
+        chargeFile = "/sys/class/power_supply/usb/online";
+    }

but this file gives me "0" as result, even when the usb is connected ...
So it should be (as for neo/server/neobattery.cpp):

+    else if
  (QFileInfo("/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status").exists()) {
+         //freerunner kernel > 2.6.28
+        chargeFile = "/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status";
+    }

This file (/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status) gives the correct
status ("Charging") when plugged in ...
Filip, can you confirm this?

Franky



From rms at 1407.org  Thu Apr  2 19:35:58 2009
From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Silva Seabra)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:35:58 +0100
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>

On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
> 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>:
> > On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
> >> He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying
> >> that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put
> >> in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units).
> >
> > You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G
> > will get my money as far as I'm concerned :)
> 
> Why the outrage?

I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that
gets less and less Free as new devices come up :)

I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had
regarding that.

Rui

-- 
Wibble.
Today is Boomtime, the 19th day of Discord in the YOLD 3175
+ No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown
+ Whatever you do will be insignificant,
| but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi
+ So let's do it...?



From justynbutler+openmoko at googlemail.com  Thu Apr  2 20:10:00 2009
From: justynbutler+openmoko at googlemail.com (Justyn Butler)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 19:10:00 +0100
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
Message-ID: <a6af4cea0904021110v7fc09a4bl7f318f72aeeacb0d@mail.gmail.com>

2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>:
> I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that
> gets less and less Free as new devices come up :)

Well due to the expense it is clear that no 3G device is going to be
Openmoko's main phone for a long time. No one is going to stop anyone
buying a non-3G Openmoko phone.

What this is suggesting, I suppose, is a 3G derivative if there was
serious demand (or should I say, concrete demand in the form of a
large order. I personally demand it quite seriously!).
While it is a shame that the 3G part would be closed, it would clearly
be a legal necessity. It would be that or no 3G version at all.

> I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had
> regarding that.

I guess you mean the Glamo and that kind of thing.
The GSM firmware cannot become open source, can it?



From hariseldon78 at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 20:11:35 2009
From: hariseldon78 at gmail.com (roby)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 20:11:35 +0200
Subject: which way is the easier
In-Reply-To: <d4b7a31a0904010421x4578d67ag2dccd4936476ec63@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4b7a31a0904010421x4578d67ag2dccd4936476ec63@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aee831ab0904021111l3a201690q9d8f3bb27c323c12@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Anas Alzouhbi <anas.lbn at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello!
> I succeed to do the ssh with my openmoko,but
> the ways that I have found ?to arrive to build the first program are:
my suggestion: use shr-testing openembedded tree.
I say this because the mokomakefile gave me so much frustration when i
tried to use it that i stopped to try for some months, waiting for a
better world :)
In my experience the mokomakefile continuously get incompatible
updates from upstream, and the probability of success of a complete
build is really low (in my case 0%). Anyway, i am talking of the
situation of september-october, so things may have changed.
But when i tried to download and build shr-testing i found the heaven!
Everything builds because the packet versions are fixed. In that
environment you can easily make a port or try to write some new code,
without falling in frustration.

my 2c
roby



From prishelec at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 20:18:28 2009
From: prishelec at gmail.com (Leonti Bielski)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 20:18:28 +0200
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
Message-ID: <815cb1720904021118m45e59336v602e1aed2001a040@mail.gmail.com>

I've bought Freerunner because it's open. And I take it pretty seriously.

If 3G comes only with license, I don't need it.
Freerunner with fixed issues + camera for geotagged photos is an ideal
phone for me.

Leonti


On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:35 PM, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
>> 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>:
>> > On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
>> >> He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying
>> >> that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put
>> >> in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units).
>> >
>> > You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G
>> > will get my money as far as I'm concerned :)
>>
>> Why the outrage?
>
> I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that
> gets less and less Free as new devices come up :)
>
> I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had
> regarding that.
>
> Rui
>
> --
> Wibble.
> Today is Boomtime, the 19th day of Discord in the YOLD 3175
> + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown
> + Whatever you do will be insignificant,
> | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi
> + So let's do it...?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



From kimaidou at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 20:25:45 2009
From: kimaidou at gmail.com (kimaidou)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 20:25:45 +0200
Subject: [openBmap] Version 0.2.0 released of the GSM cell, GPS logger
In-Reply-To: <49D4E345.9060907@free.fr>
References: <49D1325A.6060804@free.fr>
	<40cd9ce40904020045j45c07b59te69b044933373cbc@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D4E345.9060907@free.fr>
Message-ID: <40cd9ce40904021125r500e673fg57083d3632efa5b5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi
About the advantages of opkg.org
* a software dedicated website, so that I can easily know the new and
updated softs with rss feeds (I don't have to filter the new entries in the
openmoko wiki and get lost among the amount of information)
* a small description for each software (you can do this on a wiki page, I
know), and each soft has the same description page template
* at the moment, there is a small number of distro (SHR and OM are the most
used), but this does not say that it will stay forever, so it could be hard
to ask the developper of each new platform to integrate it on the repos
* a lot of visitors
* you do not have to store the ipk on opkg. A link or description to your
repo is OK . So you can do both : put a description on opkg, and put the
package in the distro feeds

  I believe a portal containing a updated list of all softwares is great for
the users who are not always connected to the mailing lists and wikis. For
example, I saw the Hackable:A developpers have released a great rss reader
application ( https://trac.hackable1.org/trac/wiki/FeedReader ) . It could
be used by users using another debian based distribution (fyp or other), but
there is no way for them to know. If this app was in opkg, everyone would
know (I know, this is not a good examplen, as opkg is only for ipk package
and not deb, but you understand the meaning :D )

Cheers
Kimaidou

2009/4/2 Onen <onen.om at free.fr>

> Hi,
>
> if you have comments and/or suggestions about this release or future
> evolution feel free to contact me!
>
> Well so far what I have tried is to get the package directly into the
> feeds. This is the case for OM:
>
> http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/unstable/armv4t/openbmap-logger_0.2.0-r1_armv4t.ipk
>
> I am talking to SHR guys to get it in their repository too.
>
> But if opkg.org brings something more, I will gladly do this. Thus,
> would you explain me what creating a page on opkg.org would bring more?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Onen
>
> kimaidou wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Thanks a lot for this new version. I would like to know if you could
> > create a new page in opkg.org <http://opkg.org> for easily follow,
> > install and upgrade it !
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > Kimaidou
> >
> > 2009/3/30 Onen <onen.om <http://onen.om>@free.fr <http://free.fr>>
> >
> >     Hello,
> >
> >     the new version of the logger is out. This is a major step: you can
> now
> >     do the complete process (log, upload, delete processed logs)
> >     graphically! No need to edit any file.
> >
> >     WHAT'S NEW SINCE 0.1?
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
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From lists at tdobson.net  Thu Apr  2 20:52:13 2009
From: lists at tdobson.net (Tim Dobson)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:52:13 +0100
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
Message-ID: <49D5095D.3070402@tdobson.net>

Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:
> I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that
> gets less and less Free as new devices come up :)
> 
> I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had
> regarding that.

It's interesting that we have been talking extensively about a GTA3 as 
the next high powered has it all device. It may well be.

Let's imagine a GTA2.5 however...

GTA2 with a few hardware issues solved, GPS fix time, call quality (the 
hardware bits), accelerated graphics! :) and the other bits and bobs...

Then imagine *dropping* the price.

I am not at openmoko and this will almost certainly not happen :) but 
remember - most FOSS devs want a *phone*, a libre *phone* - some people 
want internet tablets and that's life - but perhaps a GTA2.5 is an answer...

It probably isn't, but the ideas there. :)

Tim

-- 
www.tdobson.net
----
If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us
still has one object.
If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now
has two ideas.   -  George Bernard Shaw



From freerunner at newkirk.us  Thu Apr  2 20:55:39 2009
From: freerunner at newkirk.us (j newkirk)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 11:55:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SHR,FSO] Serenity theme for illume
In-Reply-To: <1238687601.9159.0.camel@biagio-laptop>
References: <20090329171328.5e4097b4@j.newkirk.us>
	<1238687601.9159.0.camel@biagio-laptop>
Message-ID: <1238698539609-2576977.post@n2.nabble.com>



Hello, 
Where is the package of serenity?

-- 
Biagio Marino <ilcristopagano at gmail.com>


Sorry, had a power outage today about three hours longer than my UPS can sustain the server and datalink.  Back up now.  (I'll probably be moving the server to a colo on a 30mbps fiber soon, but for now it's here at home over my 3.5mb/1mb Canopy link, where thanks to an upstream routing snafu inbound email and VOIP are broken)

j

-- 
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/-SHR%2CFSO--Serenity-theme-for-illume-tp2554571p2576977.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




From monnier at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Apr  2 21:06:42 2009
From: monnier at iro.umontreal.ca (Stefan Monnier)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 15:06:42 -0400
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
Message-ID: <jwv3acq7u7l.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>

>> He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying
>> that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put
>> in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units).
> You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G
> will get my money as far as I'm concerned :)

IIUC there's no hope on the horizon to get a non-closed phone device
(whether 2G as in the FR, or any other cell-phone technology), so that
the 3G part would be closed is not any different from the closedness of
the GSM/GPRS in the FR.
I.e. it would suck, but not more than what we already have.


        Stefan




From yacine.k at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 21:11:46 2009
From: yacine.k at gmail.com (yacine)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 12:11:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Linphone not available?
In-Reply-To: <200903201924.25330.openmoko@mazikeen.demon.co.uk>
References: <1235140604377-2359208.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<1237488961392-2504714.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<200903192045.45594.openmoko@mazikeen.demon.co.uk>
	<1237512980670-2506595.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<200903201538.41624.openmoko@mazikeen.demon.co.uk>
	<1237569806431-2510130.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<200903201924.25330.openmoko@mazikeen.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1238699506180-2577054.post@n2.nabble.com>



On Friday 20 March 2009, yacine wrote:
> Al Johnson wrote:
> > http://openmoko.truebox.co.uk/repos/mazikeen/shr-testing/ipk/armv4t/
> >
> > I think I got all the deps that aren't in the main repos, but may have
> > missed
> > some. Looks like faulty memory about the 2.x version - these 1.6 but
> > includes
> > the patch to allow external control by yeaphone etc. There is no gui
> > IIRC, so
> > you'll be using linphonec.
> >
> > The binaries can be built by following the standard SHR build
> > instructions,
> > then:
> > 	cd shr-testing
> > 	. setup-env
> > 	bitbake linphone
> >
> > As for the new version, I want to try it first. The daemon mode was
> > mentioned
> > in the release email, but I haven't seen exactly what it does. If it
> > looks nice I'll try to make a bitbake recipe, but it'll be my first for
> > an app.
>
> Thank you for taking time to do this. From what you have said I guess I
> have to put SHR.
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SHR

It'll probably work with other OE-based distros like FSO and 2008.x too, so 
give it a try first unless you want to try SHR anyway.

btw 3.1.0 now builds, but I've not tested it yet.

_______________________________________________
Openmoko community mailing list
community at lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



Hi, 

I just wanted to say thank you for provided the packages. Using them I was able to install linphonec v1.6
My problem now is the voice path. 
I have created a free sip account from iptel.org. I tested the account using a PC sip client and it worked just fine. 

The problem occurs when I try to use the same sip account on the OM and call the echo number I get this: 

warning: Unknown nb_ctl request:  12
ortp-error-Could not set vbr mode to speex encoder.
warning: Unknown nb_ctl request:  34

Also, before making the call I get:
Registration on sip:iptel.org sucessful.

I followed instructions in here . 

I also tried testing my microphone and speakers with voicenote . It worked. 


Any help of course is appreciated. 

Yacine





-- 
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Linphone-not-available--tp2359208p2577054.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




From liedekef at telenet.be  Thu Apr  2 21:24:47 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 21:24:47 +0200
Subject: qt-extended-improved unpredictive keyboard
In-Reply-To: <49D3F0BF.5000104@lilik.it>
References: <49D2AAF2.4070109@lilik.it>
	<60567dcc0904010245s3277faf0u70565ad5cf44c284@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D3F0BF.5000104@lilik.it>
Message-ID: <20090402212447.7528a64d@telenet.be>

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 00:54:55 +0200
"leonardo at lilik.it" <leonardo at lilik.it> wrote:

> Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:44 AM, leonardo at lilik.it
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I'm very interested in testing this, but the source isn't in the
> > zipfile ... For the screenshots, maybe you can try
> > http://qtextended.org/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=18 ?
> 
> http://leonardo.lilik.it/wordpress/2009/04/01/qt-extended-un-predictive-keyboard/
> 
> here we go, you can find the source code in the zip and the .so
> including bugfix to make the first row not overlap with the
> prediction row.

This is a nice keyboard, much easier/faster to use than the predictive
one! The look is not all that, but functionality-wise it is great!

Franky



From filip at linux4.be  Thu Apr  2 22:16:29 2009
From: filip at linux4.be (Filip Onkelinx)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:16:29 +0200
Subject: [QtExtended] Latest and greatest
In-Reply-To: <20090402191403.78a3a063@telenet.be>
References: <20090402183934.4c53e78d@telenet.be>
	<20090402191403.78a3a063@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <op.urrzxrfe5z3zlq@home.onkelinx.com>

Hi Franky,

about the usb cable: (cablechanged signal):

initial state is using one of the files as you mentioned, but that's only  
for initial state (both old and new kernels)
- old system : using /dev/input/event4
- new system : using uevent.
Can you please double check the power managment, settings when Plugged in  
: make sure 'suspend' is set to off.
If it still does suspend when connected, please go to :  
settings->logging->options->categories and check 'hardware' .
plug/unplug the cable a couple of times, enter a console (ssh)  and do a  
'logread'.

What's the exact kernel version (url ?) you are using ?

thx,

F.


On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:14:03 +0200, Franky Van Liedekerke  
<liedekef at telenet.be> wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:39:34 +0200
> Franky Van Liedekerke <liedekef at telenet.be> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> here are some first results of my tests on a fso-nox image and
>> andy-tracking kernel (2.6.28):
>>
>> - alarms (using atd from angstrom, since no newer package exists),
>>   normal + when suspended
>>   ==> OK
>>
>> - wake up when receiving sms
>>   ==> OK
>>
>> - call + echo check
>>   ==> OK
>>
>> - missed call bug
>>   ==> OK
>>
>> - duplicate sms thing
>>   ==> OK
>>
>> - bluetooth
>>   ==> "bluetooth not available" error
>>
>> - voice notes
>>   ==> not working (not recording)
>>
>> - usb cable handling for power charging ...
>>   ==> the freephone seems to charge when plugged in, but it suspends
>>   anyway (if the setting "suspend" is set when on battery). So
>>   somewhere there's a small bug there.
>>
>> So for me, this seems great! The bluetooth worked on a 2.6.24 kernel,
>> so it should be easy to fix ... and I'm sure Filip will fix the
>> suspending thing :-)
>
> ok, I think I found the suspending thing. In the patch provided by
> Radek (0001-patch-for-2.6.28-kernels.patch), the file
> devices/neo/server/neohardware.cpp gets patched:
>
> +    else if (QFileInfo("/sys/class/power_supply/usb/online").exists())
>   {
> +         //freerunner kernel > 2.6.28
> +        chargeFile = "/sys/class/power_supply/usb/online";
> +    }
>
> but this file gives me "0" as result, even when the usb is connected ...
> So it should be (as for neo/server/neobattery.cpp):
>
> +    else if
>   (QFileInfo("/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status").exists()) {
> +         //freerunner kernel > 2.6.28
> +        chargeFile = "/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status";
> +    }
>
> This file (/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status) gives the correct
> status ("Charging") when plugged in ...
> Filip, can you confirm this?
>
> Franky
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/



From jim at anconafamily.com  Thu Apr  2 22:42:49 2009
From: jim at anconafamily.com (Jim Ancona)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:42:49 -0400
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <jwv3acq7u7l.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<jwv3acq7u7l.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <59af3fb30904021342s52fabad8w6d4dc84a1cae8b08@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Stefan Monnier <monnier at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>>> He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying
>>> that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put
>>> in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units).
>> You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G
>> will get my money as far as I'm concerned :)
>
> IIUC there's no hope on the horizon to get a non-closed phone device
> (whether 2G as in the FR, or any other cell-phone technology), so that
> the 3G part would be closed is not any different from the closedness of
> the GSM/GPRS in the FR.
> I.e. it would suck, but not more than what we already have.

How about wifi? My impression is that the closed nature of the Atheros
firmware has been a large part of the wifi issues with the GTA02,
despite Werner's and others' hard work. I still can't connect to my
work network (WPA2 Enterprise/hidden SSID). Has anyone has gotten WPA2
Enterprise to work?

Jim



From captain.deadly at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 22:53:34 2009
From: captain.deadly at gmail.com (Arigead)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:53:34 +0100
Subject: started with openembedded
In-Reply-To: <1238598226.7128.142.camel@alap>
References: <d4b7a31a0903310645g5435fc53v276415790bcd8045@mail.gmail.com>	<1238510961.7128.73.camel@alap>	<d4b7a31a0904010141q30b3be2alfff8700c3ad09f92@mail.gmail.com>
	<1238598226.7128.142.camel@alap>
Message-ID: <49D525CE.30202@gmail.com>

Angus Ainslie wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-04-01 at 10:41 +0200, Anas Alzouhbi wrote:
>> Thank you for your recommandation, I'm a new user and programmer on
>> Linux, could you help me how can I run my commands as normal user,
>> with the problem of permission of creating directories.
>> what do you mean start from scratch or do a chown on directories.
>> Thank you for you help that I big it
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Angus Ainslie <nytowl at openmoko.org> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2009-03-31 at 15:45 +0200, Anas Alzouhbi wrote:
>>>> hello!
>>>> I followed the instruction written in
>>>> http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/Getting_Started,
>>>> I arrived to this command git clone git://git.openembedded.net/openembedded
>>>> but it shows this error:
>>>> fatal: could not create work tree dir 'openembedded'.
>>>> what must I do
>>>>
>>> Hi Anas
>>>
>>> >From looking at some of your other mails you've been running some
>>> commands as root. It's not necessary and dangerous. It's probably a
>>> permission problem on the directory, so either start from scratch
>>> somewhere else as a normal user or do a chown on the directories you're
>>> working in.
>>>
>>> Angus
>>>
>>>
> 
> Please keep the thread on list
> 
> Google pointed out a few links
> 
> http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Debian_newbie_help_documentation
> http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/Getting_started
> 

This is from the gumstix site but it might be useful. Hope it's of some
help anyhow.

http://www.gumstix.net/User/view/Build-system-overview/Hello-world-tutorial/110.html



From mail at 3v1n0.net  Thu Apr  2 23:16:04 2009
From: mail at 3v1n0.net (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcmNvIFRyZXZpc2FuIChUcmV2acOxbyki?=)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:16:04 +0200
Subject: On the Enlightenment Bleeding Edge
In-Reply-To: <gk6ksv$opv$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <gk6ksv$opv$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <gr39ul$qia$1@ger.gmane.org>

Marco Trevisan (Trevi?o) wrote:
> In the latest months the enlightenment world has got many updates, but
> unfortunately the distros available for the FR don't provide the latest
> versions of the E stack. This is quite normal since they have to share a
> tested environment, but it makes so hard to use the latest tools (also
> because the e libs have frequent changes).
> That's why today I've given to my Toolchain another challenge :P:
> compiling E from svn (but following the OE bitbakes configurations)...
> 
> After some hours, I got it and I was able to run the latest illume code
> in my phone, but without breaking my Om2008.12 installation.
> In fact I've installed all my new data to /usr/e17, that's why the
> default e installation that comes with Om2008.12 is not touched at all.

Since I was asked for it by some users, I've uploaded newer packages of
the latest e17 svn compiled for being installed in /usr/e17 not to break
any installation [1]. Follow the previous provided instructions to
install it.
It includes also elementary; you can try it with:
 DISPLAY=:0 LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/e17/lib elementary_test

Unfortunately this build (and the previous one) isn't compatibile with
latest libeWebkit that I've planned to recompile to make it work with
eve (the new ewww name ;)).

Bye.

[1]
http://downloads.tuxfamily.org/3v1deb/openmoko/e17-illume-elementary%2bsvn20090402.tar.bz2

-- 
Trevi?o's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/




From seba.dos1 at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 23:19:25 2009
From: seba.dos1 at gmail.com (Johny Tenfinger)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 23:19:25 +0200
Subject: On the Enlightenment Bleeding Edge
In-Reply-To: <gr39ul$qia$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <gk6ksv$opv$1@ger.gmane.org> <gr39ul$qia$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c30e08170904021419i57895317j3dd210c60e34e27e@mail.gmail.com>

shr-unstable is now using very hot new enlightenment revision ;)



From captain.deadly at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 23:25:51 2009
From: captain.deadly at gmail.com (Arigead)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:25:51 +0100
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D52D5F.7060100@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Justyn Butler wrote:
> A couple of days ago Sean made a speech at ESC.
> 
> For anyone interested it is described here, with a video excerpt:
> http://techpulse360.com/2009/03/31/esc09-open-moko-is-the-anti-iphone-runs-google-android-but-still-no-3g/
> 
> He talks about the level of freedom the Freerunner offers people
> wanting to create a customized phone or those who want a development
> phone.
> 
> He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying
> that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put
> in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units).
> 
> Justyn.
> 
> ps. At this point I'd like to say that I'd seriously consider paying
> up to $200 extra for a 3.5G-enabled OpenMoko phone (which, per the
> speech, is what it would cost). But I definitely can't order 50,000 of
> them.

I seem to remember last year a Canadian company had made a spacer that
fitted between the phone and the back cover to make the FR something
like 5mm fatter. Into the extra space they'd put a Digital TV Receiver
and displayed TV on the FR screen.

If you could get a hold of the plastic spacer could you then take a 3.5G
USB Dongle and put that into the space? I think that 3.5G USB Dongles
are supported by the usb serial option driver. I've got a:

Bus 002 Device 003: ID 12d1:1003 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. E220
HSDPA Modem / E270 HSDPA/HSUPA Modem

plugged into this Ubuntu laptop. I did plug it into the FR running SHR
and it all worked without a problem once I'd  created the necessary /etc
files. Is HSDPA 3.5G? Maybe it's only 3G I can't keep up with my G's.

Anyhow HSDPA Dongle worked on the FR if that's of any help.


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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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From mail at 3v1n0.net  Thu Apr  2 23:58:13 2009
From: mail at 3v1n0.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Marco_Trevisan_=28Trevi=F1o=29=22?=)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:58:13 +0200
Subject: On the Enlightenment Bleeding Edge
In-Reply-To: <c30e08170904021419i57895317j3dd210c60e34e27e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <gk6ksv$opv$1@ger.gmane.org> <gr39ul$qia$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<c30e08170904021419i57895317j3dd210c60e34e27e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <gr3cdn$299$1@ger.gmane.org>

Johny Tenfinger wrote:
> shr-unstable is now using very hot new enlightenment revision ;)

Yes I know that... But I mostly use Om2008 so to stay a little more on
the bleeding edge I have to compile, and I've always done for months :P

-- 
Trevi?o's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/




From lukpank at o2.pl  Fri Apr  3 00:27:29 2009
From: lukpank at o2.pl (=?utf-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz?= Pankowski)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 00:27:29 +0200
Subject: I am working on Debian packages for atd-over-fso (was [Qt Extended]
	debian image)
In-Reply-To: <60567dcc0904020019g7da81721vd64673104d6abfc7@mail.gmail.com>
	(Franky Van Liedekerke's message of "Thu\,
	2 Apr 2009 09\:19\:59 +0200")
References: <49D14770.7070206@seznam.cz>
	<jwv4ox8bf9y.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
	<49D3B189.4020105@seznam.cz>
	<jwvfxgs9bre.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
	<60567dcc0904020019g7da81721vd64673104d6abfc7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87zleyofn2.fsf_-_@ash.lupan-home>

Franky Van Liedekerke <liedekef at telenet.be> writes:

> So this evening I'll play a bit with that image (I need to add atd from angstrom to get the alarms to work probably) and see about the bluetooth thingie.

May be you will be interested: I am just working on Debian packages of
atd-over-fso [1] (port of atd working on top of fso), chances are I
will finish tomorrow.

[1] http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=260



From liedekef at telenet.be  Fri Apr  3 00:43:07 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 00:43:07 +0200
Subject: [QtExtended] Latest and greatest
In-Reply-To: <20090402183934.4c53e78d@telenet.be>
References: <20090402183934.4c53e78d@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <20090403004307.1219cb18@telenet.be>

On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:39:34 +0200
Franky Van Liedekerke <liedekef at telenet.be> wrote:


> - voice notes
>   ==> not working (not recording)

for those curious: it can be done ...
There are two things wrong in qtopia:

- the wrong alsa scenario file is used (it should be
  voip-handset.state, but it is capturehandset.state)
  This can be easily fixed (either in the source or just copy
  voip-handset.state to capturehandset.state
- the pcm options used: it should use "hw" as PCM device, it doesn't
  now.
  So I changed /etc/asound.conf to read:

# default dmix configuration

pcm.!default {
    type plug
#    slave.pcm "dmix"
    slave.pcm "hw"
}

ctl.mixer0 {
    type hw
    card 0
}


(changed the line slave.pcm). Now voicenotes work, and playback also.


Franky



From raster at rasterman.com  Fri Apr  3 02:10:47 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:10:47 +1100
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
Message-ID: <20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>

On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:35:58 +0100 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org> said:

> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
> > 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>:
> > > On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
> > >> He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying
> > >> that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put
> > >> in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units).
> > >
> > > You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G
> > > will get my money as far as I'm concerned :)
> > 
> > Why the outrage?
> 
> I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that
> gets less and less Free as new devices come up :)
> 
> I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had
> regarding that.

3g can be done - just like the 2g on feeerunner - you will talk to a closed
blob via a defined protocol. just like any chip anywhere. no less free than
gta02 in that way. BUT yes - you'll pay an extra $200.

nb gta03 - you missed the news from sean's talk at openexpo in switzerland.
gta03 is "postponed" (read cancelled - postponed is just a nice way to say it
and try and keep the community hanging around in hope it un-cancels, as
openmoko has laid off most of their staff (also news from openexpo), their
linux staff. you don't un-postpone if you just let all the people go who work
on the software).

-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From raster at rasterman.com  Fri Apr  3 02:02:28 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:02:28 +1100
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <20090402162338.GA1522@yamamaya.is-a-geek.org>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090402162338.GA1522@yamamaya.is-a-geek.org>
Message-ID: <20090403110228.19a91dc1.raster@rasterman.com>

On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:23:38 +0200 Tobias Diedrich <ranma+openmoko at tdiedrich.de>
said:

> Iain B. FIndleton wrote:
> > A significant issue for me is the performance of the graphics display on 
> > the FR. I recall some discussions a while back about making use of the 
> > XGlamo acceleration features. Has any progress been made here? It 
> > appears to me that the graphics performance on the FR is poor compared 
> > to, for instance, the iPhone or iTouch, both of which have slower CPUs. 
> > When applications running on the FR have their X output routed to a 
> > machine with accelerated graphics, it is apparent that the FR processor 
> > can deliver the X events fast enough, but the FR graphics chip interface 
> > can't keep up.
> 
> Isn't the glamo supposed to have one (or more?) OpenRISC cores?
> It would be nice to have a documented way to upload code to the
> core, that way it might be possible to implement the Bling on the
> graphics chip directly...
> I mean, since OpenRISC has a documented instruction set (unless
> they've augmented it) set I'd figure the only thing missing would
>  be where to put the code and how to start it...

this information is not even in the docs openmoko had on the glamo. there is no
known way to play with this core. my understanding is that it is actually a
relatively slow core (50mhz) and is only really for higher level management of
sub-systems on the glamo.

of course here is your big problem.. you can do all this for the glamo and it
will never work anywhere else. it is a 1 off for 1 chip that will never see the
light of day in another product.

> So, just like with the mpeg4 decoding unit, wouldn't it be
> possible for someone with access to the NDA documentation to write
> an example program that just shows how to run a simple program (e.g.
> bitblt) on the OpenRISC processor?

no. as those docs are not even in the nda docs. other than that.. bitblit is
documented and not related to the risc core. there is a blitter there. xglamo
uses even. xglamo *IS ACCELERATED* it's about as accelerated as most x drivers
(fills, blits). it has no accel for xrender (xglamo doesnt implement enough of
xrender's operations to make it worth it - again see my previous mail. you'll
be writing fallback software code and end up no faster than where you started).

if you want decent speed - drop to qvga. thats what glamo was really designed
to handle. even the 2442 (cpu) is pushing it to deal with vga nicely. it can.
but that generation of cpu is more geared to qvga resolutions.

the gta02 is a ferrari body (vga screen) with a lawnmower engine under it (2442
+glamo). you need to drive it like a lawnmower - and then only expect it to be
as good as a lownmower. it looks nice parked on the street (still photos) but
if it moves... it will show its true nature. remove the heavy ferrari body and
drive it like a go-kart and you'll have more fun.

> -- 
> Tobias						PGP:
> http://9ac7e0bc.uguu.de
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 


-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From raster at rasterman.com  Fri Apr  3 02:30:20 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:30:20 +1100
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <20090403113020.f18fa7b3.raster@rasterman.com>

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:17:42 -0400 "Iain B. FIndleton"
<ifindleton at videotron.ca> said:

> A significant issue for me is the performance of the graphics display on 
> the FR. I recall some discussions a while back about making use of the 
> XGlamo acceleration features. Has any progress been made here? It 
> appears to me that the graphics performance on the FR is poor compared 
> to, for instance, the iPhone or iTouch, both of which have slower CPUs.

totally incorrect.

1. iphone ant itouch have 500-600mhz (depending on version) s3c6400 cpu cores.
these are about 2x the speed of the 2442 in the gta02. (armv6 vs armv4, faster
memory etc.).
2. they both have half the pixels to draw (320x480 vs 480x640).
3. they both use the mbx 3d accel for 2d (the fr can't sanely do this thanks to
the 3d unit 1. limited to 256x256 for textures, 2. no render-to-texture, 3. max
3d buffer size is 511x511 - that is dimensions, so it cant even do fullscreen
drawing).
 
> When applications running on the FR have their X output routed to a 
> machine with accelerated graphics, it is apparent that the FR processor 
> can deliver the X events fast enough, but the FR graphics chip interface 
> can't keep up.

correct. this is simply a hadrware limitation. the chip in the Fr was never
designed to work well with VGA resolution - it was designed for QVGA. it CAN do
VGA (just like you average cheap car CAN do 200km/h - but it's not going to
take a corner at 200km/h compared to a proper sports car).

the glamo can accelerate some things - but then also cannot do others. in the
end you will accelerate some things on it - only to be left by doing others in
software on the cpu. this is where hell kicks in. then you end up transferring
data from video ram back to system, then writing back to video ram for more
accelerated ops, and so on. in the end you transfer data back and fort 1, 2 or
3 times to do an operation when falling back to software. even if glamo can do
the accelerated bits 5x faster than the cpu can - you will end up with a slower
overall pipeline as you keep transferring data back and forth over the
incredibly slow video bus (which can push at best about 7m/sec of data from
system to video ram and back - about 1/6th the speed of transferring data
around system ram).

so in the end... you will spend a lot of work on accelerated routines - getting
them to work, and end up.. where you started - still just as slow. i bet this
early on. i've read the glamo specs and played with it. this was the conclusion
i came to. if you didn't have the video bus transfer slowness then software
fallbacks don't have as big an impact - but even then they need to be optimised
and there is still overhead if you cant do the operation in-place. but this is
not the case.

so the other side of that is to do everything with the cpu in system ram and
transfer to the glamo when done - so you only deal with the slow write once, at
the end. but remember the write - when being done, will hold the cpu hostage
and as it is now slowed down to 1/6th its normal speed during this write - you
lose even more cpu power.

the solution is to just update less of the screen, make drawing simple so the
cpu has to do less when software-rendering, and/or drop down to qvga.

please dig over the archives of this list. this has been gone over in gory
detail before :)

-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From levy.santanna at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 02:55:06 2009
From: levy.santanna at gmail.com (Levy)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 21:55:06 -0300
Subject: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
In-Reply-To: <49CC7E7A.8020708@openmoko.com>
References: <1237557963200-2509041.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<20090321123821.51b8fdce@lska2> <m2hc1nysz0.fsf@home.pavel.comp>
	<20090321151347.2da0d7e2@lska2>
	<1237666843707-2514859.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<1237799140655-2520061.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<m2wsagy38l.fsf@home.pavel.comp> <49C9D445.7060409@openmoko.com>
	<bf6f43f40903262331x4ea5e827i806bca7ca9b3f595@mail.gmail.com>
	<49CC7E7A.8020708@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <bf6f43f40904021755i39b4155ci2a082167132257e2@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 04:21, Steve Mosher <steve at openmoko.com> wrote:

>  Levy,
>
>   We are very Keen to do business in Brazil. Maddog and I converse about
> this weekly on how to do a better job in Brazil. I'll work to get
> Him and the disty there some parts for upgrades.


Hi Steve.

Nice to hear!
Thank you for your answer.

[]s
Levy.
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From billk at iinet.net.au  Fri Apr  3 03:05:06 2009
From: billk at iinet.net.au (W.Kenworthy)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:05:06 +0800
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
	<20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>
Message-ID: <1238720706.8766.4.camel@bunyip.localdomain>

On Fri, 2009-04-03 at 11:10 +1100, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:35:58 +0100 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org> said:
> 
> > On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
> > > 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>:
...
> 3g can be done - just like the 2g on feeerunner - you will talk to a closed
> blob via a defined protocol. just like any chip anywhere. no less free than
> gta02 in that way. BUT yes - you'll pay an extra $200.
> 
Repeating a suggestion someone made months ago - place the gsm chipset
on a (mini) daughterboard and have a cheap option (calypso) and a 3G
option for those who want to pay for it.  Downside is more room inside
the case is likely needed, and extra costs.

Taken further, from a hobyist point of view, having all major systems
(GSM, GPS, WiFi, ...) pluggable would be a great idea ...

Dream on ...
BillK






From raster at rasterman.com  Fri Apr  3 03:11:26 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:11:26 +1100
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <1238720706.8766.4.camel@bunyip.localdomain>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
	<20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>
	<1238720706.8766.4.camel@bunyip.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20090403121126.f09d34d7.raster@rasterman.com>

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:05:06 +0800 "W.Kenworthy" <billk at iinet.net.au> said:

> On Fri, 2009-04-03 at 11:10 +1100, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> > On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:35:58 +0100 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>
> > said:
> > 
> > > On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
> > > > 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>:
> ...
> > 3g can be done - just like the 2g on feeerunner - you will talk to a closed
> > blob via a defined protocol. just like any chip anywhere. no less free than
> > gta02 in that way. BUT yes - you'll pay an extra $200.
> > 
> Repeating a suggestion someone made months ago - place the gsm chipset
> on a (mini) daughterboard and have a cheap option (calypso) and a 3G
> option for those who want to pay for it.  Downside is more room inside
> the case is likely needed, and extra costs.
> 
> Taken further, from a hobyist point of view, having all major systems
> (GSM, GPS, WiFi, ...) pluggable would be a great idea ...
> 
> Dream on ...

sure. this also makes it more expensive to produce, larger and more likely to
fail. (phones get abused badly - dropped and so on. anything that is plugged
will have a big chance of coming loose in these events). if you are willing to
accept a phone more the size of an n800 (no longer fits nicely in a pocket)...
t might be doable...

-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From ifindleton at videotron.ca  Fri Apr  3 03:19:45 2009
From: ifindleton at videotron.ca (Iain B. FIndleton)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:19:45 -0400
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <20090403110228.19a91dc1.raster@rasterman.com>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090402162338.GA1522@yamamaya.is-a-geek.org>
	<20090403110228.19a91dc1.raster@rasterman.com>
Message-ID: <49D56431.8030905@videotron.ca>

Well, that clears things up a bit. So, there is no way to get rid of the 
draping one sees when the display is refreshed? My stuff uses double 
buffering, but your comments appear to indicate that that is a waste of  
time.

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:23:38 +0200 Tobias Diedrich <ranma+openmoko at tdiedrich.de>
> said:
>
>   
>> Iain B. FIndleton wrote:
>>     
>>> A significant issue for me is the performance of the graphics display on 
>>> the FR. I recall some discussions a while back about making use of the 
>>> XGlamo acceleration features. Has any progress been made here? It 
>>> appears to me that the graphics performance on the FR is poor compared 
>>> to, for instance, the iPhone or iTouch, both of which have slower CPUs. 
>>> When applications running on the FR have their X output routed to a 
>>> machine with accelerated graphics, it is apparent that the FR processor 
>>> can deliver the X events fast enough, but the FR graphics chip interface 
>>> can't keep up.
>>>       
>> Isn't the glamo supposed to have one (or more?) OpenRISC cores?
>> It would be nice to have a documented way to upload code to the
>> core, that way it might be possible to implement the Bling on the
>> graphics chip directly...
>> I mean, since OpenRISC has a documented instruction set (unless
>> they've augmented it) set I'd figure the only thing missing would
>>  be where to put the code and how to start it...
>>     
>
> this information is not even in the docs openmoko had on the glamo. there is no
> known way to play with this core. my understanding is that it is actually a
> relatively slow core (50mhz) and is only really for higher level management of
> sub-systems on the glamo.
>
> of course here is your big problem.. you can do all this for the glamo and it
> will never work anywhere else. it is a 1 off for 1 chip that will never see the
> light of day in another product.
>
>   
>> So, just like with the mpeg4 decoding unit, wouldn't it be
>> possible for someone with access to the NDA documentation to write
>> an example program that just shows how to run a simple program (e.g.
>> bitblt) on the OpenRISC processor?
>>     
>
> no. as those docs are not even in the nda docs. other than that.. bitblit is
> documented and not related to the risc core. there is a blitter there. xglamo
> uses even. xglamo *IS ACCELERATED* it's about as accelerated as most x drivers
> (fills, blits). it has no accel for xrender (xglamo doesnt implement enough of
> xrender's operations to make it worth it - again see my previous mail. you'll
> be writing fallback software code and end up no faster than where you started).
>
> if you want decent speed - drop to qvga. thats what glamo was really designed
> to handle. even the 2442 (cpu) is pushing it to deal with vga nicely. it can.
> but that generation of cpu is more geared to qvga resolutions.
>
> the gta02 is a ferrari body (vga screen) with a lawnmower engine under it (2442
> +glamo). you need to drive it like a lawnmower - and then only expect it to be
> as good as a lownmower. it looks nice parked on the street (still photos) but
> if it moves... it will show its true nature. remove the heavy ferrari body and
> drive it like a go-kart and you'll have more fun.
>
>   
>> -- 
>> Tobias						PGP:
>> http://9ac7e0bc.uguu.de
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>>     
>
>
>   




From raster at rasterman.com  Fri Apr  3 03:31:12 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:31:12 +1100
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <49D56431.8030905@videotron.ca>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090402162338.GA1522@yamamaya.is-a-geek.org>
	<20090403110228.19a91dc1.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D56431.8030905@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <20090403123112.bf54747b.raster@rasterman.com>

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:19:45 -0400 "Iain B. FIndleton"
<ifindleton at videotron.ca> said:

> Well, that clears things up a bit. So, there is no way to get rid of the 
> draping one sees when the display is refreshed? My stuff uses double 
> buffering, but your comments appear to indicate that that is a waste of  
> time.

draping?

> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:23:38 +0200 Tobias Diedrich <ranma
> > +openmoko at tdiedrich.de> said:
> >
> >   
> >> Iain B. FIndleton wrote:
> >>     
> >>> A significant issue for me is the performance of the graphics display on 
> >>> the FR. I recall some discussions a while back about making use of the 
> >>> XGlamo acceleration features. Has any progress been made here? It 
> >>> appears to me that the graphics performance on the FR is poor compared 
> >>> to, for instance, the iPhone or iTouch, both of which have slower CPUs. 
> >>> When applications running on the FR have their X output routed to a 
> >>> machine with accelerated graphics, it is apparent that the FR processor 
> >>> can deliver the X events fast enough, but the FR graphics chip interface 
> >>> can't keep up.
> >>>       
> >> Isn't the glamo supposed to have one (or more?) OpenRISC cores?
> >> It would be nice to have a documented way to upload code to the
> >> core, that way it might be possible to implement the Bling on the
> >> graphics chip directly...
> >> I mean, since OpenRISC has a documented instruction set (unless
> >> they've augmented it) set I'd figure the only thing missing would
> >>  be where to put the code and how to start it...
> >>     
> >
> > this information is not even in the docs openmoko had on the glamo. there
> > is no known way to play with this core. my understanding is that it is
> > actually a relatively slow core (50mhz) and is only really for higher level
> > management of sub-systems on the glamo.
> >
> > of course here is your big problem.. you can do all this for the glamo and
> > it will never work anywhere else. it is a 1 off for 1 chip that will never
> > see the light of day in another product.
> >
> >   
> >> So, just like with the mpeg4 decoding unit, wouldn't it be
> >> possible for someone with access to the NDA documentation to write
> >> an example program that just shows how to run a simple program (e.g.
> >> bitblt) on the OpenRISC processor?
> >>     
> >
> > no. as those docs are not even in the nda docs. other than that.. bitblit is
> > documented and not related to the risc core. there is a blitter there.
> > xglamo uses even. xglamo *IS ACCELERATED* it's about as accelerated as most
> > x drivers (fills, blits). it has no accel for xrender (xglamo doesnt
> > implement enough of xrender's operations to make it worth it - again see my
> > previous mail. you'll be writing fallback software code and end up no
> > faster than where you started).
> >
> > if you want decent speed - drop to qvga. thats what glamo was really
> > designed to handle. even the 2442 (cpu) is pushing it to deal with vga
> > nicely. it can. but that generation of cpu is more geared to qvga
> > resolutions.
> >
> > the gta02 is a ferrari body (vga screen) with a lawnmower engine under it
> > (2442 +glamo). you need to drive it like a lawnmower - and then only expect
> > it to be as good as a lownmower. it looks nice parked on the street (still
> > photos) but if it moves... it will show its true nature. remove the heavy
> > ferrari body and drive it like a go-kart and you'll have more fun.
> >
> >   
> >> -- 
> >> Tobias						PGP:
> >> http://9ac7e0bc.uguu.de
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Openmoko community mailing list
> >> community at lists.openmoko.org
> >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >>
> >>     
> >
> >
> >   
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 


-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From site-openmoko.org at onerussian.com  Fri Apr  3 04:53:51 2009
From: site-openmoko.org at onerussian.com (Yaroslav Halchenko)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 22:53:51 -0400
Subject: I am working on Debian packages for atd-over-fso (was [Qt
	Extended] debian image)
In-Reply-To: <87zleyofn2.fsf_-_@ash.lupan-home>
References: <49D14770.7070206@seznam.cz>
	<jwv4ox8bf9y.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
	<49D3B189.4020105@seznam.cz>
	<jwvfxgs9bre.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
	<60567dcc0904020019g7da81721vd64673104d6abfc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<87zleyofn2.fsf_-_@ash.lupan-home>
Message-ID: <20090403025350.GR25857@washoe.rutgers.edu>

do you mean that whenever that is done you will be ready to package
Debian packages for ffalarms? ;)

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009, ?ukasz Pankowski wrote:

> Franky Van Liedekerke <liedekef at telenet.be> writes:

> > So this evening I'll play a bit with that image (I need to add atd from angstrom to get the alarms to work probably) and see about the bluetooth thingie.

> May be you will be interested: I am just working on Debian packages of
> atd-over-fso [1] (port of atd working on top of fso), chances are I
> will finish tomorrow.

> [1] http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=260

> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


-- 
                                  .-.
=------------------------------   /v\  ----------------------------=
Keep in touch                    // \\     (yoh@|www.)onerussian.com
Yaroslav Halchenko              /(   )\               ICQ#: 60653192
                   Linux User    ^^-^^    [175555]





From nytowl at openmoko.org  Fri Apr  3 06:38:19 2009
From: nytowl at openmoko.org (Angus Ainslie)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:38:19 -0600
Subject: On the Enlightenment Bleeding Edge
In-Reply-To: <gr39ul$qia$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <gk6ksv$opv$1@ger.gmane.org>  <gr39ul$qia$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1238733499.6527.19.camel@think-laptop>

Openmoko unstable and anything based on fso/milestone5.5 has stayed
current to the newest revision of enlightenment for over a month now. 

Angus




From steve at openmoko.com  Fri Apr  3 07:27:43 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:27:43 -0700
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
	<20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>
Message-ID: <49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com>

Since I worked on the presentation with Sean for the days he was here in
SF, let me give you my view and sean's view. That way we won't get into
some version of the telephone game.

Sean discussed three things at OpenExpo.

1. Our successes.
2. Our mistakes.
3. Our challenges

I won't go over 1& 2 but I'll cover #3 since rasters perception has
a bit of color added to it. Only a tiny bit and he's entitled
to that color commentary, I'll just add what Sean and I, as authors
of the presentation, had as our message.

Our biggest challenge was to make a choice about how to spend the
balance of 2009.

There were two paths:
A: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch GTA03
B: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and  launch project B.

We will talk more about project B in the coming months, but these
salient facts should be able to guide any budding executives out there.

1. GTA03 was in constant flux as a design.
2. GTA03 schedule was consequently always slipping.
3. The resources required for GTA03 are 3X those required for Project B.
4. We don't have 3X.

So, we picked plan B.

Now comes the question, what about GTA03? how do we get there? And when?
and what is it?

Well my basic argument was and is this:

First we attend to the issues that still remain with the GTA02. That's
why the VP of marketing ( of all people) is working on the buzz fix
problem. Second we complete project B. When we've done that, then we
get to eat dessert. Essentially, I made the same argument I heard so
many times on this list: "How do expect us to buy a GTA03 when you've
yet to deliver on all the promise of FreeRunner?" And I took the
arguments I heard from disty seriously, "how do you expect us to buy FR,
when GTA03 is right around the corner?" And I accepted the arguments I 
heard from Engineers I respect who questioned the viability of the GTA03 
in the market place. All of those arguments said "put a bullet in its 
brain pan!"

  So, what about GTA03? As it was defined, it is dead. So how do we
get to a new GTA03? Two requirements: continue to improve GTA02; deliver
on project B. What is GTA03 and when do we get there? There are a number
of independent efforts out there that are pitching me ideas for GTA03.
I talked to sean a bit about this and I'd like to try to open up more
of the design process and the marketing process to the community.
Perhaps on a separate list. Some of these discussions have already started.

What can you do to help?
1. Move GTA02 code upstream.
2. Stay Involved.
3. Continue work on applications
4. Buy a FreeRunner.
5. Get involved in GTA03 discussions

Best,

Steve


Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:35:58 +0100 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org> said:
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
>>> 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>:
>>>> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
>>>>> He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying
>>>>> that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put
>>>>> in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units).
>>>> You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G
>>>> will get my money as far as I'm concerned :)
>>> Why the outrage?
>> I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that
>> gets less and less Free as new devices come up :)
>>
>> I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had
>> regarding that.
> 
> 3g can be done - just like the 2g on feeerunner - you will talk to a closed
> blob via a defined protocol. just like any chip anywhere. no less free than
> gta02 in that way. BUT yes - you'll pay an extra $200.
> 
> nb gta03 - you missed the news from sean's talk at openexpo in switzerland.
> gta03 is "postponed" (read cancelled - postponed is just a nice way to say it
> and try and keep the community hanging around in hope it un-cancels, as
> openmoko has laid off most of their staff (also news from openexpo), their
> linux staff. you don't un-postpone if you just let all the people go who work
> on the software).
> 



From joe at neoturbine.net  Fri Apr  3 07:46:15 2009
From: joe at neoturbine.net (Joseph Jon Booker)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 00:46:15 -0500
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
	<20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <20090403004615.0b5ef3a7@fenrir>

ASU was like this while people were testing and expecting new 2007
releases. Diversity was like this. It seems like FSO started like this
(I could be wrong).

Can the internal company communication be more open? It's annoying if
every 6 months another somewhat secret project is going to come to
light. It's honestly getting tiresome

-- 
Joseph Booker
-------------- next part --------------
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From timo.lindfors at iki.fi  Fri Apr  3 07:44:27 2009
From: timo.lindfors at iki.fi (Timo Juhani Lindfors)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 08:44:27 +0300
Subject: Using 3G USB dongle [Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G
	device]
In-Reply-To: <49D52D5F.7060100@gmail.com> (captain.deadly@gmail.com's message
	of "Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:25:51 +0100")
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D52D5F.7060100@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <84bpreqojo.fsf_-_@sauna.l.org>

Arigead <captain.deadly at gmail.com> writes:
> If you could get a hold of the plastic spacer could you then take a 3.5G
> USB Dongle and put that into the space? I think that 3.5G USB Dongles

I have been using E169 dongle quite a lot with freerunner. Since I did
some udev setup [1] the hassle is minimal: I just plug the dongle to
freerunner, click menu to set usb host mode and it'll automatically
connect to network.

If there's some way to automatically detect a usb device then I could
have freerunner automatically switch to host mode and avoid the need
to click anything to and have complete "plug and play" experience.

[1]

$ head neo/2009-04-03/etc/udev/rules.d/E169.rules
ACTION!="add", GOTO="E169_rules_end"
SUBSYSTEM=="usb_device", GOTO="E169_rules_real"
BUS!="usb", GOTO="E169_rules_end"

LABEL="E169_rules_real"

SYSFS{idVendor}=="12d1", SYSFS{idProduct}=="1001", RUN="/usr/bin/pon E169"

LABEL="E169_rules_end"




From raster at rasterman.com  Fri Apr  3 08:17:17 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 17:17:17 +1100
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
	<20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <20090403171717.4096081a.raster@rasterman.com>

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:27:43 -0700 Steve Mosher <steve at openmoko.com> said:

nice steve :) and yes - i put a bit of color in. :) my opinions are not those
of openmoko nor do they divine om's future... it's just my interpretation of
the facts as they come out :)

> Since I worked on the presentation with Sean for the days he was here in
> SF, let me give you my view and sean's view. That way we won't get into
> some version of the telephone game.
> 
> Sean discussed three things at OpenExpo.
> 
> 1. Our successes.
> 2. Our mistakes.
> 3. Our challenges
> 
> I won't go over 1& 2 but I'll cover #3 since rasters perception has
> a bit of color added to it. Only a tiny bit and he's entitled
> to that color commentary, I'll just add what Sean and I, as authors
> of the presentation, had as our message.
> 
> Our biggest challenge was to make a choice about how to spend the
> balance of 2009.
> 
> There were two paths:
> A: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch GTA03
> B: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and  launch project B.
> 
> We will talk more about project B in the coming months, but these
> salient facts should be able to guide any budding executives out there.
> 
> 1. GTA03 was in constant flux as a design.
> 2. GTA03 schedule was consequently always slipping.
> 3. The resources required for GTA03 are 3X those required for Project B.
> 4. We don't have 3X.
> 
> So, we picked plan B.
> 
> Now comes the question, what about GTA03? how do we get there? And when?
> and what is it?
> 
> Well my basic argument was and is this:
> 
> First we attend to the issues that still remain with the GTA02. That's
> why the VP of marketing ( of all people) is working on the buzz fix
> problem. Second we complete project B. When we've done that, then we
> get to eat dessert. Essentially, I made the same argument I heard so
> many times on this list: "How do expect us to buy a GTA03 when you've
> yet to deliver on all the promise of FreeRunner?" And I took the
> arguments I heard from disty seriously, "how do you expect us to buy FR,
> when GTA03 is right around the corner?" And I accepted the arguments I 
> heard from Engineers I respect who questioned the viability of the GTA03 
> in the market place. All of those arguments said "put a bullet in its 
> brain pan!"
> 
>   So, what about GTA03? As it was defined, it is dead. So how do we
> get to a new GTA03? Two requirements: continue to improve GTA02; deliver
> on project B. What is GTA03 and when do we get there? There are a number
> of independent efforts out there that are pitching me ideas for GTA03.
> I talked to sean a bit about this and I'd like to try to open up more
> of the design process and the marketing process to the community.
> Perhaps on a separate list. Some of these discussions have already started.
> 
> What can you do to help?
> 1. Move GTA02 code upstream.
> 2. Stay Involved.
> 3. Continue work on applications
> 4. Buy a FreeRunner.
> 5. Get involved in GTA03 discussions
> 
> Best,
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:35:58 +0100 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>
> > said:
> > 
> >> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
> >>> 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>:
> >>>> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
> >>>>> He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying
> >>>>> that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put
> >>>>> in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units).
> >>>> You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G
> >>>> will get my money as far as I'm concerned :)
> >>> Why the outrage?
> >> I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that
> >> gets less and less Free as new devices come up :)
> >>
> >> I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had
> >> regarding that.
> > 
> > 3g can be done - just like the 2g on feeerunner - you will talk to a closed
> > blob via a defined protocol. just like any chip anywhere. no less free than
> > gta02 in that way. BUT yes - you'll pay an extra $200.
> > 
> > nb gta03 - you missed the news from sean's talk at openexpo in switzerland.
> > gta03 is "postponed" (read cancelled - postponed is just a nice way to say
> > it and try and keep the community hanging around in hope it un-cancels, as
> > openmoko has laid off most of their staff (also news from openexpo), their
> > linux staff. you don't un-postpone if you just let all the people go who
> > work on the software).
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 


-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From hns at computer.org  Fri Apr  3 08:31:44 2009
From: hns at computer.org (Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 08:31:44 +0200
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
	<20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <D26D4152-83A7-4EA1-99F9-7AF488BF4DB6@computer.org>

>
> Sean discussed three things at OpenExpo.
>
> 1. Our successes.
> 2. Our mistakes.
> 3. Our challenges
>
> I won't go over 1& 2 but I'll cover #3 since rasters perception has
> a bit of color added to it. Only a tiny bit and he's entitled
> to that color commentary, I'll just add what Sean and I, as authors
> of the presentation, had as our message.

Is it possible for you to upload the slides somewhere so that we can  
read what was presented? Or is there some video?

Nikolaus



From ueli.peter at bluewin.ch  Fri Apr  3 08:43:28 2009
From: ueli.peter at bluewin.ch (ueli.peter at bluewin.ch)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 06:43:28 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
Message-ID: <20036944.17911238741008438.JavaMail.webmail@ps5zhb.bluewin.ch>

Here is the link: http://www.openexpo.ch/fileadmin/documents/2009Bern/Slides/BusinessTrack/01_SeanMossPultz.pdf

Ueli



From gecco at napodano.com  Fri Apr  3 09:32:01 2009
From: gecco at napodano.com (Carlo Minucci)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:32:01 +0200
Subject: new version of gtkaddpoit
Message-ID: <49D5BB71.2020407@napodano.com>

i have release a new version of gtkaddpoi 
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gtkaddpoi

now you can search a POI and add to Navit bookmark

don't forget to donate something at http://minucci.net/openmoko.php :D



From steve at openmoko.com  Fri Apr  3 09:33:21 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 00:33:21 -0700
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <7c9d57ea0904022238y25e6da12g84b95474bddf7075@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>	
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>	
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>	
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>	
	<20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>	
	<49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com>
	<7c9d57ea0904022238y25e6da12g84b95474bddf7075@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D5BBC1.5070502@openmoko.com>




Sargun Dhillon wrote:
> When will project B be announced?

I have not made a final decision. First I need a solid schedule from 
engineering. That is, a schedule, with a high probability of hitting its 
target.
Given the channels I expect to launch this in, there is no leeway for
slips. I'm talking about schedule certainty down to the week if not day.
Right now as a placeholder date for the announcement I have a day 
selected in august.



> 
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Steve Mosher <steve at openmoko.com> wrote:
>> Since I worked on the presentation with Sean for the days he was here in
>> SF, let me give you my view and sean's view. That way we won't get into
>> some version of the telephone game.
>>
>> Sean discussed three things at OpenExpo.
>>
>> 1. Our successes.
>> 2. Our mistakes.
>> 3. Our challenges
>>
>> I won't go over 1& 2 but I'll cover #3 since rasters perception has
>> a bit of color added to it. Only a tiny bit and he's entitled
>> to that color commentary, I'll just add what Sean and I, as authors
>> of the presentation, had as our message.
>>
>> Our biggest challenge was to make a choice about how to spend the
>> balance of 2009.
>>
>> There were two paths:
>> A: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch GTA03
>> B: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and  launch project B.
>>
>> We will talk more about project B in the coming months, but these
>> salient facts should be able to guide any budding executives out there.
>>
>> 1. GTA03 was in constant flux as a design.
>> 2. GTA03 schedule was consequently always slipping.
>> 3. The resources required for GTA03 are 3X those required for Project B.
>> 4. We don't have 3X.
>>
>> So, we picked plan B.
>>
>> Now comes the question, what about GTA03? how do we get there? And when?
>> and what is it?
>>
>> Well my basic argument was and is this:
>>
>> First we attend to the issues that still remain with the GTA02. That's
>> why the VP of marketing ( of all people) is working on the buzz fix
>> problem. Second we complete project B. When we've done that, then we
>> get to eat dessert. Essentially, I made the same argument I heard so
>> many times on this list: "How do expect us to buy a GTA03 when you've
>> yet to deliver on all the promise of FreeRunner?" And I took the
>> arguments I heard from disty seriously, "how do you expect us to buy FR,
>> when GTA03 is right around the corner?" And I accepted the arguments I
>> heard from Engineers I respect who questioned the viability of the GTA03
>> in the market place. All of those arguments said "put a bullet in its
>> brain pan!"
>>
>>  So, what about GTA03? As it was defined, it is dead. So how do we
>> get to a new GTA03? Two requirements: continue to improve GTA02; deliver
>> on project B. What is GTA03 and when do we get there? There are a number
>> of independent efforts out there that are pitching me ideas for GTA03.
>> I talked to sean a bit about this and I'd like to try to open up more
>> of the design process and the marketing process to the community.
>> Perhaps on a separate list. Some of these discussions have already started.
>>
>> What can you do to help?
>> 1. Move GTA02 code upstream.
>> 2. Stay Involved.
>> 3. Continue work on applications
>> 4. Buy a FreeRunner.
>> 5. Get involved in GTA03 discussions
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:35:58 +0100 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org> said:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
>>>>> 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>:
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
>>>>>>> He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying
>>>>>>> that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put
>>>>>>> in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units).
>>>>>> You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G
>>>>>> will get my money as far as I'm concerned :)
>>>>> Why the outrage?
>>>> I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that
>>>> gets less and less Free as new devices come up :)
>>>>
>>>> I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had
>>>> regarding that.
>>> 3g can be done - just like the 2g on feeerunner - you will talk to a closed
>>> blob via a defined protocol. just like any chip anywhere. no less free than
>>> gta02 in that way. BUT yes - you'll pay an extra $200.
>>>
>>> nb gta03 - you missed the news from sean's talk at openexpo in switzerland.
>>> gta03 is "postponed" (read cancelled - postponed is just a nice way to say it
>>> and try and keep the community hanging around in hope it un-cancels, as
>>> openmoko has laid off most of their staff (also news from openexpo), their
>>> linux staff. you don't un-postpone if you just let all the people go who work
>>> on the software).
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>



From captain.deadly at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 09:36:53 2009
From: captain.deadly at gmail.com (Arigead)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 08:36:53 +0100
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>	<20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <49D5BC95.7040706@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Steve Mosher wrote:
> Since I worked on the presentation with Sean for the days he was here in
> SF, let me give you my view and sean's view. That way we won't get into
> some version of the telephone game.
> 
> Sean discussed three things at OpenExpo.
> 
> 1. Our successes.
> 2. Our mistakes.
> 3. Our challenges
> 
> I won't go over 1& 2 but I'll cover #3 since rasters perception has
> a bit of color added to it. Only a tiny bit and he's entitled
> to that color commentary, I'll just add what Sean and I, as authors
> of the presentation, had as our message.
> 
> Our biggest challenge was to make a choice about how to spend the
> balance of 2009.
> 
> There were two paths:
> A: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch GTA03
> B: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and  launch project B.
> 
> We will talk more about project B in the coming months, but these
> salient facts should be able to guide any budding executives out there.
> 
> 1. GTA03 was in constant flux as a design.
> 2. GTA03 schedule was consequently always slipping.
> 3. The resources required for GTA03 are 3X those required for Project B.
> 4. We don't have 3X.
> 
> So, we picked plan B.
> 
> Now comes the question, what about GTA03? how do we get there? And when?
> and what is it?
> 
> Well my basic argument was and is this:
> 
> First we attend to the issues that still remain with the GTA02. That's
> why the VP of marketing ( of all people) is working on the buzz fix
> problem. Second we complete project B. When we've done that, then we
> get to eat dessert. Essentially, I made the same argument I heard so
> many times on this list: "How do expect us to buy a GTA03 when you've
> yet to deliver on all the promise of FreeRunner?" And I took the
> arguments I heard from disty seriously, "how do you expect us to buy FR,
> when GTA03 is right around the corner?" And I accepted the arguments I 
> heard from Engineers I respect who questioned the viability of the GTA03 
> in the market place. All of those arguments said "put a bullet in its 
> brain pan!"
> 
>   So, what about GTA03? As it was defined, it is dead. So how do we
> get to a new GTA03? Two requirements: continue to improve GTA02; deliver
> on project B. What is GTA03 and when do we get there? There are a number
> of independent efforts out there that are pitching me ideas for GTA03.
> I talked to sean a bit about this and I'd like to try to open up more
> of the design process and the marketing process to the community.
> Perhaps on a separate list. Some of these discussions have already started.
> 
> What can you do to help?
> 1. Move GTA02 code upstream.
> 2. Stay Involved.
> 3. Continue work on applications
> 4. Buy a FreeRunner.
> 5. Get involved in GTA03 discussions
> 
> Best,
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:35:58 +0100 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org> said:
>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
>>>> 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>:
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
>>>>>> He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying
>>>>>> that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put
>>>>>> in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units).
>>>>> You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G
>>>>> will get my money as far as I'm concerned :)
>>>> Why the outrage?
>>> I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that
>>> gets less and less Free as new devices come up :)
>>>
>>> I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had
>>> regarding that.
>> 3g can be done - just like the 2g on feeerunner - you will talk to a closed
>> blob via a defined protocol. just like any chip anywhere. no less free than
>> gta02 in that way. BUT yes - you'll pay an extra $200.
>>
>> nb gta03 - you missed the news from sean's talk at openexpo in switzerland.
>> gta03 is "postponed" (read cancelled - postponed is just a nice way to say it
>> and try and keep the community hanging around in hope it un-cancels, as
>> openmoko has laid off most of their staff (also news from openexpo), their
>> linux staff. you don't un-postpone if you just let all the people go who work
>> on the software).
>>

Thanks for the clarification Steve, Carsten had be worried there for a
moment. Can I say that I'm using the FR as my Daily Phone and I'm as
happy as a pig in shit that when I find the time I can write new apps
and improve existing apps. I think most of the people on these lists
appreciates the philosophy of Open Source. I for one would love for Open
Moko to make that philosophy successful in the Hardware arena.
Regardless of what you produce as Plan B, even if it's a hair
straightener, I'll buy one. ;-)

Best of luck and keep us informed.

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From miguelangel.co at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 09:45:37 2009
From: miguelangel.co at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Miguel_=C3=81ngel_Calder=C3=B3n?=)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:45:37 +0200
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <20090403113020.f18fa7b3.raster@rasterman.com>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113020.f18fa7b3.raster@rasterman.com>
Message-ID: <84276b9b0904030045w48d64985j24cb40313df9219d@mail.gmail.com>

2009/4/3 Carsten Haitzler <raster at rasterman.com>

>
>
> so the other side of that is to do everything with the cpu in system ram
> and
> transfer to the glamo when done - so you only deal with the slow write
> once, at
> the end. but remember the write - when being done, will hold the cpu
> hostage
> and as it is now slowed down to 1/6th its normal speed during this write -
> you
> lose even more cpu power.
>
> the solution is to just update less of the screen, make drawing simple so
> the
> cpu has to do less when software-rendering, and/or drop down to qvga.
>
> please dig over the archives of this list. this has been gone over in gory
> detail before :)
>

Hi Raster. Thanks for your splendid presentation of the graphics issue... I
didn't
manage to find it from the archives.

What really surprises me is the fact that if this is so clear, why is
Comunity not working
on qvga graphics yet? Is it not a waste of time to try to get glamo fully
working and then
keep on going over VGA resolution?

I'd prefer to drive the funnier modest car than to have the ferrary parked
outside... I though
linux and free software people were mostly this way.

--
There is no spoon
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From openmoko at humilis.net  Fri Apr  3 09:48:51 2009
From: openmoko at humilis.net (Sander)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:48:51 +0200
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <a6af4cea0904021110v7fc09a4bl7f318f72aeeacb0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021110v7fc09a4bl7f318f72aeeacb0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090403074851.GB22406@cumulus>

Justyn Butler wrote (ao):
> 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>:
> > I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that
> > gets less and less Free as new devices come up :)
> 
> Well due to the expense it is clear that no 3G device is going to be
> Openmoko's main phone for a long time. No one is going to stop anyone
> buying a non-3G Openmoko phone.
> 
> What this is suggesting, I suppose, is a 3G derivative if there was
> serious demand (or should I say, concrete demand in the form of a
> large order. I personally demand it quite seriously!).
> While it is a shame that the 3G part would be closed, it would clearly
> be a legal necessity. It would be that or no 3G version at all.

What about a FR without 3G but with a 'normal' size USB2.0 port in which
you can plug a 3G dongle?

This has several advantages:

o FR would be more free
o FR would be less expensive
o only one expensive heavy duty 3G contract for both your FR and your laptop
o upgrading of 3G without the need for upgrading the FR

FR would still have GPRS in this scenario.

The USB port would be on the edge of the FR where we find the AUX button
now. This would make the dongle point more or less upwards in both
landscape and portrait mode.

Related to this I'm looking for a converter between the small USB port
on the FR and a 3G USB dongle (or a USB keyboard). I've searched but not
found any. Any tips?

	With kind regards, Sander

-- 
Humilis IT Services and Solutions
http://www.humilis.net



From openmoko at humilis.net  Fri Apr  3 09:59:49 2009
From: openmoko at humilis.net (Sander)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:59:49 +0200
Subject: Using 3G USB dongle [Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a
	3G device]
In-Reply-To: <84bpreqojo.fsf_-_@sauna.l.org>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D52D5F.7060100@gmail.com> <84bpreqojo.fsf_-_@sauna.l.org>
Message-ID: <20090403075949.GC22406@cumulus>

Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote (ao):
> Arigead <captain.deadly at gmail.com> writes:
> > If you could get a hold of the plastic spacer could you then take a 3.5G
> > USB Dongle and put that into the space? I think that 3.5G USB Dongles
> 
> I have been using E169 dongle quite a lot with freerunner.

What do you use to connect the dongle and the FR? I'm looking for a
converter between the small FR port and the large dongle port.

	With kind regards, Sander

-- 
Humilis IT Services and Solutions
http://www.humilis.net



From openmoko at humilis.net  Thu Apr  2 09:54:33 2009
From: openmoko at humilis.net (Sander)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 09:54:33 +0200
Subject: Belgium reseller KD85  (was: Re: "$299 ESC San Jose limited time
	Special!" ?)
In-Reply-To: <49D3ECAF.4090603@kapitein.org>
References: <958244340904010700q4dc1cac1vae3884d44e14edd7@mail.gmail.com>
	<bff0f0570904010747g48f280ffrbda501abb966cd27@mail.gmail.com>
	<958244340904010758i404170r3944072b70f4ba12@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D3ECAF.4090603@kapitein.org>
Message-ID: <20090402075433.GA21709@cumulus>

Ed Kapitein wrote (ao):
> That is where i got my  FR.
> Good reseller, i would buy there again.

I second that: bought my FreeRunner at KD85 last october and had some
questions about the delivery. Wim reacted very quickly and the phone
arrived within a few days at my address in The Netherlands.

	With kind regards, Sander


> Joseph Reeves wrote:
> > That would make sense...
> >
> > After a bit of googling for "belgium openmoko" (a perfectly normal
> > search term, honest...) I found this reseller that I'd never seen
> > before:
> >
> > https://kd85.com/openmoko.html
> >
> > Seems to have taken delivery of 180/200:
> >
> > http://openmoko.kd85.com/images/
> >
> > and is selling them on at a very good price, has been doing so since
> > November last year. Openmoko stock clearance?
> >
> > Cheers, Joseph

-- 
Humilis IT Services and Solutions
http://www.humilis.net



From kimaidou at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 10:01:40 2009
From: kimaidou at gmail.com (kimaidou)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 10:01:40 +0200
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <20090403074851.GB22406@cumulus>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021110v7fc09a4bl7f318f72aeeacb0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090403074851.GB22406@cumulus>
Message-ID: <40cd9ce40904030101j5297752bub10078871fe8a726@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

There are a lot of small usb convertissers :
http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000TCSYFC/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=A88Q2E8PA1VAL
http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B000TCSYES

I use them with my Keyboard and usb stick, and it workds well

Could someone give some link to working 3G usb dongles ?

Kimaidou

2009/4/3 Sander <openmoko at humilis.net>

> Justyn Butler wrote (ao):
> > 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>:
> > > I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that
> > > gets less and less Free as new devices come up :)
> >
> > Well due to the expense it is clear that no 3G device is going to be
> > Openmoko's main phone for a long time. No one is going to stop anyone
> > buying a non-3G Openmoko phone.
> >
> > What this is suggesting, I suppose, is a 3G derivative if there was
> > serious demand (or should I say, concrete demand in the form of a
> > large order. I personally demand it quite seriously!).
> > While it is a shame that the 3G part would be closed, it would clearly
> > be a legal necessity. It would be that or no 3G version at all.
>
> What about a FR without 3G but with a 'normal' size USB2.0 port in which
> you can plug a 3G dongle?
>
> This has several advantages:
>
> o FR would be more free
> o FR would be less expensive
> o only one expensive heavy duty 3G contract for both your FR and your
> laptop
> o upgrading of 3G without the need for upgrading the FR
>
> FR would still have GPRS in this scenario.
>
> The USB port would be on the edge of the FR where we find the AUX button
> now. This would make the dongle point more or less upwards in both
> landscape and portrait mode.
>
> Related to this I'm looking for a converter between the small USB port
> on the FR and a 3G USB dongle (or a USB keyboard). I've searched but not
> found any. Any tips?
>
>        With kind regards, Sander
>
> --
> Humilis IT Services and Solutions
> http://www.humilis.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
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From raster at rasterman.com  Fri Apr  3 10:02:01 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 19:02:01 +1100
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <84276b9b0904030045w48d64985j24cb40313df9219d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113020.f18fa7b3.raster@rasterman.com>
	<84276b9b0904030045w48d64985j24cb40313df9219d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090403190201.0872a7c8.raster@rasterman.com>

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:45:37 +0200 Miguel ?ngel Calder?n
<miguelangel.co at gmail.com> said:

> 2009/4/3 Carsten Haitzler <raster at rasterman.com>
> 
> >
> >
> > so the other side of that is to do everything with the cpu in system ram
> > and
> > transfer to the glamo when done - so you only deal with the slow write
> > once, at
> > the end. but remember the write - when being done, will hold the cpu
> > hostage
> > and as it is now slowed down to 1/6th its normal speed during this write -
> > you
> > lose even more cpu power.
> >
> > the solution is to just update less of the screen, make drawing simple so
> > the
> > cpu has to do less when software-rendering, and/or drop down to qvga.
> >
> > please dig over the archives of this list. this has been gone over in gory
> > detail before :)
> >
> 
> Hi Raster. Thanks for your splendid presentation of the graphics issue... I
> didn't
> manage to find it from the archives.
> 
> What really surprises me is the fact that if this is so clear, why is
> Comunity not working
> on qvga graphics yet? Is it not a waste of time to try to get glamo fully
> working and then
> keep on going over VGA resolution?

1. for a while qvga was broken and didnt work -0 not sure if it was fixed.
2. qvga means you no longer can "impress people with your amazing high dpi
screen" (you no longer can play showoff).
3. qvga on this screen really does look blocky as pixels are doubled... :)

> I'd prefer to drive the funnier modest car than to have the ferrary parked
> outside... I though
> linux and free software people were mostly this way.

i even bandied the idea about before gta02 release to drop to a qvga lcd -
cheaper than vga, and more appropriate to the hw behind it - but there was
pretty much a very vocal group saying "hell no way". so vga it is. you are free
to try run it at qvga if you want - but i suspect you wont have many friends
following you :)


-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From guru at unixarea.de  Fri Apr  3 10:06:26 2009
From: guru at unixarea.de (Matthias Apitz)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 10:06:26 +0200
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <20090403074851.GB22406@cumulus>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021110v7fc09a4bl7f318f72aeeacb0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090403074851.GB22406@cumulus>
Message-ID: <20090403080625.GB4256@rebelion.Sisis.de>

El d?a Friday, April 03, 2009 a las 09:48:51AM +0200, Sander escribi?:

> What about a FR without 3G but with a 'normal' size USB2.0 port in which
> you can plug a 3G dongle?
> 
> This has several advantages:
> 
> o FR would be more free
> o FR would be less expensive
> o only one expensive heavy duty 3G contract for both your FR and your laptop
> o upgrading of 3G without the need for upgrading the FR
> 
> FR would still have GPRS in this scenario.
> 
> The USB port would be on the edge of the FR where we find the AUX button
> now. This would make the dongle point more or less upwards in both
> landscape and portrait mode.
> 
> Related to this I'm looking for a converter between the small USB port
> on the FR and a 3G USB dongle (or a USB keyboard). I've searched but not
> found any. Any tips?

Interesting. I have an USB dongle Huawei E220 which I'm using for my
EeePC laptop to go to Internet via UMTS. This E220 is a small puck with
a small USB connector, comes with a short (10cm) cable to connect it to
a normal USB port of a laptop. I was already thinking in buying a short
cable with small USB connectors on both ends (or even just something like
a stick having small USB connectors on both ends without any cable) to
connect this E220 as well to my FR and use the pppd in the FR...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei_E220

	matthias


-- 
Matthias Apitz
Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH
Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany
t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211
e <matthias.apitz at oclc.org> - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/



From captain.deadly at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 10:10:14 2009
From: captain.deadly at gmail.com (Arigead)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:10:14 +0100
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <20090403074851.GB22406@cumulus>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>	<a6af4cea0904021110v7fc09a4bl7f318f72aeeacb0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090403074851.GB22406@cumulus>
Message-ID: <49D5C466.6040504@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Sander wrote:
> 
> Related to this I'm looking for a converter between the small USB port
> on the FR and a 3G USB dongle (or a USB keyboard). I've searched but not
> found any. Any tips?
> 

I just use the usb micro cable that connects the FR to the PC and stick
a small Gender changer on the 'normal' sized end.

you could try

http://www.usbfirewire.com/uconverters.html
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QdMAn2+rRKyPnD1HNnFRhFxdW18fJmD7
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From pander at users.sourceforge.net  Fri Apr  3 10:10:38 2009
From: pander at users.sourceforge.net (Pander)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:10:38 +0200
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <20090403080625.GB4256@rebelion.Sisis.de>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>	<a6af4cea0904021110v7fc09a4bl7f318f72aeeacb0d@mail.gmail.com>	<20090403074851.GB22406@cumulus>
	<20090403080625.GB4256@rebelion.Sisis.de>
Message-ID: <49D5C47E.3070605@users.sourceforge.net>

I had my FreeRunner replaced (under guarantee) by broken mini USB
connector. These things are much more vulnerable than normal USB. Hence,
I vote for normal USB.

Matthias Apitz wrote:
> El d?a Friday, April 03, 2009 a las 09:48:51AM +0200, Sander escribi?:
> 
>> What about a FR without 3G but with a 'normal' size USB2.0 port in which
>> you can plug a 3G dongle?
>>
>> This has several advantages:
>>
>> o FR would be more free
>> o FR would be less expensive
>> o only one expensive heavy duty 3G contract for both your FR and your laptop
>> o upgrading of 3G without the need for upgrading the FR
>>
>> FR would still have GPRS in this scenario.
>>
>> The USB port would be on the edge of the FR where we find the AUX button
>> now. This would make the dongle point more or less upwards in both
>> landscape and portrait mode.
>>
>> Related to this I'm looking for a converter between the small USB port
>> on the FR and a 3G USB dongle (or a USB keyboard). I've searched but not
>> found any. Any tips?
> 
> Interesting. I have an USB dongle Huawei E220 which I'm using for my
> EeePC laptop to go to Internet via UMTS. This E220 is a small puck with
> a small USB connector, comes with a short (10cm) cable to connect it to
> a normal USB port of a laptop. I was already thinking in buying a short
> cable with small USB connectors on both ends (or even just something like
> a stick having small USB connectors on both ends without any cable) to
> connect this E220 as well to my FR and use the pppd in the FR...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei_E220
> 
> 	matthias
> 
> 




From openmoko at humilis.net  Fri Apr  3 10:10:51 2009
From: openmoko at humilis.net (Sander)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 10:10:51 +0200
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <40cd9ce40904030101j5297752bub10078871fe8a726@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021110v7fc09a4bl7f318f72aeeacb0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090403074851.GB22406@cumulus>
	<40cd9ce40904030101j5297752bub10078871fe8a726@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090403081051.GA5911@cumulus>

kimaidou wrote (ao):
>    There are a lot of small usb convertissers :
>    [1]http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000TCSYFC/ref=ord_cart_shr?_e
>    ncoding=UTF8&m=A88Q2E8PA1VAL
>    [2]http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B000TCSYES
>    I use them with my Keyboard and usb stick, and it workds well

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

>    Could someone give some link to working 3G usb dongles ?

Can't help you there, sorry. I'm about to try a Huawei E180.

	With kind regards, Sander

-- 
Humilis IT Services and Solutions
http://www.humilis.net



From rixed at happyleptic.org  Fri Apr  3 10:11:15 2009
From: rixed at happyleptic.org (rixed at happyleptic.org)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 10:11:15 +0200
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <84276b9b0904030045w48d64985j24cb40313df9219d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113020.f18fa7b3.raster@rasterman.com>
	<84276b9b0904030045w48d64985j24cb40313df9219d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090403081115.GD22906@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>

-[ Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 09:45:37AM +0200, Miguel ?ngel Calder?n ]----
> What really surprises me is the fact that if this is so clear, why is
> Comunity not working on qvga graphics yet?
> (...)
> I'd prefer to drive the funnier modest car than to have the ferrary parked
> outside... I though linux and free software people were mostly this way.

I was feeling exactly the same, and will try qvga asap.




From captain.deadly at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 10:16:39 2009
From: captain.deadly at gmail.com (Arigead)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:16:39 +0100
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <40cd9ce40904030101j5297752bub10078871fe8a726@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>	<a6af4cea0904021110v7fc09a4bl7f318f72aeeacb0d@mail.gmail.com>	<20090403074851.GB22406@cumulus>
	<40cd9ce40904030101j5297752bub10078871fe8a726@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D5C5E7.10107@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

kimaidou wrote:
> Hi
> 
> There are a lot of small usb convertissers :
> http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000TCSYFC/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=A88Q2E8PA1VAL
> <http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000TCSYFC/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=A88Q2E8PA1VAL>
> http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B000TCSYES
> 
> I use them with my Keyboard and usb stick, and it workds well
> 
> Could someone give some link to working 3G usb dongles ?
> 

I think a lot of 3G usb dongles are supported by the usb/serial/option
driver. I know that was the kernel module my Huawei was using. The code
has a long list of supported devices. I've only got an old kernel open
at the moment but from the 2.6.20-19 kernel code from option.c is below.
Check out the later kernel that the FR uses as far more have been added
as far as I know.

/* Vendor and product IDs */
#define OPTION_VENDOR_ID                0x0AF0
#define HUAWEI_VENDOR_ID                0x12D1
#define AUDIOVOX_VENDOR_ID              0x0F3D
#define NOVATELWIRELESS_VENDOR_ID       0x1410
#define ANYDATA_VENDOR_ID               0x16d5

#define OPTION_PRODUCT_OLD              0x5000
#define OPTION_PRODUCT_FUSION           0x6000
#define OPTION_PRODUCT_FUSION2          0x6300
#define OPTION_PRODUCT_COBRA            0x6500
#define OPTION_PRODUCT_COBRA2           0x6600
#define OPTION_PRODUCT_GTMAX36          0x6701
#define HUAWEI_PRODUCT_E600             0x1001
#define HUAWEI_PRODUCT_E220             0x1003
#define AUDIOVOX_PRODUCT_AIRCARD        0x0112
#define NOVATELWIRELESS_PRODUCT_U740    0x1400
#define ANYDATA_PRODUCT_ID              0x6501

static struct usb_device_id option_ids[] = {
	{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_OLD) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_FUSION) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_FUSION2) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_COBRA) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_COBRA2) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_GTMAX36) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(HUAWEI_VENDOR_ID, HUAWEI_PRODUCT_E600) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(HUAWEI_VENDOR_ID, HUAWEI_PRODUCT_E220) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(AUDIOVOX_VENDOR_ID, AUDIOVOX_PRODUCT_AIRCARD) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(NOVATELWIRELESS_VENDOR_ID,NOVATELWIRELESS_PRODUCT_U740) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(ANYDATA_VENDOR_ID, ANYDATA_PRODUCT_ID) },
	{ } /* Terminating entry */
};

static struct usb_device_id option_ids1[] = {
	{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_OLD) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_FUSION) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_FUSION2) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_COBRA) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_COBRA2) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_GTMAX36) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(HUAWEI_VENDOR_ID, HUAWEI_PRODUCT_E600) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(HUAWEI_VENDOR_ID, HUAWEI_PRODUCT_E220) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(AUDIOVOX_VENDOR_ID, AUDIOVOX_PRODUCT_AIRCARD) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(NOVATELWIRELESS_VENDOR_ID,NOVATELWIRELESS_PRODUCT_U740) },
	{ USB_DEVICE(ANYDATA_VENDOR_ID, ANYDATA_PRODUCT_ID) },
	{ } /* Terminating entry */
};
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From joakim at verona.se  Fri Apr  3 10:29:07 2009
From: joakim at verona.se (joakim at verona.se)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:29:07 +0200
Subject: Graphics Performance
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113020.f18fa7b3.raster@rasterman.com>
	<84276b9b0904030045w48d64985j24cb40313df9219d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090403081115.GD22906@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
Message-ID: <m3ocve6sz0.fsf@verona.se>

rixed at happyleptic.org writes:

> -[ Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 09:45:37AM +0200, Miguel ?ngel Calder?n ]----
>> What really surprises me is the fact that if this is so clear, why is
>> Comunity not working on qvga graphics yet?
>> (...)
>> I'd prefer to drive the funnier modest car than to have the ferrary parked
>> outside... I though linux and free software people were mostly this way.
>
> I was feeling exactly the same, and will try qvga asap.

I feel the "ferrari" analogy is broken. it depends on what you would
like to do with the device. Moving bling bling is not efficient, Ok.
Things that demand high resolution, like ebooks and emacs work fine.

-- 
Joakim Verona




From raster at rasterman.com  Fri Apr  3 10:39:04 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 19:39:04 +1100
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <m3ocve6sz0.fsf@verona.se>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113020.f18fa7b3.raster@rasterman.com>
	<84276b9b0904030045w48d64985j24cb40313df9219d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090403081115.GD22906@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
	<m3ocve6sz0.fsf@verona.se>
Message-ID: <20090403193904.f4cc83a6.raster@rasterman.com>

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:29:07 +0200 joakim at verona.se said:

> rixed at happyleptic.org writes:
> 
> > -[ Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 09:45:37AM +0200, Miguel ?ngel Calder?n ]----
> >> What really surprises me is the fact that if this is so clear, why is
> >> Comunity not working on qvga graphics yet?
> >> (...)
> >> I'd prefer to drive the funnier modest car than to have the ferrary parked
> >> outside... I though linux and free software people were mostly this way.
> >
> > I was feeling exactly the same, and will try qvga asap.
> 
> I feel the "ferrari" analogy is broken. it depends on what you would
> like to do with the device. Moving bling bling is not efficient, Ok.
> Things that demand high resolution, like ebooks and emacs work fine.

i think it works well. it looks nice when not moving. still. parked on the side
of the road. it won't do well on the racing track due the lawnmower engine
(which isnt needed for it to look good parked on the roadside).. :)

-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From billk at iinet.net.au  Fri Apr  3 10:44:53 2009
From: billk at iinet.net.au (W.Kenworthy)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:44:53 +0800
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <m3ocve6sz0.fsf@verona.se>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113020.f18fa7b3.raster@rasterman.com>
	<84276b9b0904030045w48d64985j24cb40313df9219d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090403081115.GD22906@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
	<m3ocve6sz0.fsf@verona.se>
Message-ID: <1238748293.8766.9.camel@bunyip.localdomain>

On Fri, 2009-04-03 at 10:29 +0200, joakim at verona.se wrote:
> rixed at happyleptic.org writes:
> 
> > -[ Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 09:45:37AM +0200, Miguel ?ngel Calder?n ]----
> >> What really surprises me is the fact that if this is so clear, why is
> >> Comunity not working on qvga graphics yet?
> >> (...)
> >> I'd prefer to drive the funnier modest car than to have the ferrary parked
> >> outside... I though linux and free software people were mostly this way.
> >
> > I was feeling exactly the same, and will try qvga asap.
> 
> I feel the "ferrari" analogy is broken. it depends on what you would
> like to do with the device. Moving bling bling is not efficient, Ok.
> Things that demand high resolution, like ebooks and emacs work fine.
> 

Exactly, I dont watch movies so thats not important to me - I do however
read text ebooks, use an xterm etc. which is where the hires screen is
really good.  I also have a 320x320 (I think) Palm treo650 - I DO NOT
want to try and do what I can on the FR on that screen - its ok for
video, but doesnt do text well at all.

BillK






From steve at openmoko.com  Fri Apr  3 10:52:57 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 01:52:57 -0700
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <D26D4152-83A7-4EA1-99F9-7AF488BF4DB6@computer.org>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
	<20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com>
	<D26D4152-83A7-4EA1-99F9-7AF488BF4DB6@computer.org>
Message-ID: <49D5CE69.3030901@openmoko.com>

I can upload the files, but Let me tell you how we work
together and you'll see why my email is probably your best bet to
understand things, today.

I work in words. Sean works in pictures.

So by the time we are finished we have a presentation that is all 
pictures. and then sean talks to that.

A video was done. So that's  the best of all because its pictures and words.



Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
>>
>> Sean discussed three things at OpenExpo.
>>
>> 1. Our successes.
>> 2. Our mistakes.
>> 3. Our challenges
>>
>> I won't go over 1& 2 but I'll cover #3 since rasters perception has
>> a bit of color added to it. Only a tiny bit and he's entitled
>> to that color commentary, I'll just add what Sean and I, as authors
>> of the presentation, had as our message.
> 
> Is it possible for you to upload the slides somewhere so that we can 
> read what was presented? Or is there some video?
> 
> Nikolaus



From anas.lbn at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 10:53:39 2009
From: anas.lbn at gmail.com (Anas Alzouhbi)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 10:53:39 +0200
Subject: toolchain
Message-ID: <d4b7a31a0904030153m50de0fe4rd719ecf530a0d9f1@mail.gmail.com>

Hello!
I think that toochain documentation is very important to follow,
I have a problem, in the step . /usr/local/openmoko/arm/setup-env,
this document or file is not found, but I found
./usr/local/openmoko/arm/environment-setup
can I use ./usr/local/openmoko/arm/environment-setup instead of .
/usr/local/openmoko/arm/setup-env, or what to do??
thank you



From timo.lindfors at iki.fi  Fri Apr  3 11:02:06 2009
From: timo.lindfors at iki.fi (Timo Juhani Lindfors)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:02:06 +0300
Subject: Using 3G USB dongle [Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G
	device]
In-Reply-To: <20090403075949.GC22406@cumulus> (openmoko@humilis.net's message
	of "Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:59:49 +0200")
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D52D5F.7060100@gmail.com> <84bpreqojo.fsf_-_@sauna.l.org>
	<20090403075949.GC22406@cumulus>
Message-ID: <84prfup0tt.fsf@sauna.l.org>

Sander <openmoko at humilis.net> writes:
> What do you use to connect the dongle and the FR? I'm looking for a
> converter between the small FR port and the large dongle port.

I just use the data cable that come with freerunner and a USB gender
changer. This way I have minimum number of extra cables with me :-)

I'd love to be able to fit USB devices inside the case but I have not
looked at how to reroute USB easily inside the device.

-Timo




From openmoko at humilis.net  Fri Apr  3 11:11:28 2009
From: openmoko at humilis.net (Sander)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:11:28 +0200
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <49D5C466.6040504@gmail.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021110v7fc09a4bl7f318f72aeeacb0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090403074851.GB22406@cumulus> <49D5C466.6040504@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090403091128.GB5911@cumulus>

Arigead wrote (ao):
> Sander wrote:
> > Related to this I'm looking for a converter between the small USB port
> > on the FR and a 3G USB dongle (or a USB keyboard). I've searched but not
> > found any. Any tips?
> 
> I just use the usb micro cable that connects the FR to the PC and stick
> a small Gender changer on the 'normal' sized end.
> 
> you could try
> 
> http://www.usbfirewire.com/uconverters.html

Thank you Arigead.

I've ordered two of these at:
http://www.kabeltje.com/usb-adapter-a-female-mini-male-p-1286.html

I must have used the wrong keywords in google before.

	With kind regards, Sander

-- 
Humilis IT Services and Solutions
http://www.humilis.net



From martin.der.aze at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 11:18:12 2009
From: martin.der.aze at gmail.com (martin)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:18:12 +0200
Subject: toolchain
In-Reply-To: <d4b7a31a0904030153m50de0fe4rd719ecf530a0d9f1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4b7a31a0904030153m50de0fe4rd719ecf530a0d9f1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5555166d0904030218kc32b226u845ac98c5f8ef9e5@mail.gmail.com>

I remember setup-env being in /usr/local/openmoko/arm/bin now.
Can't check since I'm at work.


2009/4/3 Anas Alzouhbi <anas.lbn at gmail.com>

> Hello!
> I think that toochain documentation is very important to follow,
> I have a problem, in the step . /usr/local/openmoko/arm/setup-env,
> this document or file is not found, but I found
> ./usr/local/openmoko/arm/environment-setup
> can I use ./usr/local/openmoko/arm/environment-setup instead of .
> /usr/local/openmoko/arm/setup-env, or what to do??
> thank you
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From rixed at happyleptic.org  Fri Apr  3 11:20:34 2009
From: rixed at happyleptic.org (rixed at happyleptic.org)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:20:34 +0200
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <m3ocve6sz0.fsf@verona.se>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113020.f18fa7b3.raster@rasterman.com>
	<84276b9b0904030045w48d64985j24cb40313df9219d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090403081115.GD22906@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
	<m3ocve6sz0.fsf@verona.se>
Message-ID: <20090403092034.GA24496@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>

> I feel the "ferrari" analogy is broken. it depends on what you would
> like to do with the device. Moving bling bling is not efficient, Ok.
> Things that demand high resolution, like ebooks and emacs work fine.

I spend some time in the terminal myself, generally to fix something in a
config file or to mount manually something on USB or fix the network
configuration. If the device were working flawlessly and with a good GUI for
all apps, I wouldn't mind not hurting my eyes on the small chars :-)

For working seriously in a terminal I need a keyboard and a large screen anyway
(or a magnifying glass maybe ?). I don't know how you manage emacs with the
various CTRL+ALT+META-x on the virtual keyboard but I sure can not stand it for
more than a few minutes.

As for reading in general (ebooks or web browser), I admin this is certainly
better in a bigger resolution. The same goes for viewing maps. But all in all,
a small gadget with small screen and no keyboard will never replace a desktop
computer. So personnaly I am looking for other use cases for my FR, and a
smaller resolution and better responsiveness is the direction I want to go.




From liedekef at telenet.be  Fri Apr  3 11:27:58 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:27:58 +0200
Subject: latest and greatest, progress mail 2
Message-ID: <60567dcc0904030227y3800788aq364d4895603d9349@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, I know that probably nobody is interested, but I'm mailing it anyway :-)
New progress/bugs:

All Ok:
- alarms (using atd from angstrom, since no newer package exists),
  normal + when suspended
- wake up when receiving sms
- call + echo check
- missed call bug
- duplicate sms thing
- voice notes (see my mail/patch)
- mail ok
- wifi ok

Problems:
- usb cable handling for power charging
  ==> it seems andy-tracking kernel has an issue with power detection on the
usb port, so I'm going to try the "stable" kernel from
http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/unstable/NeoFreerunner/
- bluetooth
  ==> "bluetooth not available" error
- sms stay on SIM as well as on phone
  ==> All sms's are stored on the phone *and* on the SIM. I don't think that
this is wanted behaviour (deleting an SMS only works on the SMS's stored on
the phone)
- I had a crash this morning, might be kernel related as well

Franky
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From nelg at linuxsolutions.co.nz  Fri Apr  3 11:35:41 2009
From: nelg at linuxsolutions.co.nz (Glen Ogilvie)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 22:35:41 +1300
Subject: [QtExtended] Latest and greatest
In-Reply-To: <20090402183934.4c53e78d@telenet.be>
References: <20090402183934.4c53e78d@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <200904032235.43281.nelg@linuxsolutions.co.nz>

On Friday 03 April 2009, Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:
> here are some first results of my tests on a fso-nox image and
> andy-tracking kernel (2.6.28):

> So for me, this seems great! 

Hi Franky,

Is the filesystem image you are testing released anywhere yet?  Sounds like 
they fix most of the bugs that are annoying me, so would be keen to give the 
same version you are using a go.

Regards
Glen Ogilvie
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From leonardo at lilik.it  Fri Apr  3 11:44:29 2009
From: leonardo at lilik.it (leonardo maccari)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:44:29 +0200
Subject: qt-extended-improved unpredictive keyboard
In-Reply-To: <20090402212447.7528a64d@telenet.be>
References: <49D2AAF2.4070109@lilik.it>	<60567dcc0904010245s3277faf0u70565ad5cf44c284@mail.gmail.com>	<49D3F0BF.5000104@lilik.it>
	<20090402212447.7528a64d@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <49D5DA7D.900@lilik.it>

Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 00:54:55 +0200


> This is a nice keyboard, much easier/faster to use than the predictive
> one! The look is not all that, but functionality-wise it is great!

Nice to hear this.
One question, before this layout I was using a layout made of 10 columns 
and 3 rows that let me have an querty keyboard with the same picks as a 
desktop one. But 10 columns is too much to have the keyboard work 
properly so I changed it to 6x5 but now I have a weird layout..
What is the most qwerty-similar layout for a 6x5 keyboard?

ciao,
leonardo.

-- 
http://leonardo.lilik.it
Key fingerprint = 2C20 A587 05AC 42E5 1292  D0D4 3EED CFB5 52FD AD1E



From timo.lindfors at iki.fi  Fri Apr  3 11:45:09 2009
From: timo.lindfors at iki.fi (Timo Juhani Lindfors)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:45:09 +0300
Subject: buzz fix photos
Message-ID: <84hc16oyu2.fsf@sauna.l.org>

Hi,

a colleague of mine did the buzz fix for my freerunner (GTA02V6). The
buzz appears to be gone! See photos and discussion at

http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/buzz-fix/

best regards,
Timo Lindfors




From liedekef at telenet.be  Fri Apr  3 11:54:42 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:54:42 +0200
Subject: [QtExtended] Latest and greatest
In-Reply-To: <200904032235.43281.nelg@linuxsolutions.co.nz>
References: <20090402183934.4c53e78d@telenet.be>
	<200904032235.43281.nelg@linuxsolutions.co.nz>
Message-ID: <60567dcc0904030254vf21564bpf8113aded7edee16@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Glen Ogilvie <nelg at linuxsolutions.co.nz>wrote:

> On Friday 03 April 2009, Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:
> > here are some first results of my tests on a fso-nox image and
> > andy-tracking kernel (2.6.28):
>
> > So for me, this seems great!
>
> Hi Franky,
>
> Is the filesystem image you are testing released anywhere yet?  Sounds like
> they fix most of the bugs that are annoying me, so would be keen to give
> the
> same version you are using a go.
>

Hi,

the filesystem is basically the fso-nox one, with one extra script to launch
qpe at boot (and the fix for the voicenotes app), together with the
andy-tracking kernel. But since this kernel has some bugs, I'm first going
to try the 2.6.28 "stable" kernel (see my latest mail about my progress).
So for now it requires some manual action, and most people don't like that.
But I haven't found the time to create a jffs2 for it yet ...

Franky
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From tonyberth at googlemail.com  Fri Apr  3 11:58:57 2009
From: tonyberth at googlemail.com (Tony Berth)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:58:57 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
Message-ID: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Group,

just tried the latest SHR unstable (both kernel and jffs) and found
following problems:

- when in the boot screen the device gets listed in my debian server as a
usb one but after booting it dissapears from the list! So can't access my FR
any more from my machine!
- tangoGPS still crashes when trying to change the settings :(
- when I place a call, I can't hear any sound that its ringing!

Any advice for the above issues?

Thanks

Tony
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From riso at om.ksp.sk  Fri Apr  3 12:05:03 2009
From: riso at om.ksp.sk (Richard Kralovic)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:05:03 +0200
Subject: Transparent keyboard in illume
In-Reply-To: <40cd9ce40904020130l6a068189j6b572c0f9ce15fd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49B41F29.30802@om.ksp.sk>	<40cd9ce40903081249t317865bbm70fae9da4ea41991@mail.gmail.com>	<26fea52c0903081316p74ff3241l184b12ff35c71eb3@mail.gmail.com>	<ffce06340903081339s11233f44scf8396e0cc9f386f@mail.gmail.com>	<49B42E4C.7050503@om.ksp.sk>
	<49B58C91.3020404@strapp.co.uk>	<49B634B7.8020700@om.ksp.sk>	<1e3adca60903101421i7898b9e1s468c85b82a25682e@mail.gmail.com>	<1e3adca60903120006q38f294a3hf553b10ab04cbe41@mail.gmail.com>	<49B8D5AE.3090409@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904020130l6a068189j6b572c0f9ce15fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D5DF4F.2000908@om.ksp.sk>

> I would like to know if there were some progress on easily installing
> the transparent keyboard (qwo or anyone else) on SHR distribution.
> I think the SHR distro could really benefit on this !

Well, not much of progress. Some time ago, I set up an ipk feed for
shr-unstable that I compiled myself, with all the patched stuff:
http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr-unstable

There are also feeds for shr testing
http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr

and FSO milestone 5 (which is what I am currently using, so it's
probably in a best shape):
http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/fso-ms5

So, basically it should just work if you add this to your opkg feeds:

src/gz meru-all http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr-unstable/ipk/all
src/gz meru-armv4t http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr-unstable/ipk/armv4t
src/gz meru-om-gta02
http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr-unstable/ipk/om-gta02

Then you can just follow the instructions at
http://kedrigern.dcs.fmph.uniba.sk/~riso/Openmoko/qwo/index.html
and install all packages just by opkg install.

But beware, the patch for illume breaks the default keyboard (since it
does not set the width of it and does not resize the application area).
So be ready to install the old version of e-wm if you do not like
transparent qwo. I didn't find time to make a nicer patch on e-wm yet
(it is on my todolist, but quite deep, so patches are welcome)...

Greets
	Richard

> 
> Thanks for any news
> 
> Kimaidou
> 
> 2009/3/12 Richard Kralovic <riso at om.ksp.sk <mailto:riso at om.ksp.sk>>
> 
>     > ... so it's working in 2008.12 - I can supply my patched build of
>     > illume.ipk if anyone wants it - the only problem being the qtopia
> 
>     Great :-). If you wish, send it to me and I can add it to my webpage...
> 
>     > "Options" and "Back" buttons etc attached to the display bottom always
>     > show on top of...
> 
>     I know next to nothing about illume internals, but I'd try to change the
>     parameter of e_border_layer_set in illume.c from 100 to something
>     higher.
> 
>     > Now gotta figure out how to prevent that, or bring qwo even further
>     > forward...
> 
>     The illume patches are really just nasty hacks, I'd love to have some
>     neat patch on illume that automatically checks the X11 atoms of the
>     keyboard and adjusts its behaviour according to that. With that, we
>     might be able to persuade the SHR guys (or even Raster) to accept it.
>     But I do not have much time for that right now :-(.
> 
>     Greets
>            Richard
> 
> 
>     >
>     > Rich
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Openmoko community mailing list
>     > community at lists.openmoko.org <mailto:community at lists.openmoko.org>
>     > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     Openmoko community mailing list
>     community at lists.openmoko.org <mailto:community at lists.openmoko.org>
>     http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community




From billk at iinet.net.au  Fri Apr  3 12:17:48 2009
From: billk at iinet.net.au (W.Kenworthy)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:17:48 +0800
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1238753868.8766.17.camel@bunyip.localdomain>

on the FR "ifdown usb0;ifup usb"

If you are trying to change the default map directory:
	rm -rf ~/Maps
	ln -s YourMapDir ~/Maps

BillK



0On Fri, 2009-04-03 at 11:58 +0200, Tony Berth wrote:
> Dear Group,
> 
> just tried the latest SHR unstable (both kernel and jffs) and found
> following problems:
> 
> - when in the boot screen the device gets listed in my debian server
> as a usb one but after booting it dissapears from the list! So can't
> access my FR any more from my machine!
> - tangoGPS still crashes when trying to change the settings :(
> - when I place a call, I can't hear any sound that its ringing!
> 
> Any advice for the above issues?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tony
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community




From liedekef at telenet.be  Fri Apr  3 12:20:19 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:20:19 +0200
Subject: qt-extended-improved unpredictive keyboard
In-Reply-To: <49D5DA7D.900@lilik.it>
References: <49D2AAF2.4070109@lilik.it>
	<60567dcc0904010245s3277faf0u70565ad5cf44c284@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D3F0BF.5000104@lilik.it> <20090402212447.7528a64d@telenet.be>
	<49D5DA7D.900@lilik.it>
Message-ID: <60567dcc0904030320k7e104c4u2df1a2c230ee2ea3@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 11:44 AM, leonardo maccari <leonardo at lilik.it> wrote:

> Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:
> > On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 00:54:55 +0200
>
>
> > This is a nice keyboard, much easier/faster to use than the predictive
> > one! The look is not all that, but functionality-wise it is great!
>
> Nice to hear this.
> One question, before this layout I was using a layout made of 10 columns
> and 3 rows that let me have an querty keyboard with the same picks as a
> desktop one. But 10 columns is too much to have the keyboard work
> properly so I changed it to 6x5 but now I have a weird layout..
> What is the most qwerty-similar layout for a 6x5 keyboard?
>

hmm ... maybe try 8*3 layout, and set the 2 remaining chars and stuff on a
forth line?

While I'm at it: the keyboard misses the possibility to enter accents in
chars. So maybe add a third special button for symbols (the spacebar can be
made a bit smaller to accomodate for this, where most of these can be
located then.

Franky
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From tonyberth at googlemail.com  Fri Apr  3 12:21:53 2009
From: tonyberth at googlemail.com (Tony Berth)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:21:53 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <1238753868.8766.17.camel@bunyip.localdomain>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<1238753868.8766.17.camel@bunyip.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3494db260904030321n3695c695g6d1775cddafa279d@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:17 PM, W.Kenworthy <billk at iinet.net.au> wrote:

> on the FR "ifdown usb0;ifup usb"
>
> If you are trying to change the default map directory:
>        rm -rf ~/Maps
>        ln -s YourMapDir ~/Maps
>
> BillK
>
>
>
> 0On Fri, 2009-04-03 at 11:58 +0200, Tony Berth wrote:
> > Dear Group,
> >
> > just tried the latest SHR unstable (both kernel and jffs) and found
> > following problems:
> >
> > - when in the boot screen the device gets listed in my debian server
> > as a usb one but after booting it dissapears from the list! So can't
> > access my FR any more from my machine!
> > - tangoGPS still crashes when trying to change the settings :(
> > - when I place a call, I can't hear any sound that its ringing!
> >
> > Any advice for the above issues?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Tony
>

for networking I get following error:

interface usb0 not configured

Thanks

Tony
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From sushama at openmoko.com  Fri Apr  3 12:22:33 2009
From: sushama at openmoko.com (sushama)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 18:22:33 +0800
Subject: 15th Community Update Released
Message-ID: <200904031822.33394.sushama@openmoko.com>

Hi All,

Thank you for the contributions. 
The 15th community update newsletter has been released and can be found here: 
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates/April_05%2C_2009

This update is for the period from March 20th - 03rd April 2009

As always we have more new applications,updates to some of the previous ones 
and more events that are happening.The last major event that happened was the 
Embedded Systems Conference in San Jose where Sean Moss-Pultz presented the 
FreeRunner mobile phone to designers and engineers.

There has also been quiet bit of news with the buzz fix and the talk that Sean 
gave at the Openexpo- the challenges Openmoko faced and the future of it. 
Gta03 being no more,what we can look for in the future and the recent 
developments within Openmoko. 

Thanks and Regards,
Sushama






From anas.lbn at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 12:25:13 2009
From: anas.lbn at gmail.com (Anas Alzouhbi)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:25:13 +0200
Subject: packaging the application
Message-ID: <d4b7a31a0904030325m3e0da047t72214c46aef8ec4d@mail.gmail.com>

I arrived in the toolchain ducument until :Packaging your application
I run this command
om-make-ipkg openmoko-sample2
it showed: usage: om-make-ipkg [app_dir_name] [ipkg_control_file]
but the problem is when I run this command
scp openmoko-sample2_0.1_armv4t.ipk root at 192.168.0.202:
it shows this error:
openmoko-sample2_0.1_armv4t.ipk: No such file or directory
what I have to do??



From iknowjoseph at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 12:28:25 2009
From: iknowjoseph at gmail.com (Joseph Reeves)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:28:25 +0100
Subject: packaging the application
In-Reply-To: <d4b7a31a0904030325m3e0da047t72214c46aef8ec4d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4b7a31a0904030325m3e0da047t72214c46aef8ec4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <958244340904030328q4dbc1fc8t80fffe7d9e819173@mail.gmail.com>

What's the output from:

om-make-ipkg openmoko-sample2

?



2009/4/3 Anas Alzouhbi <anas.lbn at gmail.com>:
> I arrived in the toolchain ducument until :Packaging your application
> I run this command
> om-make-ipkg openmoko-sample2
> it showed: usage: om-make-ipkg [app_dir_name] [ipkg_control_file]
> but the problem is when I run this command
> scp openmoko-sample2_0.1_armv4t.ipk root at 192.168.0.202:
> it shows this error:
> openmoko-sample2_0.1_armv4t.ipk: No such file or directory
> what I have to do??
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



From pander at users.sourceforge.net  Fri Apr  3 12:28:47 2009
From: pander at users.sourceforge.net (Pander)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:28:47 +0200
Subject: Learning with flashcards - granule
In-Reply-To: <1238673219548-2574725.post@n2.nabble.com>
References: <49D251D0.9060004@users.sourceforge.net>	<1238570219084-2567548.post@n2.nabble.com>	<49D316E3.7050301@users.sourceforge.net>
	<1238673219548-2574725.post@n2.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <49D5E4DF.7070501@users.sourceforge.net>

Thanks! It already works with kanji and am collecting/converting
flashcards to the format for this version. the result will be on
opkg.org soon

If more people are interested in a flashcard application for openmoko
and want to contribute in any way (testing, card files, etc.) please let
me know.

I have made some changes/improvements. One question, the answer is
horizontally aligned in the center and when it is larger than the screen
is is left aligned. All well, but can I also have it wrap around when it
is too long and how do I do that?

ezuall wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> I found it, but I haven't been able to test it on my Freerunner, because I'm
> testing android on it at the moment.  You can grab it here in the next 24
> hours (remember that I did warn you about the changes not being pretty):
> 
> http://pastebin.com/d3b742c7f
> 
> The format for the card files are as follows:
> <word/question> : <answer> : <pronunciation/other notes>
> 
> Let me know how it goes.
> ezuall
> 
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Johan Badenhorst <ezuall at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Pander,
>>
>> I'll have to have a dig for the code, it won't be pretty, as I stitched it
>> together for a quick overview of Italian before a trip last year.  I don't
>> know if the Japanese character set is supported.
>>
>> I'll send it through as soon as I find it, may be 24 hours though
>> ezuall
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Pander-2 (via Nabble) <
>> ml-user+35848-1247512972 at n2.nabble.com<ml-user%2B35848-1247512972 at n2.nabble.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi Ezuall,
>>>
>>> Do you still have the code or the changes you applied? Could you send
>>> them to me?
>>>
>>> By the way, which language was it? If it is Japanese, I'm also
>>> interested in the data files.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Pander
>>>
>>> ezuall wrote:
>>>> Hi there,
>>>>
>>>> Last year I used PyFlash, but I'm not sure which distribution I was
>>> running at that time.  I know it was easy to get it running, only a few
>>> chages were necesarry.  I was using it for learning language at the time, so
>>> I added a line for pronunciation as well, which worked better in landscape
>>> mode for learning phrases.
>>>> Cheers
>>>> ezuall
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>> community at ...<http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=2567597&i=0>
>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>  This email is a reply to your post @
>>> http://n2.nabble.com/Learning-with-flashcards---granule-tp2564322p2567597.html
>>> You can reply by email or by visting the link above.
>>>
>>>
> 




From lukpank at o2.pl  Fri Apr  3 12:32:41 2009
From: lukpank at o2.pl (=?utf-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz?= Pankowski)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:32:41 +0200
Subject: I am working on Debian packages for atd-over-fso
In-Reply-To: <20090403025350.GR25857@washoe.rutgers.edu> (Yaroslav Halchenko's
	message of "Thu\, 2 Apr 2009 22\:53\:51 -0400")
References: <49D14770.7070206@seznam.cz>
	<jwv4ox8bf9y.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
	<49D3B189.4020105@seznam.cz>
	<jwvfxgs9bre.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>
	<60567dcc0904020019g7da81721vd64673104d6abfc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<87zleyofn2.fsf_-_@ash.lupan-home>
	<20090403025350.GR25857@washoe.rutgers.edu>
Message-ID: <877i2210za.fsf_-_@ash.lupan-home>

Yaroslav Halchenko <site-openmoko.org at onerussian.com> writes:

> do you mean that whenever that is done you will be ready to package
> Debian packages for ffalarms? ;)

Yes, that is the aim.



From anas.lbn at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 12:33:55 2009
From: anas.lbn at gmail.com (Anas Alzouhbi)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:33:55 +0200
Subject: packaging the application
Message-ID: <d4b7a31a0904030333m544ff476ge2ab454bc8703f73@mail.gmail.com>

the output of
om-make-ipkg openmoko-sample2
is:
 usage: om-make-ipkg [app_dir_name] [ipkg_control_file]



From taw at bitwiz.org.uk  Fri Apr  3 12:36:39 2009
From: taw at bitwiz.org.uk (Thomas White)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:36:39 +0100
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:17:42 -0400
"Iain B. FIndleton" <ifindleton at videotron.ca> wrote:

> A significant issue for me is the performance of the graphics display
> on the FR. I recall some discussions a while back about making use of
> the XGlamo acceleration features. Has any progress been made here? It 
> appears to me that the graphics performance on the FR is poor
> compared to, for instance, the iPhone or iTouch, both of which have
> slower CPUs. When applications running on the FR have their X output
> routed to a machine with accelerated graphics, it is apparent that
> the FR processor can deliver the X events fast enough, but the FR
> graphics chip interface can't keep up.

[I wrote this before the other replies came through, so it re-covers a
bit of ground.]

We do have some acceleration already - both XGlamo (the Kdrive X server)
and xf86-video-glamo (the Glamo driver for Xorg) make use of Glamo's 2D
engine to accelerate tasks such as flood-filling large areas and moving
blocks of data around the screen or onto the screen from offscreen.

However, I do agree that we can do a lot more.  So far, we've
concentrated on trying to implement conventional acceleration protocols
while being limited by what Glamo can't do.  Instead, I think we should
look at what the little chip CAN do, and really make it work, HARD, for
us.  Particularly its 3D engine.  With that, we could do things like
(dare I say it, iPhone-style) flying launcher icons, or alpha-blended
overlays, or other things I can't even imagine right now...

There are many limitations of the chip, but I don't see them as a
reason to give up on this kind of thing.  For example, it's often
mentioned that the 3D engine won't render to a buffer larger than
511x511 pixels.  That would seem to rule out such graphical fanciness
at the native resolution of 480x640, but how about we just cover a
480x511 region of the screen with accelerated graphics and make the
remaining area into some kind of tool or status bar?  Maximum texture
size of 256x256?  Then design the UI so that the accelerated parts of
the UI split into blocks of that size or less.  And so on.

I see more potential in working 3D acceleration than just Quake, and
I'm not in the least bit put off by the knowledge that the chip is a
"one-off"...

Tom



From mok at mnet-online.de  Fri Apr  3 12:39:44 2009
From: mok at mnet-online.de (Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:39:44 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <3494db260904030321n3695c695g6d1775cddafa279d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<1238753868.8766.17.camel@bunyip.localdomain>
	<3494db260904030321n3695c695g6d1775cddafa279d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200904031239.45282.mok@mnet-online.de>

Am Freitag 03 April 2009 12:21:53 schrieb Tony Berth:
> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:17 PM, W.Kenworthy <billk at iinet.net.au> wrote:
> > on the FR "ifdown usb0;ifup usb"
> >
> > If you are trying to change the default map directory:
> >        rm -rf ~/Maps
> >        ln -s YourMapDir ~/Maps
> >
> > BillK
> >
> > 0On Fri, 2009-04-03 at 11:58 +0200, Tony Berth wrote:
> > > Dear Group,
> > >
> > > just tried the latest SHR unstable (both kernel and jffs) and found
> > > following problems:
> > >
> > > - when in the boot screen the device gets listed in my debian server
> > > as a usb one but after booting it dissapears from the list! So can't
> > > access my FR any more from my machine!
> > > - tangoGPS still crashes when trying to change the settings :(
> > > - when I place a call, I can't hear any sound that its ringing!
> > >
> > > Any advice for the above issues?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Tony
>
> for networking I get following error:
>
> interface usb0 not configured

there seems to be some problem with the modules... For me running 'depmod -a' 
and rebooting fixed everything.

>
> Thanks
>
> Tony

Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann




From rms at 1407.org  Fri Apr  3 12:52:40 2009
From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Silva Seabra)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:52:40 +0100
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <a6af4cea0904021110v7fc09a4bl7f318f72aeeacb0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021110v7fc09a4bl7f318f72aeeacb0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090403105240.GA8549@roque.1407.org>

On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 07:10:00PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
> 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>:
> > I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that
> > gets less and less Free as new devices come up :)
> 
> Well due to the expense it is clear that no 3G device is going to be
> Openmoko's main phone for a long time. No one is going to stop anyone
> buying a non-3G Openmoko phone.
> 
> What this is suggesting, I suppose, is a 3G derivative if there was
> serious demand (or should I say, concrete demand in the form of a
> large order. I personally demand it quite seriously!).
> While it is a shame that the 3G part would be closed, it would clearly
> be a legal necessity. It would be that or no 3G version at all.

There won't be. I doubt there would be even if all of us here wanted
such, it wouldn't be enough for it to be considered "serious demand" :)

> > I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had
> > regarding that.
> 
> I guess you mean the Glamo and that kind of thing.
> The GSM firmware cannot become open source, can it?

Yes, glamo is a big pile of crap (too few bandwidtth, no card
documentation for all practical purposes, hence no acceleration nor 3D).

Rasterman's explanation that it could be done just as the GSM chip makes
me more relaxed though, what I was understanding was that you'de need
something more. Fortunately, it looks like it's still prohibitively far
away. A curse on software patents (it's a huge minefield in 3G, thus
making it a lot more expensive).

Rui

-- 
Fnord.
Today is Pungenday, the 20th day of Discord in the YOLD 3175
+ No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown
+ Whatever you do will be insignificant,
| but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi
+ So let's do it...?



From tonyberth at googlemail.com  Fri Apr  3 13:40:15 2009
From: tonyberth at googlemail.com (Tony Berth)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 13:40:15 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <200904031239.45282.mok@mnet-online.de>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<1238753868.8766.17.camel@bunyip.localdomain>
	<3494db260904030321n3695c695g6d1775cddafa279d@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904031239.45282.mok@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <3494db260904030440p57ef066bgc1bde8824358e698@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann <mok at mnet-online.de
> wrote:

> Am Freitag 03 April 2009 12:21:53 schrieb Tony Berth:
> > On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:17 PM, W.Kenworthy <billk at iinet.net.au> wrote:
> > > on the FR "ifdown usb0;ifup usb"
> > >
> > > If you are trying to change the default map directory:
> > >        rm -rf ~/Maps
> > >        ln -s YourMapDir ~/Maps
> > >
> > > BillK
> > >
> > > 0On Fri, 2009-04-03 at 11:58 +0200, Tony Berth wrote:
> > > > Dear Group,
> > > >
> > > > just tried the latest SHR unstable (both kernel and jffs) and found
> > > > following problems:
> > > >
> > > > - when in the boot screen the device gets listed in my debian server
> > > > as a usb one but after booting it dissapears from the list! So can't
> > > > access my FR any more from my machine!
> > > > - tangoGPS still crashes when trying to change the settings :(
> > > > - when I place a call, I can't hear any sound that its ringing!
> > > >
> > > > Any advice for the above issues?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Tony
> >
> > for networking I get following error:
> >
> > interface usb0 not configured
>
> there seems to be some problem with the modules... For me running 'depmod
> -a'
> and rebooting fixed everything.
>
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Tony
>
> Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann
>
>
when I type depmod -a I get the following:

WARNING: Couldn't open directory /lib/modules/2.6.29-rc3: No such file or
directory
FATAL: Could not open /lib/modules/2.6.29-rc3/modules.dep.temp for writing:
No such file or directory

and the problems remain even if I rebbot!

Also I re-installed and the same behavior persists.

Thanks

Tony
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From kimaidou at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 13:40:23 2009
From: kimaidou at gmail.com (kimaidou)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 13:40:23 +0200
Subject: Transparent keyboard in illume
In-Reply-To: <49D5DF4F.2000908@om.ksp.sk>
References: <49B41F29.30802@om.ksp.sk>
	<ffce06340903081339s11233f44scf8396e0cc9f386f@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B42E4C.7050503@om.ksp.sk> <49B58C91.3020404@strapp.co.uk>
	<49B634B7.8020700@om.ksp.sk>
	<1e3adca60903101421i7898b9e1s468c85b82a25682e@mail.gmail.com>
	<1e3adca60903120006q38f294a3hf553b10ab04cbe41@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B8D5AE.3090409@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904020130l6a068189j6b572c0f9ce15fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D5DF4F.2000908@om.ksp.sk>
Message-ID: <40cd9ce40904030440u324612c3ua5936e1687b467cd@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

thanks for you reply. I would need some more help before running the
installation process. I will write a wiki page on openmoko.org when
succeeded.
My questions inside your text :

2009/4/3 Richard Kralovic <riso at om.ksp.sk>

> > I would like to know if there were some progress on easily installing
> > the transparent keyboard (qwo or anyone else) on SHR distribution.
> > I think the SHR distro could really benefit on this !
>
> Well, not much of progress. Some time ago, I set up an ipk feed for
> shr-unstable that I compiled myself, with all the patched stuff:
> http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr-unstable<http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/%7Erkralovi/shr-unstable>
>
> There are also feeds for shr testing
> http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr<http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/%7Erkralovi/shr>


I will use this since I run SHR testing

>
>
> and FSO milestone 5 (which is what I am currently using, so it's
> probably in a best shape):
> http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/fso-ms5<http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/%7Erkralovi/fso-ms5>
>

I think SHR testing uses FSO5, so I have nothing to install, right ?

>
> So, basically it should just work if you add this to your opkg feeds:
>
> src/gz meru-all http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr-unstable/ipk/all
> src/gz <http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/%7Erkralovi/shr-unstable/ipk/all%0Asrc/gz>meru-armv4t
> http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr-unstable/ipk/armv4t
> src/gz<http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/%7Erkralovi/shr-unstable/ipk/armv4t%0Asrc/gz>meru-om-gta02
> http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr-unstable/ipk/om-gta02<http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/%7Erkralovi/shr-unstable/ipk/om-gta02>


Are these lines command lines ? What should I copy / paste to my terminal to
add the correct feeds ?

After this, I will run opkg update

>
>
> Then you can just follow the instructions at
> http://kedrigern.dcs.fmph.uniba.sk/~riso/Openmoko/qwo/index.html<http://kedrigern.dcs.fmph.uniba.sk/%7Eriso/Openmoko/qwo/index.html>
> and install all packages just by opkg install.


Is this correct (or do I need to add some more command lines ?):

#installing xserver-kdrive-glamo & xcompmgr
opkg install
http://kedrigern.dcs.fmph.uniba.sk/~riso/Openmoko/qwo/xserver-kdrive-glamo_1.3.0.0+gitr9b28d998424c77fbc057dd3a022ccbb122793a52-r3_armv4t.ipk
http://kedrigern.dcs.fmph.uniba.sk/~riso/Openmoko/qwo/xcompmgr_1.1.4-r0_armv4t.ipk

#modifiy the file */etc/X11/Xserver
nano **/etc/X11/Xserver
And add *ARGS="$ARGS +extension Composite"

#creating a file to launch xcompmgr and load it
echo "xcompmgr &" > /etc/X11/Xsession.d/xcompmgr_start
chmod +x /etc/X11/Xsession.d/xcompmgr_start
/etc/X11/Xsession.d/xcompmgr_start

#install qwo (+ imlib2 + libconfig) & e-wm
opkg install
http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/download.php/496/imlib2_1.4.1_armv4t.ipk
http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/download.php/497/libconfig_1.3.1_armv4t.ipk
http://kedrigern.dcs.fmph.uniba.sk/~riso/Openmoko/qwo/qwo_0.4-r0_armv4t.ipk
http://kedrigern.dcs.fmph.uniba.sk/~riso/Openmoko/qwo/e-wm_0.16.999.050+svnr38544-r3_armv4t.ipk

This is all I understoof reading your email and the webpage. Can you please
comment / modify it ?

thanks !


>
> But beware, the patch for illume breaks the default keyboard (since it
> does not set the width of it and does not resize the application area).
> So be ready to install the old version of e-wm if you do not like
> transparent qwo. I didn't find time to make a nicer patch on e-wm yet
> (it is on my todolist, but quite deep, so patches are welcome)...
>
> Greets
>        Richard
>
> >
>
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From cvwillegen at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 13:42:18 2009
From: cvwillegen at gmail.com (Christ van Willegen)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 13:42:18 +0200
Subject: GSM buzz-fix party in Braunschweig, Germany
In-Reply-To: <20090401150140.54e8a27e@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
References: <20090315184206.28bd686d@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<200903222108.17133.jl_lists@donalbain.de>
	<20090401150140.54e8a27e@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
Message-ID: <b77f73010904030442j462725e0x88aea4ff75acd116@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Daniel Willmann
<daniel at totalueberwachung.de> wrote:
> I'm considering mail delivery as an option. The only problem I have is
> that I need to get the money for the return package. Don't know how we
> could handle that best...

We could PayPal you the money in advance... or include a ?13 bill. Or
whatever it costs.

I'd be interested in sending my phone to you and getting it back
buzz-fixed. Preferably yesterday, since I kinda need it as a daily
phone these days. I stole^Wborrowed a phone from my workplace (I'll
get it back to them when my FR is fixed) to be reachable!

Please let me know if you'd accept something like this arrangement.

Christ van Willegen
-- 
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0



From iknowjoseph at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 13:47:20 2009
From: iknowjoseph at gmail.com (Joseph Reeves)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:47:20 +0100
Subject: packaging the application
In-Reply-To: <d4b7a31a0904030414s606b43b8ra3bc4f1afa6f3ff7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4b7a31a0904030333m544ff476ge2ab454bc8703f73@mail.gmail.com>
	<958244340904030336h69f8b63fma0b7e4ca4d956aff@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4b7a31a0904030414s606b43b8ra3bc4f1afa6f3ff7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <958244340904030447w52d7d3f0idec5c5686f61d53f@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, so I think I see what you're saying. You get:

you at your-machine:~$om-make-ipkg openmoko-sample2
usage: om-make-ipkg [app_dir_name] [ipkg_control_file]

So om-make-ipkg is complaining that you haven't given it the correct
parameters. It's telling you what it expects. What directory are you
running it from? Does that directory contain openmoko-sample2/ ?

Posting the entire terminal, not just the output of some commands,
would make this much easier to read.

Cheers, Joseph



2009/4/3 Anas Alzouhbi <anas.lbn at gmail.com>:
> thank you
> so what do you think about the problem that I have,
> what could the reason that the output of"om-make-ipkg openmoko-sample2"
> is usage: om-make-ipkg [app_dir_name] [ipkg_control_file]
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Joseph Reeves <iknowjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Last time I did it I got:
>>
>> joseph at joseph-work:~/mtr-0.73$ cd ~
>> joseph at joseph-work:~$ om-make-ipkg mtr-0.73
>> make: Entering directory `/home/joseph/mtr-0.73'
>> Making install in img
>> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/joseph/mtr-0.73/img'
>> make[2]: Entering directory `/home/joseph/mtr-0.73/img'
>> make[2]: Nothing to be done for `install-exec-am'.
>> make[2]: Nothing to be done for `install-data-am'.
>> make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/joseph/mtr-0.73/img'
>> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/joseph/mtr-0.73/img'
>> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/joseph/mtr-0.73'
>> make[2]: Entering directory `/home/joseph/mtr-0.73'
>> test -z "/usr/sbin" || /bin/mkdir -p "/tmp/mtr-0.73-ipkg-tmp/usr/sbin"
>> /usr/bin/install -c 'mtr' '/tmp/mtr-0.73-ipkg-tmp/usr/sbin/mtr'
>> make install-exec-hook
>> make[3]: Entering directory `/home/joseph/mtr-0.73'
>> chmod u+s /tmp/mtr-0.73-ipkg-tmp/usr/sbin/mtr
>> make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/joseph/mtr-0.73'
>> test -z "/usr/share/man/man8" || /bin/mkdir -p
>> "/tmp/mtr-0.73-ipkg-tmp/usr/share/man/man8"
>> /usr/bin/install -c -m 644 './mtr.8'
>> '/tmp/mtr-0.73-ipkg-tmp/usr/share/man/man8/mtr.8'
>> make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/joseph/mtr-0.73'
>> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/joseph/mtr-0.73'
>> make: Leaving directory `/home/joseph/mtr-0.73'
>> Packaged contents of /tmp/mtr-0.73-ipkg-tmp into
>> /home/joseph/mtr-0.73_0.1_armv4t.ipk
>> joseph at joseph-work:~$
>>
>> http://blogs.thehumanjourney.net/finds/entry/3
>>
>



From joakim at verona.se  Fri Apr  3 13:55:53 2009
From: joakim at verona.se (joakim at verona.se)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:55:53 +0200
Subject: Graphics Performance
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113020.f18fa7b3.raster@rasterman.com>
	<84276b9b0904030045w48d64985j24cb40313df9219d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090403081115.GD22906@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
	<m3ocve6sz0.fsf@verona.se>
	<20090403092034.GA24496@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
Message-ID: <m3ljqi54ty.fsf@verona.se>

rixed at happyleptic.org writes:

>> I feel the "ferrari" analogy is broken. it depends on what you would
>> like to do with the device. Moving bling bling is not efficient, Ok.
>> Things that demand high resolution, like ebooks and emacs work fine.
>
> I spend some time in the terminal myself, generally to fix something in a
> config file or to mount manually something on USB or fix the network
> configuration. If the device were working flawlessly and with a good GUI for
> all apps, I wouldn't mind not hurting my eyes on the small chars :-)
>
> For working seriously in a terminal I need a keyboard and a large screen anyway
> (or a magnifying glass maybe ?). I don't know how you manage emacs with the
> various CTRL+ALT+META-x on the virtual keyboard but I sure can not stand it for
> more than a few minutes.

I made some elisp for choosing symbols, and patched in some toolbar
buttons in packages I use. Typing on a virtual keyboard is, admittedly,
no fun though.

> As for reading in general (ebooks or web browser), I admin this is certainly
> better in a bigger resolution. The same goes for viewing maps. But all in all,
> a small gadget with small screen and no keyboard will never replace a desktop
> computer. So personnaly I am looking for other use cases for my FR, and a
> smaller resolution and better responsiveness is the direction I want to go.

--
Joakim Verona




From mok at mnet-online.de  Fri Apr  3 14:04:52 2009
From: mok at mnet-online.de (Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:04:52 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <3494db260904030440p57ef066bgc1bde8824358e698@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904031239.45282.mok@mnet-online.de>
	<3494db260904030440p57ef066bgc1bde8824358e698@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200904031404.52344.mok@mnet-online.de>

Am Freitag 03 April 2009 13:40:15 schrieb Tony Berth:
> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann
> <mok at mnet-online.de
>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Am Freitag 03 April 2009 12:21:53 schrieb Tony Berth:
> > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:17 PM, W.Kenworthy <billk at iinet.net.au> wrote:
> > > > on the FR "ifdown usb0;ifup usb"
> > > >
> > > > If you are trying to change the default map directory:
> > > >        rm -rf ~/Maps
> > > >        ln -s YourMapDir ~/Maps
> > > >
> > > > BillK
> > > >
> > > > 0On Fri, 2009-04-03 at 11:58 +0200, Tony Berth wrote:
> > > > > Dear Group,
> > > > >
> > > > > just tried the latest SHR unstable (both kernel and jffs) and found
> > > > > following problems:
> > > > >
> > > > > - when in the boot screen the device gets listed in my debian
> > > > > server as a usb one but after booting it dissapears from the list!
> > > > > So can't access my FR any more from my machine!
> > > > > - tangoGPS still crashes when trying to change the settings :(
> > > > > - when I place a call, I can't hear any sound that its ringing!
> > > > >
> > > > > Any advice for the above issues?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Tony
> > >
> > > for networking I get following error:
> > >
> > > interface usb0 not configured
> >
> > there seems to be some problem with the modules... For me running 'depmod
> > -a'
> > and rebooting fixed everything.
> >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Tony
> >
> > Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann
>
> when I type depmod -a I get the following:
>
> WARNING: Couldn't open directory /lib/modules/2.6.29-rc3: No such file or
> directory
> FATAL: Could not open /lib/modules/2.6.29-rc3/modules.dep.temp for writing:
> No such file or directory
>
> and the problems remain even if I rebbot!
Hmm, this means the modules are not installed... I have /lib/modules/2.6.29-
rc3... So either the last image borked the kernel modules or you have the 
image from April 1st... 
http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/openmoko-shr-lite-
image-glibc-ipk--20090402-om-gta02-testlab/files-in-image.txt tells me the 
image should be ok:

/home/shr/shr-unstable/tmp/rootfs/lib/modules:
total 12
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root 4096 Apr  1 22:54 .
drwxr-xr-x  5 root root 4096 Apr  2 15:55 ..
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root 4096 Apr  1 22:54 2.6.29-rc3

Maybe you downloaded the fat image (which I did not rebuild yet)... ??

>
> Also I re-installed and the same behavior persists.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony

Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann




From tonyberth at googlemail.com  Fri Apr  3 14:07:59 2009
From: tonyberth at googlemail.com (Tony Berth)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:07:59 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <200904031404.52344.mok@mnet-online.de>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904031239.45282.mok@mnet-online.de>
	<3494db260904030440p57ef066bgc1bde8824358e698@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904031404.52344.mok@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <3494db260904030507n7511ff2fv582481e5ce145dfa@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann
<mok at mnet-online.de>wrote:

> Am Freitag 03 April 2009 13:40:15 schrieb Tony Berth:
> > On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann
> > <mok at mnet-online.de
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Am Freitag 03 April 2009 12:21:53 schrieb Tony Berth:
> > > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:17 PM, W.Kenworthy <billk at iinet.net.au>
> wrote:
> > > > > on the FR "ifdown usb0;ifup usb"
> > > > >
> > > > > If you are trying to change the default map directory:
> > > > >        rm -rf ~/Maps
> > > > >        ln -s YourMapDir ~/Maps
> > > > >
> > > > > BillK
> > > > >
> > > > > 0On Fri, 2009-04-03 at 11:58 +0200, Tony Berth wrote:
> > > > > > Dear Group,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > just tried the latest SHR unstable (both kernel and jffs) and
> found
> > > > > > following problems:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - when in the boot screen the device gets listed in my debian
> > > > > > server as a usb one but after booting it dissapears from the
> list!
> > > > > > So can't access my FR any more from my machine!
> > > > > > - tangoGPS still crashes when trying to change the settings :(
> > > > > > - when I place a call, I can't hear any sound that its ringing!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any advice for the above issues?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tony
> > > >
> > > > for networking I get following error:
> > > >
> > > > interface usb0 not configured
> > >
> > > there seems to be some problem with the modules... For me running
> 'depmod
> > > -a'
> > > and rebooting fixed everything.
> > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Tony
> > >
> > > Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann
> >
> > when I type depmod -a I get the following:
> >
> > WARNING: Couldn't open directory /lib/modules/2.6.29-rc3: No such file or
> > directory
> > FATAL: Could not open /lib/modules/2.6.29-rc3/modules.dep.temp for
> writing:
> > No such file or directory
> >
> > and the problems remain even if I rebbot!
> Hmm, this means the modules are not installed... I have
> /lib/modules/2.6.29-
> rc3... So either the last image borked the kernel modules or you have the
> image from April 1st...
>
> http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/openmoko-shr-lite-
> image-glibc-ipk--20090402-om-gta02-testlab/files-in-image.txt<http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/openmoko-shr-lite-%0Aimage-glibc-ipk--20090402-om-gta02-testlab/files-in-image.txt>tells me the
> image should be ok:
>
> /home/shr/shr-unstable/tmp/rootfs/lib/modules:
> total 12
> drwxr-xr-x  3 root root 4096 Apr  1 22:54 .
> drwxr-xr-x  5 root root 4096 Apr  2 15:55 ..
> drwxr-xr-x  3 root root 4096 Apr  1 22:54 2.6.29-rc3
>
> Maybe you downloaded the fat image (which I did not rebuild yet)... ??
>
> >
> > Also I re-installed and the same behavior persists.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Tony
>
> Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann
>
>
I did download the following:

http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/shr-image-om-gta02.jffs2

which is the latest available and indeed is from the 1st of April! I didn't
find any other image!

Thanks

Tony
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From rixed at happyleptic.org  Fri Apr  3 14:12:55 2009
From: rixed at happyleptic.org (rixed at happyleptic.org)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:12:55 +0200
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20090403121255.GD24496@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>

-[ Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 11:36:39AM +0100, Thomas White ]----
> There are many limitations of the chip,

The main one being of course the lack of documentation.




From ifindleton at videotron.ca  Fri Apr  3 14:18:35 2009
From: ifindleton at videotron.ca (Iain B. FIndleton)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 08:18:35 -0400
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <20090403081115.GD22906@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113020.f18fa7b3.raster@rasterman.com>
	<84276b9b0904030045w48d64985j24cb40313df9219d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090403081115.GD22906@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
Message-ID: <49D5FE9B.6050009@videotron.ca>

In my case, one of the motivations for looking into the FR was the VGA 
graphics capability. Any old phone would do for QVGA level performance. 
As for the ferrari analogy, as far as graphics performance goes, it 
looks like the Apple produces and their competitors make the FR look 
like the poor cousin, which to me means that it does not have far to go 
as a phone of the future. Its just an interesting little gadget for 
hobbyists.

Makes me wonder what the designers were thinking.

For non-graphics intensive applications, however, the FR is quite 
adequate in VGA mode.

rixed at happyleptic.org wrote:
> -[ Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 09:45:37AM +0200, Miguel ?ngel Calder?n ]----
>   
>> What really surprises me is the fact that if this is so clear, why is
>> Comunity not working on qvga graphics yet?
>> (...)
>> I'd prefer to drive the funnier modest car than to have the ferrary parked
>> outside... I though linux and free software people were mostly this way.
>>     
>
> I was feeling exactly the same, and will try qvga asap.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>   





From ifindleton at videotron.ca  Fri Apr  3 14:25:35 2009
From: ifindleton at videotron.ca (Iain B. FIndleton)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 08:25:35 -0400
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
Message-ID: <49D6003F.8030803@videotron.ca>

In my case, the apps I use need space on the screen for buttons, etc 
that control the things being done. My typical layout is to use 460 x 
570 for the actual application display, the rest for decorations and 
controls. Under these conditions, 512 x 512 would be fine, even if I had 
to cut the display by a few lines.

Even the 2D accelerations items would probably make things much better 
as I do my own conversion from 3D to 2D.

Are there any instructions as to how to get the xorg driver running? I 
currently use whatever came with the phone run time images



Thomas White wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:17:42 -0400
> "Iain B. FIndleton" <ifindleton at videotron.ca> wrote:
>
>   
>> A significant issue for me is the performance of the graphics display
>> on the FR. I recall some discussions a while back about making use of
>> the XGlamo acceleration features. Has any progress been made here? It 
>> appears to me that the graphics performance on the FR is poor
>> compared to, for instance, the iPhone or iTouch, both of which have
>> slower CPUs. When applications running on the FR have their X output
>> routed to a machine with accelerated graphics, it is apparent that
>> the FR processor can deliver the X events fast enough, but the FR
>> graphics chip interface can't keep up.
>>     
>
> [I wrote this before the other replies came through, so it re-covers a
> bit of ground.]
>
> We do have some acceleration already - both XGlamo (the Kdrive X server)
> and xf86-video-glamo (the Glamo driver for Xorg) make use of Glamo's 2D
> engine to accelerate tasks such as flood-filling large areas and moving
> blocks of data around the screen or onto the screen from offscreen.
>
> However, I do agree that we can do a lot more.  So far, we've
> concentrated on trying to implement conventional acceleration protocols
> while being limited by what Glamo can't do.  Instead, I think we should
> look at what the little chip CAN do, and really make it work, HARD, for
> us.  Particularly its 3D engine.  With that, we could do things like
> (dare I say it, iPhone-style) flying launcher icons, or alpha-blended
> overlays, or other things I can't even imagine right now...
>
> There are many limitations of the chip, but I don't see them as a
> reason to give up on this kind of thing.  For example, it's often
> mentioned that the 3D engine won't render to a buffer larger than
> 511x511 pixels.  That would seem to rule out such graphical fanciness
> at the native resolution of 480x640, but how about we just cover a
> 480x511 region of the screen with accelerated graphics and make the
> remaining area into some kind of tool or status bar?  Maximum texture
> size of 256x256?  Then design the UI so that the accelerated parts of
> the UI split into blocks of that size or less.  And so on.
>
> I see more potential in working 3D acceleration than just Quake, and
> I'm not in the least bit put off by the knowledge that the chip is a
> "one-off"...
>
> Tom
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>   




From ifindleton at videotron.ca  Fri Apr  3 14:27:58 2009
From: ifindleton at videotron.ca (Iain B. FIndleton)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 08:27:58 -0400
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <m3ljqi54ty.fsf@verona.se>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113020.f18fa7b3.raster@rasterman.com>
	<84276b9b0904030045w48d64985j24cb40313df9219d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090403081115.GD22906@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
	<m3ocve6sz0.fsf@verona.se>
	<20090403092034.GA24496@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
	<m3ljqi54ty.fsf@verona.se>
Message-ID: <49D600CE.4050406@videotron.ca>

I installed whatever editor I use on the phone, then use a forwarded X 
connection to do editing stuff using the desktop or portable. Fat thumb 
typing on a small screen does not make a lot of sense to me, but then, I 
don't text people much either.....

joakim at verona.se wrote:
> rixed at happyleptic.org writes:
>
>   
>>> I feel the "ferrari" analogy is broken. it depends on what you would
>>> like to do with the device. Moving bling bling is not efficient, Ok.
>>> Things that demand high resolution, like ebooks and emacs work fine.
>>>       
>> I spend some time in the terminal myself, generally to fix something in a
>> config file or to mount manually something on USB or fix the network
>> configuration. If the device were working flawlessly and with a good GUI for
>> all apps, I wouldn't mind not hurting my eyes on the small chars :-)
>>
>> For working seriously in a terminal I need a keyboard and a large screen anyway
>> (or a magnifying glass maybe ?). I don't know how you manage emacs with the
>> various CTRL+ALT+META-x on the virtual keyboard but I sure can not stand it for
>> more than a few minutes.
>>     
>
> I made some elisp for choosing symbols, and patched in some toolbar
> buttons in packages I use. Typing on a virtual keyboard is, admittedly,
> no fun though.
>
>   
>> As for reading in general (ebooks or web browser), I admin this is certainly
>> better in a bigger resolution. The same goes for viewing maps. But all in all,
>> a small gadget with small screen and no keyboard will never replace a desktop
>> computer. So personnaly I am looking for other use cases for my FR, and a
>> smaller resolution and better responsiveness is the direction I want to go.
>>     
>
> --
> Joakim Verona
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>   




From jldominguez at prodevelop.es  Fri Apr  3 14:29:48 2009
From: jldominguez at prodevelop.es (Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:29:48 +0200
Subject: Graphics Performance
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca><20090403113020.f18fa7b3.raster@rasterman.com><84276b9b0904030045w48d64985j24cb40313df9219d@mail.gmail.com><20090403081115.GD22906@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
	<49D5FE9B.6050009@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <E43C32BC5843E34FB4C00CDFAAAAF7D80105DA7C@australia.prodevelop.local>

Dear list,
 
I was told that one of the Qt distributions has a significantly better graphic performance. Can anyone confirm this? Which distribution is it exactly?
 
Besides, the Java entry in the distributions table says '??' for Qt. Anyone knows about the Java support in those (hopefully) faster Qt distros?
 
Regards
Juan Lucas
 
 

________________________________



In my case, one of the motivations for looking into the FR was the VGA
graphics capability. Any old phone would do for QVGA level performance.
As for the ferrari analogy, as far as graphics performance goes, it
looks like the Apple produces and their competitors make the FR look
like the poor cousin, which to me means that it does not have far to go
as a phone of the future. Its just an interesting little gadget for
hobbyists.

Makes me wonder what the designers were thinking.

For non-graphics intensive applications, however, the FR is quite
adequate in VGA mode.

rixed at happyleptic.org wrote:
> -[ Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 09:45:37AM +0200, Miguel ?ngel Calder?n ]----
>  
>> What really surprises me is the fact that if this is so clear, why is
>> Comunity not working on qvga graphics yet?
>> (...)
>> I'd prefer to drive the funnier modest car than to have the ferrary parked
>> outside... I though linux and free software people were mostly this way.
>>    
>
> I was feeling exactly the same, and will try qvga asap.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>  



_______________________________________________
Openmoko community mailing list
community at lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


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From mok at mnet-online.de  Fri Apr  3 14:32:20 2009
From: mok at mnet-online.de (Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:32:20 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <3494db260904030507n7511ff2fv582481e5ce145dfa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904031404.52344.mok@mnet-online.de>
	<3494db260904030507n7511ff2fv582481e5ce145dfa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200904031432.20975.mok@mnet-online.de>

Am Freitag 03 April 2009 14:07:59 schrieb Tony Berth:
> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann
>
> <mok at mnet-online.de>wrote:
> > Am Freitag 03 April 2009 13:40:15 schrieb Tony Berth:
> > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann
> > > <mok at mnet-online.de
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Am Freitag 03 April 2009 12:21:53 schrieb Tony Berth:
> > > > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:17 PM, W.Kenworthy <billk at iinet.net.au>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > > > on the FR "ifdown usb0;ifup usb"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you are trying to change the default map directory:
> > > > > >        rm -rf ~/Maps
> > > > > >        ln -s YourMapDir ~/Maps
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BillK
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 0On Fri, 2009-04-03 at 11:58 +0200, Tony Berth wrote:
> > > > > > > Dear Group,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > just tried the latest SHR unstable (both kernel and jffs) and
> >
> > found
> >
> > > > > > > following problems:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - when in the boot screen the device gets listed in my debian
> > > > > > > server as a usb one but after booting it dissapears from the
> >
> > list!
> >
> > > > > > > So can't access my FR any more from my machine!
> > > > > > > - tangoGPS still crashes when trying to change the settings :(
> > > > > > > - when I place a call, I can't hear any sound that its ringing!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any advice for the above issues?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Tony
> > > > >
> > > > > for networking I get following error:
> > > > >
> > > > > interface usb0 not configured
> > > >
> > > > there seems to be some problem with the modules... For me running
> >
> > 'depmod
> >
> > > > -a'
> > > > and rebooting fixed everything.
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Tony
> > > >
> > > > Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann
> > >
> > > when I type depmod -a I get the following:
> > >
> > > WARNING: Couldn't open directory /lib/modules/2.6.29-rc3: No such file
> > > or directory
> > > FATAL: Could not open /lib/modules/2.6.29-rc3/modules.dep.temp for
> >
> > writing:
> > > No such file or directory
> > >
> > > and the problems remain even if I rebbot!
> >
> > Hmm, this means the modules are not installed... I have
> > /lib/modules/2.6.29-
> > rc3... So either the last image borked the kernel modules or you have the
> > image from April 1st...
> >
> > http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/openmoko-shr-li
> >te-
> > image-glibc-ipk--20090402-om-gta02-testlab/files-in-image.txt<http://buil
> >d.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/openmoko-shr-lite-%0Aimage-
> >glibc-ipk--20090402-om-gta02-testlab/files-in-image.txt>tells me the image
> > should be ok:
> >
> > /home/shr/shr-unstable/tmp/rootfs/lib/modules:
> > total 12
> > drwxr-xr-x  3 root root 4096 Apr  1 22:54 .
> > drwxr-xr-x  5 root root 4096 Apr  2 15:55 ..
> > drwxr-xr-x  3 root root 4096 Apr  1 22:54 2.6.29-rc3
> >
> > Maybe you downloaded the fat image (which I did not rebuild yet)... ??
> >
> > > Also I re-installed and the same behavior persists.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Tony
> >
> > Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann
>
> I did download the following:
>
> http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/shr-image-om-gta0
>2.jffs2
>
> which is the latest available and indeed is from the 1st of April! I didn't
> find any other image!
http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/shr-lite-image-om-
gta02.jffs2

which is the lite image... Building the fat image now...

>
> Thanks
>
> Tony

Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann




From dscaini at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 14:36:22 2009
From: dscaini at gmail.com (Davide Scaini)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:36:22 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <200904031239.45282.mok@mnet-online.de>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<1238753868.8766.17.camel@bunyip.localdomain>
	<3494db260904030321n3695c695g6d1775cddafa279d@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904031239.45282.mok@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <18db98c80904030536k31d9d66s58f9f0fec9e14f76@mail.gmail.com>

it's not really on topic [it worked for me with depmod] but sound does
not resume always after suspending with latest kernel...
do you have any idea how to get it work?
thanks
d


On 4/3/09, Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann <mok at mnet-online.de> wrote:
> Am Freitag 03 April 2009 12:21:53 schrieb Tony Berth:
>> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:17 PM, W.Kenworthy <billk at iinet.net.au> wrote:
>> > on the FR "ifdown usb0;ifup usb"
>> >
>> > If you are trying to change the default map directory:
>> >        rm -rf ~/Maps
>> >        ln -s YourMapDir ~/Maps
>> >
>> > BillK
>> >
>> > 0On Fri, 2009-04-03 at 11:58 +0200, Tony Berth wrote:
>> > > Dear Group,
>> > >
>> > > just tried the latest SHR unstable (both kernel and jffs) and found
>> > > following problems:
>> > >
>> > > - when in the boot screen the device gets listed in my debian server
>> > > as a usb one but after booting it dissapears from the list! So can't
>> > > access my FR any more from my machine!
>> > > - tangoGPS still crashes when trying to change the settings :(
>> > > - when I place a call, I can't hear any sound that its ringing!
>> > >
>> > > Any advice for the above issues?
>> > >
>> > > Thanks
>> > >
>> > > Tony
>>
>> for networking I get following error:
>>
>> interface usb0 not configured
>
> there seems to be some problem with the modules... For me running 'depmod
> -a'
> and rebooting fixed everything.
>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tony
>
> Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



From taw at bitwiz.org.uk  Fri Apr  3 14:37:22 2009
From: taw at bitwiz.org.uk (Thomas White)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 13:37:22 +0100
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <20090403121255.GD24496@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<20090403121255.GD24496@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
Message-ID: <20090403133722.4b23eb2d.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:12:55 +0200
rixed at happyleptic.org wrote:

> -[ Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 11:36:39AM +0100, Thomas White ]----
> > There are many limitations of the chip,
> 
> The main one being of course the lack of documentation.

The stack of paper on my desk says otherwise... :)

(Seriously, the necessary documentation has been released, under NDA, to
people who have said they're serious about working on drivers).

Tom



From miguelangel.co at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 14:55:41 2009
From: miguelangel.co at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Miguel_=C3=81ngel_Calder=C3=B3n?=)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:55:41 +0200
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <49D5FE9B.6050009@videotron.ca>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113020.f18fa7b3.raster@rasterman.com>
	<84276b9b0904030045w48d64985j24cb40313df9219d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090403081115.GD22906@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
	<49D5FE9B.6050009@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <84276b9b0904030555o74da0034q859a0aef79889614@mail.gmail.com>

And what about the next idea?

I think the main screen in the neo is a simple app laucher with some widgets
showing
info about the state of system components. I don't consider so necessary the
vga
definition for all that is shown in this screen so use qvga would make it
faster and
more fluent.

In case we use an application that could take advantage to the screen
resolution we
could launch it forcing the X-windows server to change to vga resolution.
After the
application ends we could come back to the previous Xwindows state.

This could be a flexible and better performance solution...

2009/4/3 Iain B. FIndleton <ifindleton at videotron.ca>

> In my case, one of the motivations for looking into the FR was the VGA
> graphics capability. Any old phone would do for QVGA level performance.
> As for the ferrari analogy, as far as graphics performance goes, it
> looks like the Apple produces and their competitors make the FR look
> like the poor cousin, which to me means that it does not have far to go
> as a phone of the future. Its just an interesting little gadget for
> hobbyists.
>
> Makes me wonder what the designers were thinking.
>
> For non-graphics intensive applications, however, the FR is quite
> adequate in VGA mode.
>
> rixed at happyleptic.org wrote:
> > -[ Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 09:45:37AM +0200, Miguel ?ngel Calder?n ]----
> >
> >> What really surprises me is the fact that if this is so clear, why is
> >> Comunity not working on qvga graphics yet?
> >> (...)
> >> I'd prefer to drive the funnier modest car than to have the ferrary
> parked
> >> outside... I though linux and free software people were mostly this way.
> >>
> >
> > I was feeling exactly the same, and will try qvga asap.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community at lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



-- 
Un saludo
--
There is no spoon
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From raster at rasterman.com  Fri Apr  3 15:01:16 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 00:01:16 +1100
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <49D6003F.8030803@videotron.ca>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<49D6003F.8030803@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <20090404000116.fb30ba69.raster@rasterman.com>

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 08:25:35 -0400 "Iain B. FIndleton"
<ifindleton at videotron.ca> said:

beware of jumping all over 3d as the solution. i have recently been working on
a gles2 engine for evas. i have run it on 2 platforms (s3c6410 and omap3530).
both with hardware opengles2 (and capable of high res etc.) and software beats
gles2. yes - evas software rendering is faster. oddly enough the movial guys
and trolltech (qt) guys see the exact same performance problems. gl is slower
(i know that i and the trolls have seen about a 1/4 speed of gl vs software).

reality bites :(

> In my case, the apps I use need space on the screen for buttons, etc 
> that control the things being done. My typical layout is to use 460 x 
> 570 for the actual application display, the rest for decorations and 
> controls. Under these conditions, 512 x 512 would be fine, even if I had 
> to cut the display by a few lines.
> 
> Even the 2D accelerations items would probably make things much better 
> as I do my own conversion from 3D to 2D.
> 
> Are there any instructions as to how to get the xorg driver running? I 
> currently use whatever came with the phone run time images
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas White wrote:
> > On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:17:42 -0400
> > "Iain B. FIndleton" <ifindleton at videotron.ca> wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> A significant issue for me is the performance of the graphics display
> >> on the FR. I recall some discussions a while back about making use of
> >> the XGlamo acceleration features. Has any progress been made here? It 
> >> appears to me that the graphics performance on the FR is poor
> >> compared to, for instance, the iPhone or iTouch, both of which have
> >> slower CPUs. When applications running on the FR have their X output
> >> routed to a machine with accelerated graphics, it is apparent that
> >> the FR processor can deliver the X events fast enough, but the FR
> >> graphics chip interface can't keep up.
> >>     
> >
> > [I wrote this before the other replies came through, so it re-covers a
> > bit of ground.]
> >
> > We do have some acceleration already - both XGlamo (the Kdrive X server)
> > and xf86-video-glamo (the Glamo driver for Xorg) make use of Glamo's 2D
> > engine to accelerate tasks such as flood-filling large areas and moving
> > blocks of data around the screen or onto the screen from offscreen.
> >
> > However, I do agree that we can do a lot more.  So far, we've
> > concentrated on trying to implement conventional acceleration protocols
> > while being limited by what Glamo can't do.  Instead, I think we should
> > look at what the little chip CAN do, and really make it work, HARD, for
> > us.  Particularly its 3D engine.  With that, we could do things like
> > (dare I say it, iPhone-style) flying launcher icons, or alpha-blended
> > overlays, or other things I can't even imagine right now...
> >
> > There are many limitations of the chip, but I don't see them as a
> > reason to give up on this kind of thing.  For example, it's often
> > mentioned that the 3D engine won't render to a buffer larger than
> > 511x511 pixels.  That would seem to rule out such graphical fanciness
> > at the native resolution of 480x640, but how about we just cover a
> > 480x511 region of the screen with accelerated graphics and make the
> > remaining area into some kind of tool or status bar?  Maximum texture
> > size of 256x256?  Then design the UI so that the accelerated parts of
> > the UI split into blocks of that size or less.  And so on.
> >
> > I see more potential in working 3D acceleration than just Quake, and
> > I'm not in the least bit put off by the knowledge that the chip is a
> > "one-off"...
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community at lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >   
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 


-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From nicola.mfb at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 15:03:09 2009
From: nicola.mfb at gmail.com (Nicola Mfb)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 15:03:09 +0200
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <20090403133722.4b23eb2d.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<20090403121255.GD24496@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
	<20090403133722.4b23eb2d.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
Message-ID: <359c5480904030603p214139c5q7a5b4dd317e5d06a@mail.gmail.com>

2009/4/3 Thomas White <taw at bitwiz.org.uk>

> [...]> The main one being of course the lack of documentation.
>
> The stack of paper on my desk says otherwise... :)
>
> (Seriously, the necessary documentation has been released, under NDA, to
> people who have said they're serious about working on drivers).
>

Some time ago we focused about the wasting of cpu cycles to wait for X
operations to complete (as no interrupts are exported to userspace). This
impacts a lot the system as you use accelerated graphics but you have to
hold and wait for it.
Are there working in progress to solve this, it may be in a drm module?

Regards

     Nicola
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From rixed at happyleptic.org  Fri Apr  3 15:14:35 2009
From: rixed at happyleptic.org (rixed at happyleptic.org)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 15:14:35 +0200
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <20090403133722.4b23eb2d.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<20090403121255.GD24496@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
	<20090403133722.4b23eb2d.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20090403131435.GF24496@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>

-[ Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 01:37:22PM +0100, Thomas White ]----
> > The main one being of course the lack of documentation.
> 
> (Seriously, the necessary documentation has been released, under NDA, to
> people who have said they're serious about working on drivers).

Which fits very well with what I call a closed system.
What if I just want to have a look, and, depending on the chip
capabilities and some experiments, decide to go lowlevel or not ?




From rixed at happyleptic.org  Fri Apr  3 15:16:06 2009
From: rixed at happyleptic.org (rixed at happyleptic.org)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 15:16:06 +0200
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <84276b9b0904030555o74da0034q859a0aef79889614@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113020.f18fa7b3.raster@rasterman.com>
	<84276b9b0904030045w48d64985j24cb40313df9219d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090403081115.GD22906@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
	<49D5FE9B.6050009@videotron.ca>
	<84276b9b0904030555o74da0034q859a0aef79889614@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090403131606.GG24496@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>

> In case we use an application that could take advantage to the screen
> resolution we
> could launch it forcing the X-windows server to change to vga resolution.

$ xvidtune -next
Xlib: extension "XFree86-VidModeExtension" missing on display ":0.0"
Unable to query video extension version

:-(




From taw at bitwiz.org.uk  Fri Apr  3 15:25:48 2009
From: taw at bitwiz.org.uk (Thomas White)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:25:48 +0100
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <20090404000116.fb30ba69.raster@rasterman.com>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<49D6003F.8030803@videotron.ca>
	<20090404000116.fb30ba69.raster@rasterman.com>
Message-ID: <20090403142548.ae55d8f8.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>

On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 00:01:16 +1100
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <raster at rasterman.com> wrote:

> beware of jumping all over 3d as the solution. i have recently been
> working on a gles2 engine for evas. i have run it on 2 platforms
> (s3c6410 and omap3530). both with hardware opengles2 (and capable of
> high res etc.) and software beats gles2. yes - evas software
> rendering is faster. oddly enough the movial guys and trolltech (qt)
> guys see the exact same performance problems. gl is slower (i know
> that i and the trolls have seen about a 1/4 speed of gl vs software).

I'm really interested as to why this might be the case.  Do you have
any ideas?  Something like the increased overhead of the extra API and
latency associated with swapping contexts?

Tom



From raster at rasterman.com  Fri Apr  3 15:38:22 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 00:38:22 +1100
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <20090403142548.ae55d8f8.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<49D6003F.8030803@videotron.ca>
	<20090404000116.fb30ba69.raster@rasterman.com>
	<20090403142548.ae55d8f8.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20090404003822.c5fe4477.raster@rasterman.com>

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:25:48 +0100 Thomas White <taw at bitwiz.org.uk> said:

> On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 00:01:16 +1100
> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <raster at rasterman.com> wrote:
> 
> > beware of jumping all over 3d as the solution. i have recently been
> > working on a gles2 engine for evas. i have run it on 2 platforms
> > (s3c6410 and omap3530). both with hardware opengles2 (and capable of
> > high res etc.) and software beats gles2. yes - evas software
> > rendering is faster. oddly enough the movial guys and trolltech (qt)
> > guys see the exact same performance problems. gl is slower (i know
> > that i and the trolls have seen about a 1/4 speed of gl vs software).
> 
> I'm really interested as to why this might be the case.  Do you have
> any ideas?  Something like the increased overhead of the extra API and
> latency associated with swapping contexts?

not 100% sure. at first i thoguht maybe lots of context changes. i cleaned that
up and had them changed as little as possible - only got about 10% more. what
i'd expected. i suspect the gl scissor ops simply dont optimally clip
operations early in the rendering (at the geometry stage) like the do in
software (evas's clips clip really early). but i have yet to prove that.

software is capable of being smarter. gles is stuck in the "Render the whole
window or nothing" phase. anything else doesnt work or is not supported or is a
software path anyway. so you have to re-render the whole backbuffer just to
update 1 button that changed. of course as long as both are rendering the whole
buffer - they are on even ground, but software can take more optimal paths and
only re-render sub-sections. i also know the gles drivers perform excess
memcpy's of data (with the cpu) to get it to the screen - software engine is
able to avoid at least 1 copy there (when in 32bbpp). texture "uploads" are a
big drain on performance - so if you have dynamic data (video or generated
pixels) software beats gl by a wide margin as it can do this "zero copy". gl
requires a texture upload. gles2 also requires everything be a shader - there is
no more fixed pipeline. you have lots of problems here when it comes to quality
of the shader compiler - and even if it is implemented at all. it's a black
box. but as of gles2 you have no choice - you MUST use shaders. also i suspect
there is a bit of nastiness in always having to put all draw ops through the gl
transform matrix - when really all the code is doing is trying to pass pixel
coordinates. another problem is RGBA va ARGB. ARGB is by far and wide the most
common 2d pixel format. but the gles committe in their infinite wisdom decided
to only support RGBA - thus you are forced to either swizzle from ARGB to RGBA
at tex upload time... overhead, or do it at draw time in the shader - possibly
impacting performance a bit.

but these are just my set of things i am sure have some impact. but i really
have not found a good reason for the big difference. gl hardware should SPANK
software's butt. by a country mile. but it doesn't. :(

-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From monnier at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Apr  3 15:39:06 2009
From: monnier at iro.umontreal.ca (Stefan Monnier)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:39:06 -0400
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
	<20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com> <49D5BC95.7040706@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jwv1vs95030.fsf-monnier+gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community@gnu.org>

> Regardless of what you produce as Plan B, even if it's a hair
                                            ^^^^
didn't you mean:                         especially

> straightener, I'll buy one. ;-)


-- Stefan




From ifindleton at videotron.ca  Fri Apr  3 16:03:32 2009
From: ifindleton at videotron.ca (Iain B. FIndleton)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:03:32 -0400
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <20090404003822.c5fe4477.raster@rasterman.com>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<49D6003F.8030803@videotron.ca>
	<20090404000116.fb30ba69.raster@rasterman.com>
	<20090403142548.ae55d8f8.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<20090404003822.c5fe4477.raster@rasterman.com>
Message-ID: <49D61734.6090807@videotron.ca>

It appears to me that the implementation on the FR is not capable of 
moving an updated frame buffer in memory to the chip's video buffer, 
presuming they are different, without draping. Since the controller 
appears to be able to rescan its own video buffer without flicker, I 
wonder what the issue is in moving the frame buffer data? At the speeds 
available on the FR, moving 640 x 480 x 2 = 614,400 bytes from memory to 
a video buffer at 30 Hz needs about 18 MB/sec.

What is the bandwidth for memory moves?


Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:25:48 +0100 Thomas White <taw at bitwiz.org.uk> said:
>
>   
>> On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 00:01:16 +1100
>> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <raster at rasterman.com> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> beware of jumping all over 3d as the solution. i have recently been
>>> working on a gles2 engine for evas. i have run it on 2 platforms
>>> (s3c6410 and omap3530). both with hardware opengles2 (and capable of
>>> high res etc.) and software beats gles2. yes - evas software
>>> rendering is faster. oddly enough the movial guys and trolltech (qt)
>>> guys see the exact same performance problems. gl is slower (i know
>>> that i and the trolls have seen about a 1/4 speed of gl vs software).
>>>       
>> I'm really interested as to why this might be the case.  Do you have
>> any ideas?  Something like the increased overhead of the extra API and
>> latency associated with swapping contexts?
>>     
>
> not 100% sure. at first i thoguht maybe lots of context changes. i cleaned that
> up and had them changed as little as possible - only got about 10% more. what
> i'd expected. i suspect the gl scissor ops simply dont optimally clip
> operations early in the rendering (at the geometry stage) like the do in
> software (evas's clips clip really early). but i have yet to prove that.
>
> software is capable of being smarter. gles is stuck in the "Render the whole
> window or nothing" phase. anything else doesnt work or is not supported or is a
> software path anyway. so you have to re-render the whole backbuffer just to
> update 1 button that changed. of course as long as both are rendering the whole
> buffer - they are on even ground, but software can take more optimal paths and
> only re-render sub-sections. i also know the gles drivers perform excess
> memcpy's of data (with the cpu) to get it to the screen - software engine is
> able to avoid at least 1 copy there (when in 32bbpp). texture "uploads" are a
> big drain on performance - so if you have dynamic data (video or generated
> pixels) software beats gl by a wide margin as it can do this "zero copy". gl
> requires a texture upload. gles2 also requires everything be a shader - there is
> no more fixed pipeline. you have lots of problems here when it comes to quality
> of the shader compiler - and even if it is implemented at all. it's a black
> box. but as of gles2 you have no choice - you MUST use shaders. also i suspect
> there is a bit of nastiness in always having to put all draw ops through the gl
> transform matrix - when really all the code is doing is trying to pass pixel
> coordinates. another problem is RGBA va ARGB. ARGB is by far and wide the most
> common 2d pixel format. but the gles committe in their infinite wisdom decided
> to only support RGBA - thus you are forced to either swizzle from ARGB to RGBA
> at tex upload time... overhead, or do it at draw time in the shader - possibly
> impacting performance a bit.
>
> but these are just my set of things i am sure have some impact. but i really
> have not found a good reason for the big difference. gl hardware should SPANK
> software's butt. by a country mile. but it doesn't. :(
>
>   




From vendion at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 16:32:05 2009
From: vendion at gmail.com (Adam Jimerson)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 10:32:05 -0400
Subject: What is involved in preforming the hardware Buzz fix?
Message-ID: <e10323740904030732l36001959g2ca0998fb802833e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I am getting several complaints about the buzzing from my phone, some people
are even answering my calls from my mobile number.  I live in Tennessee area
in the USA and a bit far to have my phone shipped to Germany for the fix
party, mostly due to the amount of time I will be without a phone and
shipping cost concerns.  If there is not someone in my area that can do
this, yes I will pay any fees that is asked for this service, then can
someone send detailed instructions on what needs to be done to me and I can
look over them with some of my friends and see if one of them thinks they
can do it, I am not very good with soldering irons and I don't want to kill
my phone.  I did look at the photos from one of the other buzz fix threads
and while most are not detailed enough to base a fix on it did look simple
even to me.

Thanks for the time in this matter.

P.S. Is the next hardware release of the phone, if one is planned, have this
fix already applied?
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From bastian.muck at gmx.de  Fri Apr  3 16:47:36 2009
From: bastian.muck at gmx.de (Bastian Muck)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:47:36 +0200
Subject: latest and greatest, progress mail 2
In-Reply-To: <60567dcc0904030227y3800788aq364d4895603d9349@mail.gmail.com>
References: <60567dcc0904030227y3800788aq364d4895603d9349@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D62188.1040502@gmx.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
 
I guess that you are talking about QT Extended, don't you?
If yes this is (partly) good message. the double sms and call bug is a
little bit annoying.

Franky Van Liedekerke schrieb:
> Ok, I know that probably nobody is interested, but I'm mailing it
> anyway :-)
> New progress/bugs:
>
> All Ok:
> - alarms (using atd from angstrom, since no newer package exists),
>   normal + when suspended
> - wake up when receiving sms
> - call + echo check
> - missed call bug
> - duplicate sms thing
> - voice notes (see my mail/patch)
> - mail ok
> - wifi ok
>
> Problems:
> - usb cable handling for power charging
>   ==> it seems andy-tracking kernel has an issue with power
> detection on the usb port, so I'm going to try the "stable" kernel
> from http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/unstable/NeoFreerunner/
> - bluetooth
>   ==> "bluetooth not available" error
> - sms stay on SIM as well as on phone
>   ==> All sms's are stored on the phone *and* on the SIM. I don't
> think that this is wanted behaviour (deleting an SMS only works on
> the SMS's stored on the phone)
> - I had a crash this morning, might be kernel related as well
>
> Franky
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

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From taw at bitwiz.org.uk  Fri Apr  3 17:04:32 2009
From: taw at bitwiz.org.uk (Thomas White)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 16:04:32 +0100
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <359c5480904030603p214139c5q7a5b4dd317e5d06a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<20090403121255.GD24496@fp-desktop.fr.evistel.com>
	<20090403133722.4b23eb2d.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<359c5480904030603p214139c5q7a5b4dd317e5d06a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090403160432.71f7883a.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 15:03:09 +0200
Nicola Mfb <nicola.mfb at gmail.com> wrote:

> Some time ago we focused about the wasting of cpu cycles to wait for X
> operations to complete (as no interrupts are exported to userspace).
> This impacts a lot the system as you use accelerated graphics but you
> have to hold and wait for it.
> Are there working in progress to solve this, it may be in a drm
> module?

Well, we (I and a few others) have been working on DRI, which at its
core has a DRM module which mediates access to the graphics hardware,
but there's no reason why that should help with this particular
problem in itself.  But this is all (still) at a very early stage.

Tom



From timo.scheffler at uni-oldenburg.de  Fri Apr  3 17:17:49 2009
From: timo.scheffler at uni-oldenburg.de (Timo Scheffler)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 17:17:49 +0200
Subject: [FSO] Trigger querty-keyboard from inside application
Message-ID: <49D6289D.5060606@uni-oldenburg.de>

Hi!

I'm just starting to script something useful using fso, python and edje.
I have some questions about the keyboard which I couldn't find the
answer to...

1. Is there a way to trigger the keyboard using the framework or some
other command I can let the python script work with?
When a text-field gets focus, the keyboard should automaticaly appear
(and since it's not like that now, my app could take care of that).

2. Where can I adjust the keyboard to have the "Terminal"-Layout as
default after booting?

Timo



From omega.xavier at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 18:27:03 2009
From: omega.xavier at gmail.com (Xavier Cremaschi)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:27:03 +0200
Subject: What is involved in preforming the hardware Buzz fix?
In-Reply-To: <e10323740904030732l36001959g2ca0998fb802833e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e10323740904030732l36001959g2ca0998fb802833e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <gr5dcn$g2p$1@ger.gmane.org>

Adam Jimerson a ?crit :
  > P.S. Is the next hardware release of the phone, if one is planned, have
> this fix already applied?

Future revision (GTA02v7) should have the fix applied. It was supposed 
to be released in February, but we still are waiting for it...

Xavier.




From yogizz at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 18:44:46 2009
From: yogizz at gmail.com (Yogiz)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 19:44:46 +0300
Subject: ffalarms 0.2.1 and atd-over-fso (now works on SHR-testing)
In-Reply-To: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
Message-ID: <20090403194446.49354fa3@blunt.home>

Hi and thanks for your app. A working alarm clock is a high priority on
the Freerunner and yours might work fine.

Firstly, the ipk on the project page installed the python module
into /usr/lib/python2.5 instead of 2.6. For that reason it failed the
first time I ran it but after copying the ffalarms folder to
2.6/site-packages/ it starts fine.

Secondly, it doesn't wake up the phone out of suspend on my SHR. When
returning from suspend manually afterwards it displays the turning off
alarm page and plays the sound (although very quitely).

If I can get it to wake up the phone then the app will be good enough
for me.



From cedric.berger74 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 19:00:01 2009
From: cedric.berger74 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E9dric_Berger?=)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 19:00:01 +0200
Subject: Bying a Freerunner with the "buzz"-fix on it
In-Reply-To: <49ADC6C7.9030701@openmoko.com>
References: <49AC7C33.50000@gmx.at> <goitfh$h5u$1@ger.gmane.org> 
	<49ADC6C7.9030701@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <bff0f0570904031000r788cdf70qa4e222c80ac8ddfe@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 02:09, Steve Mosher <steve at openmoko.com> wrote:
> so much for my schedules.
>
> ?There were some issues with ALSA states. so manufacturing got put on
> hold. then Chinese new year. I'll have an update shortly on A7.
>
>

So as I understand these were issues not only relating to software ?
Because if it was just a matter of alsa states files not ready yet,
production would not have to be put on hold (hey if openmoko would
wait for software be ready to start production, no freerunner would be
existing yet ;-) )

And if it is the buzz fix (by adding the cap) that causes potential
problems... what about the SOP currently applied to freerunners ? They
may be impacted by incorrect ALSA states ?




oh... and still no update about A7 production ? Since I probably have
my phone to be replaced (broken button), I am waiting for Bearstech to
get new phones.... (they are out of stock, and anyway since I have to
send my phone I want either a A7 or at least the buzz fix applied...
not having to send it again later to get it fixed...)



From hns at computer.org  Fri Apr  3 19:37:02 2009
From: hns at computer.org (Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 19:37:02 +0200
Subject: Planning for the 1st Openmoko Munich workshop has started
Message-ID: <0976EBCD-1879-4E00-BD92-ECAD1363B0D8@computer.org>

Here is the discussion thread in German:

	http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1112

Topics will be about and around Openmoko. I.e. information,  
presentations, hands-on hacking, community building, futher  
developments, etc.

Please register your location here:

	http://fly-society.de/web/openmoko/

so that we know where to organize the next workshops.

And if you want to attend the meeting in Munich, please choose your  
preferences here:

	http://doodle.com/2pa84t7dfyqqrhiu

Nikolaus



From onen.om at free.fr  Fri Apr  3 19:39:01 2009
From: onen.om at free.fr (Onen)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 19:39:01 +0200
Subject: [openBmap] Version 0.2.0 released of the GSM cell, GPS logger
In-Reply-To: <40cd9ce40904021125r500e673fg57083d3632efa5b5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49D1325A.6060804@free.fr>	<40cd9ce40904020045j45c07b59te69b044933373cbc@mail.gmail.com>	<49D4E345.9060907@free.fr>
	<40cd9ce40904021125r500e673fg57083d3632efa5b5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D649B5.1020406@free.fr>

Hello,

ok, thanks for the explanations.

Here you go:
http://www.opkg.org/package_186.html

Let me know if you see errors, possible improvements, etc...

Onen

kimaidou wrote:
> Hi
> About the advantages of opkg.org <http://opkg.org>
> * a software dedicated website, so that I can easily know the new and 
> updated softs with rss feeds (I don't have to filter the new entries in 
> the openmoko wiki and get lost among the amount of information)
> * a small description for each software (you can do this on a wiki page, 
> I know), and each soft has the same description page template
> * at the moment, there is a small number of distro (SHR and OM are the 
> most used), but this does not say that it will stay forever, so it could 
> be hard to ask the developper of each new platform to integrate it on 
> the repos
> * a lot of visitors
> * you do not have to store the ipk on opkg. A link or description to 
> your repo is OK . So you can do both : put a description on opkg, and 
> put the package in the distro feeds
> 
>   I believe a portal containing a updated list of all softwares is great 
> for the users who are not always connected to the mailing lists and 
> wikis. For example, I saw the Hackable:A developpers have released a 
> great rss reader application ( 
> https://trac.hackable1.org/trac/wiki/FeedReader ) . It could be used by 
> users using another debian based distribution (fyp or other), but there 
> is no way for them to know. If this app was in opkg, everyone would know 
> (I know, this is not a good examplen, as opkg is only for ipk package 
> and not deb, but you understand the meaning :D )
> 
> Cheers
> Kimaidou




From bumbl3x3 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 19:39:19 2009
From: bumbl3x3 at gmail.com (Thomas Bumberger)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 19:39:19 +0200
Subject: The future of the Neo Freerunner
Message-ID: <5a4c54db0904031039l204d59d6i9a5f93812c4cce39@mail.gmail.com>

As Openmoko sacked/was left by 50% of its developers and halted the
development of GTA03
i want to know your opinion on the future of the Neo.
As it seems Openmoko stopped funding FSO too.

Are there any official statements beside the announcement yesterday at
OpenExpo.
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From tanuva at googlemail.com  Fri Apr  3 20:18:00 2009
From: tanuva at googlemail.com (Marcel)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 20:18:00 +0200
Subject: The future of the Neo Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <5a4c54db0904031039l204d59d6i9a5f93812c4cce39@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5a4c54db0904031039l204d59d6i9a5f93812c4cce39@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200904032018.00349.tanuva@gmail.com>

Am Friday 03 April 2009 19:39:19 schrieb Thomas Bumberger:
> As Openmoko sacked/was left by 50% of its developers and halted the
> development of GTA03
> i want to know your opinion on the future of the Neo.
> As it seems Openmoko stopped funding FSO too.
>
> Are there any official statements beside the announcement yesterday at
> OpenExpo.

1. They iced 03 in favor of another project which is yet to be announced, so 
work is still going on.
2. These devs don't belong to Openmoko Inc. anymore, but they still contribute 
heavily to one or another aspect of the OM world. Afaik.

--
Marcel



From _ at whats-your.name  Fri Apr  3 20:33:10 2009
From: _ at whats-your.name (carmen)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:33:10 -0400
Subject: The future of the Neo Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <5a4c54db0904031039l204d59d6i9a5f93812c4cce39@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5a4c54db0904031039l204d59d6i9a5f93812c4cce39@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090403183310.GA4004@x.myhome.westell.com>

On Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 07:39:19PM +0200, Thomas Bumberger wrote:
> As Openmoko sacked/was left by 50% of its developers and halted the
> development of GTA03
> i want to know your opinion on the future of the Neo.
> As it seems Openmoko stopped funding FSO too.

hello, are there any 3G phones which run debian and spport all the hardware yet? 

> 
> Are there any official statements beside the announcement yesterday at
> OpenExpo.

> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community




From meng.qingyou at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 20:41:00 2009
From: meng.qingyou at gmail.com (mqy)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:41:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: test result of battery current against display brightness and
	GPS power mode
In-Reply-To: <49D0BE12.4010204@om.ksp.sk>
References: <4c9b51c20903261421n267abdefxe35c25a0a8dff51e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090328130834.GX27350@sygehus.dk>
	<1238262972319-2549904.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<49CE6D38.1060305@om.ksp.sk> <20090328205501.GA27350@sygehus.dk>
	<49D0BE12.4010204@om.ksp.sk>
Message-ID: <1238784060500-2582277.post@n2.nabble.com>


On SHR with latest kernel of version 2.6.29-rc3, current is about 62.5 mA, 100% capacity.

Here is link to the kernel:
http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/uImage-2.6.28-oe1+gitr119778+9c4451ff31b937a478f3d3eabef30b71cbe12b12-r3.1-om-gta02.bin

The name mismatches with actual kernel version, it shows 2.6.29-rc3 on boot.


Rask Ingemann Lambertsen wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 07:32:24PM +0100, Richard Kralovic wrote:
>> It may be the case that the fixes for the current leak were introduced
>> in devel branch (linux-openmoko-devel). On kernel 2.6.29-rc3, my tests
>> show a drop from cca 80mA to cca 47mA.
> 
>    Do you know which git revision that kernel is? Alternatively, where did

I am using gitr1e257a0e99817a338e3706708ebb5036518e46d8, I compiled it
myself.
	Richard

> you get that kernel from?
> 



_______________________________________________
Openmoko community mailing list
community at lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



-- 
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/test-result-of-battery-current-against-display-brightness-and-GPS--power-mode-tp2541178p2582277.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




From lukpank at o2.pl  Fri Apr  3 21:37:53 2009
From: lukpank at o2.pl (=?utf-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz?= Pankowski)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 21:37:53 +0200
Subject: ffalarms 0.2.1 and atd-over-fso (now works on SHR-testing)
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<20090403194446.49354fa3@blunt.home>
Message-ID: <87d4btcyum.fsf@ash.lupan-home>

Yogiz <yogizz at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi and thanks for your app. A working alarm clock is a high priority on
> the Freerunner and yours might work fine.
>
> Firstly, the ipk on the project page installed the python module
> into /usr/lib/python2.5 instead of 2.6. For that reason it failed the
> first time I ran it but after copying the ffalarms folder to
> 2.6/site-packages/ it starts fine.

Hi

The package for SHR is named ffalarms_0.2.1-r0_all_py2.6.ipk
(http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=260) and it properly
installes to Python 2.6 directory, ffalarms_0.2.1-r0_all.ipk is
intended for 2008.12, i.e. Python 2.5.

>
> Secondly, it doesn't wake up the phone out of suspend on my SHR. When
> returning from suspend manually afterwards it displays the turning off
> alarm page and plays the sound (although very quitely).

The sound starts quiet, but the volume is increasing each second up to
maximum.

If you have ffalarms < 0.2.1 it may be Daylight Saving Time problem,
if:

# grep RealTimeClock `opkg files frameworkd |grep alarm.py`

gives a line

    self.rtc = dbus.Interface( o, "org.freesmartphone.RealTimeClock" ) 

instead of 

    self.rtc = dbus.Interface( o, "org.freesmartphone.Device.RealTimeClock" ) 

then you have old (> 4 weeks) frameworkd with a bug preventing from
using RTC.  Then upgrade, or add ".Device." to that file, or try plain
atd [1] (but this will fight with fso for RTC when you get fixed
frameworkd version, which is a bad thing).

If this does not help, tell me.

[1] http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Om2008.8/armv4t/atd_0.70-r4_armv4t.opk


>
> If I can get it to wake up the phone then the app will be good enough
> for me.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



From OpenMoko at mauve.plus.com  Fri Apr  3 22:14:16 2009
From: OpenMoko at mauve.plus.com (Ian Stirling)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 21:14:16 +0100
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <49D61734.6090807@videotron.ca>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>	<20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>	<49D6003F.8030803@videotron.ca>	<20090404000116.fb30ba69.raster@rasterman.com>	<20090403142548.ae55d8f8.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>	<20090404003822.c5fe4477.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D61734.6090807@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <49D66E18.4010005@mauve.plus.com>

Iain B. FIndleton wrote:
> It appears to me that the implementation on the FR is not capable of 
> moving an updated frame buffer in memory to the chip's video buffer, 
> presuming they are different, without draping. Since the controller 
> appears to be able to rescan its own video buffer without flicker, I 
> wonder what the issue is in moving the frame buffer data? At the speeds 
> available on the FR, moving 640 x 480 x 2 = 614,400 bytes from memory to 
> a video buffer at 30 Hz needs about 18 MB/sec.
> 
> What is the bandwidth for memory moves?

About 6-8 or so - with 100% CPU utilisation



From tanuva at googlemail.com  Fri Apr  3 22:21:07 2009
From: tanuva at googlemail.com (Marcel)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 22:21:07 +0200
Subject: ffalarms 0.2.1 and atd-over-fso (now works on SHR-testing)
In-Reply-To: <20090403194446.49354fa3@blunt.home>
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<20090403194446.49354fa3@blunt.home>
Message-ID: <200904032221.08107.tanuva@gmail.com>

Am Friday 03 April 2009 18:44:46 schrieb Yogiz:
> Secondly, it doesn't wake up the phone out of suspend on my SHR. When
> returning from suspend manually afterwards it displays the turning off
> alarm page and plays the sound (although very quitely).
>
> If I can get it to wake up the phone then the app will be good enough
> for me.

Is there any trick to achieve this? I noticed that, too...

--
Marcel



From frobiac at googlemail.com  Fri Apr  3 22:26:14 2009
From: frobiac at googlemail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Fr=F6be?=)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 22:26:14 +0200
Subject: ffalarms 0.2.1 and atd-over-fso (now works on SHR-testing)
In-Reply-To: <200904032221.08107.tanuva@gmail.com>
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<20090403194446.49354fa3@blunt.home> 
	<200904032221.08107.tanuva@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58a51a770904031326o3d002550m61c656d032a11f65@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Marcel <tanuva at googlemail.com> wrote:

> Am Friday 03 April 2009 18:44:46 schrieb Yogiz:
> > Secondly, it doesn't wake up the phone out of suspend on my SHR. When
> > returning from suspend manually afterwards it displays the turning off
> > alarm page and plays the sound (although very quitely).
> >
> > If I can get it to wake up the phone then the app will be good enough
> > for me.
>
> Is there any trick to achieve this? I noticed that, too...
>

Don't know the difference to SHR, but it does work fine on FS0-experimental
- great! One more necessary app finally running, thanks!

Stefan
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From mok at mnet-online.de  Fri Apr  3 22:37:59 2009
From: mok at mnet-online.de (Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 22:37:59 +0200
Subject: ffalarms 0.2.1 and atd-over-fso (now works on SHR-testing)
In-Reply-To: <87d4btcyum.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<20090403194446.49354fa3@blunt.home>
	<87d4btcyum.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
Message-ID: <200904032237.59879.mok@mnet-online.de>

Am Freitag 03 April 2009 21:37:53 schrieb ?ukasz Pankowski:
> Yogiz <yogizz at gmail.com> writes:
> > Hi and thanks for your app. A working alarm clock is a high priority on
> > the Freerunner and yours might work fine.
> >
> > Firstly, the ipk on the project page installed the python module
> > into /usr/lib/python2.5 instead of 2.6. For that reason it failed the
> > first time I ran it but after copying the ffalarms folder to
> > 2.6/site-packages/ it starts fine.
>
> Hi
>
> The package for SHR is named ffalarms_0.2.1-r0_all_py2.6.ipk
> (http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=260) and it properly
> installes to Python 2.6 directory, ffalarms_0.2.1-r0_all.ipk is
> intended for 2008.12, i.e. Python 2.5.
thanks for this nice app... I added ffalarms and atd-over-fso to the shr-
unstable feed :-)

>
> > Secondly, it doesn't wake up the phone out of suspend on my SHR. When
> > returning from suspend manually afterwards it displays the turning off
> > alarm page and plays the sound (although very quitely).
hmm... in shr-unstable it wakes up just fine... And I like that increasing 
volume feature very much :D

>
> The sound starts quiet, but the volume is increasing each second up to
> maximum.
>
> If you have ffalarms < 0.2.1 it may be Daylight Saving Time problem,
> if:
>
> # grep RealTimeClock `opkg files frameworkd |grep alarm.py`
>
> gives a line
>
>     self.rtc = dbus.Interface( o, "org.freesmartphone.RealTimeClock" )
>
> instead of
>
>     self.rtc = dbus.Interface( o, "org.freesmartphone.Device.RealTimeClock"
> )
>
> then you have old (> 4 weeks) frameworkd with a bug preventing from
> using RTC.  Then upgrade, or add ".Device." to that file, or try plain
> atd [1] (but this will fight with fso for RTC when you get fixed
> frameworkd version, which is a bad thing).
>
> If this does not help, tell me.
>
> [1]
> http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Om2008.8/armv4t/atd_0.70-r4_armv4t
>.opk
>
> > If I can get it to wake up the phone then the app will be good enough
> > for me.
> >

Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann




From tanuva at googlemail.com  Fri Apr  3 22:56:30 2009
From: tanuva at googlemail.com (Marcel)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 22:56:30 +0200
Subject: ffalarms 0.2.1 and atd-over-fso (now works on SHR-testing)
In-Reply-To: <58a51a770904031326o3d002550m61c656d032a11f65@mail.gmail.com>
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<200904032221.08107.tanuva@gmail.com>
	<58a51a770904031326o3d002550m61c656d032a11f65@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200904032256.30428.tanuva@gmail.com>

Am Friday 03 April 2009 22:26:14 schrieb Stefan Fr?be:
> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Marcel <tanuva at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Am Friday 03 April 2009 18:44:46 schrieb Yogiz:
> > > Secondly, it doesn't wake up the phone out of suspend on my SHR. When
> > > returning from suspend manually afterwards it displays the turning off
> > > alarm page and plays the sound (although very quitely).
> > >
> > > If I can get it to wake up the phone then the app will be good enough
> > > for me.
> >
> > Is there any trick to achieve this? I noticed that, too...
>
> Don't know the difference to SHR, but it does work fine on FS0-experimental
> - great! One more necessary app finally running, thanks!

Here on debian it doesn't - the alarm gets triggered once I resume but not in 
suspended state. While the Neo's awake everything works fine. (If the system 
clock is set correctly *slapping himself*)
And I just noticed a typo on the main screen: The caption for the alarms list 
reads "Sheduled alarms" instead of "Scheduled".

--
Marcel



From lukpank at o2.pl  Fri Apr  3 23:15:44 2009
From: lukpank at o2.pl (=?utf-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz?= Pankowski)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 23:15:44 +0200
Subject: ffalarms 0.2.1 and atd-over-fso (now works on SHR-testing)
In-Reply-To: <200904032237.59879.mok@mnet-online.de> (Klaus Kurzmann's message
	of "Fri\, 3 Apr 2009 22\:37\:59 +0200")
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<20090403194446.49354fa3@blunt.home> <87d4btcyum.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<200904032237.59879.mok@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <878wmhbfr3.fsf@ash.lupan-home>

"Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann" <mok at mnet-online.de> writes:

> thanks for this nice app... I added ffalarms and atd-over-fso to the shr-
> unstable feed :-)

Nice to hear that.



From lukpank at o2.pl  Fri Apr  3 23:19:13 2009
From: lukpank at o2.pl (=?utf-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz?= Pankowski)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 23:19:13 +0200
Subject: ffalarms 0.2.1 and atd-over-fso (now works on SHR-testing)
In-Reply-To: <200904032221.08107.tanuva@gmail.com> (Marcel's message of "Fri\,
	3 Apr 2009 22\:21\:07 +0200")
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<20090403194446.49354fa3@blunt.home>
	<200904032221.08107.tanuva@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87wsa1a10u.fsf@ash.lupan-home>

Marcel <tanuva at googlemail.com> writes:

> Am Friday 03 April 2009 18:44:46 schrieb Yogiz:
>> Secondly, it doesn't wake up the phone out of suspend on my SHR. When
>> returning from suspend manually afterwards it displays the turning off
>> alarm page and plays the sound (although very quitely).
>>
>> If I can get it to wake up the phone then the app will be good enough
>> for me.
>
> Is there any trick to achieve this? I noticed that, too...

Be sure to have ffalarms 0.2.1 and read my previous post on missing
".Device." in alarm.py in older frameworkd, may be this is the case
(don't know how recent is your SHR).

>
> --
> Marcel



From lukpank at o2.pl  Fri Apr  3 23:58:58 2009
From: lukpank at o2.pl (=?utf-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz?= Pankowski)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 23:58:58 +0200
Subject: ffalarms 0.2.1 and atd-over-fso (now works on SHR-testing)
In-Reply-To: <200904032256.30428.tanuva@gmail.com> (Marcel's message of "Fri\,
	3 Apr 2009 22\:56\:30 +0200")
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<200904032221.08107.tanuva@gmail.com>
	<58a51a770904031326o3d002550m61c656d032a11f65@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904032256.30428.tanuva@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87zlex8km5.fsf@ash.lupan-home>

Marcel <tanuva at googlemail.com> writes:

> Here on debian it doesn't - the alarm gets triggered once I resume but not in 
> suspended state. While the Neo's awake everything works fine. (If the system 
> clock is set correctly *slapping himself*)

Sorry, I forgotten you are on Debian.  Try install python-rtc,
(fso-frameworkd should depend on it, but AFAIK it is not as python-rtc
was not packaged some time ago for Debian).  I suppose suspend should
work after restarting fso-frameworkd (I have not tested it yet
myself).

> And I just noticed a typo on the main screen: The caption for the alarms list 
> reads "Sheduled alarms" instead of "Scheduled".

Thanks :).

>
> --
> Marcel
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



From tanuva at googlemail.com  Sat Apr  4 00:37:13 2009
From: tanuva at googlemail.com (Marcel)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 00:37:13 +0200
Subject: ffalarms 0.2.1 and atd-over-fso (now works on SHR-testing)
In-Reply-To: <87zlex8km5.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<200904032256.30428.tanuva@gmail.com>
	<87zlex8km5.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
Message-ID: <200904040037.13250.tanuva@gmail.com>

Am Friday 03 April 2009 23:58:58 schrieb ?ukasz Pankowski:
> Marcel <tanuva at googlemail.com> writes:
> > Here on debian it doesn't - the alarm gets triggered once I resume but
> > not in suspended state. While the Neo's awake everything works fine. (If
> > the system clock is set correctly *slapping himself*)
>
> Sorry, I forgotten you are on Debian.  Try install python-rtc,
> (fso-frameworkd should depend on it, but AFAIK it is not as python-rtc
> was not packaged some time ago for Debian).  I suppose suspend should
> work after restarting fso-frameworkd (I have not tested it yet
> myself).

python-rtc fixes the problem, thank you. :)
Maybe adding this to ffalarms' dependencies would be useful.

--
Marcel



From MartinBern at web.de  Sat Apr  4 00:46:15 2009
From: MartinBern at web.de (Martin Bernreuther)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 00:46:15 +0200
Subject: [QtExtendedImproved] Which kernel?
Message-ID: <200904040046.15565.MartinBern@web.de>

Hello,

it's nice, that
	http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qt_Extended_Improved
now contains a link to a prebuild actual Qt Extended Improved.
(http://dashi-x02.karadog.net/~lihouyu/qtextended/snapbuild/)
Thanks for the effort to HouYu Li(?)!

But what is the prefered kernel?
(no readme found at http://dashi-x02.karadog.net/~lihouyu/qtextended/snapbuild/qt-extended-improved-20090403/)
Maybe...
http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/unstable/daily/om-gta02/20090403/uImage-2.6.28-andy-tracking+gitr6+9c4451ff31b937a478f3d3eabef30b71cbe12b12-r3-om-gta02.bin
or the last stable one? Or still a 2.6.24 one?...

Which version of u-boot/qi is used?

Thanks,
	Martin

P.S.: I think there was something about this on the list, but I can't remember where...
P.P.S.: I'll add this info to the wiki, if no one else wants to do it...
-- 
_________________________________________
Martin Bernreuther	MartinBern at web.de



From joerg at openmoko.org  Sat Apr  4 01:08:15 2009
From: joerg at openmoko.org (Joerg Reisenweber)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 00:08:15 +0100
Subject: What is involved in preforming the hardware Buzz fix?
In-Reply-To: <e10323740904030732l36001959g2ca0998fb802833e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e10323740904030732l36001959g2ca0998fb802833e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200904040108.31950.joerg@openmoko.org>

Am Fr  3. April 2009 schrieb Adam Jimerson:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am getting several complaints about the buzzing from my phone, some people
> are even answering my calls from my mobile number.  I live in Tennessee area
> in the USA and a bit far to have my phone shipped to Germany for the fix
> party, mostly due to the amount of time I will be without a phone and
> shipping cost concerns.  If there is not someone in my area that can do
> this, yes I will pay any fees that is asked for this service, then can
> someone send detailed instructions on what needs to be done to me and I can
> look over them with some of my friends and see if one of them thinks they
> can do it, I am not very good with soldering irons and I don't want to kill
> my phone.  I did look at the photos from one of the other buzz fix threads
> and while most are not detailed enough to base a fix on it did look simple
> even to me.

Please don't underestimate the amount of experience and skills it needs to do 
SMD-soldering!
Anyway http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/GSM_EMI_noise/ is the place to go and 
have a look at files named bigC*
Probably if you take a printout of big-C_rework_SOP_rc2.pdf to next cellphone 
repair shop, and bring your (preferably already disassembled and prepared 
[protect screen, remove mic-rubber]) FR, they can do the job in 30min. Maybe 
you need to find the components prior to that. In US I think Steve could send 
them to you.
 
> 
> Thanks for the time in this matter.
> 
> P.S. Is the next hardware release of the phone, if one is planned, have this
> fix already applied?
> 

A7 revision is bigC-buzzfixed by default, A6 is shipping now with buzzfix 
rework afaik.

cheers
jOERG
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From joerg at openmoko.org  Sat Apr  4 01:23:19 2009
From: joerg at openmoko.org (Joerg Reisenweber)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 00:23:19 +0100
Subject: ffalarms 0.2.1 and atd-over-fso (now works on SHR-testing)
In-Reply-To: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
Message-ID: <200904040123.19827.joerg@openmoko.org>

Am Sa  28. M?rz 2009 schrieb ?ukasz Pankowski:
> Hello
> 
> I am the author of Finger friendly alarms [1].  Which I developed for
> Om 2008.12 up to version 0.2.
> 
> I am happy to announce version 0.2.1 of ffalarms which adds support
> for SHR (tested on SHR testing) -- for this I ported atd to work on
> top of FSO Framework Time API (called atd-over-fso available from
> ffalarms download page [2]).  Version 0.2 also fixes Daylight Saving
> Time problem and adds several minor improvements, see [3] for
> installation instructions and detailed changes and [2] for downloads.
> 
> Please report any problems or possible improvements (those may take
> long time to come :)).
> 
> [1] http://ffalarms.projects.openmoko.org/
> [2] http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=260
> [3] http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/shownotes.php?release_id=488

Hey great work! :)
Have you considered to port cron as well as atd? I know it's a little bit more 
demanding task, as we might want to modify crontab semantics to distinguish 
between jobs that wake the phone and those who are handled the "traditional" 
way. Also FSO might want to see a dbus interface to cron for *setting* new 
alarms (if they make up their mind to move this functionality from the 
designated PIMD to cron where it belongs to IMHO)

What's with batch(1) btw?

/jOERG
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From yorickmoko at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 01:50:32 2009
From: yorickmoko at gmail.com (Yorick Moko)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 01:50:32 +0200
Subject: [FSO] Trigger querty-keyboard from inside application
In-Reply-To: <49D6289D.5060606@uni-oldenburg.de>
References: <49D6289D.5060606@uni-oldenburg.de>
Message-ID: <26fea52c0904031650q5af8c36fwf192fc6b9b004e11@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Timo Scheffler
<timo.scheffler at uni-oldenburg.de> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I'm just starting to script something useful using fso, python and edje.
> I have some questions about the keyboard which I couldn't find the
> answer to...
>
> 1. Is there a way to trigger the keyboard using the framework or some
> other command I can let the python script work with?
> When a text-field gets focus, the keyboard should automaticaly appear
> (and since it's not like that now, my app could take care of that).
>
> 2. Where can I adjust the keyboard to have the "Terminal"-Layout as
> default after booting?
i think you just need to change the name of your terminal.kbd file to
something like aaaa.kbd
(it's alphabetically)
y
>
> Timo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



From fabian at ji-xiansheng.de  Sat Apr  4 04:18:20 2009
From: fabian at ji-xiansheng.de (Fabian Killus)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 04:18:20 +0200
Subject: GSM buzz-fix party in Braunschweig, Germany
Message-ID: <20090404041820.06d74717@tm4000.deathstar>

I'm really interested in this buzz-fix party. How is it supposed to be
organized and when exactly? Beginning of may? 
Will I have to register somewhere? What is the location in
Braunschweig? What about warranty from Openmoko?
I'm thinking of going by train to Braunschweig bringing one Freerunner
along. It's a good opportunity for me to visit this city and its
university (still not sure where I want to study).



From raster at rasterman.com  Sat Apr  4 02:51:06 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 11:51:06 +1100
Subject: The future of the Neo Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <20090403183310.GA4004@x.myhome.westell.com>
References: <5a4c54db0904031039l204d59d6i9a5f93812c4cce39@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090403183310.GA4004@x.myhome.westell.com>
Message-ID: <20090404115106.89f46f97.raster@rasterman.com>

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:33:10 -0400 carmen <_ at whats-your.name> said:

> On Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 07:39:19PM +0200, Thomas Bumberger wrote:
> > As Openmoko sacked/was left by 50% of its developers and halted the
> > development of GTA03
> > i want to know your opinion on the future of the Neo.
> > As it seems Openmoko stopped funding FSO too.
> 
> hello, are there any 3G phones which run debian and spport all the hardware
> yet? 

no. (if there are.. it's news to me and i'd like to know).

-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From lida_mail at 163.com  Sat Apr  4 05:33:44 2009
From: lida_mail at 163.com (Daniel.Li)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:33:44 +0800
Subject: which way is the easier
In-Reply-To: <aee831ab0904021111l3a201690q9d8f3bb27c323c12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4b7a31a0904010421x4578d67ag2dccd4936476ec63@mail.gmail.com>
	<aee831ab0904021111l3a201690q9d8f3bb27c323c12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1238816025.8877.1.camel@daniel-laptop>

On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 20:11 +0200, roby wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Anas Alzouhbi <anas.lbn at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello!
> > I succeed to do the ssh with my openmoko,but
> > the ways that I have found  to arrive to build the first program are:
> my suggestion: use shr-testing openembedded tree.
> I say this because the mokomakefile gave me so much frustration when i
> tried to use it that i stopped to try for some months, waiting for a
> better world :)
> In my experience the mokomakefile continuously get incompatible
> updates from upstream, and the probability of success of a complete
> build is really low (in my case 0%). Anyway, i am talking of the
> situation of september-october, so things may have changed.
> But when i tried to download and build shr-testing i found the heaven!
> Everything builds because the packet versions are fixed. In that
> environment you can easily make a port or try to write some new code,
> without falling in frustration.

Great! I have been build SHR for 2 days...... :( first build of
course....

Well, it takes a lot of time :( Continue....., Lucky, it's on my server
*NOT* my laptop :)
> 
> my 2c
> roby
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
-- 
Daniel.Li <lida_mail at 163.com>
PALFocus (http://palfocus.oicp.net)





From robin.paulson at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 07:26:02 2009
From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 18:26:02 +1300
Subject: [2008.12] gps sight with gpsd
Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904032226v14aa1d2ex62598ad1cbc8aeeb@mail.gmail.com>

i installed gps sight today and fired it up, but couldn't connect to
the gps. tango was showing a good fix, so gpsd was running. i looked
on the wiki page, and through some rather ambiguous writing, i
surmised that gps sight implements it's own intermediary for
communicating with the gps hardware. is this correct? i turned off
gpsd, but still couldn't get a fix.

does gypsy offer an alternative which will work for gps sight, and
gpsd reliant software?

cheers



From steve at openmoko.com  Sat Apr  4 08:27:02 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 23:27:02 -0700
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <49D5BC95.7040706@gmail.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>	<20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com> <49D5BC95.7040706@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D6FDB6.2090605@openmoko.com>

See below

Arigead wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Steve Mosher wrote:
>> Since I worked on the presentation with Sean for the days he was here in
>> SF, let me give you my view and sean's view. That way we won't get into
>> some version of the telephone game.
>>
>> Sean discussed three things at OpenExpo.
>>
>> 1. Our successes.
>> 2. Our mistakes.
>> 3. Our challenges
>>
>> I won't go over 1& 2 but I'll cover #3 since rasters perception has
>> a bit of color added to it. Only a tiny bit and he's entitled
>> to that color commentary, I'll just add what Sean and I, as authors
>> of the presentation, had as our message.
>>
>> Our biggest challenge was to make a choice about how to spend the
>> balance of 2009.
>>
>> There were two paths:
>> A: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch GTA03
>> B: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and  launch project B.
>>
>> We will talk more about project B in the coming months, but these
>> salient facts should be able to guide any budding executives out there.
>>
>> 1. GTA03 was in constant flux as a design.
>> 2. GTA03 schedule was consequently always slipping.
>> 3. The resources required for GTA03 are 3X those required for Project B.
>> 4. We don't have 3X.
>>
>> So, we picked plan B.
>>
>> Now comes the question, what about GTA03? how do we get there? And when?
>> and what is it?
>>
>> Well my basic argument was and is this:
>>
>> First we attend to the issues that still remain with the GTA02. That's
>> why the VP of marketing ( of all people) is working on the buzz fix
>> problem. Second we complete project B. When we've done that, then we
>> get to eat dessert. Essentially, I made the same argument I heard so
>> many times on this list: "How do expect us to buy a GTA03 when you've
>> yet to deliver on all the promise of FreeRunner?" And I took the
>> arguments I heard from disty seriously, "how do you expect us to buy FR,
>> when GTA03 is right around the corner?" And I accepted the arguments I 
>> heard from Engineers I respect who questioned the viability of the GTA03 
>> in the market place. All of those arguments said "put a bullet in its 
>> brain pan!"
>>
>>   So, what about GTA03? As it was defined, it is dead. So how do we
>> get to a new GTA03? Two requirements: continue to improve GTA02; deliver
>> on project B. What is GTA03 and when do we get there? There are a number
>> of independent efforts out there that are pitching me ideas for GTA03.
>> I talked to sean a bit about this and I'd like to try to open up more
>> of the design process and the marketing process to the community.
>> Perhaps on a separate list. Some of these discussions have already started.
>>
>> What can you do to help?
>> 1. Move GTA02 code upstream.
>> 2. Stay Involved.
>> 3. Continue work on applications
>> 4. Buy a FreeRunner.
>> 5. Get involved in GTA03 discussions
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:35:58 +0100 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org> said:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
>>>>> 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms at 1407.org>:
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote:
>>>>>>> He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying
>>>>>>> that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put
>>>>>>> in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units).
>>>>>> You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G
>>>>>> will get my money as far as I'm concerned :)
>>>>> Why the outrage?
>>>> I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that
>>>> gets less and less Free as new devices come up :)
>>>>
>>>> I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had
>>>> regarding that.
>>> 3g can be done - just like the 2g on feeerunner - you will talk to a closed
>>> blob via a defined protocol. just like any chip anywhere. no less free than
>>> gta02 in that way. BUT yes - you'll pay an extra $200.
>>>
>>> nb gta03 - you missed the news from sean's talk at openexpo in switzerland.
>>> gta03 is "postponed" (read cancelled - postponed is just a nice way to say it
>>> and try and keep the community hanging around in hope it un-cancels, as
>>> openmoko has laid off most of their staff (also news from openexpo), their
>>> linux staff. you don't un-postpone if you just let all the people go who work
>>> on the software).
>>>
> 
> Thanks for the clarification Steve, Carsten had be worried there for a
> moment. Can I say that I'm using the FR as my Daily Phone and I'm as
> happy as a pig in shit that when I find the time I can write new apps
> and improve existing apps. I think most of the people on these lists
> appreciates the philosophy of Open Source. I for one would love for Open
> Moko to make that philosophy successful in the Hardware arena.
> Regardless of what you produce as Plan B, even if it's a hair
> straightener, I'll buy one. ;-)

  Oh I think Raster's concerns are well placed. I know I have a mailbox 
full of requests from the press to explain what this all means. So I'll
make an official public statement to them probably tomorrow, but it 
won't be different from what I said here, just written better. I'm glad 
to hear you use your FR as a daily phone. Part of my goal is to get more 
people to say that. part of that involves people NOT USING their FR as a 
daily phone, but rather hacking their FR so that others benefit.

Now, I'll talk a little bit about making openness happen in the hardware
arena and explain why I recommended that the GTA03 be euthenized.
In the "mistakes" part of the presentation there are a couple of slides
that relate to hardware. One of them is the simple word "recamping" 
GTA03 went through a series of changes from 2008 all the way up to 2009.
My commentary on this went like so:  "GTA03 has a 1024 bug." Those of you
who have followed the FR are probably aware of the recamping bug or 
1024. For me 1024 was a metaphor for the problems with GTA03. It kept
bouncing from base station to another base station: first aiming to be 
one thing, then another, then yet another. Here is what I have found. It 
is better to pick a path, even a wrong one, and stick to it than it is 
to pick no path. The other slide in "mistakes"  has a picture of GTA02v5
And the title says "gcc GTA02v5  won't work." This was a metaphor for
how we sometimes viewed hardware. I argued that we sometimes viewed 
hardware like it was software; that is,  as something that
could be recompiled, patched, etc.  In the hardware world I came from
we would often slip changes in to shipping product. We called them
"silent phase ins" The transition from a5 to a6, for example, would be
a silent phase in. Nobody would ever know. When we faced the a5 to a6 
transition I suggested a silent phase in. The looks I got told me I must 
be from mars. It's all already open! there is no silent phase in Open 
Hardware. That's a huge challenge.

The GTA03 as a design had a recamping bug. it kept changing. and changes
of course, are perceived as "easy". after all, hardware is just like 
software.. I won't go through all the iterations of GTA03. But it's 
processor changed, the RFs changed, in the end the design had no
Wifi and no GPS. Raise your hand if think that a GTA03 with no wifi
and no GPS is good thing to sell to the community? Raise your hand if
you think it was a mistake to kill this? As I said, there are currently
a couple of lists that are discussing options for a GTA03. Some of them
just want to recamp on a previous version. Joerg and I would probably 
recamp on the GTA04 we defined back in sept of 08. In any case, Very 
shortly I'll open a list on  GTA03 and I'll attempt to make the entire 
product design process, including the business side, open to the 
community. For a long time people the community has been asking for this 
level of involvement. Let me know what you think.

WRT project B. Don't laugh about an open hair straightener. In fact,
one of our goals is to open more than just the phone. If it runs 
software, it should be open. But that's just a goal and not a product 
announcement.



> 
> Best of luck and keep us informed.
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> 
> iEYEARECAAYFAknVvHoACgkQXlbjSJ5n4BAmAwCggEMlwYwn44NIK1+1hu9YyZit
> 5pgAoLhLvdecshoZfkYUQ/SKX1pdK6eR
> =VDOI
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From steve at openmoko.com  Sat Apr  4 10:08:38 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 01:08:38 -0700
Subject: The future of the Neo Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <5a4c54db0904031039l204d59d6i9a5f93812c4cce39@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5a4c54db0904031039l204d59d6i9a5f93812c4cce39@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D71586.6080705@openmoko.com>

read my posts. I should have something official done this weekend.
I thought id get it done tonight, but lots of other things to do.
So, read my posts here. and ask me for clrification.

Thomas Bumberger wrote:
> As Openmoko sacked/was left by 50% of its developers and halted the
> development of GTA03
> i want to know your opinion on the future of the Neo.
> As it seems Openmoko stopped funding FSO too.
> 
> Are there any official statements beside the announcement yesterday at
> OpenExpo.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



From kimaidou at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 11:06:37 2009
From: kimaidou at gmail.com (kimaidou)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 11:06:37 +0200
Subject: ffalarms 0.2.1 and atd-over-fso (now works on SHR-testing)
In-Reply-To: <200904040123.19827.joerg@openmoko.org>
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<200904040123.19827.joerg@openmoko.org>
Message-ID: <40cd9ce40904040206s45d99e95n870fef4ee102fd5d@mail.gmail.com>

One question : is it possible to set a recurring alarm, eg each week day at
7:00 ? It would be a great feature
2 question : is it possible to increase the light as the sound to simulate a
down ?

Thanks anyway, great soft !

2009/4/4 Joerg Reisenweber <joerg at openmoko.org>

> Am Sa  28. M?rz 2009 schrieb ?ukasz Pankowski:
> > Hello
> >
> > I am the author of Finger friendly alarms [1].  Which I developed for
> > Om 2008.12 up to version 0.2.
> >
> > I am happy to announce version 0.2.1 of ffalarms which adds support
> > for SHR (tested on SHR testing) -- for this I ported atd to work on
> > top of FSO Framework Time API (called atd-over-fso available from
> > ffalarms download page [2]).  Version 0.2 also fixes Daylight Saving
> > Time problem and adds several minor improvements, see [3] for
> > installation instructions and detailed changes and [2] for downloads.
> >
> > Please report any problems or possible improvements (those may take
> > long time to come :)).
> >
> > [1] http://ffalarms.projects.openmoko.org/
> > [2] http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=260
> > [3] http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/shownotes.php?release_id=488
>
> Hey great work! :)
> Have you considered to port cron as well as atd? I know it's a little bit
> more
> demanding task, as we might want to modify crontab semantics to distinguish
> between jobs that wake the phone and those who are handled the
> "traditional"
> way. Also FSO might want to see a dbus interface to cron for *setting* new
> alarms (if they make up their mind to move this functionality from the
> designated PIMD to cron where it belongs to IMHO)
>
> What's with batch(1) btw?
>
> /jOERG
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
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From liedekef at telenet.be  Sat Apr  4 12:08:15 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 12:08:15 +0200
Subject: [QtExtended] latest and greatest, progress mail 3
Message-ID: <20090404120815.2ec515f8@telenet.be>

(install instructions: see below)

New progress/bugs:

All Ok:
- alarms (using atd from
  http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/armv4t/base/, since no
  newer package exists), normal + when suspended
- wake up when receiving sms
- call + echo check
- missed call bug
- duplicate sms thing: solved
- voice notes (see my mail/patch) ok
- mail ok
- wifi ok
- usb cable handling: ok (mailed a patch to Filip, I hope he integrates
  all the 2.6.28 patches and commits them)

Problems:
- bluetooth
  ==> "bluetooth not available" error
- sms stay on SIM as well as on phone
  ==> All sms's are stored on the phone *and* on the SIM. I don't think
that this is wanted behaviour (deleting an SMS only works on the SMS's
stored on the phone)
- alarm kept on vibrating this morning (I missed the first alarm, and
  probably after some time it suspended and restarted but the vibrating
  continued even after I pressed "dismiss").
- if you set the time back to something in the past, the clock service
  crashes and you need to restart qtextended if you want to use the
  clock again

Installing instructions:
download the script http://users.telenet.be/liedekef/openmoko_install.sh
read the comments at the top and then execute the script on your
openmoko (after having flashed the device and made sure internet works)

Franky



From nan.oo at gmx.de  Sat Apr  4 12:27:43 2009
From: nan.oo at gmx.de (noo)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 12:27:43 +0200
Subject: ReMoko on SHR - python error
Message-ID: <200904041227.44240.nan.oo@gmx.de>

If I'm running remoko, the error log is:
--
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/bin/remoko", line 39, in <module>
    from remoko.remoko_server import *
ImportError: No module named remoko.remoko_server
--
setting the PYTHONPATH to 
/usr/lib/python2.6/:/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/:/usr/lib/python2.6/site-
packages/remoko/
doesn't help, too.

Who knows the correct Pythonpath, or any else help? Thanks!
And Yes, the remoko-server is installed;-)
And I ran it with the DISPLAY=:0 variable.
Any Idea?



From fernando at cmartins.nl  Sat Apr  4 12:52:16 2009
From: fernando at cmartins.nl (Fernando Martins)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:52:16 +0200
Subject: [SHR] from debian to shr ;-)
In-Reply-To: <18db98c80904020915p76dc8430o4426e0e18eca79d1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18db98c80903300157n37155b32g2d767c2ff5bad90d@mail.gmail.com>	<18db98c80904011225t575064f8kd158a1ed0f502a12@mail.gmail.com>	<18db98c80904020642m2c3a6b0eq8a21ada09e0bcbec@mail.gmail.com>	<200904021635.49549.mok@mnet-online.de>
	<18db98c80904020915p76dc8430o4426e0e18eca79d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D73BE0.1020506@cmartins.nl>

Davide Scaini wrote:
> [writing from fr now]
>   
Could you just summarise which network/email tools/setup you are using 
to achieve this?


Thanks,
Fernando



From nicola.mfb at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 12:57:30 2009
From: nicola.mfb at gmail.com (Nicola Mfb)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 12:57:30 +0200
Subject: The future of the Neo Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <200904032018.00349.tanuva@gmail.com>
References: <5a4c54db0904031039l204d59d6i9a5f93812c4cce39@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904032018.00349.tanuva@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <359c5480904040357m1824f415u454905cb602b3e9c@mail.gmail.com>

2009/4/3 Marcel <tanuva at googlemail.com>
[...]

> 2. These devs don't belong to Openmoko Inc. anymore, but they still
> contribute
> heavily to one or another aspect of the OM world. Afaik.
>

And what's about Openmoko new software stack roadmap?
If it will not fund FSO, those developers may decide to stay a bit relaxed.

     Nicola
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From foringer at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 13:23:41 2009
From: foringer at gmail.com (foringer at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 15:23:41 +0400
Subject: Problems in openmoko-messages
Message-ID: <ade383570904040423p2a328895o8353a75820eb681f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello list!

Lately I started to use SHR testing distrib on my FR device and found very
big problem. I'm from Russia and want to send SMS messages on my native
language, but cannot do it. When I type a new message in russian language -
nothing is displayed on the screen, when typing in english everything is ok.
I can perfectly receive message in Russian, but cannot send. Need your help.

Big thanks...
Nik
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From nan.oo at gmx.de  Sat Apr  4 13:49:09 2009
From: nan.oo at gmx.de (noo)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 13:49:09 +0200
Subject: ReMoko on SHR - python error
Message-ID: <200904041349.09582.nan.oo@gmx.de>

I got it running through:

1. /usr/bin/remoko 
39-41 changing remoko.remoko_server in remoko_server (and so on)
2. mkdir /usr/share/remoko/data
3. cp /usr/share/remoko/* /usr/share/remoko/data/

Can't believe that this is working propperly, cause I got the remote not 
running yet...




From rask at sygehus.dk  Sat Apr  4 14:56:45 2009
From: rask at sygehus.dk (Rask Ingemann Lambertsen)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 14:56:45 +0200
Subject: Internal USB devices (Was: Using 3G USB dongle)
In-Reply-To: <84prfup0tt.fsf@sauna.l.org>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D52D5F.7060100@gmail.com> <84bpreqojo.fsf_-_@sauna.l.org>
	<20090403075949.GC22406@cumulus> <84prfup0tt.fsf@sauna.l.org>
Message-ID: <20090404125644.GR27350@sygehus.dk>

On Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 12:02:06PM +0300, Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote:
 
> I'd love to be able to fit USB devices inside the case but I have not
> looked at how to reroute USB easily inside the device.

   There has been some discussion about this already:
https://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2009-January/000951.html
https://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2009-January/000953.html
https://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2009-January/000955.html
http://www.instructables.com/id/Four-port-USB-hub/

   Also, the LDO3 voltage regulator on the PCF50633 is unused and capable of
supplying 50 mA.

-- 
Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year



From rask at sygehus.dk  Sat Apr  4 15:04:27 2009
From: rask at sygehus.dk (Rask Ingemann Lambertsen)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 15:04:27 +0200
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <49D56431.8030905@videotron.ca>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090402162338.GA1522@yamamaya.is-a-geek.org>
	<20090403110228.19a91dc1.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D56431.8030905@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <20090404130427.GS27350@sygehus.dk>

On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 09:19:45PM -0400, Iain B. FIndleton wrote:
> Well, that clears things up a bit. So, there is no way to get rid of the 
> draping one sees when the display is refreshed? My stuff uses double 
> buffering, but your comments appear to indicate that that is a waste of  
> time.

   The Glamo doesn't have a vblank interrupt. Try to search the bug tracker,
though, because there was a mention of an alternative means of getting
double buffering to work.

-- 
Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year



From mok at mnet-online.de  Sat Apr  4 15:18:08 2009
From: mok at mnet-online.de (Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 15:18:08 +0200
Subject: Problems in openmoko-messages
In-Reply-To: <ade383570904040423p2a328895o8353a75820eb681f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ade383570904040423p2a328895o8353a75820eb681f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200904041518.08290.mok@mnet-online.de>

Am Samstag 04 April 2009 13:23:41 schrieb foringer at gmail.com:
> Hello list!
>
> Lately I started to use SHR testing distrib on my FR device and found very
> big problem. I'm from Russia and want to send SMS messages on my native
> language, but cannot do it. When I type a new message in russian language -
> nothing is displayed on the screen, when typing in english everything is
> ok. I can perfectly receive message in Russian, but cannot send. Need your
> help.
This is a known problem with enlightenment and UTF8 input... Don't know of a 
fix... not even in sight.

>
> Big thanks...
> Nik

Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann




From karadog at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 15:30:59 2009
From: karadog at gmail.com (HouYu Li)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 21:30:59 +0800
Subject: [QtExtendedImproved] Which kernel?
In-Reply-To: <200904040046.15565.MartinBern@web.de>
References: <200904040046.15565.MartinBern@web.de>
Message-ID: <ea736a480904040630t35ffb6fdx62897e6b24268246@mail.gmail.com>

Oh...... I think I didn't make it clear. Please use the old 2.6.24 kernel
here
http://dashi-x02.karadog.net/~lihouyu/qtextended/4.4.3/testing-om-gta02-20090120.uImage.bin
for
the current snapbuilds. We will use Qt 4.5 and add kernel 2.6.28 support
soon.

On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 6:46 AM, Martin Bernreuther <MartinBern at web.de>wrote:

> Hello,
>
> it's nice, that
>        http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qt_Extended_Improved
> now contains a link to a prebuild actual Qt Extended Improved.
> (http://dashi-x02.karadog.net/~lihouyu/qtextended/snapbuild/)
> Thanks for the effort to HouYu Li(?)!
>
> But what is the prefered kernel?
> (no readme found at
> http://dashi-x02.karadog.net/~lihouyu/qtextended/snapbuild/qt-extended-improved-20090403/
> )
> Maybe...
>
> http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/unstable/daily/om-gta02/20090403/uImage-2.6.28-andy-tracking+gitr6+9c4451ff31b937a478f3d3eabef30b71cbe12b12-r3-om-gta02.bin
> or the last stable one? Or still a 2.6.24 one?...
>
> Which version of u-boot/qi is used?
>
> Thanks,
>        Martin
>
> P.S.: I think there was something about this on the list, but I can't
> remember where...
> P.P.S.: I'll add this info to the wiki, if no one else wants to do it...
> --
> _________________________________________
> Martin Bernreuther      MartinBern at web.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



-- 
Best Regards

HouYu Li, Karajan

karajan_ii (at) hotmail.com
karadog (at) gmail.com
lihouyu (at) phpex.net

PHP Developer
Red Hat Certified Engineer

Shanghai, China
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From rask at sygehus.dk  Sat Apr  4 15:33:26 2009
From: rask at sygehus.dk (Rask Ingemann Lambertsen)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 15:33:26 +0200
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <49D66E18.4010005@mauve.plus.com>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<49D6003F.8030803@videotron.ca>
	<20090404000116.fb30ba69.raster@rasterman.com>
	<20090403142548.ae55d8f8.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<20090404003822.c5fe4477.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D61734.6090807@videotron.ca> <49D66E18.4010005@mauve.plus.com>
Message-ID: <20090404133326.GT27350@sygehus.dk>

On Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 09:14:16PM +0100, Ian Stirling wrote:
> Iain B. FIndleton wrote:

> > I 
> > wonder what the issue is in moving the frame buffer data? At the speeds 
> > available on the FR, moving 640 x 480 x 2 = 614,400 bytes from memory to 
> > a video buffer at 30 Hz needs about 18 MB/sec.
> > 
> > What is the bandwidth for memory moves?
> 
> About 6-8 or so - with 100% CPU utilisation

   There are four DMA channels in the s3c422b, so you shouldn't use the CPU
for straight memcpy() of such large blocks. The kernel doesn't yet support
mem->mem DMA transfers, but I'm working on that to use it in the glamo SD
card driver.

-- 
Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year



From raster at rasterman.com  Sat Apr  4 15:45:22 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 00:45:22 +1100
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <20090404133326.GT27350@sygehus.dk>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<49D6003F.8030803@videotron.ca>
	<20090404000116.fb30ba69.raster@rasterman.com>
	<20090403142548.ae55d8f8.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<20090404003822.c5fe4477.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D61734.6090807@videotron.ca> <49D66E18.4010005@mauve.plus.com>
	<20090404133326.GT27350@sygehus.dk>
Message-ID: <20090405004522.f7317847.raster@rasterman.com>

On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 15:33:26 +0200 Rask Ingemann Lambertsen <rask at sygehus.dk>
said:

> On Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 09:14:16PM +0100, Ian Stirling wrote:
> > Iain B. FIndleton wrote:
> 
> > > I 
> > > wonder what the issue is in moving the frame buffer data? At the speeds 
> > > available on the FR, moving 640 x 480 x 2 = 614,400 bytes from memory to 
> > > a video buffer at 30 Hz needs about 18 MB/sec.
> > > 
> > > What is the bandwidth for memory moves?
> > 
> > About 6-8 or so - with 100% CPU utilisation
> 
>    There are four DMA channels in the s3c422b, so you shouldn't use the CPU
> for straight memcpy() of such large blocks. The kernel doesn't yet support
> mem->mem DMA transfers, but I'm working on that to use it in the glamo SD
> card driver.

that was tried. results were worse than with the cpu. try again - but.. been
there, done that. ask dodji skeleti. :)

1. the memory bus is locked up anyway - be it cpu or dma cycles. if dma does it
the cpu is still locked out, so it's not done async.
2. the actual performance was much worse - at best it was 1/2 the speed of
using the cpu. but it was actually overall even worse on smaller blocks.


-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From liedekef at telenet.be  Sat Apr  4 16:15:38 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 16:15:38 +0200
Subject: latest and greatest, progress mail 4 (stable 2.6.28 usage)
Message-ID: <20090404161538.40c27634@telenet.be>

(install instructions updated on 2090404: see below)

New progress/bugs:

All Ok:
- 20090401: 2.6.28 ok (even 2.6.29-rc2 ok)
- 20090401: alarms (using atd from
  http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/armv4t/base/, since no
  newer package exists), normal + when suspended
- 20090401: wake up when receiving sms
- 20090401: call + echo check
- 20090401: missed call bug
- 20090401: duplicate sms thing: solved
- 20090401: mail ok
- 20090401: wifi ok
- 20090403: voice notes (see my mail/patch) ok
- 20090404: usb cable handling: ok (mailed a patch to Filip, I hope he
  integrates all the 2.6.28 patches and commits them)
- 20090404: bluetooth ok (need to downgrade to bluez3 and not use
  bluez4, install script updated accordingly)

Problems (more like small nuisances now):
- sms stay on SIM as well as on phone
  ==> All sms's are stored on the phone *and* on the SIM. I don't think
  that this is wanted behaviour (deleting an SMS only works on the
  SMS's stored on the phone)
- alarm kept on vibrating this morning (I missed the first alarm, and
  probably after some time it suspended and restarted but the vibrating
  continued even after I pressed "dismiss").
- if you set the time back to something in the past, the clock service
  crashes and you need to restart qtextended if you want to use the
  clock again
- if you reboot, wlan is "online" and you need to put it offline (can
  cause battery issues)
- second call incoming needs to be checked if working ok

Install instructions:
=====================
download the script http://users.telenet.be/liedekef/openmoko_install.sh
read the comments at the top and then execute the script on your
openmoko (after having flashed the device and made sure internet works)

Enjoy!

Franky



From dscaini at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 16:25:39 2009
From: dscaini at gmail.com (Davide Scaini)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 16:25:39 +0200
Subject: [SHR] from debian to shr ;-)
In-Reply-To: <49D73BE0.1020506@cmartins.nl>
References: <18db98c80903300157n37155b32g2d767c2ff5bad90d@mail.gmail.com>
	<18db98c80904011225t575064f8kd158a1ed0f502a12@mail.gmail.com>
	<18db98c80904020642m2c3a6b0eq8a21ada09e0bcbec@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904021635.49549.mok@mnet-online.de>
	<18db98c80904020915p76dc8430o4426e0e18eca79d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D73BE0.1020506@cmartins.nl>
Message-ID: <18db98c80904040725u70d788dbob7028a29cc84e070@mail.gmail.com>

i'm using shr testing that's quite stable... [some issues with sound
resume and gsm registering, but i guess it's just a kernel problem]

i use a wep static ip network and a dhcp  wpa one, i have some
interfaces files that i switch between. to check my gmail account i
use minimo that's really fast [and has https support]. some times i
use dillo for specific uses.
if you need more infos just ask, if you have some fixes... tell me!
d


On 4/4/09, Fernando Martins <fernando at cmartins.nl> wrote:
> Davide Scaini wrote:
>> [writing from fr now]
>>
> Could you just summarise which network/email tools/setup you are using
> to achieve this?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Fernando
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



From frazier.cameron at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 16:32:50 2009
From: frazier.cameron at gmail.com (Cameron Frazier)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 10:32:50 -0400
Subject: [SHR] from debian to shr ;-)
In-Reply-To: <18db98c80904040725u70d788dbob7028a29cc84e070@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18db98c80903300157n37155b32g2d767c2ff5bad90d@mail.gmail.com>
	<18db98c80904011225t575064f8kd158a1ed0f502a12@mail.gmail.com>
	<18db98c80904020642m2c3a6b0eq8a21ada09e0bcbec@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904021635.49549.mok@mnet-online.de>
	<18db98c80904020915p76dc8430o4426e0e18eca79d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D73BE0.1020506@cmartins.nl>
	<18db98c80904040725u70d788dbob7028a29cc84e070@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1238855570.24587.40.camel@toaster-desktop>

On Sat, 2009-04-04 at 16:25 +0200, Davide Scaini wrote:
> ...
> i use a wep static ip network and a dhcp  wpa one, i have some
> interfaces files that i switch between. 
> ...

I can get a DHCP WEP network to connect fine (work), but at home (DHCP
WPA) I get nothing.  You mention that you have different interface
files, coul dyou describe the differences between them.  Obviously there
are the proto and private ssid/psk/key differences, but are there
general setup differences?

Kind regards,

Cameron
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From kimaidou at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 17:35:02 2009
From: kimaidou at gmail.com (kimaidou)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 17:35:02 +0200
Subject: [openBmap] Version 0.2.0 released of the GSM cell, GPS logger
In-Reply-To: <49D649B5.1020406@free.fr>
References: <49D1325A.6060804@free.fr>
	<40cd9ce40904020045j45c07b59te69b044933373cbc@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D4E345.9060907@free.fr>
	<40cd9ce40904021125r500e673fg57083d3632efa5b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D649B5.1020406@free.fr>
Message-ID: <40cd9ce40904040835s3020cfb7s36fec76f792e75dd@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

Thanks a lot for this !
I will report bugs if I see any.

Cheers
Kimaidou

2009/4/3 Onen <onen.om at free.fr>

> Hello,
>
> ok, thanks for the explanations.
>
> Here you go:
> http://www.opkg.org/package_186.html
>
> Let me know if you see errors, possible improvements, etc...
>
> Onen
>
> kimaidou wrote:
> > Hi
> > About the advantages of opkg.org <http://opkg.org>
> > * a software dedicated website, so that I can easily know the new and
> > updated softs with rss feeds (I don't have to filter the new entries in
> > the openmoko wiki and get lost among the amount of information)
> > * a small description for each software (you can do this on a wiki page,
> > I know), and each soft has the same description page template
> > * at the moment, there is a small number of distro (SHR and OM are the
> > most used), but this does not say that it will stay forever, so it could
> > be hard to ask the developper of each new platform to integrate it on
> > the repos
> > * a lot of visitors
> > * you do not have to store the ipk on opkg. A link or description to
> > your repo is OK . So you can do both : put a description on opkg, and
> > put the package in the distro feeds
> >
> >   I believe a portal containing a updated list of all softwares is great
> > for the users who are not always connected to the mailing lists and
> > wikis. For example, I saw the Hackable:A developpers have released a
> > great rss reader application (
> > https://trac.hackable1.org/trac/wiki/FeedReader ) . It could be used by
> > users using another debian based distribution (fyp or other), but there
> > is no way for them to know. If this app was in opkg, everyone would know
> > (I know, this is not a good examplen, as opkg is only for ipk package
> > and not deb, but you understand the meaning :D )
> >
> > Cheers
> > Kimaidou
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
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From alastair at truebox.co.uk  Sat Apr  4 17:53:02 2009
From: alastair at truebox.co.uk (Alastair Johnson)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 16:53:02 +0100
Subject: Linphone not available?
In-Reply-To: <1238699506180-2577054.post@n2.nabble.com>
References: <1235140604377-2359208.post@n2.nabble.com>	<1237488961392-2504714.post@n2.nabble.com>	<200903192045.45594.openmoko@mazikeen.demon.co.uk>	<1237512980670-2506595.post@n2.nabble.com>	<200903201538.41624.openmoko@mazikeen.demon.co.uk>	<1237569806431-2510130.post@n2.nabble.com>	<200903201924.25330.openmoko@mazikeen.demon.co.uk>
	<1238699506180-2577054.post@n2.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <49D7825E.1010606@truebox.co.uk>

yacine wrote:
> I just wanted to say thank you for provided the packages. Using them I was able to install linphonec v1.6
>   

I have the 3.x series linphone working now, available in the feeds under:
http://openmoko.truebox.co.uk/repos/mazikeen/fso-milestone5/ipk/

I didn't have time to post the bitbake recipe for the svn build before
going away, so expect that in a couple of weeks. This has the gui
working too, but you will still have to change the alsa scenario manually.

> My problem now is the voice path. 
> I have created a free sip account from iptel.org. I tested the account using a PC sip client and it worked just fine. 
>
> The problem occurs when I try to use the same sip account on the OM and call the echo number I get this: 
>
> warning: Unknown nb_ctl request:  12
> ortp-error-Could not set vbr mode to speex encoder.
> warning: Unknown nb_ctl request:  34
>
>   

It looks like the local speex doesn't support one of the options the far
end wants to use. You could try disabling the speex codec in .linphonerc
or try the updated linphone version.

> Also, before making the call I get:
> Registration on sip:iptel.org sucessful.
>
>   

That's a good sign.

> I followed instructions in here . 
>
> I also tried testing my microphone and speakers with voicenote . It worked. 
>   




From baba_melone at yahoo.de  Sat Apr  4 18:06:11 2009
From: baba_melone at yahoo.de (hab keen oh ne)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 16:06:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Multivast over USB?
Message-ID: <908528.25596.qm@web26308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi,
Im currently working with multicast for my internship at a university. For testing I tried to let my computer and the FR communicate multicasted over USB, but it didnt work, my pc was unable to join the multicast group of the neo. Via LAN it worked with another computer, same software, same settings. Any ideas? A universitie's guy said, that probably Multicast isnt supported over USB, is that right? Is there work going on so this will be implemented in the future, some kind of cdc_ether2.0?
Greetings,
Martin Puffe.



      
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From alastair at truebox.co.uk  Sat Apr  4 19:03:24 2009
From: alastair at truebox.co.uk (Alastair Johnson)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:03:24 +0100
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D792DC.7070908@truebox.co.uk>

Tony Berth wrote:
> - tangoGPS still crashes when trying to change the settings :(

IIRC there's a missing dependency on dbus-x11 which provides the session
bus that it uses to access the config. Install it then reboot and all
should be fine.



From hns at computer.org  Sat Apr  4 21:12:32 2009
From: hns at computer.org (Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 21:12:32 +0200
Subject: IPhoneOS on Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <49D4A362.5020301@gmail.com>
References: <056ED8DF-6D07-459F-A27A-B5922AC35F6D@computer.org>
	<49D4A362.5020301@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FFAF7EFB-1A25-4215-8CAB-CBAB2E203123@computer.org>


Am 02.04.2009 um 13:37 schrieb ivanshirokoff at gmail.com:

> Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller ?????:
>> Have you seen yesterday?
>>
>> http://openmoko-fr.org/wiki/index.php/IPhoneOS_on_Freerunner
>>
>> Well, it is/was a good April joke.
>>
>> But this one isn't.
>>
> Have you ckecked it out?
>> http://www.quantum-step.com/wiki.php?page=About
>> http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/gallery/menu.php?gallery=members&album_id=16

Yes. You need to mail the developers to get a beta tar package and  
some special instructions to install it on the Freerunner. And you  
need to start it from the command line since it is not integrated into  
a flash image.

The GUI has some rough edges but it already works as a technology  
demonstrator. I have played some GNUchess on its GUI. It is not  
complete, but has a lot of potential. Even the potential to run real  
iPhone apps since it is also based completely on C and Objective-C.




From riso at om.ksp.sk  Sat Apr  4 22:29:41 2009
From: riso at om.ksp.sk (Richard Kralovic)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 22:29:41 +0200
Subject: Transparent keyboard in illume
In-Reply-To: <40cd9ce40904030440u324612c3ua5936e1687b467cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49B41F29.30802@om.ksp.sk>	<ffce06340903081339s11233f44scf8396e0cc9f386f@mail.gmail.com>	<49B42E4C.7050503@om.ksp.sk>
	<49B58C91.3020404@strapp.co.uk>	<49B634B7.8020700@om.ksp.sk>	<1e3adca60903101421i7898b9e1s468c85b82a25682e@mail.gmail.com>	<1e3adca60903120006q38f294a3hf553b10ab04cbe41@mail.gmail.com>	<49B8D5AE.3090409@om.ksp.sk>	<40cd9ce40904020130l6a068189j6b572c0f9ce15fd@mail.gmail.com>	<49D5DF4F.2000908@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904030440u324612c3ua5936e1687b467cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D7C335.7040003@om.ksp.sk>

Hello,

> thanks for you reply. I would need some more help before running the
> installation process. I will write a wiki page on openmoko.org

Ok, I try to be more verbose. If you have more questions, just ask :-):

>     There are also feeds for shr testing
>     http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr
>     <http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/%7Erkralovi/shr>
> 
> 
> I will use this since I run SHR testing

Most of the packages was compiled on 19 March. So, if SHR testing didn't
change too much since then, it might be a good choice. If it doesn't
work, let me know an I try to recompile for recent SHR testing.

> I think SHR testing uses FSO5, so I have nothing to install, right ?

Shr uses FSO, but FSO-M5 is basically a different distribution, with
different versions of packages. So I am not sure if versions for FSO-M5
are ok to install into SHR testing.

>     So, basically it should just work if you add this to your opkg feeds:

You have to create a file /etc/opkg/meru.conf with the following content:

src/gz meru-all http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr/ipk/all
src/gz meru-armv4t http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr/ipk/armv4t
src/gz meru-om-gta02 http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr/ipk/om-gta02

> After this, I will run opkg update

Yes.

> Is this correct (or do I need to add some more command lines ?):

Try just
opkg update
opkg install xserver-kdrive-glamo xcompmgr qwo e-wm

I am not sure if xserver and e-wm will be reinstalled - if not, try
opkg -force-depends remove xserver-kdrive-glamo
opkg -force-depends remove e-wm
and then opkg install ...

> #modifiy the file */etc/X11/Xserver
> nano **/etc/X11/Xserver
> And add *ARGS="$ARGS +extension Composite"
> 
> #creating a file to launch xcompmgr and load it
> echo "xcompmgr &" > /etc/X11/Xsession.d/xcompmgr_start
> chmod +x /etc/X11/Xsession.d/xcompmgr_start
> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/xcompmgr_start

Yes.

After restarting illume and selecting qwo as the keyboard, everything
_should_ work. But please be aware that if the packages versions from
shr-testing of my repository are not compatible with your version of
shr-testing (which may well be the case), you can end up with quite
broken system. So I recommend you to have backup (maybe whole image of
rootfs).

> This is all I understoof reading your email and the webpage. Can you
> please comment / modify it ?

If you have more questions, just ask :-)

Greets
	Richard



From steve at openmoko.com  Sat Apr  4 23:33:14 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 14:33:14 -0700
Subject: Bying a Freerunner with the "buzz"-fix on it
In-Reply-To: <bff0f0570904031000r788cdf70qa4e222c80ac8ddfe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49AC7C33.50000@gmx.at> <goitfh$h5u$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<49ADC6C7.9030701@openmoko.com>
	<bff0f0570904031000r788cdf70qa4e222c80ac8ddfe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D7D21A.6080001@openmoko.com>



C?dric Berger wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 02:09, Steve Mosher <steve at openmoko.com> wrote:
>> so much for my schedules.
>>
>>  There were some issues with ALSA states. so manufacturing got put on
>> hold. then Chinese new year. I'll have an update shortly on A7.
>>
>>
> 
> So as I understand these were issues not only relating to software ?
   The issues are as follows:
   1. A delay due to the timing of chinese new year. factories shut down.
   2. We needed to check that the ALSA states in the production image
     gave a good experience on the A7.
   3. Engineering a smooth transition in the channel between the A6
      which is in inventory, and the A7.
   4. Coming up with a plan for fixing as much of the buzz issue on
      existing stock as possible.
   5. Working with our distributors to roll the A7 out.
> Because if it was just a matter of alsa states files not ready yet,
> production would not have to be put on hold (hey if openmoko would
> wait for software be ready to start production, no freerunner would be
> existing yet ;-) )
   Sorry, but I got the hammer on this one. I didnt want to launch A7 
and  require customers to reflash as their first chore. Further, I 
wanted to go over the test results myself for the phones sent to test 
before I committed to SMT and assembly. I did that in late feb.
> 
> And if it is the buzz fix (by adding the cap) that causes potential
> problems... what about the SOP currently applied to freerunners ? They
> may be impacted by incorrect ALSA states ?
  Yes, that was a concern of mine as well, so this too had to be checked 
and verified. The complication being that a reworked A6 can only be 
distinguished AFAIK by visual inspection and not by checking a bit in 
the hardware. Joerg may correct me on this, but I believe the only ALSA 
state setting that may be effected is the mic sensitivity or gain ( 
can't recall, exactly )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh... and still no update about A7 production ? Since I probably have
> my phone to be replaced (broken button), I am waiting for Bearstech to
> get new phones.... (they are out of stock, and anyway since I have to
> send my phone I want either a A7 or at least the buzz fix applied...
> not having to send it again later to get it fixed...)

  When distributors start to take shipments of A7 ( see 1-5 above) we 
will make an announcement. The buzz fixing program is coming together
with Tuxbrain taking a pivotal role in working through the logistics
with me.



From cedric.berger74 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 00:15:50 2009
From: cedric.berger74 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E9dric_Berger?=)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 00:15:50 +0200
Subject: Bying a Freerunner with the "buzz"-fix on it
In-Reply-To: <49D7D21A.6080001@openmoko.com>
References: <49AC7C33.50000@gmx.at> <goitfh$h5u$1@ger.gmane.org> 
	<49ADC6C7.9030701@openmoko.com>
	<bff0f0570904031000r788cdf70qa4e222c80ac8ddfe@mail.gmail.com> 
	<49D7D21A.6080001@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <bff0f0570904041515j5641358dmd3d786710b1a0c95@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all these precisions !

Good to have more infos...





2009/4/4 Steve Mosher <steve at openmoko.com>:
[...]
> ?When distributors start to take shipments of A7 ( see 1-5 above) we will
> make an announcement. The buzz fixing program is coming together
> with Tuxbrain taking a pivotal role in working through the logistics
> with me.
>



From robin.paulson at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 00:28:21 2009
From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 10:28:21 +1200
Subject: [openBmap] Version 0.2.0 released of the GSM cell, GPS logger
In-Reply-To: <49D1325A.6060804@free.fr>
References: <49D1325A.6060804@free.fr>
Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904041528x56fc426fp126e68e11a99c099@mail.gmail.com>

2009/3/31 Onen <onen.om at free.fr>:
i tried the new version of openbmap today, and got this error when i ran it:

import openbmap.logger
ImportError: No module named openbmap.logger

am i missing a dependency?



From steve at openmoko.com  Sun Apr  5 01:29:16 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 16:29:16 -0700
Subject: Bying a Freerunner with the "buzz"-fix on it
In-Reply-To: <bff0f0570904041515j5641358dmd3d786710b1a0c95@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49AC7C33.50000@gmx.at> <goitfh$h5u$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<49ADC6C7.9030701@openmoko.com>
	<bff0f0570904031000r788cdf70qa4e222c80ac8ddfe@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D7D21A.6080001@openmoko.com>
	<bff0f0570904041515j5641358dmd3d786710b1a0c95@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D7ED4C.7000702@openmoko.com>

  your welcomed.

  I really got behind on my list mail. Now that I'm back down to zero 
unread mails on the community its easier for me to respond in a timely
fashion.

C?dric Berger wrote:
> Thanks for all these precisions !
> 
> Good to have more infos...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2009/4/4 Steve Mosher <steve at openmoko.com>:
> [...]
>>  When distributors start to take shipments of A7 ( see 1-5 above) we will
>> make an announcement. The buzz fixing program is coming together
>> with Tuxbrain taking a pivotal role in working through the logistics
>> with me.
>>



From rask at sygehus.dk  Sun Apr  5 01:49:10 2009
From: rask at sygehus.dk (Rask Ingemann Lambertsen)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 01:49:10 +0200
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <49D6FDB6.2090605@openmoko.com>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
	<20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com> <49D5BC95.7040706@gmail.com>
	<49D6FDB6.2090605@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <20090404234909.GU27350@sygehus.dk>

On Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 11:27:02PM -0700, Steve Mosher wrote:
> The GTA03 as a design had a recamping bug. it kept changing. and changes
> of course, are perceived as "easy". after all, hardware is just like 
> software.. I won't go through all the iterations of GTA03. But it's 
> processor changed, the RFs changed, in the end the design had no
> Wifi and no GPS. Raise your hand if think that a GTA03 with no wifi
> and no GPS is good thing to sell to the community? Raise your hand if
> you think it was a mistake to kill this?

   Yes, I think GPS and Wifi/WLAN can be considered a requirement these days
for anything else than a basic cell phone.

   I kind of like the GTA02.5 idea (see Tim Dobson's message) as a follow up
to the GTA02:

Upgrade S3C2442B to S3C6410.
Take out the Glamo, including
   - using the S3C LCM interface for the display.
   - using the S3C SDIO interface for the SD card connector. This means
     finding somewhere else to hook up the Wifi chip (and in turn finding
     another Wifi chip I guess).
Upgrade Calypso GSM to Cinterion MC75i.

Time, space and cost permitting:
Camera on S3C6410 camera interface.
Stylus with middle and right "mouse" buttons.
Increased maximum display brightness.
Increased maximum speaker volume.

Generally keep everything else as in GTA02v8.

   Most of this was already being worked on for the GTA03 - certainly the
kernel patches suggest so. So I'm curious what changed so much in the
intended usages of the GTA03 (compared to GTA02) that it had to be cance^W^H
postponed. The Neo1973 was released in July 2007 and the Freerunner in July
2008, so with about the same number of changes for the new device as between
the two previous ones, perhaps a "GTA2.5" could have been out in about July
2009. It must have been more than just the volume up/down buttons that did
it.

-- 
Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year



From robertlazarski at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 02:21:09 2009
From: robertlazarski at gmail.com (robert lazarski)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 21:21:09 -0300
Subject: Slashdotted
Message-ID: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>

http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/04/228240&art_pos=2

Not pretty. As someone who has been lurking on this list for 1 1/2
years, patiently waiting to buy a phone but trying to avoid buzz fix
parties if I could help it, I suppose its not surprising. On the
positive side, I'll stick around to see what happens with plan b - if
that is there's anyone left to develop it and its not vapor. I like
the idea of Freerunner, just not its execution. I'd like to surprised
though and see a turn around. And yes, I'll probably buy one that
ships without hardware problems.

- R



From david at tuxbrain.com  Sun Apr  5 03:06:31 2009
From: david at tuxbrain.com (David Reyes Samblas Martinez)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 03:06:31 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>

Yes very sad wrong titular "No More OpenMoko Phone " and very
discorageus comentaries :(

2009/4/5 robert lazarski <robertlazarski at gmail.com>:
> http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/04/228240&art_pos=2
>
> Not pretty. As someone who has been lurking on this list for 1 1/2
> years, patiently waiting to buy a phone but trying to avoid buzz fix
> parties if I could help it, I suppose its not surprising. On the
> positive side, I'll stick around to see what happens with plan b - if
> that is there's anyone left to develop it and its not vapor. I like
> the idea of Freerunner, just not its execution. I'd like to surprised
> though and see a turn around. And yes, I'll probably buy one that
> ships without hardware problems.
>
> - R
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



-- 
David Reyes Samblas Martinez
http://www.tuxbrain.com
Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!



From david at tuxbrain.com  Sun Apr  5 03:39:02 2009
From: david at tuxbrain.com (David Reyes Samblas Martinez)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 03:39:02 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>

only add that replies are quite unfair to a any free project whatever
it succeed or not.

2009/4/5 David Reyes Samblas Martinez <david at tuxbrain.com>:
> Yes very sad wrong titular "No More OpenMoko Phone " and very
> discorageus comentaries :(
>
> 2009/4/5 robert lazarski <robertlazarski at gmail.com>:
>> http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/04/228240&art_pos=2
>>
>> Not pretty. As someone who has been lurking on this list for 1 1/2
>> years, patiently waiting to buy a phone but trying to avoid buzz fix
>> parties if I could help it, I suppose its not surprising. On the
>> positive side, I'll stick around to see what happens with plan b - if
>> that is there's anyone left to develop it and its not vapor. I like
>> the idea of Freerunner, just not its execution. I'd like to surprised
>> though and see a turn around. And yes, I'll probably buy one that
>> ships without hardware problems.
>>
>> - R
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>
>
>
> --
> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
> http://www.tuxbrain.com
> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
>



-- 
David Reyes Samblas Martinez
http://www.tuxbrain.com
Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!



From steve at openmoko.com  Sun Apr  5 03:50:16 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:50:16 -0700
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <20090404234909.GU27350@sygehus.dk>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>	<20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>	<49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com>
	<49D5BC95.7040706@gmail.com>	<49D6FDB6.2090605@openmoko.com>
	<20090404234909.GU27350@sygehus.dk>
Message-ID: <49D80E58.8060001@openmoko.com>



Rask Ingemann Lambertsen wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 11:27:02PM -0700, Steve Mosher wrote:
>> The GTA03 as a design had a recamping bug. it kept changing. and changes
>> of course, are perceived as "easy". after all, hardware is just like 
>> software.. I won't go through all the iterations of GTA03. But it's 
>> processor changed, the RFs changed, in the end the design had no
>> Wifi and no GPS. Raise your hand if think that a GTA03 with no wifi
>> and no GPS is good thing to sell to the community? Raise your hand if
>> you think it was a mistake to kill this?
> 
>    Yes, I think GPS and Wifi/WLAN can be considered a requirement these days
> for anything else than a basic cell phone.
> 
>    I kind of like the GTA02.5 idea (see Tim Dobson's message) as a follow up
> to the GTA02:
> 
> Upgrade S3C2442B to S3C6410.
> Take out the Glamo, including
>    - using the S3C LCM interface for the display.
>    - using the S3C SDIO interface for the SD card connector. This means
>      finding somewhere else to hook up the Wifi chip (and in turn finding
>      another Wifi chip I guess).
> Upgrade Calypso GSM to Cinterion MC75i.

   That's pretty close to one iteration the design went through.
> 
> Time, space and cost permitting:
> Camera on S3C6410 camera interface.
> Stylus with middle and right "mouse" buttons.
> Increased maximum display brightness.
> Increased maximum speaker volume.
   Design had a capacitive screen and a camera.
> 
> Generally keep everything else as in GTA02v8.
  More had to change, like wifi chip vendor.
> 
>    Most of this was already being worked on for the GTA03 - certainly the
> kernel patches suggest so. So I'm curious what changed so much in the
> intended usages of the GTA03 (compared to GTA02) that it had to be cance^W^H
> postponed. The Neo1973 was released in July 2007 and the Freerunner in July
> 2008, so with about the same number of changes for the new device as between
> the two previous ones, perhaps a "GTA2.5" could have been out in about July
> 2009. It must have been more than just the volume up/down buttons that did
> it.
> 
  One of the schedules had a July Ship date, essentially as you 
describe. 6410, agps,wifi,camera,BT, accels. 2.5G ( after some early 
flirtations with 3G which just set us back ) the difficult was threefold:

  1. Getting price separation from the FreeRunner. could I charge 499 for
     such a phone. With FreeRunner at 399 would processor bump and a 
camera justify a +100 dollar adder.
  2. Fitting all of this inside the ID we had for the phone. The ID is
   complete as well as mechanical and there were issues with the latter
   fitting in the former without some serious work and comprimises.
  3. Some manufacturing challenges for the case. a few key unknowns.
  4. Antenna design issues. With all those RFs in the case we had it was
     a serious concern whether it would work or not.



From mjrauhal at cc.helsinki.fi  Sun Apr  5 04:59:11 2009
From: mjrauhal at cc.helsinki.fi (Mikko Rauhala)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 05:59:11 +0300
Subject: Recommended GTA01 images?
Message-ID: <1238900351.12275.160.camel@phantom.hip>

Hi

It seems that my FRs are suffering from additional HW woes to the usual
ones, and I just contacted my vendor with warranty questions.

Meanwhile, what's hot nowadays for a GTA01 if one wants the phone
functions to somewhat work, and yeah, suspend too preferrably?

-- 
Mikko Rauhala <mjr at iki.fi>       - http://www.iki.fi/mjr/blog/  
The Finnish Pirate Party         - http://piraattipuolue.fi/  
World Transhumanist Association  - http://transhumanism.org/  
Singularity Institute            - http://singinst.org/  





From ben at abcom.co.nz  Sun Apr  5 05:40:50 2009
From: ben at abcom.co.nz (Ben Wilson)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:40:50 +1200
Subject: Recommended GTA01 images?
In-Reply-To: <1238900351.12275.160.camel@phantom.hip>
References: <1238900351.12275.160.camel@phantom.hip>
Message-ID: <49D82842.6080902@abcom.co.nz>

try   shr-lite-image-om-gta01.jffs2   from
http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/om-gta01/

Seems to work great on my gta01, dialling / suspend / sms etc..
By default it won't suspend automatically after x seconds, but this 
might be easy to change.
I just suspend it myself before putting it in my pocket every time 
(click X at homescreen for shutdown/suspend options).
It has always woken up from suspend when calls or txt arrive. so yeah, 
seems perfectly stable to me for everyday use.

There's some shr tweaks here
(some may already have been done to the image, ie, i didn't have to do 
fast suspend and no echo)
http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Tweaks

The GPRS scripts here also work for me
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPRS_FSO
It doesn't have a browser in the image however you can opkg install one

Ben

Mikko Rauhala wrote:
> Hi
>
> It seems that my FRs are suffering from additional HW woes to the usual
> ones, and I just contacted my vendor with warranty questions.
>
> Meanwhile, what's hot nowadays for a GTA01 if one wants the phone
> functions to somewhat work, and yeah, suspend too preferrably?
>
>   



From sebbil at gmx.de  Sun Apr  5 08:26:10 2009
From: sebbil at gmx.de (Sebastian Billaudelle)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:26:10 +0200
Subject: Multivast over USB?
In-Reply-To: <908528.25596.qm@web26308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <908528.25596.qm@web26308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1238912771.32293.1.camel@thinky>

Am Samstag, den 04.04.2009, 16:06 +0000 schrieb hab keen oh ne:
> Hi,
> Im currently working with multicast for my internship at a university.

Sounds interesting:)

> A universitie's guy said, that probably Multicast isnt supported over
> USB, is that right?

Would you please attach the output of "ifconfig" on your Neo and PC?
On some interfaces MCast is disabled by default. You can change this by
adding a route.

Cheers,
Sebastian





From cchandel at yahoo.com  Sun Apr  5 08:59:35 2009
From: cchandel at yahoo.com (c_c)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 23:59:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
Message-ID: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>


Hi,
  Well, it took a lot longer than I thought - but finally  - here's the alpha release of Intone - a mplayer frontend (for audio files - as of now) in C. Uses about 2% CPU (max) while running - memory goes up depending on your playlist - on my phone (~2500 songs) it uses about 15%.
  All you need to do is download the attached ipk and install it. Intone depends on sqlite3 and libelementary. If you have elementary on your phone upgraded to a level where the elementary test application shows you a demo of sliders and genlists, Intone should run on your phone.
  The recommended way to organise music is to put all the files in a folder (lets say Music), with sub folders named after artists (say Music ->Eagles) and with sub sub folders holding albums (that becomes Music->Eagles->Hell Freezes Over->*.mp3). That way, Intone can correctly organise your music collection into albums. It automatically creates a default playlist containing all songs and individual playlists for each album. I have added features to manage playlists and albums - but there is always scope for improvement.
  Intone uses a sqlite database as a backend for the playlists and albums. That should, hopefully, give flexibility in adding more features later.
  
   Things that don't work as of now :-

1. Feedback. - I haven't been able to add dialogs yet. So - wait a little while for Intone to finish long operations (like adding your music collection for the first time - my 2500 odd songs took about 6 secs - the button remains pressed too)
2. Dialogs for deleting stuff. It's safe - Intone does not delete any files - but it does delete tables(albums and playlists) - and it doesn't yet ask for confirmation.
3. Seek. Dont know how to use the slider for seeking. Any Ideas?
4. DBUS. - Haven't gotten around to learning edbus - so no occupy resouce CPU or pause on incoming calls yet. Will take some more time.
5. Album art and lyrics. - Don't yet know the best way to go about doing this other than downloading art from some retailers etc. Ideas welcome.
6. Toggle View. Not working yet. I intend having 2 more views - Album Art and Lyrics.

  I'm also looking at adding support for the button that the standard handsfree has - as a volume control (3 preselcted levels in rotation) or to go to next song (1 click) and prev song (2 clicks). Any suggestions?

  Since I also have half a podcast manager built (which I couldn't finish in time for the competition) - I'm also looking at adding that support in the future.

  Feedback Required
1. Bug reports.
2. Artwork - Ideas / png's / whatever
3. Elementary help. I have a lot of questions. Here are a few :-
    a) How do I reduce the vert height of 1 entry in the genlist? Right now each line in the list is too high (almost 3 text lines high) - so I get only about 4 song names on the screen. Can I reduce the height to say 1.5 text line - 2 text line?
    b) How do I use the pager with a genlist? In my case the pager works - but it doesn't show the genlist - the buttons all show up though.
    c) Dialogs and progress bars. I know elementary doesn't have them - but can I make/have a simple ty solution for the time being?

Oh! And I'm only adding .oga, .mp3, .m4a and wma files into the albums. Any other types I need to add?

I'll upload the code to intone.googlecode.com soon. 
All feedback welcome. Thanks.
intone_0.20_arm.ipk 
-- 
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Intone-%280.20---alpha-release%29-Elementary-based-mplayer-frontend-tp2587826p2587826.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




From raster at rasterman.com  Sun Apr  5 09:05:48 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 17:05:48 +1000
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <20090405170548.ba70d889.raster@rasterman.com>

On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 23:59:35 -0700 (PDT) c_c <cchandel at yahoo.com> said:

where's the source... luke? :)

> Hi,
>   Well, it took a lot longer than I thought - but finally  - here's the alpha
> release of Intone - a mplayer frontend (for audio files - as of now) in C.
> Uses about 2% CPU (max) while running - memory goes up depending on your
> playlist - on my phone (~2500 songs) it uses about 15%. All you need to do is
> download the attached ipk and install it. Intone depends on sqlite3 and
> libelementary. If you have elementary on your phone upgraded to a level where
> the elementary test application shows you a demo of sliders and genlists,
> Intone should run on your phone. The recommended way to organise music is to
> put all the files in a folder (lets say Music), with sub folders named after
> artists (say Music ->Eagles) and with sub sub folders holding albums (that
> becomes Music->Eagles->Hell Freezes Over->*.mp3). That way, Intone can
> correctly organise your music collection into albums. It automatically
> creates a default playlist containing all songs and individual playlists for
> each album. I have added features to manage playlists and albums - but there
> is always scope for improvement. Intone uses a sqlite database as a backend
> for the playlists and albums. That should, hopefully, give flexibility in
> adding more features later. Things that don't work as of now :-
> 
> 1. Feedback. - I haven't been able to add dialogs yet. So - wait a little
> while for Intone to finish long operations (like adding your music collection
> for the first time - my 2500 odd songs took about 6 secs - the button remains
> pressed too)
> 2. Dialogs for deleting stuff. It's safe - Intone does not delete any files -
> but it does delete tables(albums and playlists) - and it doesn't yet ask for
> confirmation.
> 3. Seek. Dont know how to use the slider for seeking. Any Ideas?
> 4. DBUS. - Haven't gotten around to learning edbus - so no occupy resouce CPU
> or pause on incoming calls yet. Will take some more time.
> 5. Album art and lyrics. - Don't yet know the best way to go about doing this
> other than downloading art from some retailers etc. Ideas welcome.
> 6. Toggle View. Not working yet. I intend having 2 more views - Album Art and
> Lyrics.
> 
>   I'm also looking at adding support for the button that the standard
> handsfree has - as a volume control (3 preselcted levels in rotation) or to
> go to next song (1 click) and prev song (2 clicks). Any suggestions?
> 
>   Since I also have half a podcast manager built (which I couldn't finish in
> time for the competition) - I'm also looking at adding that support in the
> future.
> 
>   Feedback Required
> 1. Bug reports.
> 2. Artwork - Ideas / png's / whatever
> 3. Elementary help. I have a lot of questions. Here are a few :-
>     a) How do I reduce the vert height of 1 entry in the genlist? Right now
> each line in the list is too high (almost 3 text lines high) - so I get only
> about 4 song names on the screen. Can I reduce the height to say 1.5 text
> line - 2 text line? b) How do I use the pager with a genlist? In my case the
> pager works - but it doesn't show the genlist - the buttons all show up
> though. c) Dialogs and progress bars. I know elementary doesn't have them -
> but can I make/have a simple ty solution for the time being?
> 
> Oh! And I'm only adding .oga, .mp3, .m4a and wma files into the albums. Any
> other types I need to add?
> 
> I'll upload the code to intone.googlecode.com soon. 
> All feedback welcome. Thanks.
> intone_0.20_arm.ipk 
> -- 
> View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/Intone-%280.20---alpha-release%29-Elementary-based-mplayer-frontend-tp2587826p2587826.html
> Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 


-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From kimaidou at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 09:28:15 2009
From: kimaidou at gmail.com (kimaidou)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:28:15 +0200
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <20090405170548.ba70d889.raster@rasterman.com>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<20090405170548.ba70d889.raster@rasterman.com>
Message-ID: <40cd9ce40904050028j26418973w21efd06e2d028693@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

for album cover, the best way  is to look for a file called cover.png or
folder .png (or jpgs) and display it.

Thanks for this 1st release

2009/4/5 Carsten Haitzler <raster at rasterman.com>

> On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 23:59:35 -0700 (PDT) c_c <cchandel at yahoo.com> said:
>
> where's the source... luke? :)
>
> > Hi,
> >   Well, it took a lot longer than I thought - but finally  - here's the
> alpha
> > release of Intone - a mplayer frontend (for audio files - as of now) in
> C.
> > Uses about 2% CPU (max) while running - memory goes up depending on your
> > playlist - on my phone (~2500 songs) it uses about 15%. All you need to
> do is
> > download the attached ipk and install it. Intone depends on sqlite3 and
> > libelementary. If you have elementary on your phone upgraded to a level
> where
> > the elementary test application shows you a demo of sliders and genlists,
> > Intone should run on your phone. The recommended way to organise music is
> to
> > put all the files in a folder (lets say Music), with sub folders named
> after
> > artists (say Music ->Eagles) and with sub sub folders holding albums
> (that
> > becomes Music->Eagles->Hell Freezes Over->*.mp3). That way, Intone can
> > correctly organise your music collection into albums. It automatically
> > creates a default playlist containing all songs and individual playlists
> for
> > each album. I have added features to manage playlists and albums - but
> there
> > is always scope for improvement. Intone uses a sqlite database as a
> backend
> > for the playlists and albums. That should, hopefully, give flexibility in
> > adding more features later. Things that don't work as of now :-
> >
> > 1. Feedback. - I haven't been able to add dialogs yet. So - wait a little
> > while for Intone to finish long operations (like adding your music
> collection
> > for the first time - my 2500 odd songs took about 6 secs - the button
> remains
> > pressed too)
> > 2. Dialogs for deleting stuff. It's safe - Intone does not delete any
> files -
> > but it does delete tables(albums and playlists) - and it doesn't yet ask
> for
> > confirmation.
> > 3. Seek. Dont know how to use the slider for seeking. Any Ideas?
> > 4. DBUS. - Haven't gotten around to learning edbus - so no occupy resouce
> CPU
> > or pause on incoming calls yet. Will take some more time.
> > 5. Album art and lyrics. - Don't yet know the best way to go about doing
> this
> > other than downloading art from some retailers etc. Ideas welcome.
> > 6. Toggle View. Not working yet. I intend having 2 more views - Album Art
> and
> > Lyrics.
> >
> >   I'm also looking at adding support for the button that the standard
> > handsfree has - as a volume control (3 preselcted levels in rotation) or
> to
> > go to next song (1 click) and prev song (2 clicks). Any suggestions?
> >
> >   Since I also have half a podcast manager built (which I couldn't finish
> in
> > time for the competition) - I'm also looking at adding that support in
> the
> > future.
> >
> >   Feedback Required
> > 1. Bug reports.
> > 2. Artwork - Ideas / png's / whatever
> > 3. Elementary help. I have a lot of questions. Here are a few :-
> >     a) How do I reduce the vert height of 1 entry in the genlist? Right
> now
> > each line in the list is too high (almost 3 text lines high) - so I get
> only
> > about 4 song names on the screen. Can I reduce the height to say 1.5 text
> > line - 2 text line? b) How do I use the pager with a genlist? In my case
> the
> > pager works - but it doesn't show the genlist - the buttons all show up
> > though. c) Dialogs and progress bars. I know elementary doesn't have them
> -
> > but can I make/have a simple ty solution for the time being?
> >
> > Oh! And I'm only adding .oga, .mp3, .m4a and wma files into the albums.
> Any
> > other types I need to add?
> >
> > I'll upload the code to intone.googlecode.com soon.
> > All feedback welcome. Thanks.
> > intone_0.20_arm.ipk
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> >
> http://n2.nabble.com/Intone-%280.20---alpha-release%29-Elementary-based-mplayer-frontend-tp2587826p2587826.html
> > Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community at lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
>
>
> --
> ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
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From fercerpav at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 09:48:05 2009
From: fercerpav at gmail.com (Paul Fertser)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 11:48:05 +0400
Subject: Wifi problems, WPA/WEP differences (was: Re: [SHR] from debian to shr
	; -))
In-Reply-To: <1238855570.24587.40.camel@toaster-desktop> (Cameron Frazier's
	message of "Sat\, 04 Apr 2009 10\:32\:50 -0400")
References: <18db98c80903300157n37155b32g2d767c2ff5bad90d@mail.gmail.com>
	<18db98c80904011225t575064f8kd158a1ed0f502a12@mail.gmail.com>
	<18db98c80904020642m2c3a6b0eq8a21ada09e0bcbec@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904021635.49549.mok@mnet-online.de>
	<18db98c80904020915p76dc8430o4426e0e18eca79d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D73BE0.1020506@cmartins.nl>
	<18db98c80904040725u70d788dbob7028a29cc84e070@mail.gmail.com>
	<1238855570.24587.40.camel@toaster-desktop>
Message-ID: <m2hc13fsne.fsf_-_@home.pavel.comp>

Cameron Frazier <frazier.cameron at gmail.com> writes:
> On Sat, 2009-04-04 at 16:25 +0200, Davide Scaini wrote:
>> ...
>> i use a wep static ip network and a dhcp  wpa one, i have some
>> interfaces files that i switch between. 
>> ...
>
> I can get a DHCP WEP network to connect fine (work), but at home (DHCP
> WPA) I get nothing.  You mention that you have different interface
> files, coul dyou describe the differences between them. 

I've had successful connections with open, WEP and WPA networks. And i've
seen an AP i couldn't connect at all too. It looks like FR's wifi is
incompatible with some APs, no matter if encryption is used or
not. See http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket//1250 for example.

To sum up: FR's wifi has 2 kinds of known problems: incompatibility
with particular APs and instability of the internal firmware.

Using an old (pre-.28) kernel is not recommended due to stability
issues. Also i think Werner is still going to finish his daemon to
promptly power-cycle the wifi module on internal firmware crash; that
can improve stability somewhat.

I wouldn't hope these compatibility issues will ever be fixed, so my
advice is: trade your AP for the one FR can work with. 

-- 
Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
mailto:fercerpav at gmail.com



From cchandel at yahoo.com  Sun Apr  5 09:15:13 2009
From: cchandel at yahoo.com (c_c)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 00:15:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <20090405170548.ba70d889.raster@rasterman.com>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<20090405170548.ba70d889.raster@rasterman.com>
Message-ID: <1238915713793-2587842.post@n2.nabble.com>



On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 23:59:35 -0700 (PDT) c_c <cchandel at yahoo.com> said:

where's the source... luke? :)

 Ha  Kind of expected you to be among the first to post. Well, I'm still travelling - and have a cr**y to no connection. Will post code by evening today.

-- 
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Intone-%280.20---alpha-release%29-Elementary-based-mplayer-frontend-tp2587826p2587842.html
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From cchandel at yahoo.com  Sun Apr  5 10:10:24 2009
From: cchandel at yahoo.com (c_c)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 01:10:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <40cd9ce40904050028j26418973w21efd06e2d028693@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<20090405170548.ba70d889.raster@rasterman.com>
	<40cd9ce40904050028j26418973w21efd06e2d028693@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1238919024417-2587932.post@n2.nabble.com>


Hi,
  Well, the code is now on intone.googlecode.com. Go easy - I'm coding in elementary and sqlite3 for the first time :-) - so I know it's pretty rough!

@kimaidou - I'm looking more at a method of downloading album art from the internet - for albums without any art. Also the lyrics (which is easier).
Thanks for the suggestion though - was missing that one.
-- 
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Intone-%280.20---alpha-release%29-Elementary-based-mplayer-frontend-tp2587826p2587932.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




From raster at rasterman.com  Sun Apr  5 10:31:34 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 18:31:34 +1000
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <1238919024417-2587932.post@n2.nabble.com>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<20090405170548.ba70d889.raster@rasterman.com>
	<40cd9ce40904050028j26418973w21efd06e2d028693@mail.gmail.com>
	<1238919024417-2587932.post@n2.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <20090405183134.de29efe2.raster@rasterman.com>

On Sun, 5 Apr 2009 01:10:24 -0700 (PDT) c_c <cchandel at yahoo.com> said:

> 
> Hi,
>   Well, the code is now on intone.googlecode.com. Go easy - I'm coding in
> elementary and sqlite3 for the first time :-) - so I know it's pretty rough!
> 
> @kimaidou - I'm looking more at a method of downloading album art from the
> internet - for albums without any art. Also the lyrics (which is easier).
> Thanks for the suggestion though - was missing that one.

ok... going to go light...

you need to clean up your svn! it's full of auto-generated files! :) clean
clean clean! give it some order! :)
you need to not code paths like /usr/share/intone/intone_songs.db into the code
also thats a file you will modify - it should be in the users homedir like
~/.intone/.... ummm.. gui wise - you should respond to delete request callbacks
(see elm code - the elm wiki on e's trac etc.). otherwise.. i'll skip the rest
and go easy :) just some suggestions. otherwise.. good job! :)


-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From sebbil at gmx.de  Sun Apr  5 10:38:17 2009
From: sebbil at gmx.de (Sebastian Billaudelle)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 10:38:17 +0200
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1238920698.6689.0.camel@thinky>

Wow! That's great!

Thanks for that great player!

Am Samstag, den 04.04.2009, 23:59 -0700 schrieb c_c:
> Hi,
>   Well, it took a lot longer than I thought - but finally  - here's the alpha release of Intone - a mplayer frontend (for audio files - as of now) in C. Uses about 2% CPU (max) while running - memory goes up depending on your playlist - on my phone (~2500 songs) it uses about 15%.
>   All you need to do is download the attached ipk and install it. Intone depends on sqlite3 and libelementary. If you have elementary on your phone upgraded to a level where the elementary test application shows you a demo of sliders and genlists, Intone should run on your phone.
>   The recommended way to organise music is to put all the files in a folder (lets say Music), with sub folders named after artists (say Music ->Eagles) and with sub sub folders holding albums (that becomes Music->Eagles->Hell Freezes Over->*.mp3). That way, Intone can correctly organise your music collection into albums. It automatically creates a default playlist containing all songs and individual playlists for each album. I have added features to manage playlists and albums - but there is always scope for improvement.
>   Intone uses a sqlite database as a backend for the playlists and albums. That should, hopefully, give flexibility in adding more features later.
>   
>    Things that don't work as of now :-
> 
> 1. Feedback. - I haven't been able to add dialogs yet. So - wait a little while for Intone to finish long operations (like adding your music collection for the first time - my 2500 odd songs took about 6 secs - the button remains pressed too)
> 2. Dialogs for deleting stuff. It's safe - Intone does not delete any files - but it does delete tables(albums and playlists) - and it doesn't yet ask for confirmation.
> 3. Seek. Dont know how to use the slider for seeking. Any Ideas?
> 4. DBUS. - Haven't gotten around to learning edbus - so no occupy resouce CPU or pause on incoming calls yet. Will take some more time.
> 5. Album art and lyrics. - Don't yet know the best way to go about doing this other than downloading art from some retailers etc. Ideas welcome.
> 6. Toggle View. Not working yet. I intend having 2 more views - Album Art and Lyrics.
> 
>   I'm also looking at adding support for the button that the standard handsfree has - as a volume control (3 preselcted levels in rotation) or to go to next song (1 click) and prev song (2 clicks). Any suggestions?
> 
>   Since I also have half a podcast manager built (which I couldn't finish in time for the competition) - I'm also looking at adding that support in the future.
> 
>   Feedback Required
> 1. Bug reports.
> 2. Artwork - Ideas / png's / whatever
> 3. Elementary help. I have a lot of questions. Here are a few :-
>     a) How do I reduce the vert height of 1 entry in the genlist? Right now each line in the list is too high (almost 3 text lines high) - so I get only about 4 song names on the screen. Can I reduce the height to say 1.5 text line - 2 text line?
>     b) How do I use the pager with a genlist? In my case the pager works - but it doesn't show the genlist - the buttons all show up though.
>     c) Dialogs and progress bars. I know elementary doesn't have them - but can I make/have a simple ty solution for the time being?
> 
> Oh! And I'm only adding .oga, .mp3, .m4a and wma files into the albums. Any other types I need to add?
> 
> I'll upload the code to intone.googlecode.com soon. 
> All feedback welcome. Thanks.
> intone_0.20_arm.ipk 




From robin.paulson at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 10:52:16 2009
From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 20:52:16 +1200
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904050152o732b85eax643a8016fdc2bf00@mail.gmail.com>

2009/4/5 c_c <cchandel at yahoo.com>:
excellent, i'd love to have a look at this - would you be willing to
add it, and it's dependencies (libelementary0 et al), to opkg.org?

cheers



From seba.dos1 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 11:09:50 2009
From: seba.dos1 at gmail.com (Johny Tenfinger)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:09:50 +0000
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904050152o732b85eax643a8016fdc2bf00@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<2f3aa2770904050152o732b85eax643a8016fdc2bf00@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c30e08170904050209j6a0c5992wf25a2aa6b097cfda@mail.gmail.com>

Opkg? And then hearing complaining of all Om2008.12 lames? Don't do that! ;x

e_dbus is only mainloop. After setting up SessionBus with that
mainloop you can use dbus as always.

To async callbacks look at reply_handler in dbus and ecore_idler_add
in GUI. Examples (in python) you can find in shr-settings.

For dialogs, use Inwin widget. For seeking use Slider, as it's used in
shr-settings Display (backlight) module.

Looks like you are implementing very good idea. I will look at it
later, when only I have my FR near ;)

2009/4/5, Robin Paulson <robin.paulson at gmail.com>:
> 2009/4/5 c_c <cchandel at yahoo.com>:
> excellent, i'd love to have a look at this - would you be willing to
> add it, and it's dependencies (libelementary0 et al), to opkg.org?
>
> cheers
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



From seba.dos1 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 11:13:06 2009
From: seba.dos1 at gmail.com (Johny Tenfinger)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:13:06 +0000
Subject: Wifi problems, WPA/WEP differences (was: Re: [SHR] from debian to 
	shr ; -))
In-Reply-To: <m2hc13fsne.fsf_-_@home.pavel.comp>
References: <18db98c80903300157n37155b32g2d767c2ff5bad90d@mail.gmail.com>
	<18db98c80904011225t575064f8kd158a1ed0f502a12@mail.gmail.com>
	<18db98c80904020642m2c3a6b0eq8a21ada09e0bcbec@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904021635.49549.mok@mnet-online.de>
	<18db98c80904020915p76dc8430o4426e0e18eca79d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D73BE0.1020506@cmartins.nl>
	<18db98c80904040725u70d788dbob7028a29cc84e070@mail.gmail.com>
	<1238855570.24587.40.camel@toaster-desktop>
	<m2hc13fsne.fsf_-_@home.pavel.comp>
Message-ID: <c30e08170904050213i16450b07ic64548f18309fbc7@mail.gmail.com>

My AP worked well with .24 kernel. With .28 and .29 it doesn't (I've
connected once for about month)

2009/4/5, Paul Fertser <fercerpav at gmail.com>:
> Cameron Frazier <frazier.cameron at gmail.com> writes:
>> On Sat, 2009-04-04 at 16:25 +0200, Davide Scaini wrote:
>>> ...
>>> i use a wep static ip network and a dhcp  wpa one, i have some
>>> interfaces files that i switch between.
>>> ...
>>
>> I can get a DHCP WEP network to connect fine (work), but at home (DHCP
>> WPA) I get nothing.  You mention that you have different interface
>> files, coul dyou describe the differences between them.
>
> I've had successful connections with open, WEP and WPA networks. And i've
> seen an AP i couldn't connect at all too. It looks like FR's wifi is
> incompatible with some APs, no matter if encryption is used or
> not. See http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket//1250 for example.
>
> To sum up: FR's wifi has 2 kinds of known problems: incompatibility
> with particular APs and instability of the internal firmware.
>
> Using an old (pre-.28) kernel is not recommended due to stability
> issues. Also i think Werner is still going to finish his daemon to
> promptly power-cycle the wifi module on internal firmware crash; that
> can improve stability somewhat.
>
> I wouldn't hope these compatibility issues will ever be fixed, so my
> advice is: trade your AP for the one FR can work with.
>
> --
> Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
> mailto:fercerpav at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



From seba.dos1 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 11:16:03 2009
From: seba.dos1 at gmail.com (Johny Tenfinger)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:16:03 +0000
Subject: Recommended GTA01 images?
In-Reply-To: <49D82842.6080902@abcom.co.nz>
References: <1238900351.12275.160.camel@phantom.hip>
	<49D82842.6080902@abcom.co.nz>
Message-ID: <c30e08170904050216v5905919ag99ae75b942d4f6cb@mail.gmail.com>

You can use GPRS without scripts ;) Use shr-unstable (which is stable
enough again ;D) and use SHR Settings to connect ;)

2009/4/5, Ben Wilson <ben at abcom.co.nz>:
> try   shr-lite-image-om-gta01.jffs2   from
> http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/om-gta01/
>
> Seems to work great on my gta01, dialling / suspend / sms etc..
> By default it won't suspend automatically after x seconds, but this
> might be easy to change.
> I just suspend it myself before putting it in my pocket every time
> (click X at homescreen for shutdown/suspend options).
> It has always woken up from suspend when calls or txt arrive. so yeah,
> seems perfectly stable to me for everyday use.
>
> There's some shr tweaks here
> (some may already have been done to the image, ie, i didn't have to do
> fast suspend and no echo)
> http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Tweaks
>
> The GPRS scripts here also work for me
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPRS_FSO
> It doesn't have a browser in the image however you can opkg install one
>
> Ben
>
> Mikko Rauhala wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> It seems that my FRs are suffering from additional HW woes to the usual
>> ones, and I just contacted my vendor with warranty questions.
>>
>> Meanwhile, what's hot nowadays for a GTA01 if one wants the phone
>> functions to somewhat work, and yeah, suspend too preferrably?
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



From onen.om at free.fr  Sun Apr  5 11:16:05 2009
From: onen.om at free.fr (Onen)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 11:16:05 +0200
Subject: [openBmap] Version 0.2.0 released of the GSM cell, GPS logger
In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904041528x56fc426fp126e68e11a99c099@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49D1325A.6060804@free.fr>
	<2f3aa2770904041528x56fc426fp126e68e11a99c099@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D876D5.1060005@free.fr>

Hi Robin,

thanks for trying it out :-)

Did you use the packages directly from the FSO or SHR feeds, or manually 
downloaded the ipk?

The module is provided directly by the package and should be located 
under [python site-package directory]/openbmap/logger.py

Under FSO 5.1 this is:
/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/openbmap/logger.py

But the FSO team has moved from older version of python to the 2.6 in 
release 5.0, if I recall correctly. Before the path was sth like:
/usr/lib/python2.X/site-packages/openbmap/logger.py

So if you have downloaded manually the package, and installed it under 
an image where this is not the path, you would have to move the content 
of [...]/site-packages/openbmap/ to the right path of your installation.

Let me know if that helps,

Onen

Robin Paulson wrote:
> 2009/3/31 Onen <onen.om at free.fr>:
> i tried the new version of openbmap today, and got this error when i ran it:
> 
> import openbmap.logger
> ImportError: No module named openbmap.logger
> 
> am i missing a dependency?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community




From baba_melone at yahoo.de  Sun Apr  5 11:17:14 2009
From: baba_melone at yahoo.de (hab keen oh ne)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:17:14 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: AW: Multicast over USB?
In-Reply-To: <1238912771.32293.1.camel@thinky>
References: <908528.25596.qm@web26308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<1238912771.32293.1.camel@thinky>
Message-ID: <496334.55403.qm@web26305.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Corrected Multivast to Multicast^^
Well, Multicast seems to be running on the usb network devices
Here the output on the FR:

usb0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr BE:23:B2:E6:9C:21
          inet addr:192.168.0.202  Bcast:192.168.0.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::bc23:b2ff:fee6:9c21/64 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:137 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:118 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
          RX bytes:16976 (16.5 KiB)  TX bytes:14411 (14.0 KiB)

and here on my host(unfortunately in German):

usb0      Link encap:Ethernet  Hardware Adresse 92:3C:A3:BC:33:8B  
          inet Adresse:192.168.0.200  Bcast:192.168.0.255  Maske:255.255.255.0
          inet6 Adresse: fe80::903c:a3ff:febc:338b/64 G?ltigkeitsbereich:Verbindung
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:78 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:90 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          Kollisionen:0 Sendewarteschlangenl?nge:1000
          RX bytes:8681 (8.4 KiB)  TX bytes:13249 (12.9 KiB)




________________________________
Von: Sebastian Billaudelle <sebbil at gmx.de>
An: List for Openmoko community discussion <community at lists.openmoko.org>
Gesendet: Sonntag, den 5. April 2009, 08:26:10 Uhr
Betreff: Re: Multivast over USB?

Am Samstag, den 04.04.2009, 16:06 +0000 schrieb hab keen oh ne:
> Hi,
> Im currently working with multicast for my internship at a university.

Sounds interesting:)

> A universitie's guy said, that probably Multicast isnt supported over
> USB, is that right?

Would you please attach the output of "ifconfig" on your Neo and PC?
On some interfaces MCast is disabled by default. You can change this by
adding a route.

Cheers,
Sebastian



_______________________________________________
Openmoko community mailing list
community at lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



      
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From seba.dos1 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 11:18:46 2009
From: seba.dos1 at gmail.com (Johny Tenfinger)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:18:46 +0000
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>

It seems like "plan B" doesn't share anything with phones and... Linux ;(

2009/4/5, David Reyes Samblas Martinez <david at tuxbrain.com>:
> only add that replies are quite unfair to a any free project whatever
> it succeed or not.
>
> 2009/4/5 David Reyes Samblas Martinez <david at tuxbrain.com>:
>> Yes very sad wrong titular "No More OpenMoko Phone " and very
>> discorageus comentaries :(
>>
>> 2009/4/5 robert lazarski <robertlazarski at gmail.com>:
>>> http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/04/228240&art_pos=2
>>>
>>> Not pretty. As someone who has been lurking on this list for 1 1/2
>>> years, patiently waiting to buy a phone but trying to avoid buzz fix
>>> parties if I could help it, I suppose its not surprising. On the
>>> positive side, I'll stick around to see what happens with plan b - if
>>> that is there's anyone left to develop it and its not vapor. I like
>>> the idea of Freerunner, just not its execution. I'd like to surprised
>>> though and see a turn around. And yes, I'll probably buy one that
>>> ships without hardware problems.
>>>
>>> - R
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
>> http://www.tuxbrain.com
>> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
>> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
>> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
>>
>
>
>
> --
> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
> http://www.tuxbrain.com
> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



From atilla.filiz at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 11:24:58 2009
From: atilla.filiz at gmail.com (Atilla Filiz)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 11:24:58 +0200
Subject: WPA2 Enterprice, Was: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
Message-ID: <6016f9080904050224v44c97b6fobde0f934fce559fe@mail.gmail.com>

I'm in TU Eindhoven, we use wpa2 enterprise for wireless security. I used
wpa_supplicant.conf like this:
network={
  ssid="tue-wpa2"
  key_mgmt=WPA-EAP
  eap=PEAP
  identity="my-indentity"
  password="my-secret"
}

and run
wpa_supplicant -ieth0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf

then
dhclient eth0
for getting network configuration

Probably all you need is correct parameters in the conf file.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Jim Ancona <jim at anconafamily.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Stefan Monnier <monnier at iro.umontreal.ca>
> wrote:
> >>> He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying
> >>> that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put
> >>> in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units).
> >> You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G
> >> will get my money as far as I'm concerned :)
> >
> > IIUC there's no hope on the horizon to get a non-closed phone device
> > (whether 2G as in the FR, or any other cell-phone technology), so that
> > the 3G part would be closed is not any different from the closedness of
> > the GSM/GPRS in the FR.
> > I.e. it would suck, but not more than what we already have.
>
> How about wifi? My impression is that the closed nature of the Atheros
> firmware has been a large part of the wifi issues with the GTA02,
> despite Werner's and others' hard work. I still can't connect to my
> work network (WPA2 Enterprise/hidden SSID). Has anyone has gotten WPA2
> Enterprise to work?
>
> Jim
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



-- 
---------------------------------------------------------
Atilla Filiz
Eindhoven University of Technology
Embedded Systems, Master's Programme
--------------------------------------------------------
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From baba_melone at yahoo.de  Sun Apr  5 11:29:12 2009
From: baba_melone at yahoo.de (hab keen oh ne)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:29:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: AW: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <397998.60809.qm@web26308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Good job, really! Thanks to C much faster than pythm, besides Intone seems to have more functions. Nevertheless, I would improve the look, its not really cool compared to any iSoftware. Besides, I have experienced mplayer to be too slow on the Freerunner. I you want to do more than only hear music, or click any button, the music is corrupted. Under Debian Im using xmms with gxmms, and it is much faster. I can even move windows and here music at the same time, without any problems. Just an idea, maybe its not mplayer's but SHR's fault, I dont know, just an idea. 




________________________________
Von: c_c <cchandel at yahoo.com>
An: community at lists.openmoko.org
Gesendet: Sonntag, den 5. April 2009, 08:59:35 Uhr
Betreff: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend


Hi,
  Well, it took a lot longer than I thought - but finally  - here's the alpha release of Intone - a mplayer frontend (for audio files - as of now) in C. Uses about 2% CPU (max) while running - memory goes up depending on your playlist - on my phone (~2500 songs) it uses about 15%.
  All you need to do is download the attached ipk and install it. Intone depends on sqlite3 and libelementary. If you have elementary on your phone upgraded to a level where the elementary test application shows you a demo of sliders and genlists, Intone should run on your phone.
  The recommended way to organise music is to put all the files in a folder (lets say Music), with sub folders named after artists (say Music ->Eagles) and with sub sub folders holding albums (that becomes Music->Eagles->Hell Freezes Over->*.mp3). That way, Intone can correctly organise your music collection into albums. It automatically creates a default playlist containing all songs and individual playlists for each album. I have added features to manage playlists and albums - but there is always scope for improvement.
  Intone uses a sqlite database as a backend for the playlists and albums. That should, hopefully, give flexibility in adding more features later.
  
   Things that don't work as of now :-

1. Feedback. - I haven't been able to add dialogs yet. So - wait a little while for Intone to finish long operations (like adding your music collection for the first time - my 2500 odd songs took about 6 secs - the button remains pressed too)
2. Dialogs for deleting stuff. It's safe - Intone does not delete any files - but it does delete tables(albums and playlists) - and it doesn't yet ask for confirmation.
3. Seek. Dont know how to use the slider for seeking. Any Ideas?
4. DBUS. - Haven't gotten around to learning edbus - so no occupy resouce CPU or pause on incoming calls yet. Will take some more time.
5. Album art and lyrics. - Don't yet know the best way to go about doing this other than downloading art from some retailers etc. Ideas welcome.
6. Toggle View. Not working yet. I intend having 2 more views - Album Art and Lyrics.

  I'm also looking at adding support for the button that the standard handsfree has - as a volume control (3 preselcted levels in rotation) or to go to next song (1 click) and prev song (2 clicks). Any suggestions?

  Since I also have half a podcast manager built (which I couldn't finish in time for the competition) - I'm also looking at adding that support in the future.

  Feedback Required
1. Bug reports.
2. Artwork - Ideas / png's / whatever
3. Elementary help. I have a lot of questions. Here are a few :-
    a) How do I reduce the vert height of 1 entry in the genlist? Right now each line in the list is too high (almost 3 text lines high) - so I get only about 4 song names on the screen. Can I reduce the height to say 1.5 text line - 2 text line?
    b) How do I use the pager with a genlist? In my case the pager works - but it doesn't show the genlist - the buttons all show up though.
    c) Dialogs and progress bars. I know elementary doesn't have them - but can I make/have a simple ty solution for the time being?

Oh! And I'm only adding .oga, .mp3, .m4a and wma files into the albums. Any other types I need to add?

I'll upload the code to intone.googlecode.com soon. 
All feedback welcome. Thanks.
intone_0.20_arm.ipk 
-- 
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Intone-%280.20---alpha-release%29-Elementary-based-mplayer-frontend-tp2587826p2587826.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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From psonek2 at seznam.cz  Sun Apr  5 11:37:37 2009
From: psonek2 at seznam.cz (Radek Polak)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 11:37:37 +0200
Subject: [QT Extended] Git for 2.6.28 kernels
Message-ID: <49D87BE1.9020505@seznam.cz>

Hi,
i have now git tree [1] for QT Extended on 2.6.28 kernels. It has
the same code and patches as the "official" HouYu Li's tree + the
stuff for 2.6.28 kernels.

The plan is to keep sync with HouYu Li's tree. You can do this simply
with:

git pull git://git.karadog.net/qt-extended-improved.git master

When HouYu Li decides that he wants 2.6.28 support he can just pull
the same way from my tree:

git pull git://github.com/radekp/qtextended.git

If someone else wants to do development in his tree, please let us
know so that we can be coordinated and pull patches from others trees.

Cheers

Radek


[1] http://github.com/radekp/qtextended/tree/master



From gunnar.grimnes at dfki.de  Sun Apr  5 11:45:28 2009
From: gunnar.grimnes at dfki.de (Gunnar AAstrand Grimnes)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 11:45:28 +0200
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <20090404234909.GU27350@sygehus.dk>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>	<20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>	<49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com>
	<49D5BC95.7040706@gmail.com>	<49D6FDB6.2090605@openmoko.com>
	<20090404234909.GU27350@sygehus.dk>
Message-ID: <49D87DB8.4060407@dfki.de>

> Upgrade S3C2442B to S3C6410.

Not that it matters, but the N810 seems to achieve really good
suspend/resume behaviour and excellent battery life with a dual core
CPU, i.e. one high-performance core that suspends and another one that
watches for touch-screen events, etc. and wakes up the other one when
something happens. Samsung doesn't make anything like this?

(n810 uses the omap2420:
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=4671&navigationId=11990&templateId=6123)



- Gunnar



From psonek2 at seznam.cz  Sun Apr  5 12:14:05 2009
From: psonek2 at seznam.cz (Radek Polak)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 12:14:05 +0200
Subject: [QtExtended] Latest and greatest
In-Reply-To: <20090402191403.78a3a063@telenet.be>
References: <20090402183934.4c53e78d@telenet.be>
	<20090402191403.78a3a063@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <49D8846D.1070405@seznam.cz>

Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:

> I think I found the suspending thing. In the patch provided by
> Radek (0001-patch-for-2.6.28-kernels.patch), the file
> devices/neo/server/neohardware.cpp gets patched:
> 
> +    else if (QFileInfo("/sys/class/power_supply/usb/online").exists())
>   {
> +         //freerunner kernel > 2.6.28
> +        chargeFile = "/sys/class/power_supply/usb/online";
> +    }
> 
> but this file gives me "0" as result, even when the usb is connected ...
> So it should be (as for neo/server/neobattery.cpp):
> 
> +    else if
>   (QFileInfo("/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status").exists()) {
> +         //freerunner kernel > 2.6.28
> +        chargeFile = "/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status";
> +    }
> 
> This file (/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status) gives the correct
> status ("Charging") when plugged in ...
> Filip, can you confirm this?
> 
> Franky

Hi Franky,
fixed this in my tree [1].

Thanks

Radek

[1]
http://github.com/radekp/qtextended/commit/0df47d3ef72597251187fc535efbc9a0b876d745




From raster at rasterman.com  Sun Apr  5 12:19:31 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 20:19:31 +1000
Subject: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
In-Reply-To: <49D87DB8.4060407@dfki.de>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402170403.GB19228@roque.1407.org>
	<a6af4cea0904021013t6bfcea4ex53bc54e75c985928@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090402173558.GD19228@roque.1407.org>
	<20090403111047.3fec1a36.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D59E4F.6050704@openmoko.com> <49D5BC95.7040706@gmail.com>
	<49D6FDB6.2090605@openmoko.com> <20090404234909.GU27350@sygehus.dk>
	<49D87DB8.4060407@dfki.de>
Message-ID: <20090405201931.6206a4a9.raster@rasterman.com>

On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 11:45:28 +0200 Gunnar AAstrand Grimnes
<gunnar.grimnes at dfki.de> said:

> > Upgrade S3C2442B to S3C6410.
> 
> Not that it matters, but the N810 seems to achieve really good
> suspend/resume behaviour and excellent battery life with a dual core

it never suspends/resumes. it is always runing. it uses an omap feature called
"zero clock" - the cpu literally stops its clock. registers self-refresh (and
ram) like suspend, but on any interrupt (timer, device) it starts running again
really fast - nothing is shut down and brought up like suspend/resume. its more
like a really smart cpufreq that has a 0mhz option. :)

> CPU, i.e. one high-performance core that suspends and another one that
> watches for touch-screen events, etc. and wakes up the other one when
> something happens. Samsung doesn't make anything like this?

no. though you could use a pm for this... but really. "zero clock" does this
effectively.. on 1 core. :)

> (n810 uses the omap2420:
> http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=4671&navigationId=11990&templateId=6123)
> 
> 
> 
> - Gunnar
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 


-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From lukpank at o2.pl  Sun Apr  5 12:32:29 2009
From: lukpank at o2.pl (=?utf-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz?= Pankowski)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 12:32:29 +0200
Subject: on recurring alarm and simulating a down
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<200904040123.19827.joerg@openmoko.org>
	<40cd9ce40904040206s45d99e95n870fef4ee102fd5d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87vdpjbdc2.fsf@ash.lupan-home>

kimaidou <kimaidou at gmail.com> writes:

> One question : is it possible to set a recurring alarm, eg each week
> day at 7:00 ? It would be a great feature

For now there is no way to set a recurring alarm.  To support this I
thought to make rescheduling on: every alarm, ffalarms start (+ changing
alarms), system start.  But will also consider using cron as suggested
by Joerg Reisenweber.  I was actually thinking on a cron-like flexibility
in setting alarms, up to for example "Second Monday each month".

My current plan is

1. Make Debian packages (I have mostly working atd-over-fso package,
needs a bit of polishing, than I will package ffalarms)

2. Next feature release: recurring alarms and attaching text notes to
alarms.

3. Consider rewriting in Vala, may be use some widgets from elementary
(but compatibility with 2008.12 is a must).

But I can not give any time schedule for that.


> 2 question : is it possible to increase the light as the sound to
> simulate a down ?

It would be quite simple to add.  I have never tried this in practice.
To suppose to be effective It will require to: (for example) first
change the background slowly to white and then the backlight to full
light, ie. green digits on a white background.  What do you think?

>
> Thanks anyway, great soft !



From lukpank at o2.pl  Sun Apr  5 12:44:04 2009
From: lukpank at o2.pl (=?utf-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz?= Pankowski)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 12:44:04 +0200
Subject: ffalarms 0.2.1 and atd-over-fso (now works on SHR-testing)
In-Reply-To: <200904040123.19827.joerg@openmoko.org> (Joerg Reisenweber's
	message of "Sat\, 4 Apr 2009 00\:23\:19 +0100")
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<200904040123.19827.joerg@openmoko.org>
Message-ID: <87ab6vbcsr.fsf_-_@ash.lupan-home>

Joerg Reisenweber <joerg at openmoko.org> writes:

> Am Sa  28. M?rz 2009 schrieb ?ukasz Pankowski:
>> Hello
>> 
>> I am the author of Finger friendly alarms [1].  Which I developed for
>> Om 2008.12 up to version 0.2.
>> 
>> I am happy to announce version 0.2.1 of ffalarms which adds support
>> for SHR (tested on SHR testing) -- for this I ported atd to work on
>> top of FSO Framework Time API (called atd-over-fso available from
>> ffalarms download page [2]).  Version 0.2 also fixes Daylight Saving
>> Time problem and adds several minor improvements, see [3] for
>> installation instructions and detailed changes and [2] for downloads.
>> 
>> Please report any problems or possible improvements (those may take
>> long time to come :)).
>> 
>> [1] http://ffalarms.projects.openmoko.org/
>> [2] http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=260
>> [3] http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/shownotes.php?release_id=488
>
> Hey great work! :)
> Have you considered to port cron as well as atd? I know it's a little bit more 
> demanding task, as we might want to modify crontab semantics to distinguish 
> between jobs that wake the phone and those who are handled the "traditional" 
> way. Also FSO might want to see a dbus interface to cron for *setting* new 
> alarms (if they make up their mind to move this functionality from the 
> designated PIMD to cron where it belongs to IMHO)

Hey!

I was actually thinking on a cron-like flexibility in setting recurring
alarms in ffalarms, up to for example "Second Monday each month".  But not for
using cron yet -- it depends wheter cron will nicely fit the job.  One
could also extend atd/atd-over-fso to support cron-like recurring jobs in
/var/spool/at, instead of just timestamps.

But I will have to look closer in to that when deciding how to best
implement recurring alarms in ffalarms.

>
> What's with batch(1) btw?
>
> /jOERG



From liedekef at telenet.be  Sun Apr  5 12:44:57 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 12:44:57 +0200
Subject: [QtExtended] Latest and greatest
In-Reply-To: <49D8846D.1070405@seznam.cz>
References: <20090402183934.4c53e78d@telenet.be>
	<20090402191403.78a3a063@telenet.be> <49D8846D.1070405@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20090405124457.150402fd@telenet.be>

Hi Radek,

I also fixed some logic in detecting plugged in usb cable for
suspending or not.
In the file neohardware.cpp, function NeoHardware::uevent, I changed
the cableconnected calls a bit to use the getcablestatus function. This
has been confirmed to work on different kernels (with or without usb/ac
detection bug):

  if(strcmp(buffer,"change@/class/power_supply/usb")==0)
  {
    qDebug()<<"usb change event";
    cableConnected(getCableStatus());
  }else if(strcmp(buffer,"change@/class/power_supply/ac")==0)
  {
    qDebug()<<"ac change event";
    cableConnected(getCableStatus());

Maybe you can add this to your git as well?

Franky

On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 12:14:05 +0200
Radek Polak <psonek2 at seznam.cz> wrote:

> Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:
> 
> > I think I found the suspending thing. In the patch provided by
> > Radek (0001-patch-for-2.6.28-kernels.patch), the file
> > devices/neo/server/neohardware.cpp gets patched:
> > 
> > +    else if
> > (QFileInfo("/sys/class/power_supply/usb/online").exists()) {
> > +         //freerunner kernel > 2.6.28
> > +        chargeFile = "/sys/class/power_supply/usb/online";
> > +    }
> > 
> > but this file gives me "0" as result, even when the usb is
> > connected ... So it should be (as for neo/server/neobattery.cpp):
> > 
> > +    else if
> >   (QFileInfo("/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status").exists()) {
> > +         //freerunner kernel > 2.6.28
> > +        chargeFile = "/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status";
> > +    }
> > 
> > This file (/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status) gives the correct
> > status ("Charging") when plugged in ...
> > Filip, can you confirm this?
> > 
> > Franky
> 
> Hi Franky,
> fixed this in my tree [1].
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Radek
> 
> [1]
> http://github.com/radekp/qtextended/commit/0df47d3ef72597251187fc535efbc9a0b876d745
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 



From tanuva at googlemail.com  Sun Apr  5 12:45:37 2009
From: tanuva at googlemail.com (Marcel)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 12:45:37 +0200
Subject: [Debian] How to get elementary?
Message-ID: <200904051245.37451.tanuva@gmail.com>

Hello,

Is there a elementary package for Debian yet? I've not yet gotten round 
crosscompiling anything (thanks to python...) and fear adding a selfcompiled 
elementary (in case I get that to work) to an E17 from the Debian repos, 
running into conflicts when that actually contains elementary.

--
Marcel



From liedekef at telenet.be  Sun Apr  5 12:49:57 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 12:49:57 +0200
Subject: [QtExtended] Latest and greatest
In-Reply-To: <49D8846D.1070405@seznam.cz>
References: <20090402183934.4c53e78d@telenet.be>
	<20090402191403.78a3a063@telenet.be> <49D8846D.1070405@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20090405124957.197917fd@telenet.be>

On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 12:14:05 +0200
Radek Polak <psonek2 at seznam.cz> wrote:

> Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:
> 
> > I think I found the suspending thing. In the patch provided by
> > Radek (0001-patch-for-2.6.28-kernels.patch), the file
> > devices/neo/server/neohardware.cpp gets patched:
> > 
> > +    else if
> > (QFileInfo("/sys/class/power_supply/usb/online").exists()) {
> > +         //freerunner kernel > 2.6.28
> > +        chargeFile = "/sys/class/power_supply/usb/online";
> > +    }
> > 
> > but this file gives me "0" as result, even when the usb is
> > connected ... So it should be (as for neo/server/neobattery.cpp):
> > 
> > +    else if
> >   (QFileInfo("/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status").exists()) {
> > +         //freerunner kernel > 2.6.28
> > +        chargeFile = "/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status";
> > +    }
> > 
> > This file (/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status) gives the correct
> > status ("Charging") when plugged in ...
> > Filip, can you confirm this?
> > 
> > Franky
> 
> Hi Franky,
> fixed this in my tree [1].
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Radek

Hi Radek,

also it seems Houyu reinitialized his tree and forgot to commit the
change for ticket 11. Maybe this can be added as well:



From liedekef at telenet.be  Sun Apr  5 12:50:30 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 12:50:30 +0200
Subject: [QtExtended] Latest and greatest
In-Reply-To: <20090405124957.197917fd@telenet.be>
References: <20090402183934.4c53e78d@telenet.be>
	<20090402191403.78a3a063@telenet.be> <49D8846D.1070405@seznam.cz>
	<20090405124957.197917fd@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <20090405125030.34be6d0c@telenet.be>

On Sun, 5 Apr 2009 12:49:57 +0200
Franky Van Liedekerke <liedekef at telenet.be> wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 12:14:05 +0200
> Radek Polak <psonek2 at seznam.cz> wrote:
> 
> > Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:
> > 
> > > I think I found the suspending thing. In the patch provided by
> > > Radek (0001-patch-for-2.6.28-kernels.patch), the file
> > > devices/neo/server/neohardware.cpp gets patched:
> > > 
> > > +    else if
> > > (QFileInfo("/sys/class/power_supply/usb/online").exists()) {
> > > +         //freerunner kernel > 2.6.28
> > > +        chargeFile = "/sys/class/power_supply/usb/online";
> > > +    }
> > > 
> > > but this file gives me "0" as result, even when the usb is
> > > connected ... So it should be (as for neo/server/neobattery.cpp):
> > > 
> > > +    else if
> > >   (QFileInfo("/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status").exists()) {
> > > +         //freerunner kernel > 2.6.28
> > > +        chargeFile = "/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status";
> > > +    }
> > > 
> > > This file (/sys/class/power_supply/battery/status) gives the
> > > correct status ("Charging") when plugged in ...
> > > Filip, can you confirm this?
> > > 
> > > Franky
> > 
> > Hi Franky,
> > fixed this in my tree [1].
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Radek
> 

Hi Radek,
 
also it seems Houyu reinitialized his tree and forgot to commit the
change for ticket 11. Maybe this can be added as well:

http://trac.karadog.net/qt-extended-improved/ticket/11

Franky



From tonyberth at googlemail.com  Sun Apr  5 12:52:59 2009
From: tonyberth at googlemail.com (Tony Berth)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 12:52:59 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <49D792DC.7070908@truebox.co.uk>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D792DC.7070908@truebox.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3494db260904050352q4412e91drdf7f5174a040bc98@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Alastair Johnson <alastair at truebox.co.uk>wrote:

> Tony Berth wrote:
> > - tangoGPS still crashes when trying to change the settings :(
>
> IIRC there's a missing dependency on dbus-x11 which provides the session
> bus that it uses to access the config. Install it then reboot and all
> should be fine.
>
> _______________________________________________
>

sorry but what's the name of that dependency? Can I install it via opkg?

Thanks
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From onen.om at free.fr  Sun Apr  5 12:54:41 2009
From: onen.om at free.fr (Onen)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 12:54:41 +0200
Subject: [openBmap] Version 0.2.0 released of the GSM cell, GPS logger
In-Reply-To: <49D876D5.1060005@free.fr>
References: <49D1325A.6060804@free.fr>	<2f3aa2770904041528x56fc426fp126e68e11a99c099@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D876D5.1060005@free.fr>
Message-ID: <49D88DF1.7000402@free.fr>

Robin Paulson wrote:
 > 2009/4/5 Onen <onen.om at free.fr>:
 >> Did you use the packages directly from the FSO or SHR feeds, or manually
 >> downloaded the ipk?
 >
 > i got it from opkg.org, with the command-line supplied there:
 >
 > opkg install http://www.opkg.org/packages/openbmap-logger_0.2.0_all.ipk
 >
 > btw, i'm using 2008.12 - is that an issue?
 >

Well I think it is. OpenBmap works on top of the freesmartphone.org 
framework (FSO), and if I recall correclty, the 2008.12 distribution is 
not based on it.

 >> The module is provided directly by the package and should be located 
under
 >> [python site-package directory]/openbmap/logger.py
 >
 > sorry, i don't understand what [python site-package directory] means
 >
 > are you saying the path to logger.py is hard-coded in? if it's in a
 > location included in $PATH, does it need to be hard-coded?
 >

The 'site-package' location contains python packages and modules. This 
is in the path when you run python apps, for what I have understood. The 
ipk try to put his package into this place, and expects the directory 
structure given in my last email. This is hardcoded in the package, I 
don't know how I can easily make the ipk to put it dynamically under the 
current python site package path (maybe with pre/post script).
So this is hardcoded in the ipk where to put the logger.py, but this not 
hardcoded in the program that the logger.py should be anywhere specific 
(if found in the path, it works).

Hope I have been clear enough ;-) Let me know if this helps...

Onen

 >> Under FSO 5.1 this is:
 >> /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/openbmap/logger.py
 >>
 >> But the FSO team has moved from older version of python to the 2.6 in
 >> release 5.0, if I recall correctly. Before the path was sth like:
 >> /usr/lib/python2.X/site-packages/openbmap/logger.py
 >>
 >> So if you have downloaded manually the package, and installed it 
under an
 >> image where this is not the path, you would have to move the content of
 >> [...]/site-packages/openbmap/ to the right path of your installation.




From tonyberth at googlemail.com  Sun Apr  5 12:56:04 2009
From: tonyberth at googlemail.com (Tony Berth)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 12:56:04 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstabl;e WSOD!
Message-ID: <3494db260904050356k367c2fd6ie88b0801daa413bc@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Group,

WSOD is back! Using the latest SHR unstable and after selecting 'suspend',
WSOD shows up!

Thanks

Tony
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From baba_melone at yahoo.de  Sun Apr  5 13:11:01 2009
From: baba_melone at yahoo.de (hab keen oh ne)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 11:11:01 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <3494db260904050352q4412e91drdf7f5174a040bc98@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D792DC.7070908@truebox.co.uk>
	<3494db260904050352q4412e91drdf7f5174a040bc98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <987669.67380.qm@web26302.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Another problem occured, thanks to the new kernel. The accelerometer doesnt work anymore, or at least it doesnt for me. I already ran depmod -a, and wlan and usb ethernet are already working again, but the accelerometer doesnt. Can anyone confirm this or tell a way to make the accelerometer work again?




________________________________
Von: Tony Berth <tonyberth at googlemail.com>
An: List for Openmoko community discussion <community at lists.openmoko.org>
Gesendet: Sonntag, den 5. April 2009, 12:52:59 Uhr
Betreff: Re: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!

On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Alastair Johnson <alastair at truebox.co.uk> wrote:

Tony Berth wrote:
> - tangoGPS still crashes when trying to change the settings :(

IIRC there's a missing dependency on dbus-x11 which provides the session
bus that it uses to access the config. Install it then reboot and all
should be fine.


_______________________________________________


sorry but what's the name of that dependency? Can I install it via opkg?

Thanks 


      
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From lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de  Sun Apr  5 13:08:20 2009
From: lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de (Lothar Behrens)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 13:08:20 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>

Hi,

I am mostly reading and sometime writing here. If it was useful or  
useless - I don't know. But anyway.

Let me arse around with some stupid ideas :-)

What is a open phone?

Is it only open source software or is it also open hardware?

If software could be developed virtually at any place and from any  
person, why don't we do the same for
hardware?

Ok I cannot buy expensive equipment to test hardware that I may have  
developed, but I virtually could
develop hardware. But many developers at one subject could spend money  
for a rent to let one of the
team do outstanding tests.

Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?

There are many hobby projects around in the net. These are really not  
at a level as OpenMoko or in
general a device such as a mobile phone, but what is if we could get  
preproduced components such
as the gsm 'plugin board'?

I mean, if I am a crack in developing gsm stuff, but don't like to buy  
a complete phone for it, I probably buy
the gsm module, say, with an interface connectable anyhow to a PC.

What I also think about, is why are there only PDF schematics available?

I have only heared about the dash derivat of openmoko device. Is it  
because there is only a PDF available?

If it is possible to delegate hardware development tasks to the  
comunity why isn't it done yet?

So when also open up the real circuit 'source code' - the real CAD  
files, would it give the real goal - the open mobile phone - a real  
push?

Then if there are some results that have a chance to become a real  
'next' phone, a company like openmoko could
think about producing some prototypes. So the company has a reduced  
cost.

There is one really good electronics project: The internal debug board.

This is only one sample that there are hardware developers out there.  
Give them more food.

My education in 1987 till 1990, was electronics engineering. I do not  
any more practice in that area. So I stuck in some conflict
not to start any electronics projects, because I have the glue the  
project will be a one man show and keep a hobby project. But
if there would be a collerative project I could join, I propably  
would. And may it only getting more practice in laying out PCB boards
whose schematics other developers have created.

If that would be possible, then it would be a real open phone :-)

End of arsing around. Is there a potential to create a hardware  
development comunity?

To avoid that each individual will start its own variant we could  
using a vote system before any direction is done, say wich formfactor is
used, for sample.

Sean: This would propably help continue GTA3 development. The risk to  
produce it, would only invest some inspections of a new design
and doing integration tests. And even this could be donated.

Dont let a great idea die. Delegate hardware development activities if  
possible. We are a comunity.

Lothar

Am 05.04.2009 um 11:18 schrieb Johny Tenfinger:

> It seems like "plan B" doesn't share anything with phones and...  
> Linux ;(
>
> 2009/4/5, David Reyes Samblas Martinez <david at tuxbrain.com>:
>> only add that replies are quite unfair to a any free project whatever
>> it succeed or not.
>>
>> 2009/4/5 David Reyes Samblas Martinez <david at tuxbrain.com>:
>>> Yes very sad wrong titular "No More OpenMoko Phone " and very
>>> discorageus comentaries :(
>>>
>>> 2009/4/5 robert lazarski <robertlazarski at gmail.com>:
>>>> http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/04/228240&art_pos=2
>>>>
>>>> Not pretty. As someone who has been lurking on this list for 1 1/2
>>>> years, patiently waiting to buy a phone but trying to avoid buzz  
>>>> fix
>>>> parties if I could help it, I suppose its not surprising. On the
>>>> positive side, I'll stick around to see what happens with plan b  
>>>> - if
>>>> that is there's anyone left to develop it and its not vapor. I like
>>>> the idea of Freerunner, just not its execution. I'd like to  
>>>> surprised
>>>> though and see a turn around. And yes, I'll probably buy one that
>>>> ships without hardware problems.
>>>>
>>>> - R
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
>>> http://www.tuxbrain.com
>>> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
>>> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
>>> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
>> http://www.tuxbrain.com
>> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
>> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
>> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>

-- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
Lothar Behrens
Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
73252 Lenningen











From cchandel at yahoo.com  Sun Apr  5 13:23:06 2009
From: cchandel at yahoo.com (c_c)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 04:23:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: AW: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer
	frontend
In-Reply-To: <397998.60809.qm@web26308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<397998.60809.qm@web26308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1238930586565-2588293.post@n2.nabble.com>


Hi,
 @ Rasterman - OK - Cleaned up the svn. This should be better. Will handle the delete requests for each window - is that why the program segfaults on exit?
  And, yes, I need to shift the songs db to ~/.intone/

@Robin Paulson - Intone at opkg.org  That should help.

@Johny Tenfinger - I am using a slider that gets updated by a timer to indicate the current position. Seeking using the slider's value doesn't help because that (seeking) function then gets called every sec when I update the slider. Breaks up the sound pretty bad !

@hab keen oh ne - mplayer works fine for me on FSO. I can open other windows and type sms's while songs are playing in the background, comfortably. Try it and let me know if it's slower for you on debian.

So - the svn should be fine now at intone.googlecode.com and the ipk is also available at opkg.org. HTH.
-- 
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Intone-%280.20---alpha-release%29-Elementary-based-mplayer-frontend-tp2587826p2588293.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




From list-openmoko at omoco.de  Sun Apr  5 13:27:43 2009
From: list-openmoko at omoco.de (Sebastian Hammerl)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 13:27:43 +0200
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <49D895AF.2020405@omoco.de>

Hi,

I get the following error when starting with shr testing:

intone: error while loading shared libraries: libecore_input.so.0:
cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

which library do i have to install?

greetings, sebastian

c_c schrieb:
> Hi,
>   Well, it took a lot longer than I thought - but finally  - here's the alpha release of Intone - a mplayer frontend (for audio files - as of now) in C. Uses about 2% CPU (max) while running - memory goes up depending on your playlist - on my phone (~2500 songs) it uses about 15%.
>   All you need to do is download the attached ipk and install it. Intone depends on sqlite3 and libelementary. If you have elementary on your phone upgraded to a level where the elementary test application shows you a demo of sliders and genlists, Intone should run on your phone.
>   The recommended way to organise music is to put all the files in a folder (lets say Music), with sub folders named after artists (say Music ->Eagles) and with sub sub folders holding albums (that becomes Music->Eagles->Hell Freezes Over->*.mp3). That way, Intone can correctly organise your music collection into albums. It automatically creates a default playlist containing all songs and individual playlists for each album. I have added features to manage playlists and albums - but there is always scope for improvement.
>   Intone uses a sqlite database as a backend for the playlists and albums. That should, hopefully, give flexibility in adding more features later.
>   
>    Things that don't work as of now :-
>
> 1. Feedback. - I haven't been able to add dialogs yet. So - wait a little while for Intone to finish long operations (like adding your music collection for the first time - my 2500 odd songs took about 6 secs - the button remains pressed too)
> 2. Dialogs for deleting stuff. It's safe - Intone does not delete any files - but it does delete tables(albums and playlists) - and it doesn't yet ask for confirmation.
> 3. Seek. Dont know how to use the slider for seeking. Any Ideas?
> 4. DBUS. - Haven't gotten around to learning edbus - so no occupy resouce CPU or pause on incoming calls yet. Will take some more time.
> 5. Album art and lyrics. - Don't yet know the best way to go about doing this other than downloading art from some retailers etc. Ideas welcome.
> 6. Toggle View. Not working yet. I intend having 2 more views - Album Art and Lyrics.
>
>   I'm also looking at adding support for the button that the standard handsfree has - as a volume control (3 preselcted levels in rotation) or to go to next song (1 click) and prev song (2 clicks). Any suggestions?
>
>   Since I also have half a podcast manager built (which I couldn't finish in time for the competition) - I'm also looking at adding that support in the future.
>
>   Feedback Required
> 1. Bug reports.
> 2. Artwork - Ideas / png's / whatever
> 3. Elementary help. I have a lot of questions. Here are a few :-
>     a) How do I reduce the vert height of 1 entry in the genlist? Right now each line in the list is too high (almost 3 text lines high) - so I get only about 4 song names on the screen. Can I reduce the height to say 1.5 text line - 2 text line?
>     b) How do I use the pager with a genlist? In my case the pager works - but it doesn't show the genlist - the buttons all show up though.
>     c) Dialogs and progress bars. I know elementary doesn't have them - but can I make/have a simple ty solution for the time being?
>
> Oh! And I'm only adding .oga, .mp3, .m4a and wma files into the albums. Any other types I need to add?
>
> I'll upload the code to intone.googlecode.com soon. 
> All feedback welcome. Thanks.
> intone_0.20_arm.ipk 
>   




From kimaidou at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 13:33:51 2009
From: kimaidou at gmail.com (kimaidou)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 13:33:51 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstabl;e WSOD!
In-Reply-To: <3494db260904050356k367c2fd6ie88b0801daa413bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3494db260904050356k367c2fd6ie88b0801daa413bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <40cd9ce40904050433t78e7839bmc5cd8572629559cd@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry not to know, but what is WSOD please ?
Thx

2009/4/5 Tony Berth <tonyberth at googlemail.com>

> Dear Group,
>
> WSOD is back! Using the latest SHR unstable and after selecting 'suspend',
> WSOD shows up!
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
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From tonyberth at googlemail.com  Sun Apr  5 13:38:24 2009
From: tonyberth at googlemail.com (Tony Berth)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 13:38:24 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstabl;e WSOD!
In-Reply-To: <40cd9ce40904050433t78e7839bmc5cd8572629559cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3494db260904050356k367c2fd6ie88b0801daa413bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<40cd9ce40904050433t78e7839bmc5cd8572629559cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3494db260904050438n3f34663fl8141f07a8dc0ea08@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 1:33 PM, kimaidou <kimaidou at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry not to know, but what is WSOD please ?
> Thx
>
> 2009/4/5 Tony Berth <tonyberth at googlemail.com>
>
>> Dear Group,
>>
>> WSOD is back! Using the latest SHR unstable and after selecting 'suspend',
>> WSOD shows up!
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>

White Screen Of Death!

Thanks

Tony
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From kimaidou at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 13:42:16 2009
From: kimaidou at gmail.com (kimaidou)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 13:42:16 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstabl;e WSOD!
In-Reply-To: <3494db260904050438n3f34663fl8141f07a8dc0ea08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3494db260904050356k367c2fd6ie88b0801daa413bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<40cd9ce40904050433t78e7839bmc5cd8572629559cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<3494db260904050438n3f34663fl8141f07a8dc0ea08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <40cd9ce40904050442uc04b7c3kfd6fc7176073809@mail.gmail.com>

ah, ok ! woooo, bad news

2009/4/5 Tony Berth <tonyberth at googlemail.com>

> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 1:33 PM, kimaidou <kimaidou at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sorry not to know, but what is WSOD please ?
>> Thx
>>
>> 2009/4/5 Tony Berth <tonyberth at googlemail.com>
>>
>>> Dear Group,
>>>
>>> WSOD is back! Using the latest SHR unstable and after selecting
>>> 'suspend', WSOD shows up!
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>
> White Screen Of Death!
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
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From tonyberth at googlemail.com  Sun Apr  5 13:43:04 2009
From: tonyberth at googlemail.com (Tony Berth)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 13:43:04 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <987669.67380.qm@web26302.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D792DC.7070908@truebox.co.uk>
	<3494db260904050352q4412e91drdf7f5174a040bc98@mail.gmail.com>
	<987669.67380.qm@web26302.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3494db260904050443n6a083f2j50fd8460aeca3a21@mail.gmail.com>

didn't run depmod -a but usb ethernet does work in my case! Can't test wlan
though!

Also, for every single settings menu, a separate icon gets created! Thus,
the whole screen fills-up with 'useless' icons!

Thanks

Tony


On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 1:11 PM, hab keen oh ne <baba_melone at yahoo.de> wrote:

> Another problem occured, thanks to the new kernel. The accelerometer doesnt
> work anymore, or at least it doesnt for me. I already ran depmod -a, and
> wlan and usb ethernet are already working again, but the accelerometer
> doesnt. Can anyone confirm this or tell a way to make the accelerometer work
> again?
>
> ------------------------------
> *Von:* Tony Berth <tonyberth at googlemail.com>
> *An:* List for Openmoko community discussion <community at lists.openmoko.org
> >
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, den 5. April 2009, 12:52:59 Uhr
> *Betreff:* Re: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
>
> On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Alastair Johnson <alastair at truebox.co.uk>wrote:
>
>> Tony Berth wrote:
>> > - tangoGPS still crashes when trying to change the settings :(
>>
>> IIRC there's a missing dependency on dbus-x11 which provides the session
>> bus that it uses to access the config. Install it then reboot and all
>> should be fine.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>
> sorry but what's the name of that dependency? Can I install it via opkg?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
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From polz at aufbix.org  Sun Apr  5 13:53:05 2009
From: polz at aufbix.org (polz)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 13:53:05 +0200
Subject: Recommended GTA01 images?
In-Reply-To: <49D82842.6080902@abcom.co.nz>
References: <1238900351.12275.160.camel@phantom.hip>
	<49D82842.6080902@abcom.co.nz>
Message-ID: <200904051353.05699.polz@aufbix.org>

On Sunday 05 April 2009 05:40:50 Ben Wilson wrote:
> try   shr-lite-image-om-gta01.jffs2   from
> http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/om-gta01/
>
How did you get it to fit in the flash, along with gllin?



From kimaidou at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 14:52:25 2009
From: kimaidou at gmail.com (kimaidou)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 14:52:25 +0200
Subject: Transparent keyboard in illume
In-Reply-To: <49D7C335.7040003@om.ksp.sk>
References: <49B41F29.30802@om.ksp.sk> <49B58C91.3020404@strapp.co.uk>
	<49B634B7.8020700@om.ksp.sk>
	<1e3adca60903101421i7898b9e1s468c85b82a25682e@mail.gmail.com>
	<1e3adca60903120006q38f294a3hf553b10ab04cbe41@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B8D5AE.3090409@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904020130l6a068189j6b572c0f9ce15fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D5DF4F.2000908@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904030440u324612c3ua5936e1687b467cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D7C335.7040003@om.ksp.sk>
Message-ID: <40cd9ce40904050552u1118fe9cx782dc7beb60fea92@mail.gmail.com>

Hi again

I tried it . Here is the installation "log":

opkg install xserver-kdrive-glamo xcompmgr qwo e-wm -force-depends
Package xserver-kdrive-glamo
(1:1.3.0.0+gitr9b28d998424c77fbc057dd3a022ccbb122793a52-r3.1) installed in
root is up to date.
Package xcompmgr (1.1.4-r0) installed in root is up to date.
Upgrading qwo on root from 0.4 to 0.4-r0...
Downloading
http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr/ipk/armv4t/qwo_0.4-r0_armv4t.ipk
Installing libimlib2-loaders (2:1.4.2.001+svnr38274-r0) to root...
Downloading
http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr/ipk/armv4t/libimlib2-loaders_1.4.2.001+svnr38274-r0_armv4t.ipk
Installing e-wm (0.16.999.050+svnr38274-r4) to root...
Downloading
http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr/ipk/armv4t/e-wm_0.16.999.050+svnr38274-r4_armv4t.ipk
Multiple replacers for e-wm-sysactions, using first one
(e-wm-sysactions-shr)
Multiple replacers for e-wm-sysactions, using first one
(e-wm-sysactions-shr)
Installing e-wm-menu (0.16.999.050+svnr38274-r4) to root...
Downloading
http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr/ipk/all/e-wm-menu_0.16.999.050+svnr38274-r4_all.ipk
Configuring e-wm
update-alternatives: Linking //usr/bin/x-window-manager to
/usr/bin/enlightenment_start.oe
Configuring e-wm-menu
Collected errors:
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/tiff.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/bz2.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/bmp.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/png.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/xpm.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/pnm.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/tga.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/lbm.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/jpeg.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/argb.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/zlib.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Warning: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for e-wm:
     *  e-wm-utils *

Then I restarted, and lead the xcom.... script. It runs ok (no errors). But
when I "open" the keyboard, it is not transparent, and the circles from
"u..." clockwise or the way back just change the size. Have I really
installed "your" qwo package ? How can I check please

Thanks again
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From liedekef at telenet.be  Sun Apr  5 15:03:29 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 15:03:29 +0200
Subject: qt-extended-improved unpredictive keyboard
In-Reply-To: <60567dcc0904030320k7e104c4u2df1a2c230ee2ea3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49D2AAF2.4070109@lilik.it>
	<60567dcc0904010245s3277faf0u70565ad5cf44c284@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D3F0BF.5000104@lilik.it> <20090402212447.7528a64d@telenet.be>
	<49D5DA7D.900@lilik.it>
	<60567dcc0904030320k7e104c4u2df1a2c230ee2ea3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090405150329.340b3ea8@telenet.be>

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:20:19 +0200
Franky Van Liedekerke <liedekef at telenet.be> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 11:44 AM, leonardo maccari <leonardo at lilik.it>
> wrote:
> 
> > Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:
> > > On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 00:54:55 +0200
> >
> >
> > > This is a nice keyboard, much easier/faster to use than the
> > > predictive one! The look is not all that, but functionality-wise
> > > it is great!
> >
> > Nice to hear this.
> > One question, before this layout I was using a layout made of 10
> > columns and 3 rows that let me have an querty keyboard with the
> > same picks as a desktop one. But 10 columns is too much to have the
> > keyboard work properly so I changed it to 6x5 but now I have a
> > weird layout.. What is the most qwerty-similar layout for a 6x5
> > keyboard?
> >
> 
> hmm ... maybe try 8*3 layout, and set the 2 remaining chars and stuff
> on a forth line?
> 
> While I'm at it: the keyboard misses the possibility to enter accents
> in chars. So maybe add a third special button for symbols (the
> spacebar can be made a bit smaller to accomodate for this, where most
> of these can be located then.
> 
> Franky

Hi,

I just saw this as well: no "enter" on the keyboard layout?

Franky



From previdi.roberto at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 15:07:10 2009
From: previdi.roberto at gmail.com (Previdi Roberto)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 15:07:10 +0200
Subject: shr screen lock
Message-ID: <aee831ab0904050607w44d81c76wc29b8bf11e06fe4@mail.gmail.com>

Hello list. I would like to know if there is a way to change the image
showed when i press the aux button to lock screen in SHR. Actually it
prevents me both pressing something on the screen (good thing) and
seeing what happens in the center of the screen (bad thing).
I would like to use a little image, maybe on the bottom of the screen,
but i don't know wich is the package to look at..

roby



From leonardo at lilik.it  Sun Apr  5 15:13:16 2009
From: leonardo at lilik.it (leonardo at lilik.it)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:13:16 +0200
Subject: qt-extended-improved unpredictive keyboard
In-Reply-To: <20090405150329.340b3ea8@telenet.be>
References: <49D2AAF2.4070109@lilik.it>	<60567dcc0904010245s3277faf0u70565ad5cf44c284@mail.gmail.com>	<49D3F0BF.5000104@lilik.it>
	<20090402212447.7528a64d@telenet.be>	<49D5DA7D.900@lilik.it>	<60567dcc0904030320k7e104c4u2df1a2c230ee2ea3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090405150329.340b3ea8@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <49D8AE6C.6020908@lilik.it>


> I just saw this as well: no "enter" on the keyboard layout?
> 

I'll check this out as soon as I have time...
summarizing:
 - just noticed I have a double 'u' :-)
 - accents missing (don't really know how to do it..)
 - enter missing (better stay on switched keyboard)

ciao,
leonardo.

-- 
http://leonardo.lilik.it
Key fingerprint = 2C20 A587 05AC 42E5 1292  D0D4 3EED CFB5 52FD AD1E



From leonardo at lilik.it  Sun Apr  5 15:20:06 2009
From: leonardo at lilik.it (leonardo at lilik.it)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:20:06 +0200
Subject: [QtExtended] does anybody use matchbox keyboard?
Message-ID: <49D8B006.70305@lilik.it>

Hi all,
Does anybody use the matchbox keyboard on Qtextended? (the one with grey
little letters unusable with your fingers?).
I'm working on a different layout, finger-usable, and i will do a patch
for Qtextended, the question is if in my patch I can modify matchbox
keyboard or I should add a new keyboard.

ciao,
leonardo.
-- 
http://leonardo.lilik.it
Key fingerprint = 2C20 A587 05AC 42E5 1292  D0D4 3EED CFB5 52FD AD1E



From seba.dos1 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 15:34:04 2009
From: seba.dos1 at gmail.com (Johny Tenfinger)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 15:34:04 +0200
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <49D895AF.2020405@omoco.de>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<49D895AF.2020405@omoco.de>
Message-ID: <c30e08170904050634w441b2ea4n3bbf7c20cc97282b@mail.gmail.com>

> which library do i have to install?

Probably opkg upgrade or shr-unstable ;)

On 4/5/09, Sebastian Hammerl <list-openmoko at omoco.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I get the following error when starting with shr testing:
>
> intone: error while loading shared libraries: libecore_input.so.0:
> cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
>
> which library do i have to install?
>
> greetings, sebastian
>
> c_c schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>   Well, it took a lot longer than I thought - but finally  - here's the
>> alpha release of Intone - a mplayer frontend (for audio files - as of now)
>> in C. Uses about 2% CPU (max) while running - memory goes up depending on
>> your playlist - on my phone (~2500 songs) it uses about 15%.
>>   All you need to do is download the attached ipk and install it. Intone
>> depends on sqlite3 and libelementary. If you have elementary on your phone
>> upgraded to a level where the elementary test application shows you a demo
>> of sliders and genlists, Intone should run on your phone.
>>   The recommended way to organise music is to put all the files in a
>> folder (lets say Music), with sub folders named after artists (say Music
>> ->Eagles) and with sub sub folders holding albums (that becomes
>> Music->Eagles->Hell Freezes Over->*.mp3). That way, Intone can correctly
>> organise your music collection into albums. It automatically creates a
>> default playlist containing all songs and individual playlists for each
>> album. I have added features to manage playlists and albums - but there is
>> always scope for improvement.
>>   Intone uses a sqlite database as a backend for the playlists and albums.
>> That should, hopefully, give flexibility in adding more features later.
>>
>>    Things that don't work as of now :-
>>
>> 1. Feedback. - I haven't been able to add dialogs yet. So - wait a little
>> while for Intone to finish long operations (like adding your music
>> collection for the first time - my 2500 odd songs took about 6 secs - the
>> button remains pressed too)
>> 2. Dialogs for deleting stuff. It's safe - Intone does not delete any
>> files - but it does delete tables(albums and playlists) - and it doesn't
>> yet ask for confirmation.
>> 3. Seek. Dont know how to use the slider for seeking. Any Ideas?
>> 4. DBUS. - Haven't gotten around to learning edbus - so no occupy resouce
>> CPU or pause on incoming calls yet. Will take some more time.
>> 5. Album art and lyrics. - Don't yet know the best way to go about doing
>> this other than downloading art from some retailers etc. Ideas welcome.
>> 6. Toggle View. Not working yet. I intend having 2 more views - Album Art
>> and Lyrics.
>>
>>   I'm also looking at adding support for the button that the standard
>> handsfree has - as a volume control (3 preselcted levels in rotation) or
>> to go to next song (1 click) and prev song (2 clicks). Any suggestions?
>>
>>   Since I also have half a podcast manager built (which I couldn't finish
>> in time for the competition) - I'm also looking at adding that support in
>> the future.
>>
>>   Feedback Required
>> 1. Bug reports.
>> 2. Artwork - Ideas / png's / whatever
>> 3. Elementary help. I have a lot of questions. Here are a few :-
>>     a) How do I reduce the vert height of 1 entry in the genlist? Right
>> now each line in the list is too high (almost 3 text lines high) - so I
>> get only about 4 song names on the screen. Can I reduce the height to say
>> 1.5 text line - 2 text line?
>>     b) How do I use the pager with a genlist? In my case the pager works -
>> but it doesn't show the genlist - the buttons all show up though.
>>     c) Dialogs and progress bars. I know elementary doesn't have them -
>> but can I make/have a simple ty solution for the time being?
>>
>> Oh! And I'm only adding .oga, .mp3, .m4a and wma files into the albums.
>> Any other types I need to add?
>>
>> I'll upload the code to intone.googlecode.com soon.
>> All feedback welcome. Thanks.
>> intone_0.20_arm.ipk
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



From sebbil at gmx.de  Sun Apr  5 15:44:33 2009
From: sebbil at gmx.de (Sebastian Billaudelle)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:44:33 +0200
Subject: AW: Multicast over USB?
In-Reply-To: <496334.55403.qm@web26305.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <908528.25596.qm@web26308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<1238912771.32293.1.camel@thinky>
	<496334.55403.qm@web26305.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1238939074.13350.1.camel@thinky>

Hm. Would you please paste the code somewhere?

Did you bind it to the right interface(s)?

Am Sonntag, den 05.04.2009, 09:17 +0000 schrieb hab keen oh ne:
> Corrected Multivast to Multicast^^
> Well, Multicast seems to be running on the usb network devices
> Here the output on the FR:
> 
> usb0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr BE:23:B2:E6:9C:21
>           inet addr:192.168.0.202  Bcast:192.168.0.255
> Mask:255.255.255.0
>           inet6 addr: fe80::bc23:b2ff:fee6:9c21/64 Scope:Link
>           UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>           RX packets:137 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>           TX packets:118 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>           collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
>           RX bytes:16976 (16.5 KiB)  TX bytes:14411 (14.0 KiB)
> 
> and here on my host(unfortunately in German):
> 
> usb0      Link encap:Ethernet  Hardware Adresse 92:3C:A3:BC:33:8B  
>           inet Adresse:192.168.0.200  Bcast:192.168.0.255
> Maske:255.255.255.0
>           inet6 Adresse: fe80::903c:a3ff:febc:338b/64
> G?ltigkeitsbereich:Verbindung
>           UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>           RX packets:78 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>           TX packets:90 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>           Kollisionen:0 Sendewarteschlangenl?nge:1000
>           RX bytes:8681 (8.4 KiB)  TX bytes:13249 (12.9 KiB)
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Von: Sebastian Billaudelle <sebbil at gmx.de>
> An: List for Openmoko community discussion
> <community at lists.openmoko.org>
> Gesendet: Sonntag, den 5. April 2009, 08:26:10 Uhr
> Betreff: Re: Multivast over USB?
> 
> Am Samstag, den 04.04.2009, 16:06 +0000 schrieb hab keen oh ne:
> > Hi,
> > Im currently working with multicast for my internship at a
> university.
> 
> Sounds interesting:)
> 
> > A universitie's guy said, that probably Multicast isnt supported
> over
> > USB, is that right?
> 
> Would you please attach the output of "ifconfig" on your Neo and PC?
> On some interfaces MCast is disabled by default. You can change this
> by
> adding a route.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sebastian
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community




From sebbil at gmx.de  Sun Apr  5 15:46:26 2009
From: sebbil at gmx.de (Sebastian Billaudelle)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:46:26 +0200
Subject: shr screen lock
In-Reply-To: <aee831ab0904050607w44d81c76wc29b8bf11e06fe4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aee831ab0904050607w44d81c76wc29b8bf11e06fe4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1238939187.13350.2.camel@thinky>

Am Sonntag, den 05.04.2009, 15:07 +0200 schrieb Previdi Roberto:
> Hello list. I would like to know if there is a way to change the image
> showed when i press the aux button to lock screen in SHR. Actually it
> prevents me both pressing something on the screen (good thing) and
> seeing what happens in the center of the screen (bad thing).
> I would like to use a little image, maybe on the bottom of the screen,
> but i don't know wich is the package to look at..

You can find this in the theme files of Illume. You need to decompile
them...




From baba_melone at yahoo.de  Sun Apr  5 15:50:30 2009
From: baba_melone at yahoo.de (hab keen oh ne)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 13:50:30 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: AW: AW: Multicast over USB?
In-Reply-To: <1238939074.13350.1.camel@thinky>
References: <908528.25596.qm@web26308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<1238912771.32293.1.camel@thinky>
	<496334.55403.qm@web26305.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<1238939074.13350.1.camel@thinky>
Message-ID: <818438.23994.qm@web26306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Over LAN it works. I bind the socket to all the interfaces. The relevant code is attached. Bot_config is the client, that wants to join the Multicast group of the server. As I said, this usually works in a not routed network, like via WLAN, its just USB that sucks.




________________________________
Von: Sebastian Billaudelle <sebbil at gmx.de>
An: List for Openmoko community discussion <community at lists.openmoko.org>
Gesendet: Sonntag, den 5. April 2009, 15:44:33 Uhr
Betreff: Re: AW: Multicast over USB?

Hm. Would you please paste the code somewhere?

Did you bind it to the right interface(s)?

Am Sonntag, den 05.04.2009, 09:17 +0000 schrieb hab keen oh ne:
> Corrected Multivast to Multicast^^
> Well, Multicast seems to be running on the usb network devices
> Here the output on the FR:
> 
> usb0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr BE:23:B2:E6:9C:21
>           inet addr:192.168.0.202  Bcast:192.168.0.255
> Mask:255.255.255.0
>           inet6 addr: fe80::bc23:b2ff:fee6:9c21/64 Scope:Link
>           UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>           RX packets:137 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>           TX packets:118 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>           collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
>           RX bytes:16976 (16.5 KiB)  TX bytes:14411 (14.0 KiB)
> 
> and here on my host(unfortunately in German):
> 
> usb0      Link encap:Ethernet  Hardware Adresse 92:3C:A3:BC:33:8B  
>           inet Adresse:192.168.0.200  Bcast:192.168.0.255
> Maske:255.255.255.0
>           inet6 Adresse: fe80::903c:a3ff:febc:338b/64
> G?ltigkeitsbereich:Verbindung
>           UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>           RX packets:78 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>           TX packets:90 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>           Kollisionen:0 Sendewarteschlangenl?nge:1000
>           RX bytes:8681 (8.4 KiB)  TX bytes:13249 (12.9 KiB)
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Von: Sebastian Billaudelle <sebbil at gmx.de>
> An: List for Openmoko community discussion
> <community at lists.openmoko.org>
> Gesendet: Sonntag, den 5. April 2009, 08:26:10 Uhr
> Betreff: Re: Multivast over USB?
> 
> Am Samstag, den 04.04.2009, 16:06 +0000 schrieb hab keen oh ne:
> > Hi,
> > Im currently working with multicast for my internship at a
> university.
> 
> Sounds interesting:)
> 
> > A universitie's guy said, that probably Multicast isnt supported
> over
> > USB, is that right?
> 
> Would you please attach the output of "ifconfig" on your Neo and PC?
> On some interfaces MCast is disabled by default. You can change this
> by
> adding a route.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sebastian
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


_______________________________________________
Openmoko community mailing list
community at lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



      
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From seba.dos1 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 16:08:10 2009
From: seba.dos1 at gmail.com (Johny Tenfinger)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 16:08:10 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <3494db260904050443n6a083f2j50fd8460aeca3a21@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D792DC.7070908@truebox.co.uk>
	<3494db260904050352q4412e91drdf7f5174a040bc98@mail.gmail.com>
	<987669.67380.qm@web26302.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<3494db260904050443n6a083f2j50fd8460aeca3a21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c30e08170904050708m159d7e9bm6287f897fc5e5f41@mail.gmail.com>

Delete menu-freesmartphone and install e-wm-menu. If that doesn't
work, remove shr-settings-addons-illume package.

On 4/5/09, Tony Berth <tonyberth at googlemail.com> wrote:
> didn't run depmod -a but usb ethernet does work in my case! Can't test wlan
> though!
>
> Also, for every single settings menu, a separate icon gets created! Thus,
> the whole screen fills-up with 'useless' icons!
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 1:11 PM, hab keen oh ne <baba_melone at yahoo.de> wrote:
>
>> Another problem occured, thanks to the new kernel. The accelerometer
>> doesnt
>> work anymore, or at least it doesnt for me. I already ran depmod -a, and
>> wlan and usb ethernet are already working again, but the accelerometer
>> doesnt. Can anyone confirm this or tell a way to make the accelerometer
>> work
>> again?
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *Von:* Tony Berth <tonyberth at googlemail.com>
>> *An:* List for Openmoko community discussion <community at lists.openmoko.org
>> >
>> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, den 5. April 2009, 12:52:59 Uhr
>> *Betreff:* Re: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Alastair Johnson
>> <alastair at truebox.co.uk>wrote:
>>
>>> Tony Berth wrote:
>>> > - tangoGPS still crashes when trying to change the settings :(
>>>
>>> IIRC there's a missing dependency on dbus-x11 which provides the session
>>> bus that it uses to access the config. Install it then reboot and all
>>> should be fine.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>
>> sorry but what's the name of that dependency? Can I install it via opkg?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>



From tonyberth at googlemail.com  Sun Apr  5 16:42:27 2009
From: tonyberth at googlemail.com (Tony Berth)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 16:42:27 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <c30e08170904050708m159d7e9bm6287f897fc5e5f41@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D792DC.7070908@truebox.co.uk>
	<3494db260904050352q4412e91drdf7f5174a040bc98@mail.gmail.com>
	<987669.67380.qm@web26302.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<3494db260904050443n6a083f2j50fd8460aeca3a21@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050708m159d7e9bm6287f897fc5e5f41@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3494db260904050742t3cd0c0a2mcb166bdd6c77caab@mail.gmail.com>

did remove 'menu-freesmartphone' with -force-depends cause it was a
dependency on 'e-wm' and installed 'e-wm-menu'. After rebooting I get no
icons at all!

Thanks

Tony

On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Johny Tenfinger <seba.dos1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Delete menu-freesmartphone and install e-wm-menu. If that doesn't
> work, remove shr-settings-addons-illume package.
>
> On 4/5/09, Tony Berth <tonyberth at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > didn't run depmod -a but usb ethernet does work in my case! Can't test
> wlan
> > though!
> >
> > Also, for every single settings menu, a separate icon gets created! Thus,
> > the whole screen fills-up with 'useless' icons!
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 1:11 PM, hab keen oh ne <baba_melone at yahoo.de>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Another problem occured, thanks to the new kernel. The accelerometer
> >> doesnt
> >> work anymore, or at least it doesnt for me. I already ran depmod -a, and
> >> wlan and usb ethernet are already working again, but the accelerometer
> >> doesnt. Can anyone confirm this or tell a way to make the accelerometer
> >> work
> >> again?
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >> *Von:* Tony Berth <tonyberth at googlemail.com>
> >> *An:* List for Openmoko community discussion <
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> >> >
> >> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, den 5. April 2009, 12:52:59 Uhr
> >> *Betreff:* Re: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
> >>
> >> On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Alastair Johnson
> >> <alastair at truebox.co.uk>wrote:
> >>
> >>> Tony Berth wrote:
> >>> > - tangoGPS still crashes when trying to change the settings :(
> >>>
> >>> IIRC there's a missing dependency on dbus-x11 which provides the
> session
> >>> bus that it uses to access the config. Install it then reboot and all
> >>> should be fine.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>
> >> sorry but what's the name of that dependency? Can I install it via opkg?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
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From hns at computer.org  Sun Apr  5 17:20:25 2009
From: hns at computer.org (Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 17:20:25 +0200
Subject: Munich April Stammtisch
Message-ID: <B157B613-9F62-4721-BE0E-D007FB2EF9C6@computer.org>

Hi,
to all Freerunner owners living or working in or near Munich, Germany:

Once again we plan a "Stammtisch" to take place at

19 Uhr, Die Wildsau - Balanstrasse 121 - 81549 M?nchen - http://www.die-wildsau.de

Please vote for your preferred date through:

http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1107&p=11622&hilit=muenchen#p11625
(http://www.doodle.com/ezrymw66khm4xvzb)

Details from the last "Stammtisch" (in German):

http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=660&start=45&hilit=stammtisch

This time there will be again many topics: GTA03, Munich Freerunner  
Workshop, Meet each other in person, etc.

See you all,
Nikolaus


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mobile Office Solutions
by Golden Delicious Computers GmbH&Co. KG
Buchenstr. 3
D-82041 Oberhaching
+49-89-54290367
http://www.handheld-linux.com

AG M?nchen, HRA 89571
VAT DE253626266
Komplement?r:
Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH
Oberhaching, AG M?nchen, HRB 16602
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller

Digital Tools for Independent People
--------------------------------------------------------------------








From 10equals2 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 17:50:12 2009
From: 10equals2 at gmail.com (Young)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 10:50:12 -0500
Subject: Buying a Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <49D7ED4C.7000702@openmoko.com>
References: <49AC7C33.50000@gmx.at> <goitfh$h5u$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<49ADC6C7.9030701@openmoko.com>
	<bff0f0570904031000r788cdf70qa4e222c80ac8ddfe@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D7D21A.6080001@openmoko.com>
	<bff0f0570904041515j5641358dmd3d786710b1a0c95@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D7ED4C.7000702@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <20090405105012.279d27b8@young-crunchbang>

I have been following these lists for a while now. I've looked up on
the wiki, but I still have a few questions.

1. The phone selling for 299 on the main site, do es it have the bug
fix? or might I still have that problem?

2. with the recent announcements, I am unsure whether I want to
purchase one. I have no problem with having bugs, heck, I always manage
to screw up my computer by playing with things I probably shouldn't
anyways. the question is, what is the community's suggestion? those who
already have freerunners, would y'all suggest I get one, if only to
play with it and not use it as a phone?  It'd be worth it just for the
wifi. If the wifi is working right.

thanks



From dylan.semler at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 18:10:20 2009
From: dylan.semler at gmail.com (Dylan Semler)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 11:10:20 -0500
Subject: Wifi problems, WPA/WEP differences (was: Re: [SHR] from debian to 
	shr ; -))
In-Reply-To: <c30e08170904050213i16450b07ic64548f18309fbc7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18db98c80903300157n37155b32g2d767c2ff5bad90d@mail.gmail.com>
	<18db98c80904011225t575064f8kd158a1ed0f502a12@mail.gmail.com>
	<18db98c80904020642m2c3a6b0eq8a21ada09e0bcbec@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904021635.49549.mok@mnet-online.de>
	<18db98c80904020915p76dc8430o4426e0e18eca79d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D73BE0.1020506@cmartins.nl>
	<18db98c80904040725u70d788dbob7028a29cc84e070@mail.gmail.com>
	<1238855570.24587.40.camel@toaster-desktop>
	<m2hc13fsne.fsf_-_@home.pavel.comp>
	<c30e08170904050213i16450b07ic64548f18309fbc7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <be852c190904050910p4982e914ub902fb028f4ef0a0@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 4:13 AM, Johny Tenfinger <seba.dos1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> My AP worked well with .24 kernel. With .28 and .29 it doesn't (I've
> connected once for about month)
>
>
I'm in this boat as well

Dylan
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From joerg at openmoko.org  Sun Apr  5 18:14:03 2009
From: joerg at openmoko.org (Joerg Reisenweber)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 17:14:03 +0100
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
Message-ID: <200904051814.04164.joerg@openmoko.org>

Am So  5. April 2009 schrieb Lothar Behrens:
> Hi,
> 
> I am mostly reading and sometime writing here. If it was useful or  
> useless - I don't know. But anyway.
> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
[...]
Hi Lothar,
nope this won't fly. It's basically the sw pov approach to hw development 
Steve mentioned in one of his current posts.
Developing hw is more than creating a good looking schematics in Eagle, and 
tasks like layout are partially done by autorouter and the other half is a 
*close* *interactive* process between the layout gal, the EE guys, the RF 
guys, the ME dept, sourcing dept etc etc.
IIRC OM had some really nasty experience when outsourcing some layout task. 
Just because the layout didn't understand exactly what EE had in mind when 
creating the schem, and EE didn't closely check the work of layouters.

for your Q about project files instead of pdf: OM is making money by selling 
hw, so there's not much sense in publishing data that doesn't help EE guys in 
community to understand the hw but instead is only needed for production 
purposes. In the end you can't do anything on a single-device basis with 
layout or schem proj data you couldn't do without it. Or are you the guy 
who's etching 8-layer at home and soldering uBGA by hand? ;-) You can't patch 
a ready-done 8layer PCB, no matter what your document files are (sw POV on 
hw!). And no company is going to invest in producing some dozen proto PCB 
done by "anonymous" community guys, without checking each and every trace and 
footprint again what in the end for sure is more work than doing it inhouse 
from scratch.
Other companies tend to keep schematics closed to protect their IP, so we at 
OM at least don't want to give asian cloners a kickstart without adding *any* 
benefit for our customers.

best regards
jOERG
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From gunnar.grimnes at dfki.de  Sun Apr  5 18:45:02 2009
From: gunnar.grimnes at dfki.de (Gunnar AAstrand Grimnes)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:45:02 +0200
Subject: Buying a Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <20090405105012.279d27b8@young-crunchbang>
References: <49AC7C33.50000@gmx.at>
	<goitfh$h5u$1@ger.gmane.org>	<49ADC6C7.9030701@openmoko.com>	<bff0f0570904031000r788cdf70qa4e222c80ac8ddfe@mail.gmail.com>	<49D7D21A.6080001@openmoko.com>	<bff0f0570904041515j5641358dmd3d786710b1a0c95@mail.gmail.com>	<49D7ED4C.7000702@openmoko.com>
	<20090405105012.279d27b8@young-crunchbang>
Message-ID: <49D8E00E.9040600@dfki.de>

> 1. The phone selling for 299 on the main site, do es it have the bug
> fix? or might I still have that problem?

>From Steve recent email about getting the v7 through production I guess not.

> 
> 2. the question is, what is the community's suggestion? those who
> already have freerunners, would y'all suggest I get one, if only to
> play with it and not use it as a phone?  It'd be worth it just for the
> wifi. If the wifi is working right.

I'm going to be blunt here: No. If you do not want a phone but a cool
linux gadget with wifi, get a nokia n810. Afaik it can do everything the
openmoko does apart from GSM.

The openmoko has too many problems that are tricky to solve normally,
and even trickier without a real company supporting them. For instance,
from the recent "graphics performance" thread it appears the graphical
performance of everything will remain sluggish forever. The suspend
still seems to cause problems: missing sound, slow resume, GSM missing,
etc.

I wont sell my freerunner "because I don't have time to play with it"
just yet - but I knowing what I know today I probably would not buy one
now.

Sorry openmoko inc :(

- Gunnar



From fernando at cmartins.nl  Sun Apr  5 19:06:27 2009
From: fernando at cmartins.nl (Fernando Martins)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:06:27 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D8E513.6080207@cmartins.nl>

David Reyes Samblas Martinez wrote:
> only add that replies are quite unfair to a any free project whatever
> it succeed or not.
>
> 2009/4/5 David Reyes Samblas Martinez <david at tuxbrain.com>:
>   
>> Yes very sad wrong titular "No More OpenMoko Phone " and very
>> discorageus comentaries :(
>>     
>
Listen, it's just one of those slashdot posts based on half-truths. 
Lamenting it does not help. Just address the truths in there and take 
the best out of it. Even bad publicity can be good. Make it play in your 
favor. This slashdot article could be a good opportunity to:

1) identify plain truths, plain falsities, half-truths/lies. Distinguish 
between technical (FR) and organisational issues (OM/community). This 
can be done by the community using a wiki page.

2) Acknowledge the negative organisational facts (I guess already done 
by OM). Fix it by:

a) providing reassurance by building on the achievements and positive 
facts;

b) providing an action plan dealing with organisational AND marketing 
aspects;

c) ask the community for feedback on the plan (being done?) and even ask 
for help with organisational and market aspects (the open project 
doesn't have to stop at the software aspects).

3) Provide a plan to address the technical aspects involving the 
community (being done?). Typically everyone wants to work on their own 
itches, but maybe there is room for a bit more coordination, e.g. by 
using cofundos to focus on specific areas that could help OM deliver the 
promises of an open and implicitly working phone.


Fernando




From joerg at openmoko.org  Sun Apr  5 19:14:02 2009
From: joerg at openmoko.org (Joerg Reisenweber)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 18:14:02 +0100
Subject: Buying a Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <49D8E00E.9040600@dfki.de>
References: <49AC7C33.50000@gmx.at> <20090405105012.279d27b8@young-crunchbang>
	<49D8E00E.9040600@dfki.de>
Message-ID: <200904051914.03220.joerg@openmoko.org>

Am So  5. April 2009 schrieb Gunnar AAstrand Grimnes:
> > 1. The phone selling for 299 on the main site, do es it have the bug
> > fix? or might I still have that problem?
> 
> From Steve recent email about getting the v7 through production I guess not.
Steve also mentioned as many as possible on stock A6 getting fixed at fab.
So if I got that right we are shipping with buzzfix right now.
/j

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From mickey at vanille-media.de  Sun Apr  5 19:39:59 2009
From: mickey at vanille-media.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 19:39:59 +0200
Subject: Buying a Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <20090405105012.279d27b8@young-crunchbang>
References: <49AC7C33.50000@gmx.at> <49D7ED4C.7000702@openmoko.com>
	<20090405105012.279d27b8@young-crunchbang>
Message-ID: <200904051939.59085.mickey@vanille-media.de>

On Sunday 05 April 2009 17:50:12 Young wrote:
> I have been following these lists for a while now. I've looked up on
> the wiki, but I still have a few questions.
>
> 1. The phone selling for 299 on the main site, do es it have the bug
> fix? or might I still have that problem?
>
> 2. with the recent announcements, I am unsure whether I want to
> purchase one. I have no problem with having bugs, heck, I always manage
> to screw up my computer by playing with things I probably shouldn't
> anyways. the question is, what is the community's suggestion? those who
> already have freerunners, would y'all suggest I get one, if only to
> play with it and not use it as a phone?  It'd be worth it just for the
> wifi. If the wifi is working right.

Are you interested in a day-to-day phone that just happens runs Linux since 
you also run firefox instead of Internet Explorer? If so, don't buy it.

Are you interested in developing software for mobile devices? Or want to see 
what creative people can do with free software and hardware platforms? If so, 
buy it!

:M:




From lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de  Sun Apr  5 19:39:58 2009
From: lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de (Lothar Behrens)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 19:39:58 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <200904051814.04164.joerg@openmoko.org>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<200904051814.04164.joerg@openmoko.org>
Message-ID: <5B5468C1-7875-4012-8BA0-1BE89B24DB36@lollisoft.de>


Am 05.04.2009 um 18:14 schrieb Joerg Reisenweber:

> Am So  5. April 2009 schrieb Lothar Behrens:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am mostly reading and sometime writing here. If it was useful or
>> useless - I don't know. But anyway.
>> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
> [...]
> Hi Lothar,
> nope this won't fly. It's basically the sw pov approach to hw  
> development
> Steve mentioned in one of his current posts.

I may read his post...

>
> Developing hw is more than creating a good looking schematics in  
> Eagle, and
> tasks like layout are partially done by autorouter and the other  
> half is a
> *close* *interactive* process between the layout gal, the EE guys,  
> the RF
> guys, the ME dept, sourcing dept etc etc.

It is indeed difficult. But otoh are many hw projects (http://opencores.org/ 
  or http://opencollector.org/ for sample),
or at least hw related.

>
> IIRC OM had some really nasty experience when outsourcing some  
> layout task.
> Just because the layout didn't understand exactly what EE had in  
> mind when
> creating the schem, and EE didn't closely check the work of layouters.
>

I don't speak about outsourcing. I have made similar experiences with  
outsourcing:

An EE project (motor control) should be outsourced, but the schematics  
were sent by faximile!
The result was about writing an application to compare the netlists to  
compare the then distinct
projects (different wire names and the like).

So don't split any EE project or work with different versions without  
a CVS or SVN!

But giving development boards or mobile phone development kits would  
be an option to
broaden the idea behind open mobile phone. Say, a GSM kit could be  
used for the carPC hobby
engineer. And there are really GSM modules sold by other companies. (http://www.gsm-modem.de/ 
)

Then you have the control about your pcb design, but propably broaden  
your product palette.

Not all developers need a complete telephone. But you could indeed get  
more value if the
'components' of a mobile device also spread the globe - as a  
development kit or separately.

> for your Q about project files instead of pdf: OM is making money by  
> selling
> hw, so there's not much sense in publishing data that doesn't help  
> EE guys in
> community to understand the hw but instead is only needed for  
> production
> purposes. In the end you can't do anything on a single-device basis  
> with
> layout or schem proj data you couldn't do without it. Or are you the  
> guy
> who's etching 8-layer at home and soldering uBGA by hand? ;-) You  
> can't patch
> a ready-done 8layer PCB, no matter what your document files are (sw  
> POV on
> hw!). And no company is going to invest in producing some dozen  
> proto PCB
> done by "anonymous" community guys, without checking each and every  
> trace and
> footprint again what in the end for sure is more work than doing it  
> inhouse
> from scratch.

I don't mean that you grab the prototypes blindly for your use. But  
didn't you think, the comunity
will also help in hardware aspects?

Maybe the devkit could be coubled with a contest, who develops the  
best mod or addon. Or as an early preview
for developers of software (the display discussion for sample:  
Touchscreen Capacitive (was Re: OT: iPhone howto)).

Did someone yet really implemented drivers for a multitouch display?

Wouldn't it good to get one preassembled from OM to develop for it?

Therefore a kit would be good. Also selling kits for parts only.

Gerald: It is worth to publish the private post :-)

>
> Other companies tend to keep schematics closed to protect their IP,  
> so we at
> OM at least don't want to give asian cloners a kickstart without  
> adding *any*
> benefit for our customers.

Do you really think, they don't get any value just from the PDF version?
Time will tell us this.

Other companies think about using the same idea behind open source for  
hardware. It's because
of one big issue today: The technologie changes so fast, that  
individual development is too expensive.

Opencores as mentioned above is impressing me. Another group is going  
similar steps in automotive. Even yet
closed and membership is propably very expensive, But there is  
movement in how to develop technical products.

Lothar

-- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
Lothar Behrens
Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
73252 Lenningen











From fernando at cmartins.nl  Sun Apr  5 20:42:44 2009
From: fernando at cmartins.nl (Fernando Martins)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 20:42:44 +0200
Subject: Buying a Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <20090405105012.279d27b8@young-crunchbang>
References: <49AC7C33.50000@gmx.at>
	<goitfh$h5u$1@ger.gmane.org>	<49ADC6C7.9030701@openmoko.com>	<bff0f0570904031000r788cdf70qa4e222c80ac8ddfe@mail.gmail.com>	<49D7D21A.6080001@openmoko.com>	<bff0f0570904041515j5641358dmd3d786710b1a0c95@mail.gmail.com>	<49D7ED4C.7000702@openmoko.com>
	<20090405105012.279d27b8@young-crunchbang>
Message-ID: <49D8FBA4.6000208@cmartins.nl>

Young wrote:
> 2. with the recent announcements, I am unsure whether I want to
> purchase one. 
As suggested other times, maybe you could also look for someone in your 
area that could show you the phone and share experience with you.

Fernando



From marknight11 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 20:48:40 2009
From: marknight11 at gmail.com (Mark Night)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 00:18:40 +0530
Subject: Error while building the sample project using openmoko toolchain
Message-ID: <bcdb58fc0904051148s61f97379l7d815c153f985147@mail.gmail.com>

hello,

I downloaded the toolchain and tried to build the sample project using steps
as given on
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain#Building_a_sample_project

But, when I tried to run make command, I got the following error:

>>libtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/lib/libXinerama.la'
>>make[2]: *** [openmoko-sample] Error 1

Can anyone suggest me the way to deal with the problem. I am having the
doubt that while cross compiling it, why it searches for library in
"/usr/lib/" ?

Thanks in advance.
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From hns at computer.org  Sun Apr  5 21:00:50 2009
From: hns at computer.org (Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 21:00:50 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <5B5468C1-7875-4012-8BA0-1BE89B24DB36@lollisoft.de>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<200904051814.04164.joerg@openmoko.org>
	<5B5468C1-7875-4012-8BA0-1BE89B24DB36@lollisoft.de>
Message-ID: <C0BCBD7F-F402-4B4A-92E3-EE24A74C491D@computer.org>

Hi Lothar, J?rg, Sean, Steve, and all others who are interested in a  
future GTA03,

I have also been thinking for a while in exactly the same direction.  
Making the development of the GTA03 a community activity. Supported  
and sponsored by individuals and companies who are interested in the  
results.

On one hand HW development needs a clear and close communication  
between people. On the other hand it needs a large number of  
supporters who keep their fingers out until they are asked. But  
synchronizing activities is much more difficult than with SW (using  
SVN or GIT).

What we IMHO therefore need is:

* a core team that works (at least semi-)professionally on it. I think  
the community is large enough to provide enough members with all  
expertise that is required (from mechanics over battery to RF etc.).
* a clear milestone plan as in every successful hardware development  
project
* a specification freeze at some point in the milestone plan
* openness to ask for help into the community to judge between several  
similar technical solutions for the same requirement
* funding of the project organization (e.g. we can set up a community  
funds or society or association or however the legal form has to be  
choosen). Funding levels could start at 5? per year for students and  
go upwards for individuals and companies. And special services (e.g.  
managing the production of 100 customized units) could even provide  
more funding for the organization.

A word to all those who think Hardware can not be developed by a  
community should take a look at:

	http://www.amsat.org/

Building, launching and operating not only 1 but approx. 50 satellites  
in the past 30 years is definitively more complex than building an  
open smartphone.

Nikolaus


Am 05.04.2009 um 19:39 schrieb Lothar Behrens:

>
> Am 05.04.2009 um 18:14 schrieb Joerg Reisenweber:
>
>> Am So  5. April 2009 schrieb Lothar Behrens:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am mostly reading and sometime writing here. If it was useful or
>>> useless - I don't know. But anyway.
>>> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
>> [...]
>> Hi Lothar,
>> nope this won't fly. It's basically the sw pov approach to hw
>> development
>> Steve mentioned in one of his current posts.
>
> I may read his post...
>
>>
>> Developing hw is more than creating a good looking schematics in
>> Eagle, and
>> tasks like layout are partially done by autorouter and the other
>> half is a
>> *close* *interactive* process between the layout gal, the EE guys,
>> the RF
>> guys, the ME dept, sourcing dept etc etc.
>
> It is indeed difficult. But otoh are many hw projects (http://opencores.org/
>  or http://opencollector.org/ for sample),
> or at least hw related.
>
>>
>> IIRC OM had some really nasty experience when outsourcing some
>> layout task.
>> Just because the layout didn't understand exactly what EE had in
>> mind when
>> creating the schem, and EE didn't closely check the work of  
>> layouters.
>>
>
> I don't speak about outsourcing. I have made similar experiences with
> outsourcing:
>
> An EE project (motor control) should be outsourced, but the schematics
> were sent by faximile!
> The result was about writing an application to compare the netlists to
> compare the then distinct
> projects (different wire names and the like).
>
> So don't split any EE project or work with different versions without
> a CVS or SVN!
>
> But giving development boards or mobile phone development kits would
> be an option to
> broaden the idea behind open mobile phone. Say, a GSM kit could be
> used for the carPC hobby
> engineer. And there are really GSM modules sold by other companies. (http://www.gsm-modem.de/
> )
>
> Then you have the control about your pcb design, but propably broaden
> your product palette.
>
> Not all developers need a complete telephone. But you could indeed get
> more value if the
> 'components' of a mobile device also spread the globe - as a
> development kit or separately.
>
>> for your Q about project files instead of pdf: OM is making money by
>> selling
>> hw, so there's not much sense in publishing data that doesn't help
>> EE guys in
>> community to understand the hw but instead is only needed for
>> production
>> purposes. In the end you can't do anything on a single-device basis
>> with
>> layout or schem proj data you couldn't do without it. Or are you the
>> guy
>> who's etching 8-layer at home and soldering uBGA by hand? ;-) You
>> can't patch
>> a ready-done 8layer PCB, no matter what your document files are (sw
>> POV on
>> hw!). And no company is going to invest in producing some dozen
>> proto PCB
>> done by "anonymous" community guys, without checking each and every
>> trace and
>> footprint again what in the end for sure is more work than doing it
>> inhouse
>> from scratch.
>
> I don't mean that you grab the prototypes blindly for your use. But
> didn't you think, the comunity
> will also help in hardware aspects?
>
> Maybe the devkit could be coubled with a contest, who develops the
> best mod or addon. Or as an early preview
> for developers of software (the display discussion for sample:
> Touchscreen Capacitive (was Re: OT: iPhone howto)).
>
> Did someone yet really implemented drivers for a multitouch display?
>
> Wouldn't it good to get one preassembled from OM to develop for it?
>
> Therefore a kit would be good. Also selling kits for parts only.
>
> Gerald: It is worth to publish the private post :-)
>
>>
>> Other companies tend to keep schematics closed to protect their IP,
>> so we at
>> OM at least don't want to give asian cloners a kickstart without
>> adding *any*
>> benefit for our customers.
>
> Do you really think, they don't get any value just from the PDF  
> version?
> Time will tell us this.
>
> Other companies think about using the same idea behind open source for
> hardware. It's because
> of one big issue today: The technologie changes so fast, that
> individual development is too expensive.
>
> Opencores as mentioned above is impressing me. Another group is going
> similar steps in automotive. Even yet
> closed and membership is propably very expensive, But there is
> movement in how to develop technical products.
>
> Lothar
>
> -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
> Lothar Behrens
> Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
> 73252 Lenningen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community




From michael-tansella at gmx.de  Sun Apr  5 21:01:58 2009
From: michael-tansella at gmx.de (Michael Tansella)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 21:01:58 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <987669.67380.qm@web26302.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<3494db260904050352q4412e91drdf7f5174a040bc98@mail.gmail.com>
	<987669.67380.qm@web26302.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200904052101.58780.michael-tansella@gmx.de>

> doesnt. Can anyone confirm this or tell a way to make the accelerometer
> work again?

CONFIRMED ! Don't know how to make them work.
Greets
Michael



From fercerpav at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 21:08:01 2009
From: fercerpav at gmail.com (Paul Fertser)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 23:08:01 +0400
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <200904052101.58780.michael-tansella@gmx.de> (Michael Tansella's
	message of "Sun\, 5 Apr 2009 21\:01\:58 +0200")
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<3494db260904050352q4412e91drdf7f5174a040bc98@mail.gmail.com>
	<987669.67380.qm@web26302.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<200904052101.58780.michael-tansella@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <m263higbqm.fsf@home.pavel.comp>

Michael Tansella <michael-tansella at gmx.de> writes:
>> doesnt. Can anyone confirm this or tell a way to make the accelerometer
>> work again?
>
> CONFIRMED ! Don't know how to make them work.

How do they not work? Probably you just use applications that nobody
cares to update to handle the proper way of reporting accelerometer
events that was announced about 2 months ago?

-- 
Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
mailto:fercerpav at gmail.com



From michael-tansella at gmx.de  Sun Apr  5 21:34:08 2009
From: michael-tansella at gmx.de (Michael Tansella)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 21:34:08 +0200
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <m263higbqm.fsf@home.pavel.comp>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904052101.58780.michael-tansella@gmx.de>
	<m263higbqm.fsf@home.pavel.comp>
Message-ID: <200904052134.09096.michael-tansella@gmx.de>

> How do they not work? Probably you just use applications that nobody
> cares to update to handle the proper way of reporting accelerometer
> events that was announced about 2 months ago?

I used the python script from the wiki and it delivered only zeros.



#!/usr/bin/python
import struct
from math import sqrt

x = 0
y = 0
z = 0
secondsensorfile = "/dev/input/event3"
#int, int, short, short, int
fmt = 'iihhi'
#open file in binary mode
in_file = open(secondsensorfile,"rb")
event = in_file.read(16)
while event:
	(time1,time2, type, code, value) = \
		struct.unpack(fmt,event)
	time = time1 + time2 / 1000000.0

	if type == 2:
		if code == 0:
			x = value
		if code == 1:
			y = value
		if code == 2:
			z = value
	if type == 0 and code == 0:
		sum = int(sqrt(x*x + y*y + z*z))
		print x, y, z, sum
	event = in_file.read(16)
in_file.close()




From lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de  Sun Apr  5 21:48:37 2009
From: lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de (Lothar Behrens)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 21:48:37 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <C0BCBD7F-F402-4B4A-92E3-EE24A74C491D@computer.org>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<200904051814.04164.joerg@openmoko.org>
	<5B5468C1-7875-4012-8BA0-1BE89B24DB36@lollisoft.de>
	<C0BCBD7F-F402-4B4A-92E3-EE24A74C491D@computer.org>
Message-ID: <7B6EFE93-A1AB-4CCF-8EE4-7A140B44C577@lollisoft.de>


Am 05.04.2009 um 21:00 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller:

> Hi Lothar, J?rg, Sean, Steve, and all others who are interested in a  
> future GTA03,
>

[snip]

> * funding of the project organization (e.g. we can set up a  
> community funds or society or association or however the legal form  
> has to be choosen). Funding levels could start at 5? per year for  
> students and go upwards for individuals and companies. And special  
> services (e.g. managing the production of 100 customized units)  
> could even provide more funding for the organization.

And indeed we fund with the purchase of our phones. I mostly played  
with the navit package and done some bug reports. It's a hobby and  
thus it would
also move someone to fund in comunity sub projects when there is a way  
of hand on soldering and the like.

Also I played with the CAD files, wrote a script to convert some of  
them, that costs me about 1 day. It is a fund. The idea behind that  
was to make the CAD
files available in more formats and thus propably push private case  
mods.

>
>
> A word to all those who think Hardware can not be developed by a  
> community should take a look at:
>
> 	http://www.amsat.org/
>
> Building, launching and operating not only 1 but approx. 50  
> satellites in the past 30 years is definitively more complex than  
> building an open smartphone.

Hmm. Then open source projects were not the first movements in the  
spirit of openess :-)

This is a great sample.

Here are some links about mobile equipment resellers:

TFT displays:
http://www.cartft.com/catalog/gl/111

USB display
http://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/1057

carPC site (german):
http://www.car-pc.info/

A link to books about building car PC's (linked in the carPC site):
http://www.amazon.de/dp/0071468269?tag=cartftcom-21&camp=1410&creative=6378&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=0071468269&adid=044B8W2G03ATQDZ5ECZK&

This is unrelated but there are always people who build their own :-)

Lothar

-- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
Lothar Behrens
Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
73252 Lenningen











From matthias.stone.lists at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 21:56:18 2009
From: matthias.stone.lists at gmail.com (Matthias Stone)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 13:56:18 -0600
Subject: Error while building the sample project using openmoko toolchain
In-Reply-To: <bcdb58fc0904051148s61f97379l7d815c153f985147@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bcdb58fc0904051148s61f97379l7d815c153f985147@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <63e93b160904051256m33b555ffmd94f4629b194cd72@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, the following advice comes from an ametuer.

I doubt this is the proper (or universal) way to fix this, but what I found
worked around this for me:  copy the ccmake command before the errors, cd
into the src/ directory, and paste the command into your terminal and run
it.  I found this builds and links the object files correctly, and they work
on my FR.  YMMV, of course.

Also, if someone has a "proper" way to fix this, I would be interested as
well, as this is (very) hackish.

On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Mark Night <marknight11 at gmail.com> wrote:

> hello,
>
> I downloaded the toolchain and tried to build the sample project using
> steps as given on
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain#Building_a_sample_project
>
> But, when I tried to run make command, I got the following error:
>
> >>libtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/lib/libXinerama.la'
> >>make[2]: *** [openmoko-sample] Error 1
>
> Can anyone suggest me the way to deal with the problem. I am having the
> doubt that while cross compiling it, why it searches for library in
> "/usr/lib/" ?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
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From lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de  Sun Apr  5 21:58:53 2009
From: lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de (Lothar Behrens)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 21:58:53 +0200
Subject: Interesting gadget for navit application and a feature enabler (was
	Re: Slashdotted)
In-Reply-To: <C0BCBD7F-F402-4B4A-92E3-EE24A74C491D@computer.org>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<200904051814.04164.joerg@openmoko.org>
	<5B5468C1-7875-4012-8BA0-1BE89B24DB36@lollisoft.de>
	<C0BCBD7F-F402-4B4A-92E3-EE24A74C491D@computer.org>
Message-ID: <CC19BA69-69D1-47EB-B1E4-86D66DE3839B@lollisoft.de>

Just to mention here, also found at the car TFT site (GNS FM9 TMC  
receiver (miniUSB) *neu*):

http://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/1016

This may be interesting for the navit project.

Lothar



From fercerpav at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 22:05:14 2009
From: fercerpav at gmail.com (Paul Fertser)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:05:14 +0400
Subject: Accelerometers in recent kernels (was: Re: [SHR] latest unstable with
	problems!)
In-Reply-To: <200904052134.09096.michael-tansella@gmx.de> (Michael Tansella's
	message of "Sun\, 5 Apr 2009 21\:34\:08 +0200")
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904052101.58780.michael-tansella@gmx.de>
	<m263higbqm.fsf@home.pavel.comp>
	<200904052134.09096.michael-tansella@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <m21vs6g939.fsf_-_@home.pavel.comp>

Michael Tansella <michael-tansella at gmx.de> writes:
>> How do they not work? Probably you just use applications that nobody
>> cares to update to handle the proper way of reporting accelerometer
>> events that was announced about 2 months ago?
>
> I used the python script from the wiki and it delivered only zeros.

Have you seen this[1]? Are you sure the script is compatible?

[1] http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commit;h=b2ae84d8bd469fe81fa0a967fde9008416a78365

-- 
Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
mailto:fercerpav at gmail.com



From marknight11 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 22:09:01 2009
From: marknight11 at gmail.com (Mark Night)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 01:39:01 +0530
Subject: Error while building the sample project using openmoko toolchain
In-Reply-To: <63e93b160904051256m33b555ffmd94f4629b194cd72@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bcdb58fc0904051148s61f97379l7d815c153f985147@mail.gmail.com>
	<63e93b160904051256m33b555ffmd94f4629b194cd72@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bcdb58fc0904051309w481938f7q89a50e78e950fc02@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 1:26 AM, Matthias Stone <
matthias.stone.lists at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, the following advice comes from an ametuer.
>
> I doubt this is the proper (or universal) way to fix this, but what I found
> worked around this for me:  copy the ccmake command before the errors, cd
> into the src/ directory, and paste the command into your terminal and run
> it.  I found this builds and links the object files correctly, and they work
> on my FR.  YMMV, of course.
>
> Also, if someone has a "proper" way to fix this, I would be interested as
> well, as this is (very) hackish.

Thanks for your advise. But I later found the troubleshooting part here  :
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain#Troubleshooting
I run the script given here and then "make" command worked. I hope this will
work for others also...
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From baba_melone at yahoo.de  Sun Apr  5 22:16:48 2009
From: baba_melone at yahoo.de (hab keen oh ne)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 20:16:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: AW: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <200904052134.09096.michael-tansella@gmx.de>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904052101.58780.michael-tansella@gmx.de>
	<m263higbqm.fsf@home.pavel.comp>
	<200904052134.09096.michael-tansella@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <664755.40468.qm@web26302.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Im using my own software, so I swear its not a software issue^^. Im not getting zeros, though, just very small values, that can have a negative sign, too, but do not change.




________________________________
Von: Michael Tansella <michael-tansella at gmx.de>
An: List for Openmoko community discussion <community at lists.openmoko.org>
Gesendet: Sonntag, den 5. April 2009, 21:34:08 Uhr
Betreff: Re: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!

> How do they not work? Probably you just use applications that nobody
> cares to update to handle the proper way of reporting accelerometer
> events that was announced about 2 months ago?

I used the python script from the wiki and it delivered only zeros.



#!/usr/bin/python
import struct
from math import sqrt

x = 0
y = 0
z = 0
secondsensorfile = "/dev/input/event3"
#int, int, short, short, int
fmt = 'iihhi'
#open file in binary mode
in_file = open(secondsensorfile,"rb")
event = in_file.read(16)
while event:
    (time1,time2, type, code, value) = \
        struct.unpack(fmt,event)
    time = time1 + time2 / 1000000.0

    if type == 2:
        if code == 0:
            x = value
        if code == 1:
            y = value
        if code == 2:
            z = value
    if type == 0 and code == 0:
        sum = int(sqrt(x*x + y*y + z*z))
        print x, y, z, sum
    event = in_file.read(16)
in_file.close()


_______________________________________________
Openmoko community mailing list
community at lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



      
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From baba_melone at yahoo.de  Sun Apr  5 23:03:28 2009
From: baba_melone at yahoo.de (hab keen oh ne)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 21:03:28 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: AW: Accelerometers in recent kernels (was: Re: [SHR] latest unstable
	with problems!)
In-Reply-To: <m21vs6g939.fsf_-_@home.pavel.comp>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904052101.58780.michael-tansella@gmx.de>
	<m263higbqm.fsf@home.pavel.comp>
	<200904052134.09096.michael-tansella@gmx.de>
	<m21vs6g939.fsf_-_@home.pavel.comp>
Message-ID: <76639.31898.qm@web26308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hm, that makes sense. Are you sure this patch is included in the new kernel. Does ths mean, that we have to rewrite all our software?




________________________________
Von: Paul Fertser <fercerpav at gmail.com>
An: Michael Tansella <michael-tansella at gmx.de>
CC: List for Openmoko community discussion <community at lists.openmoko.org>
Gesendet: Sonntag, den 5. April 2009, 22:05:14 Uhr
Betreff: Accelerometers in recent kernels (was: Re: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!)

Michael Tansella <michael-tansella at gmx.de> writes:
>> How do they not work? Probably you just use applications that nobody
>> cares to update to handle the proper way of reporting accelerometer
>> events that was announced about 2 months ago?
>
> I used the python script from the wiki and it delivered only zeros.

Have you seen this[1]? Are you sure the script is compatible?

[1] http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commit;h=b2ae84d8bd469fe81fa0a967fde9008416a78365

-- 
Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
mailto:fercerpav at gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Openmoko community mailing list
community at lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



      
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From steve at openmoko.com  Sun Apr  5 23:21:36 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 14:21:36 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
Message-ID: <49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com>

Good comments All.

Let me inline some answers/explanations.

Lothar Behrens wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am mostly reading and sometime writing here. If it was useful or  
> useless - I don't know. But anyway.
> 
> Let me arse around with some stupid ideas :-)
> 
> What is a open phone?
> 
> Is it only open source software or is it also open hardware?
> 
> If software could be developed virtually at any place and from any  
> person, why don't we do the same for
> hardware?
> 
> Ok I cannot buy expensive equipment to test hardware that I may have  
> developed, but I virtually could
> develop hardware. But many developers at one subject could spend money  
> for a rent to let one of the
> team do outstanding tests.

  At the begining of Sean's presentation you will see two slides:
  1. a picture of Steve Ballmer ( the evil empire)
  2. A picture of paul Otilinni ( intel)

  And the point sean made about this was as follows; If a 15 year old 
kid   tells ballmer that he has developed a technology that will disrupt 
microsofts business, Ballmer would do well to listen to him. Why? 
because with a computer and a compiler it is possible to disrupt their
business or at least make there lives uncomfortable. Long ago back in
1994 before MS had any 3D api in windows there were three small UK 
companies that had 3D apis for the desktop: argonaut; Rendermorphics;
and Criterion ( i worked there). These were really very small companies
and what we did was keep gamers in DOS, while MS wanted to move gaming
to windows. We disrupted their plans to move important apps into DOS.
So they paid attention to us. I remember sitting with Alex st John
and eric engstrom as they discussed what was originally called the
"manhatten project" later to be directX. And the phrase disruptive 
technologies came up over and over again. One guy even had a folder on 
his desktop labeled disruptive technologies. In the end, MS
aquired rendermorphics and it became Direct3D  The point: in the 
software world, a kid and an idea is  potentially a powerful force. The 
history of this is covered in this book:

Drummond, Michael (November 2000). Renegades of the Empire: How Three 
Software Warriors Started a Revolution Behind the Walls of Fortress 
Microsoft. California: Three Rivers Press. ISBN 978-0609807453. Covers 
the early years of DirectX development within Microsoft, including the 
acquisition of RenderMorphics.

The bottom line on software is this: the business of software is easy
to disrupt because the barriers to entry ( the cost of tools) is 
comparatively low.

Now, lets look at hardware. If that same 15 year kid came to Paul 
Otillini and said he had technology that would disrupt Intels business
what would paul do. He'd ask the kid who his investors were? ask what
EDA tools did he use? Synopsis? did he have a cycle accurate C-SIM of 
the chip? Who was his fab?  was he planning an ASIC flow or COT flow
for the chip, what tools did they use for floor planning, routing etc.
The cost of these tools and the cost of proving something in silicon
are in the millions of dollars. Hardware is hard. The barriers to entry
are huge, not only IP barriers but sheer cost.


So, Sean's basic point in those first two slides is that 
entering/disrupting the software business is orders of magnitude
easier than entering the hardware business.

This of course is an extreme comparison, used however to make a
point. We should be on guard against notions and attitudes that
characterize the hardware business as easy. At OM we entered the
hardware business at the system level. Not designing chips of course, 
but one level up from that: designing
hardware systems. Here too, however, you see costs and risks that
form barriers to entry. For example, the test lab we maintain for
testing phones has 5Million dollars of equipment. A prototype
run of an evaluation board can cost 50K USD. 20 phones: 50K.

I use this analogy. You write your code in a series of units.
you unit test them. Then you do your first integration.
You set up your make files and I charge you 50K to hit return. would you 
hit the compile button?

We've all sat there and said, just compile it, see if works. That's
easy in software. In Sean's presentation you'll see a slide.
"gcc GTA02v5  doesnt work" what that means is this. There are perhaps
some unconcious attitudes people have carried over from the software 
world that will jump up and bite them when they start to work in the 
hardware world. I'll use another metaphor. Building hardware  requires
a "waterfall" design process, at least in my experience. In the software 
world, outside of DOD and NASA, we'd be hard pressed to find projects
that followed a strict waterfall model.
In a waterfall model you start with requirements. And you don't write
a line of code until requirements are 100% done and complete and signed
off. Once the requirements are done. They don't change. Then, and only
then you get to do design. You are still not writing any code. when
design is 100% complete, you move to implementation. If you're not 
familiar with this approach I can tell you it's a PITA. But it has its 
advantages: a requirements defect found late in the game ( in 
verification for example ) can cost 50-200X more to fix than if it was
fixed in the requirements phase. This holds especially true for embedded
software.
So what's the result if you don't use a waterfall model in
hardware development. Whats the cost if you find a requirements defect 
or a design defect ( glamo? )when you do that prototype run? 50K 
minimum, plus a redesign. Take the appendix out--perform a glamoectomy?
ask Werner about the design implications of that on WIFI. And
see my comments below about design and diving into peanut butter.

That means this: if you are designing hardware or doing hardware system 
integration you would be well advised to follow a waterfall model. Any 
other approach is prone to excessive delays and costly recamps. Just 
read the list and see the number of people who are suggesting 
implementations for a new GTA03 design. The rush to implementation-- use 
this processor.. no use that processor, camera or no camera, resistive 
or capacitive, keyboard or touch.-- ALL signs to me of a lack of 
appreciation for the complexity and cost involved in doing hardware. I 
got a hammer your problem must be a nail. I'll give you
another example. During the course of many discussion about GTA03 and 
GTA04 both here and inside OM, both before and after the demise of GTA03
I see a pattern of discussion and problem solving that is, in my mind, 
part of the problem. Those discussions go like this: "what if we take the
GTA03 and stick it in the 02 case?" which leads to "but where will the 
camera go?" which leads to "do we really need a camera?" and so time
and energy is spent on this "solution" In the end, marketing looks at 
that and says "who took the fucking camera out!" that's not an actual 
example, but you get the idea.

The bottom line is this. To do a GTA03 right means starting with 
requirements. 100% complete requirements. set in stone... or quick 
setting cement. We had a couple of sayings in the jet fighter business.
Design is like diving into a swimming pool of peanut butter. You better
pick your landing zone right because there not much ability to swim 
around after you hit. And also, this: "engineers almost never make 
mistakes, the guys who set requirements do."


> 
> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
In one sense this is trivally true. hardware development is
inherently collaborative. But I suppose you mean is it possible
to do it in an open fashion. It maybe. But if the requirements process
and design process is not rigorous and well defined you end up
with expensive implementation problems. And if you don't have team 
consensus, then it's very problematic. Forking software is easy.
Forking hardware is forking hard. The best example I can use is
forking ASIC design. You can do a big chip with lots of functionality
and then fork off 'defeatured' versions, but that forking needs to
be designed in.and it may come with a cost. the same holds true
for modular hardware designs. what's easy with lego blocks aint so
trivial when it comes to EE design.


> 
> There are many hobby projects around in the net. These are really not  
> at a level as OpenMoko or in
> general a device such as a mobile phone, but what is if we could get  
> preproduced components such
> as the gsm 'plugin board'?
The OM designs all used "modules" for GSM and modules for things like
WIFI and BT as opposed to "down" designs or chips on PCBs. The diffculty
is not in finding components or modules and system level design is 
fairly straight forward. The real difficulties come in areas like RF
design ( a black art of sorts) and in the marriage of mechanical and EE.
> 
> I mean, if I am a crack in developing gsm stuff, but don't like to buy  
> a complete phone for it, I probably buy
> the gsm module, say, with an interface connectable anyhow to a PC.
3G dongle
> 
> What I also think about, is why are there only PDF schematics available?
Well, we are looking at making the gerbers available under a licencing 
program. Stay tuned.
> 
> I have only heared about the dash derivat of openmoko device. Is it  
> because there is only a PDF available?
No, we designed DASH electronics using Our existing design. As Sean
points out in his presentation, this project proved to be a distraction
from our main goals in that time period. Why? here's a solution for 
Dash, just take the existing design and make a few changes and recompile
the hardware!
> 
> If it is possible to delegate hardware development tasks to the  
> comunity why isn't it done yet?
I'm in the process of exploring this with a new list. However, you
need to understand the process:
1. requirements: the community can help here.
2. Design: the community can help here:
3. Implementation: Build EVT boards. This is where you need money and
    infrastructure. So, if the community wanted to Build and buy EVT 
boards ( I actually suggested this to Sean) then that could happen.
But an EVT board costs about 2 grand. I suppose if we had 20+ volunteers
who wanted to do this, it could be done. But remember EVT boards often
end up not working. Build 20, get 15.

I'm not saying that it's impossible, but everyone who gets involved 
needs to know the mountain in front of them.

And we havent even discussed ID. ID could be developed by the community.
In fact, we had planned a design contest for alternative cases for the 
GTA03. With volunteer efforts you could probably make it through a first
pass at ID and mech. here again samples are costly. early samples are 
done on CNC machines, later rapid prototypes (25K) and hard tooling
is well over 100K.

> 
> So when also open up the real circuit 'source code' - the real CAD  
> files, would it give the real goal - the open mobile phone - a real  
> push?
I'm looking into that. There is no fundamental objection to that. the 
terms and conditions are what I need to examine. Also, many people 
question the importance of gerbers. If you just want to copy the design
as is and send those files out to have a PCB built, then having the 
gerbers saves you the time of reverse engineering from the schematics
or reverse engineering from the actual board ( seen that done) but 
gerbers dont give you a theory of operations and design changes to a 
design you dont understand can have knock on effects: see the glamoectomy.
> 
> Then if there are some results that have a chance to become a real  
> 'next' phone, a company like openmoko could
> think about producing some prototypes. So the company has a reduced  
> cost.
  without looking at actual numbers I would say 20% of the cost is
  in requirements and design and 80% in implementation, verification,
production, test, and maintennce. Again, we are thinking down some 
similar paths, so your comments are welcomed.
> 
> There is one really good electronics project: The internal debug board.
  Ya I love werners stuff. Now, for a while, the GTA03 was going to have 
an internal debug board. The words flew kinda hot and heavy on that one.
less than 50% of all buyers get a debug board. Should we include 
internal debug capability on every GTA03? I won't revisit that debate here.
> 
> This is only one sample that there are hardware developers out there.  
> Give them more food.
That's what were are going to try to do.
> 
> My education in 1987 till 1990, was electronics engineering. I do not  
> any more practice in that area. So I stuck in some conflict
> not to start any electronics projects, because I have the glue the  
> project will be a one man show and keep a hobby project. But
> if there would be a collerative project I could join, I propably  
> would. And may it only getting more practice in laying out PCB boards
> whose schematics other developers have created.
Ok.. here comes a question. What layout tools? are there open source 
layout tools ( one hopes) and if not then what tool do we pick?
Essentially, you are pitching the idea I'm going to try to get going.
I'll make an announcement about it shortly, but my plate is pretty full
and I can only volunteer a couple hours a day to help organize and guide it.
> 
> If that would be possible, then it would be a real open phone :-)
> 
> End of arsing around. Is there a potential to create a hardware  
> development comunity?
  I think so. no harm in trying.
> 
> To avoid that each individual will start its own variant we could  
> using a vote system before any direction is done, say wich formfactor is
> used, for sample.
  The voting approach will be discussed. Basically I dont believe in 
letting idiots vote. You dont want me voting on your layout and 
convincing everyone with my superb rhetoric that your 8 layer design
can be accomplished in 2 layers.. you get my drift. The community will
have to have SME ( subject matter experts) They will have to have some
undemocratic powers. my view at least.
> 
> Sean: This would propably help continue GTA3 development. The risk to  
> produce it, would only invest some inspections of a new design
> and doing integration tests. And even this could be donated.

I asked sean the same. We are going to set up a mailing list at 
openmoko.org to get this started.
> 
> Dont let a great idea die. Delegate hardware development activities if  
> possible. We are a comunity.
> 
> Lothar
> 
> Am 05.04.2009 um 11:18 schrieb Johny Tenfinger:
> 
>> It seems like "plan B" doesn't share anything with phones and...  
>> Linux ;(
>>
>> 2009/4/5, David Reyes Samblas Martinez <david at tuxbrain.com>:
>>> only add that replies are quite unfair to a any free project whatever
>>> it succeed or not.
>>>
>>> 2009/4/5 David Reyes Samblas Martinez <david at tuxbrain.com>:
>>>> Yes very sad wrong titular "No More OpenMoko Phone " and very
>>>> discorageus comentaries :(
>>>>
>>>> 2009/4/5 robert lazarski <robertlazarski at gmail.com>:
>>>>> http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/04/228240&art_pos=2
>>>>>
>>>>> Not pretty. As someone who has been lurking on this list for 1 1/2
>>>>> years, patiently waiting to buy a phone but trying to avoid buzz  
>>>>> fix
>>>>> parties if I could help it, I suppose its not surprising. On the
>>>>> positive side, I'll stick around to see what happens with plan b  
>>>>> - if
>>>>> that is there's anyone left to develop it and its not vapor. I like
>>>>> the idea of Freerunner, just not its execution. I'd like to  
>>>>> surprised
>>>>> though and see a turn around. And yes, I'll probably buy one that
>>>>> ships without hardware problems.
>>>>>
>>>>> - R
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
>>>> http://www.tuxbrain.com
>>>> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
>>>> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
>>>> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
>>> http://www.tuxbrain.com
>>> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
>>> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
>>> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
> 
> -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
> Lothar Behrens
> Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
> 73252 Lenningen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



From gunnar.grimnes at dfki.de  Sun Apr  5 23:41:45 2009
From: gunnar.grimnes at dfki.de (Gunnar AAstrand Grimnes)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 23:41:45 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <49D92599.5000303@dfki.de>

Nice posts Steve! This is what a community oriented company works like!
Frequent, on-time, interesting and well-written emails from the inside!

Keep it up!

- Gunnar

Steve Mosher wrote:
> Good comments All.
> 
> Let me inline some answers/explanations.
> 
> Lothar Behrens wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am mostly reading and sometime writing here. If it was useful or  
>> useless - I don't know. But anyway.
>>
>> Let me arse around with some stupid ideas :-)
>>
>> What is a open phone?
>>
>> Is it only open source software or is it also open hardware?
>>
>> If software could be developed virtually at any place and from any  
>> person, why don't we do the same for
>> hardware?
>>
>> Ok I cannot buy expensive equipment to test hardware that I may have  
>> developed, but I virtually could
>> develop hardware. But many developers at one subject could spend money  
>> for a rent to let one of the
>> team do outstanding tests.
> 
>   At the begining of Sean's presentation you will see two slides:
>   1. a picture of Steve Ballmer ( the evil empire)
>   2. A picture of paul Otilinni ( intel)
> 
>   And the point sean made about this was as follows; If a 15 year old 
> kid   tells ballmer that he has developed a technology that will disrupt 
> microsofts business, Ballmer would do well to listen to him. Why? 
> because with a computer and a compiler it is possible to disrupt their
> business or at least make there lives uncomfortable. Long ago back in
> 1994 before MS had any 3D api in windows there were three small UK 
> companies that had 3D apis for the desktop: argonaut; Rendermorphics;
> and Criterion ( i worked there). These were really very small companies
> and what we did was keep gamers in DOS, while MS wanted to move gaming
> to windows. We disrupted their plans to move important apps into DOS.
> So they paid attention to us. I remember sitting with Alex st John
> and eric engstrom as they discussed what was originally called the
> "manhatten project" later to be directX. And the phrase disruptive 
> technologies came up over and over again. One guy even had a folder on 
> his desktop labeled disruptive technologies. In the end, MS
> aquired rendermorphics and it became Direct3D  The point: in the 
> software world, a kid and an idea is  potentially a powerful force. The 
> history of this is covered in this book:
> 
> Drummond, Michael (November 2000). Renegades of the Empire: How Three 
> Software Warriors Started a Revolution Behind the Walls of Fortress 
> Microsoft. California: Three Rivers Press. ISBN 978-0609807453. Covers 
> the early years of DirectX development within Microsoft, including the 
> acquisition of RenderMorphics.
> 
> The bottom line on software is this: the business of software is easy
> to disrupt because the barriers to entry ( the cost of tools) is 
> comparatively low.
> 
> Now, lets look at hardware. If that same 15 year kid came to Paul 
> Otillini and said he had technology that would disrupt Intels business
> what would paul do. He'd ask the kid who his investors were? ask what
> EDA tools did he use? Synopsis? did he have a cycle accurate C-SIM of 
> the chip? Who was his fab?  was he planning an ASIC flow or COT flow
> for the chip, what tools did they use for floor planning, routing etc.
> The cost of these tools and the cost of proving something in silicon
> are in the millions of dollars. Hardware is hard. The barriers to entry
> are huge, not only IP barriers but sheer cost.
> 
> 
> So, Sean's basic point in those first two slides is that 
> entering/disrupting the software business is orders of magnitude
> easier than entering the hardware business.
> 
> This of course is an extreme comparison, used however to make a
> point. We should be on guard against notions and attitudes that
> characterize the hardware business as easy. At OM we entered the
> hardware business at the system level. Not designing chips of course, 
> but one level up from that: designing
> hardware systems. Here too, however, you see costs and risks that
> form barriers to entry. For example, the test lab we maintain for
> testing phones has 5Million dollars of equipment. A prototype
> run of an evaluation board can cost 50K USD. 20 phones: 50K.
> 
> I use this analogy. You write your code in a series of units.
> you unit test them. Then you do your first integration.
> You set up your make files and I charge you 50K to hit return. would you 
> hit the compile button?
> 
> We've all sat there and said, just compile it, see if works. That's
> easy in software. In Sean's presentation you'll see a slide.
> "gcc GTA02v5  doesnt work" what that means is this. There are perhaps
> some unconcious attitudes people have carried over from the software 
> world that will jump up and bite them when they start to work in the 
> hardware world. I'll use another metaphor. Building hardware  requires
> a "waterfall" design process, at least in my experience. In the software 
> world, outside of DOD and NASA, we'd be hard pressed to find projects
> that followed a strict waterfall model.
> In a waterfall model you start with requirements. And you don't write
> a line of code until requirements are 100% done and complete and signed
> off. Once the requirements are done. They don't change. Then, and only
> then you get to do design. You are still not writing any code. when
> design is 100% complete, you move to implementation. If you're not 
> familiar with this approach I can tell you it's a PITA. But it has its 
> advantages: a requirements defect found late in the game ( in 
> verification for example ) can cost 50-200X more to fix than if it was
> fixed in the requirements phase. This holds especially true for embedded
> software.
> So what's the result if you don't use a waterfall model in
> hardware development. Whats the cost if you find a requirements defect 
> or a design defect ( glamo? )when you do that prototype run? 50K 
> minimum, plus a redesign. Take the appendix out--perform a glamoectomy?
> ask Werner about the design implications of that on WIFI. And
> see my comments below about design and diving into peanut butter.
> 
> That means this: if you are designing hardware or doing hardware system 
> integration you would be well advised to follow a waterfall model. Any 
> other approach is prone to excessive delays and costly recamps. Just 
> read the list and see the number of people who are suggesting 
> implementations for a new GTA03 design. The rush to implementation-- use 
> this processor.. no use that processor, camera or no camera, resistive 
> or capacitive, keyboard or touch.-- ALL signs to me of a lack of 
> appreciation for the complexity and cost involved in doing hardware. I 
> got a hammer your problem must be a nail. I'll give you
> another example. During the course of many discussion about GTA03 and 
> GTA04 both here and inside OM, both before and after the demise of GTA03
> I see a pattern of discussion and problem solving that is, in my mind, 
> part of the problem. Those discussions go like this: "what if we take the
> GTA03 and stick it in the 02 case?" which leads to "but where will the 
> camera go?" which leads to "do we really need a camera?" and so time
> and energy is spent on this "solution" In the end, marketing looks at 
> that and says "who took the fucking camera out!" that's not an actual 
> example, but you get the idea.
> 
> The bottom line is this. To do a GTA03 right means starting with 
> requirements. 100% complete requirements. set in stone... or quick 
> setting cement. We had a couple of sayings in the jet fighter business.
> Design is like diving into a swimming pool of peanut butter. You better
> pick your landing zone right because there not much ability to swim 
> around after you hit. And also, this: "engineers almost never make 
> mistakes, the guys who set requirements do."
> 
> 
>> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
> In one sense this is trivally true. hardware development is
> inherently collaborative. But I suppose you mean is it possible
> to do it in an open fashion. It maybe. But if the requirements process
> and design process is not rigorous and well defined you end up
> with expensive implementation problems. And if you don't have team 
> consensus, then it's very problematic. Forking software is easy.
> Forking hardware is forking hard. The best example I can use is
> forking ASIC design. You can do a big chip with lots of functionality
> and then fork off 'defeatured' versions, but that forking needs to
> be designed in.and it may come with a cost. the same holds true
> for modular hardware designs. what's easy with lego blocks aint so
> trivial when it comes to EE design.
> 
> 
>> There are many hobby projects around in the net. These are really not  
>> at a level as OpenMoko or in
>> general a device such as a mobile phone, but what is if we could get  
>> preproduced components such
>> as the gsm 'plugin board'?
> The OM designs all used "modules" for GSM and modules for things like
> WIFI and BT as opposed to "down" designs or chips on PCBs. The diffculty
> is not in finding components or modules and system level design is 
> fairly straight forward. The real difficulties come in areas like RF
> design ( a black art of sorts) and in the marriage of mechanical and EE.
>> I mean, if I am a crack in developing gsm stuff, but don't like to buy  
>> a complete phone for it, I probably buy
>> the gsm module, say, with an interface connectable anyhow to a PC.
> 3G dongle
>> What I also think about, is why are there only PDF schematics available?
> Well, we are looking at making the gerbers available under a licencing 
> program. Stay tuned.
>> I have only heared about the dash derivat of openmoko device. Is it  
>> because there is only a PDF available?
> No, we designed DASH electronics using Our existing design. As Sean
> points out in his presentation, this project proved to be a distraction
> from our main goals in that time period. Why? here's a solution for 
> Dash, just take the existing design and make a few changes and recompile
> the hardware!
>> If it is possible to delegate hardware development tasks to the  
>> comunity why isn't it done yet?
> I'm in the process of exploring this with a new list. However, you
> need to understand the process:
> 1. requirements: the community can help here.
> 2. Design: the community can help here:
> 3. Implementation: Build EVT boards. This is where you need money and
>     infrastructure. So, if the community wanted to Build and buy EVT 
> boards ( I actually suggested this to Sean) then that could happen.
> But an EVT board costs about 2 grand. I suppose if we had 20+ volunteers
> who wanted to do this, it could be done. But remember EVT boards often
> end up not working. Build 20, get 15.
> 
> I'm not saying that it's impossible, but everyone who gets involved 
> needs to know the mountain in front of them.
> 
> And we havent even discussed ID. ID could be developed by the community.
> In fact, we had planned a design contest for alternative cases for the 
> GTA03. With volunteer efforts you could probably make it through a first
> pass at ID and mech. here again samples are costly. early samples are 
> done on CNC machines, later rapid prototypes (25K) and hard tooling
> is well over 100K.
> 
>> So when also open up the real circuit 'source code' - the real CAD  
>> files, would it give the real goal - the open mobile phone - a real  
>> push?
> I'm looking into that. There is no fundamental objection to that. the 
> terms and conditions are what I need to examine. Also, many people 
> question the importance of gerbers. If you just want to copy the design
> as is and send those files out to have a PCB built, then having the 
> gerbers saves you the time of reverse engineering from the schematics
> or reverse engineering from the actual board ( seen that done) but 
> gerbers dont give you a theory of operations and design changes to a 
> design you dont understand can have knock on effects: see the glamoectomy.
>> Then if there are some results that have a chance to become a real  
>> 'next' phone, a company like openmoko could
>> think about producing some prototypes. So the company has a reduced  
>> cost.
>   without looking at actual numbers I would say 20% of the cost is
>   in requirements and design and 80% in implementation, verification,
> production, test, and maintennce. Again, we are thinking down some 
> similar paths, so your comments are welcomed.
>> There is one really good electronics project: The internal debug board.
>   Ya I love werners stuff. Now, for a while, the GTA03 was going to have 
> an internal debug board. The words flew kinda hot and heavy on that one.
> less than 50% of all buyers get a debug board. Should we include 
> internal debug capability on every GTA03? I won't revisit that debate here.
>> This is only one sample that there are hardware developers out there.  
>> Give them more food.
> That's what were are going to try to do.
>> My education in 1987 till 1990, was electronics engineering. I do not  
>> any more practice in that area. So I stuck in some conflict
>> not to start any electronics projects, because I have the glue the  
>> project will be a one man show and keep a hobby project. But
>> if there would be a collerative project I could join, I propably  
>> would. And may it only getting more practice in laying out PCB boards
>> whose schematics other developers have created.
> Ok.. here comes a question. What layout tools? are there open source 
> layout tools ( one hopes) and if not then what tool do we pick?
> Essentially, you are pitching the idea I'm going to try to get going.
> I'll make an announcement about it shortly, but my plate is pretty full
> and I can only volunteer a couple hours a day to help organize and guide it.
>> If that would be possible, then it would be a real open phone :-)
>>
>> End of arsing around. Is there a potential to create a hardware  
>> development comunity?
>   I think so. no harm in trying.
>> To avoid that each individual will start its own variant we could  
>> using a vote system before any direction is done, say wich formfactor is
>> used, for sample.
>   The voting approach will be discussed. Basically I dont believe in 
> letting idiots vote. You dont want me voting on your layout and 
> convincing everyone with my superb rhetoric that your 8 layer design
> can be accomplished in 2 layers.. you get my drift. The community will
> have to have SME ( subject matter experts) They will have to have some
> undemocratic powers. my view at least.
>> Sean: This would propably help continue GTA3 development. The risk to  
>> produce it, would only invest some inspections of a new design
>> and doing integration tests. And even this could be donated.
> 
> I asked sean the same. We are going to set up a mailing list at 
> openmoko.org to get this started.
>> Dont let a great idea die. Delegate hardware development activities if  
>> possible. We are a comunity.
>>
>> Lothar
>>
>> Am 05.04.2009 um 11:18 schrieb Johny Tenfinger:
>>
>>> It seems like "plan B" doesn't share anything with phones and...  
>>> Linux ;(
>>>
>>> 2009/4/5, David Reyes Samblas Martinez <david at tuxbrain.com>:
>>>> only add that replies are quite unfair to a any free project whatever
>>>> it succeed or not.
>>>>
>>>> 2009/4/5 David Reyes Samblas Martinez <david at tuxbrain.com>:
>>>>> Yes very sad wrong titular "No More OpenMoko Phone " and very
>>>>> discorageus comentaries :(
>>>>>
>>>>> 2009/4/5 robert lazarski <robertlazarski at gmail.com>:
>>>>>> http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/04/228240&art_pos=2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not pretty. As someone who has been lurking on this list for 1 1/2
>>>>>> years, patiently waiting to buy a phone but trying to avoid buzz  
>>>>>> fix
>>>>>> parties if I could help it, I suppose its not surprising. On the
>>>>>> positive side, I'll stick around to see what happens with plan b  
>>>>>> - if
>>>>>> that is there's anyone left to develop it and its not vapor. I like
>>>>>> the idea of Freerunner, just not its execution. I'd like to  
>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>> though and see a turn around. And yes, I'll probably buy one that
>>>>>> ships without hardware problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - R
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>>>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>>>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
>>>>> http://www.tuxbrain.com
>>>>> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
>>>>> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
>>>>> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
>>>> http://www.tuxbrain.com
>>>> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
>>>> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
>>>> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>
>> -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
>> Lothar Behrens
>> Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
>> 73252 Lenningen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community




From risto at kurppa.fi  Sun Apr  5 23:44:10 2009
From: risto at kurppa.fi (Risto H. Kurppa)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 00:44:10 +0300
Subject: Results for the first programming competition for Openmoko phones
Message-ID: <d3e504410904051444t20013bfeg95c2e19d7916b3bc@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there!

We just finished the reviewing of the apps participating in the
programming competition.
Read the results at
http://risto.kurppa.fi/blog/1st-om-programming-competition-result/

We want to encourage you to participate in these projects to complete
the missing features and polish them to a diamond.

We want to thank everyone who contributed: developers, people who give
their money to award the developers, the jury members and everyone who
sent us comments and suggestions.
Please let us know if you think a competition like this is a good idea
to run again, what would you like to see as topics and if you have any
other ideas and thoughts about this, please share it with us!

r



-- 
| risto h. kurppa
| risto at kurppa dot fi
| http://risto.kurppa.fi



From fercerpav at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 23:50:26 2009
From: fercerpav at gmail.com (Paul Fertser)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 01:50:26 +0400
Subject: Accelerometers in recent kernels
In-Reply-To: <76639.31898.qm@web26308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> (hab keen oh ne's
	message of "Sun\, 5 Apr 2009 21\:03\:28 +0000 \(GMT\)")
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904052101.58780.michael-tansella@gmx.de>
	<m263higbqm.fsf@home.pavel.comp>
	<200904052134.09096.michael-tansella@gmx.de>
	<m21vs6g939.fsf_-_@home.pavel.comp>
	<76639.31898.qm@web26308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <m2ws9yepnh.fsf_-_@home.pavel.comp>

hab keen oh ne <baba_melone at yahoo.de> writes:
> Hm, that makes sense. Are you sure this patch is included in the new
> kernel. Does ths mean, that we have to rewrite all our software?

Yes, it's in andy-tracking for quite some time.

And no, not rewrite, but slightly change the software to use the new
proposed scheme that is definitely better. BTW, the patch was
discussed and announced at both -kernel and -devel mailing lists.

-- 
Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
mailto:fercerpav at gmail.com



From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 00:02:15 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:02:15 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <C0BCBD7F-F402-4B4A-92E3-EE24A74C491D@computer.org>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<200904051814.04164.joerg@openmoko.org>
	<5B5468C1-7875-4012-8BA0-1BE89B24DB36@lollisoft.de>
	<C0BCBD7F-F402-4B4A-92E3-EE24A74C491D@computer.org>
Message-ID: <49D92A67.8080301@openmoko.com>

Dr. N

  We are thinking down similar paths. See my other other posts.

  I will check out the satilite site. My sense is, without even looking,
  that a fair number of people working on the project probably had some 
aerospace background and were well schooled in the process of 
requirements driven product design. I dont want to clog up community 
with this talk so I'm trying to get a new list set up.

Steve


Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> Hi Lothar, J?rg, Sean, Steve, and all others who are interested in a 
> future GTA03,
> 
> I have also been thinking for a while in exactly the same direction. 
> Making the development of the GTA03 a community activity. Supported and 
> sponsored by individuals and companies who are interested in the results.
> 
> On one hand HW development needs a clear and close communication between 
> people. On the other hand it needs a large number of supporters who keep 
> their fingers out until they are asked. But synchronizing activities is 
> much more difficult than with SW (using SVN or GIT).
> 
> What we IMHO therefore need is:
> 
> * a core team that works (at least semi-)professionally on it. I think 
> the community is large enough to provide enough members with all 
> expertise that is required (from mechanics over battery to RF etc.).
> * a clear milestone plan as in every successful hardware development 
> project
> * a specification freeze at some point in the milestone plan
> * openness to ask for help into the community to judge between several 
> similar technical solutions for the same requirement
> * funding of the project organization (e.g. we can set up a community 
> funds or society or association or however the legal form has to be 
> choosen). Funding levels could start at 5? per year for students and go 
> upwards for individuals and companies. And special services (e.g. 
> managing the production of 100 customized units) could even provide more 
> funding for the organization.
> 
> A word to all those who think Hardware can not be developed by a 
> community should take a look at:
> 
>     http://www.amsat.org/
> 
> Building, launching and operating not only 1 but approx. 50 satellites 
> in the past 30 years is definitively more complex than building an open 
> smartphone.
> 
> Nikolaus
> 
> 
> Am 05.04.2009 um 19:39 schrieb Lothar Behrens:
> 
>>
>> Am 05.04.2009 um 18:14 schrieb Joerg Reisenweber:
>>
>>> Am So  5. April 2009 schrieb Lothar Behrens:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I am mostly reading and sometime writing here. If it was useful or
>>>> useless - I don't know. But anyway.
>>>> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
>>> [...]
>>> Hi Lothar,
>>> nope this won't fly. It's basically the sw pov approach to hw
>>> development
>>> Steve mentioned in one of his current posts.
>>
>> I may read his post...
>>
>>>
>>> Developing hw is more than creating a good looking schematics in
>>> Eagle, and
>>> tasks like layout are partially done by autorouter and the other
>>> half is a
>>> *close* *interactive* process between the layout gal, the EE guys,
>>> the RF
>>> guys, the ME dept, sourcing dept etc etc.
>>
>> It is indeed difficult. But otoh are many hw projects 
>> (http://opencores.org/
>>  or http://opencollector.org/ for sample),
>> or at least hw related.
>>
>>>
>>> IIRC OM had some really nasty experience when outsourcing some
>>> layout task.
>>> Just because the layout didn't understand exactly what EE had in
>>> mind when
>>> creating the schem, and EE didn't closely check the work of layouters.
>>>
>>
>> I don't speak about outsourcing. I have made similar experiences with
>> outsourcing:
>>
>> An EE project (motor control) should be outsourced, but the schematics
>> were sent by faximile!
>> The result was about writing an application to compare the netlists to
>> compare the then distinct
>> projects (different wire names and the like).
>>
>> So don't split any EE project or work with different versions without
>> a CVS or SVN!
>>
>> But giving development boards or mobile phone development kits would
>> be an option to
>> broaden the idea behind open mobile phone. Say, a GSM kit could be
>> used for the carPC hobby
>> engineer. And there are really GSM modules sold by other companies. 
>> (http://www.gsm-modem.de/
>> )
>>
>> Then you have the control about your pcb design, but propably broaden
>> your product palette.
>>
>> Not all developers need a complete telephone. But you could indeed get
>> more value if the
>> 'components' of a mobile device also spread the globe - as a
>> development kit or separately.
>>
>>> for your Q about project files instead of pdf: OM is making money by
>>> selling
>>> hw, so there's not much sense in publishing data that doesn't help
>>> EE guys in
>>> community to understand the hw but instead is only needed for
>>> production
>>> purposes. In the end you can't do anything on a single-device basis
>>> with
>>> layout or schem proj data you couldn't do without it. Or are you the
>>> guy
>>> who's etching 8-layer at home and soldering uBGA by hand? ;-) You
>>> can't patch
>>> a ready-done 8layer PCB, no matter what your document files are (sw
>>> POV on
>>> hw!). And no company is going to invest in producing some dozen
>>> proto PCB
>>> done by "anonymous" community guys, without checking each and every
>>> trace and
>>> footprint again what in the end for sure is more work than doing it
>>> inhouse
>>> from scratch.
>>
>> I don't mean that you grab the prototypes blindly for your use. But
>> didn't you think, the comunity
>> will also help in hardware aspects?
>>
>> Maybe the devkit could be coubled with a contest, who develops the
>> best mod or addon. Or as an early preview
>> for developers of software (the display discussion for sample:
>> Touchscreen Capacitive (was Re: OT: iPhone howto)).
>>
>> Did someone yet really implemented drivers for a multitouch display?
>>
>> Wouldn't it good to get one preassembled from OM to develop for it?
>>
>> Therefore a kit would be good. Also selling kits for parts only.
>>
>> Gerald: It is worth to publish the private post :-)
>>
>>>
>>> Other companies tend to keep schematics closed to protect their IP,
>>> so we at
>>> OM at least don't want to give asian cloners a kickstart without
>>> adding *any*
>>> benefit for our customers.
>>
>> Do you really think, they don't get any value just from the PDF version?
>> Time will tell us this.
>>
>> Other companies think about using the same idea behind open source for
>> hardware. It's because
>> of one big issue today: The technologie changes so fast, that
>> individual development is too expensive.
>>
>> Opencores as mentioned above is impressing me. Another group is going
>> similar steps in automotive. Even yet
>> closed and membership is propably very expensive, But there is
>> movement in how to develop technical products.
>>
>> Lothar
>>
>> -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
>> Lothar Behrens
>> Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
>> 73252 Lenningen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 



From michele.renda at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 00:28:37 2009
From: michele.renda at gmail.com (Michele Renda)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:28:37 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <49D93095.8000006@gmail.com>

On 05/04/2009 23:21, Steve Mosher wrote:
>   The voting approach will be discussed. Basically I dont believe in
> letting idiots vote. You dont want me voting on your layout and
> convincing everyone with my superb rhetoric that your 8 layer design
> can be accomplished in 2 layers.. you get my drift. The community will
> have to have SME ( subject matter experts) They will have to have some
> undemocratic powers. my view at least.
>    
Hello Steve

Yes, I think you took the point.
I think, if there will be an open development, I would be better if 
there will be a "meritocracy" vote.
Example: if there is to discuss about "use glamo chip" or not, I think 
is not a good idea to have all the community speaking about the xglamo, 
where 95% of the person speaking neither know the low level implication 
to use a chip in place of another (and it is normal, because not all 
people have this kind of knoledge).
I am one of these idiots.

What according me missed in openmoko was a community. Or better: there 
are a lot of person in OpenMoko community. What we missed was a lead.
What we missed was an official voice from Openmoko. Often I took you 
email as official announcement of OM, as official face.
But you are not a "community manager" but only a "maketing manager".

A community can't be democratic. Big projects as Linux, Ubuntu, Gnome, 
etc. have a community that is formed by person that don't stay all in 
the same level: there are leaders / there are developers / there are 
maintainers. And between them there is a knowledge and respect because 
they worked to get their position.

This bring people to be serious and to work collaborative. Without this 
there are only people telling only: "The GSM module suck / The Wifi 
module suck / All OM suck".

Only with this a collaborative project can born, and to have success. In 
this case FIC have only to put the money when the project will be ready.
And remember that a open project may not be democratic. Usually the best 
one are never democratic.

Someone here a long time wrote here: Ubuntu community was not an casual 
thing. It was by design.
I would like to add: OpenMoko need something like this.

These are my 2 cents.
Michele Renda



From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 00:53:01 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:53:01 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <200904051814.04164.joerg@openmoko.org>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<200904051814.04164.joerg@openmoko.org>
Message-ID: <49D9364D.5050601@openmoko.com>

as always, ditto, what joerg said. I could release the GTA03 design 
files, but there value is limited. If the design were verified (DVT)
and made ready for production (PVT) then the design files would only
have value for somebody who wanted to quickly produce PCBs. As a 
resource for a design mod ( take out edge and add in 3G) it's of limited
value since that new design will have different dimensions and will
therefore have knock-on effects on ME and  RFs.. see joergs comment 
about the systems intgration systems engineering task ( layout,EE,ME, 
and procuremnt)

Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
> Am So  5. April 2009 schrieb Lothar Behrens:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am mostly reading and sometime writing here. If it was useful or  
>> useless - I don't know. But anyway.
>> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
> [...]
> Hi Lothar,
> nope this won't fly. It's basically the sw pov approach to hw development 
> Steve mentioned in one of his current posts.
> Developing hw is more than creating a good looking schematics in Eagle, and 
> tasks like layout are partially done by autorouter and the other half is a 
> *close* *interactive* process between the layout gal, the EE guys, the RF 
> guys, the ME dept, sourcing dept etc etc.
> IIRC OM had some really nasty experience when outsourcing some layout task. 
> Just because the layout didn't understand exactly what EE had in mind when 
> creating the schem, and EE didn't closely check the work of layouters.
> 
> for your Q about project files instead of pdf: OM is making money by selling 
> hw, so there's not much sense in publishing data that doesn't help EE guys in 
> community to understand the hw but instead is only needed for production 
> purposes. In the end you can't do anything on a single-device basis with 
> layout or schem proj data you couldn't do without it. Or are you the guy 
> who's etching 8-layer at home and soldering uBGA by hand? ;-) You can't patch 
> a ready-done 8layer PCB, no matter what your document files are (sw POV on 
> hw!). And no company is going to invest in producing some dozen proto PCB 
> done by "anonymous" community guys, without checking each and every trace and 
> footprint again what in the end for sure is more work than doing it inhouse 
> from scratch.
> Other companies tend to keep schematics closed to protect their IP, so we at 
> OM at least don't want to give asian cloners a kickstart without adding *any* 
> benefit for our customers.
> 
> best regards
> jOERG
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 00:57:33 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:57:33 -0700
Subject: Buying a Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <200904051914.03220.joerg@openmoko.org>
References: <49AC7C33.50000@gmx.at>
	<20090405105012.279d27b8@young-crunchbang>	<49D8E00E.9040600@dfki.de>
	<200904051914.03220.joerg@openmoko.org>
Message-ID: <49D9375D.6000000@openmoko.com>

   not shipping with buzz fix yet.

   but im slowly pushing forward

Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
> Am So  5. April 2009 schrieb Gunnar AAstrand Grimnes:
>>> 1. The phone selling for 299 on the main site, do es it have the bug
>>> fix? or might I still have that problem?
>> From Steve recent email about getting the v7 through production I guess not.
> Steve also mentioned as many as possible on stock A6 getting fixed at fab.
> So if I got that right we are shipping with buzzfix right now.
> /j
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 01:02:59 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 16:02:59 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <7B6EFE93-A1AB-4CCF-8EE4-7A140B44C577@lollisoft.de>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>	<200904051814.04164.joerg@openmoko.org>	<5B5468C1-7875-4012-8BA0-1BE89B24DB36@lollisoft.de>	<C0BCBD7F-F402-4B4A-92E3-EE24A74C491D@computer.org>
	<7B6EFE93-A1AB-4CCF-8EE4-7A140B44C577@lollisoft.de>
Message-ID: <49D938A3.9050603@openmoko.com>

Thanks Lothar.

   I think Dr N and I will have some fruitful discussions on how to 
start this. I'll contribute my time and experience as I am able to to 
get this
going.

Lothar Behrens wrote:
> Am 05.04.2009 um 21:00 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller:
> 
>> Hi Lothar, J?rg, Sean, Steve, and all others who are interested in a  
>> future GTA03,
>>
> 
> [snip]
> 
>> * funding of the project organization (e.g. we can set up a  
>> community funds or society or association or however the legal form  
>> has to be choosen). Funding levels could start at 5? per year for  
>> students and go upwards for individuals and companies. And special  
>> services (e.g. managing the production of 100 customized units)  
>> could even provide more funding for the organization.
> 
> And indeed we fund with the purchase of our phones. I mostly played  
> with the navit package and done some bug reports. It's a hobby and  
> thus it would
> also move someone to fund in comunity sub projects when there is a way  
> of hand on soldering and the like.
> 
> Also I played with the CAD files, wrote a script to convert some of  
> them, that costs me about 1 day. It is a fund. The idea behind that  
> was to make the CAD
> files available in more formats and thus propably push private case  
> mods.
> 
>>
>> A word to all those who think Hardware can not be developed by a  
>> community should take a look at:
>>
>> 	http://www.amsat.org/
>>
>> Building, launching and operating not only 1 but approx. 50  
>> satellites in the past 30 years is definitively more complex than  
>> building an open smartphone.
> 
> Hmm. Then open source projects were not the first movements in the  
> spirit of openess :-)
> 
> This is a great sample.
> 
> Here are some links about mobile equipment resellers:
> 
> TFT displays:
> http://www.cartft.com/catalog/gl/111
> 
> USB display
> http://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/1057
> 
> carPC site (german):
> http://www.car-pc.info/
> 
> A link to books about building car PC's (linked in the carPC site):
> http://www.amazon.de/dp/0071468269?tag=cartftcom-21&camp=1410&creative=6378&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=0071468269&adid=044B8W2G03ATQDZ5ECZK&
> 
> This is unrelated but there are always people who build their own :-)
> 
> Lothar
> 
> -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
> Lothar Behrens
> Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
> 73252 Lenningen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



From tanuva at googlemail.com  Mon Apr  6 01:07:06 2009
From: tanuva at googlemail.com (Marcel)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 01:07:06 +0200
Subject: Buying a Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <49D9375D.6000000@openmoko.com>
References: <49AC7C33.50000@gmx.at> <200904051914.03220.joerg@openmoko.org>
	<49D9375D.6000000@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <200904060107.06673.tanuva@gmail.com>

Just for the records (which possibly already contain this):
I have a 02A5 (from the second batch which reached Germany) and had no buzz on 
my two short test calls the last weeks, but they only went from the Neo to a 
landline phone in the other room if that's relevant.

--
Marcel

Am Monday 06 April 2009 00:57:33 schrieb Steve Mosher:
>    not shipping with buzz fix yet.
>
>    but im slowly pushing forward
>
> Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
> > Am So  5. April 2009 schrieb Gunnar AAstrand Grimnes:
> >>> 1. The phone selling for 299 on the main site, do es it have the bug
> >>> fix? or might I still have that problem?
> >>
> >> From Steve recent email about getting the v7 through production I guess
> >> not.
> >
> > Steve also mentioned as many as possible on stock A6 getting fixed at
> > fab. So if I got that right we are shipping with buzzfix right now.
> > /j



From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 01:08:24 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 16:08:24 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <49D92599.5000303@dfki.de>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com> <49D92599.5000303@dfki.de>
Message-ID: <49D939E8.9020908@openmoko.com>

thanks. During march I got so effin buried in other stuff that my 
community posting went to hell. I sat there looking at my community 
inbox grow and grow. And I thought "I rather open my cell phone bill 
than plow through 1800 community mails" but in the end you pay your cell 
phone bill and plow through those mails. As long as I keep the inbox 
empty every day, its a joy to read and respond.

Gunnar AAstrand Grimnes wrote:
> Nice posts Steve! This is what a community oriented company works like!
> Frequent, on-time, interesting and well-written emails from the inside!
> 
> Keep it up!
> 
> - Gunnar
> 
> Steve Mosher wrote:
>> Good comments All.
>>
>> Let me inline some answers/explanations.
>>
>> Lothar Behrens wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am mostly reading and sometime writing here. If it was useful or  
>>> useless - I don't know. But anyway.
>>>
>>> Let me arse around with some stupid ideas :-)
>>>
>>> What is a open phone?
>>>
>>> Is it only open source software or is it also open hardware?
>>>
>>> If software could be developed virtually at any place and from any  
>>> person, why don't we do the same for
>>> hardware?
>>>
>>> Ok I cannot buy expensive equipment to test hardware that I may have  
>>> developed, but I virtually could
>>> develop hardware. But many developers at one subject could spend money  
>>> for a rent to let one of the
>>> team do outstanding tests.
>>   At the begining of Sean's presentation you will see two slides:
>>   1. a picture of Steve Ballmer ( the evil empire)
>>   2. A picture of paul Otilinni ( intel)
>>
>>   And the point sean made about this was as follows; If a 15 year old 
>> kid   tells ballmer that he has developed a technology that will disrupt 
>> microsofts business, Ballmer would do well to listen to him. Why? 
>> because with a computer and a compiler it is possible to disrupt their
>> business or at least make there lives uncomfortable. Long ago back in
>> 1994 before MS had any 3D api in windows there were three small UK 
>> companies that had 3D apis for the desktop: argonaut; Rendermorphics;
>> and Criterion ( i worked there). These were really very small companies
>> and what we did was keep gamers in DOS, while MS wanted to move gaming
>> to windows. We disrupted their plans to move important apps into DOS.
>> So they paid attention to us. I remember sitting with Alex st John
>> and eric engstrom as they discussed what was originally called the
>> "manhatten project" later to be directX. And the phrase disruptive 
>> technologies came up over and over again. One guy even had a folder on 
>> his desktop labeled disruptive technologies. In the end, MS
>> aquired rendermorphics and it became Direct3D  The point: in the 
>> software world, a kid and an idea is  potentially a powerful force. The 
>> history of this is covered in this book:
>>
>> Drummond, Michael (November 2000). Renegades of the Empire: How Three 
>> Software Warriors Started a Revolution Behind the Walls of Fortress 
>> Microsoft. California: Three Rivers Press. ISBN 978-0609807453. Covers 
>> the early years of DirectX development within Microsoft, including the 
>> acquisition of RenderMorphics.
>>
>> The bottom line on software is this: the business of software is easy
>> to disrupt because the barriers to entry ( the cost of tools) is 
>> comparatively low.
>>
>> Now, lets look at hardware. If that same 15 year kid came to Paul 
>> Otillini and said he had technology that would disrupt Intels business
>> what would paul do. He'd ask the kid who his investors were? ask what
>> EDA tools did he use? Synopsis? did he have a cycle accurate C-SIM of 
>> the chip? Who was his fab?  was he planning an ASIC flow or COT flow
>> for the chip, what tools did they use for floor planning, routing etc.
>> The cost of these tools and the cost of proving something in silicon
>> are in the millions of dollars. Hardware is hard. The barriers to entry
>> are huge, not only IP barriers but sheer cost.
>>
>>
>> So, Sean's basic point in those first two slides is that 
>> entering/disrupting the software business is orders of magnitude
>> easier than entering the hardware business.
>>
>> This of course is an extreme comparison, used however to make a
>> point. We should be on guard against notions and attitudes that
>> characterize the hardware business as easy. At OM we entered the
>> hardware business at the system level. Not designing chips of course, 
>> but one level up from that: designing
>> hardware systems. Here too, however, you see costs and risks that
>> form barriers to entry. For example, the test lab we maintain for
>> testing phones has 5Million dollars of equipment. A prototype
>> run of an evaluation board can cost 50K USD. 20 phones: 50K.
>>
>> I use this analogy. You write your code in a series of units.
>> you unit test them. Then you do your first integration.
>> You set up your make files and I charge you 50K to hit return. would you 
>> hit the compile button?
>>
>> We've all sat there and said, just compile it, see if works. That's
>> easy in software. In Sean's presentation you'll see a slide.
>> "gcc GTA02v5  doesnt work" what that means is this. There are perhaps
>> some unconcious attitudes people have carried over from the software 
>> world that will jump up and bite them when they start to work in the 
>> hardware world. I'll use another metaphor. Building hardware  requires
>> a "waterfall" design process, at least in my experience. In the software 
>> world, outside of DOD and NASA, we'd be hard pressed to find projects
>> that followed a strict waterfall model.
>> In a waterfall model you start with requirements. And you don't write
>> a line of code until requirements are 100% done and complete and signed
>> off. Once the requirements are done. They don't change. Then, and only
>> then you get to do design. You are still not writing any code. when
>> design is 100% complete, you move to implementation. If you're not 
>> familiar with this approach I can tell you it's a PITA. But it has its 
>> advantages: a requirements defect found late in the game ( in 
>> verification for example ) can cost 50-200X more to fix than if it was
>> fixed in the requirements phase. This holds especially true for embedded
>> software.
>> So what's the result if you don't use a waterfall model in
>> hardware development. Whats the cost if you find a requirements defect 
>> or a design defect ( glamo? )when you do that prototype run? 50K 
>> minimum, plus a redesign. Take the appendix out--perform a glamoectomy?
>> ask Werner about the design implications of that on WIFI. And
>> see my comments below about design and diving into peanut butter.
>>
>> That means this: if you are designing hardware or doing hardware system 
>> integration you would be well advised to follow a waterfall model. Any 
>> other approach is prone to excessive delays and costly recamps. Just 
>> read the list and see the number of people who are suggesting 
>> implementations for a new GTA03 design. The rush to implementation-- use 
>> this processor.. no use that processor, camera or no camera, resistive 
>> or capacitive, keyboard or touch.-- ALL signs to me of a lack of 
>> appreciation for the complexity and cost involved in doing hardware. I 
>> got a hammer your problem must be a nail. I'll give you
>> another example. During the course of many discussion about GTA03 and 
>> GTA04 both here and inside OM, both before and after the demise of GTA03
>> I see a pattern of discussion and problem solving that is, in my mind, 
>> part of the problem. Those discussions go like this: "what if we take the
>> GTA03 and stick it in the 02 case?" which leads to "but where will the 
>> camera go?" which leads to "do we really need a camera?" and so time
>> and energy is spent on this "solution" In the end, marketing looks at 
>> that and says "who took the fucking camera out!" that's not an actual 
>> example, but you get the idea.
>>
>> The bottom line is this. To do a GTA03 right means starting with 
>> requirements. 100% complete requirements. set in stone... or quick 
>> setting cement. We had a couple of sayings in the jet fighter business.
>> Design is like diving into a swimming pool of peanut butter. You better
>> pick your landing zone right because there not much ability to swim 
>> around after you hit. And also, this: "engineers almost never make 
>> mistakes, the guys who set requirements do."
>>
>>
>>> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
>> In one sense this is trivally true. hardware development is
>> inherently collaborative. But I suppose you mean is it possible
>> to do it in an open fashion. It maybe. But if the requirements process
>> and design process is not rigorous and well defined you end up
>> with expensive implementation problems. And if you don't have team 
>> consensus, then it's very problematic. Forking software is easy.
>> Forking hardware is forking hard. The best example I can use is
>> forking ASIC design. You can do a big chip with lots of functionality
>> and then fork off 'defeatured' versions, but that forking needs to
>> be designed in.and it may come with a cost. the same holds true
>> for modular hardware designs. what's easy with lego blocks aint so
>> trivial when it comes to EE design.
>>
>>
>>> There are many hobby projects around in the net. These are really not  
>>> at a level as OpenMoko or in
>>> general a device such as a mobile phone, but what is if we could get  
>>> preproduced components such
>>> as the gsm 'plugin board'?
>> The OM designs all used "modules" for GSM and modules for things like
>> WIFI and BT as opposed to "down" designs or chips on PCBs. The diffculty
>> is not in finding components or modules and system level design is 
>> fairly straight forward. The real difficulties come in areas like RF
>> design ( a black art of sorts) and in the marriage of mechanical and EE.
>>> I mean, if I am a crack in developing gsm stuff, but don't like to buy  
>>> a complete phone for it, I probably buy
>>> the gsm module, say, with an interface connectable anyhow to a PC.
>> 3G dongle
>>> What I also think about, is why are there only PDF schematics available?
>> Well, we are looking at making the gerbers available under a licencing 
>> program. Stay tuned.
>>> I have only heared about the dash derivat of openmoko device. Is it  
>>> because there is only a PDF available?
>> No, we designed DASH electronics using Our existing design. As Sean
>> points out in his presentation, this project proved to be a distraction
>> from our main goals in that time period. Why? here's a solution for 
>> Dash, just take the existing design and make a few changes and recompile
>> the hardware!
>>> If it is possible to delegate hardware development tasks to the  
>>> comunity why isn't it done yet?
>> I'm in the process of exploring this with a new list. However, you
>> need to understand the process:
>> 1. requirements: the community can help here.
>> 2. Design: the community can help here:
>> 3. Implementation: Build EVT boards. This is where you need money and
>>     infrastructure. So, if the community wanted to Build and buy EVT 
>> boards ( I actually suggested this to Sean) then that could happen.
>> But an EVT board costs about 2 grand. I suppose if we had 20+ volunteers
>> who wanted to do this, it could be done. But remember EVT boards often
>> end up not working. Build 20, get 15.
>>
>> I'm not saying that it's impossible, but everyone who gets involved 
>> needs to know the mountain in front of them.
>>
>> And we havent even discussed ID. ID could be developed by the community.
>> In fact, we had planned a design contest for alternative cases for the 
>> GTA03. With volunteer efforts you could probably make it through a first
>> pass at ID and mech. here again samples are costly. early samples are 
>> done on CNC machines, later rapid prototypes (25K) and hard tooling
>> is well over 100K.
>>
>>> So when also open up the real circuit 'source code' - the real CAD  
>>> files, would it give the real goal - the open mobile phone - a real  
>>> push?
>> I'm looking into that. There is no fundamental objection to that. the 
>> terms and conditions are what I need to examine. Also, many people 
>> question the importance of gerbers. If you just want to copy the design
>> as is and send those files out to have a PCB built, then having the 
>> gerbers saves you the time of reverse engineering from the schematics
>> or reverse engineering from the actual board ( seen that done) but 
>> gerbers dont give you a theory of operations and design changes to a 
>> design you dont understand can have knock on effects: see the glamoectomy.
>>> Then if there are some results that have a chance to become a real  
>>> 'next' phone, a company like openmoko could
>>> think about producing some prototypes. So the company has a reduced  
>>> cost.
>>   without looking at actual numbers I would say 20% of the cost is
>>   in requirements and design and 80% in implementation, verification,
>> production, test, and maintennce. Again, we are thinking down some 
>> similar paths, so your comments are welcomed.
>>> There is one really good electronics project: The internal debug board.
>>   Ya I love werners stuff. Now, for a while, the GTA03 was going to have 
>> an internal debug board. The words flew kinda hot and heavy on that one.
>> less than 50% of all buyers get a debug board. Should we include 
>> internal debug capability on every GTA03? I won't revisit that debate here.
>>> This is only one sample that there are hardware developers out there.  
>>> Give them more food.
>> That's what were are going to try to do.
>>> My education in 1987 till 1990, was electronics engineering. I do not  
>>> any more practice in that area. So I stuck in some conflict
>>> not to start any electronics projects, because I have the glue the  
>>> project will be a one man show and keep a hobby project. But
>>> if there would be a collerative project I could join, I propably  
>>> would. And may it only getting more practice in laying out PCB boards
>>> whose schematics other developers have created.
>> Ok.. here comes a question. What layout tools? are there open source 
>> layout tools ( one hopes) and if not then what tool do we pick?
>> Essentially, you are pitching the idea I'm going to try to get going.
>> I'll make an announcement about it shortly, but my plate is pretty full
>> and I can only volunteer a couple hours a day to help organize and guide it.
>>> If that would be possible, then it would be a real open phone :-)
>>>
>>> End of arsing around. Is there a potential to create a hardware  
>>> development comunity?
>>   I think so. no harm in trying.
>>> To avoid that each individual will start its own variant we could  
>>> using a vote system before any direction is done, say wich formfactor is
>>> used, for sample.
>>   The voting approach will be discussed. Basically I dont believe in 
>> letting idiots vote. You dont want me voting on your layout and 
>> convincing everyone with my superb rhetoric that your 8 layer design
>> can be accomplished in 2 layers.. you get my drift. The community will
>> have to have SME ( subject matter experts) They will have to have some
>> undemocratic powers. my view at least.
>>> Sean: This would propably help continue GTA3 development. The risk to  
>>> produce it, would only invest some inspections of a new design
>>> and doing integration tests. And even this could be donated.
>> I asked sean the same. We are going to set up a mailing list at 
>> openmoko.org to get this started.
>>> Dont let a great idea die. Delegate hardware development activities if  
>>> possible. We are a comunity.
>>>
>>> Lothar
>>>
>>> Am 05.04.2009 um 11:18 schrieb Johny Tenfinger:
>>>
>>>> It seems like "plan B" doesn't share anything with phones and...  
>>>> Linux ;(
>>>>
>>>> 2009/4/5, David Reyes Samblas Martinez <david at tuxbrain.com>:
>>>>> only add that replies are quite unfair to a any free project whatever
>>>>> it succeed or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2009/4/5 David Reyes Samblas Martinez <david at tuxbrain.com>:
>>>>>> Yes very sad wrong titular "No More OpenMoko Phone " and very
>>>>>> discorageus comentaries :(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2009/4/5 robert lazarski <robertlazarski at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>> http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/04/228240&art_pos=2
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not pretty. As someone who has been lurking on this list for 1 1/2
>>>>>>> years, patiently waiting to buy a phone but trying to avoid buzz  
>>>>>>> fix
>>>>>>> parties if I could help it, I suppose its not surprising. On the
>>>>>>> positive side, I'll stick around to see what happens with plan b  
>>>>>>> - if
>>>>>>> that is there's anyone left to develop it and its not vapor. I like
>>>>>>> the idea of Freerunner, just not its execution. I'd like to  
>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>> though and see a turn around. And yes, I'll probably buy one that
>>>>>>> ships without hardware problems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - R
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>>>>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
>>>>>> http://www.tuxbrain.com
>>>>>> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
>>>>>> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
>>>>>> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
>>>>> http://www.tuxbrain.com
>>>>> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
>>>>> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
>>>>> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>>
>>> -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
>>> Lothar Behrens
>>> Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
>>> 73252 Lenningen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 



From tanuva at googlemail.com  Mon Apr  6 01:18:18 2009
From: tanuva at googlemail.com (Marcel)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 01:18:18 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <49D939E8.9020908@openmoko.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D92599.5000303@dfki.de> <49D939E8.9020908@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <200904060118.18439.tanuva@gmail.com>

That's the point - I  was away from home the last week only and kinda shocked 
found the om-community and debian-user-german folders with 320 mails each 
when I came back which is nothing compared to your 1800 mails... :)

--
Marcel

Am Monday 06 April 2009 01:08:24 schrieb Steve Mosher:
> thanks. During march I got so effin buried in other stuff that my
> community posting went to hell. I sat there looking at my community
> inbox grow and grow. And I thought "I rather open my cell phone bill
> than plow through 1800 community mails" but in the end you pay your cell
> phone bill and plow through those mails. As long as I keep the inbox
> empty every day, its a joy to read and respond.
>
> Gunnar AAstrand Grimnes wrote:
> > Nice posts Steve! This is what a community oriented company works like!
> > Frequent, on-time, interesting and well-written emails from the inside!
> >
> > Keep it up!
> >
> > - Gunnar
> >
> > Steve Mosher wrote:
> >> Good comments All.
> >>
> >> Let me inline some answers/explanations.
> >>
> >> Lothar Behrens wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I am mostly reading and sometime writing here. If it was useful or
> >>> useless - I don't know. But anyway.
> >>>
> >>> Let me arse around with some stupid ideas :-)
> >>>
> >>> What is a open phone?
> >>>
> >>> Is it only open source software or is it also open hardware?
> >>>
> >>> If software could be developed virtually at any place and from any
> >>> person, why don't we do the same for
> >>> hardware?
> >>>
> >>> Ok I cannot buy expensive equipment to test hardware that I may have
> >>> developed, but I virtually could
> >>> develop hardware. But many developers at one subject could spend money
> >>> for a rent to let one of the
> >>> team do outstanding tests.
> >>
> >>   At the begining of Sean's presentation you will see two slides:
> >>   1. a picture of Steve Ballmer ( the evil empire)
> >>   2. A picture of paul Otilinni ( intel)
> >>
> >>   And the point sean made about this was as follows; If a 15 year old
> >> kid   tells ballmer that he has developed a technology that will disrupt
> >> microsofts business, Ballmer would do well to listen to him. Why?
> >> because with a computer and a compiler it is possible to disrupt their
> >> business or at least make there lives uncomfortable. Long ago back in
> >> 1994 before MS had any 3D api in windows there were three small UK
> >> companies that had 3D apis for the desktop: argonaut; Rendermorphics;
> >> and Criterion ( i worked there). These were really very small companies
> >> and what we did was keep gamers in DOS, while MS wanted to move gaming
> >> to windows. We disrupted their plans to move important apps into DOS.
> >> So they paid attention to us. I remember sitting with Alex st John
> >> and eric engstrom as they discussed what was originally called the
> >> "manhatten project" later to be directX. And the phrase disruptive
> >> technologies came up over and over again. One guy even had a folder on
> >> his desktop labeled disruptive technologies. In the end, MS
> >> aquired rendermorphics and it became Direct3D  The point: in the
> >> software world, a kid and an idea is  potentially a powerful force. The
> >> history of this is covered in this book:
> >>
> >> Drummond, Michael (November 2000). Renegades of the Empire: How Three
> >> Software Warriors Started a Revolution Behind the Walls of Fortress
> >> Microsoft. California: Three Rivers Press. ISBN 978-0609807453. Covers
> >> the early years of DirectX development within Microsoft, including the
> >> acquisition of RenderMorphics.
> >>
> >> The bottom line on software is this: the business of software is easy
> >> to disrupt because the barriers to entry ( the cost of tools) is
> >> comparatively low.
> >>
> >> Now, lets look at hardware. If that same 15 year kid came to Paul
> >> Otillini and said he had technology that would disrupt Intels business
> >> what would paul do. He'd ask the kid who his investors were? ask what
> >> EDA tools did he use? Synopsis? did he have a cycle accurate C-SIM of
> >> the chip? Who was his fab?  was he planning an ASIC flow or COT flow
> >> for the chip, what tools did they use for floor planning, routing etc.
> >> The cost of these tools and the cost of proving something in silicon
> >> are in the millions of dollars. Hardware is hard. The barriers to entry
> >> are huge, not only IP barriers but sheer cost.
> >>
> >>
> >> So, Sean's basic point in those first two slides is that
> >> entering/disrupting the software business is orders of magnitude
> >> easier than entering the hardware business.
> >>
> >> This of course is an extreme comparison, used however to make a
> >> point. We should be on guard against notions and attitudes that
> >> characterize the hardware business as easy. At OM we entered the
> >> hardware business at the system level. Not designing chips of course,
> >> but one level up from that: designing
> >> hardware systems. Here too, however, you see costs and risks that
> >> form barriers to entry. For example, the test lab we maintain for
> >> testing phones has 5Million dollars of equipment. A prototype
> >> run of an evaluation board can cost 50K USD. 20 phones: 50K.
> >>
> >> I use this analogy. You write your code in a series of units.
> >> you unit test them. Then you do your first integration.
> >> You set up your make files and I charge you 50K to hit return. would you
> >> hit the compile button?
> >>
> >> We've all sat there and said, just compile it, see if works. That's
> >> easy in software. In Sean's presentation you'll see a slide.
> >> "gcc GTA02v5  doesnt work" what that means is this. There are perhaps
> >> some unconcious attitudes people have carried over from the software
> >> world that will jump up and bite them when they start to work in the
> >> hardware world. I'll use another metaphor. Building hardware  requires
> >> a "waterfall" design process, at least in my experience. In the software
> >> world, outside of DOD and NASA, we'd be hard pressed to find projects
> >> that followed a strict waterfall model.
> >> In a waterfall model you start with requirements. And you don't write
> >> a line of code until requirements are 100% done and complete and signed
> >> off. Once the requirements are done. They don't change. Then, and only
> >> then you get to do design. You are still not writing any code. when
> >> design is 100% complete, you move to implementation. If you're not
> >> familiar with this approach I can tell you it's a PITA. But it has its
> >> advantages: a requirements defect found late in the game ( in
> >> verification for example ) can cost 50-200X more to fix than if it was
> >> fixed in the requirements phase. This holds especially true for embedded
> >> software.
> >> So what's the result if you don't use a waterfall model in
> >> hardware development. Whats the cost if you find a requirements defect
> >> or a design defect ( glamo? )when you do that prototype run? 50K
> >> minimum, plus a redesign. Take the appendix out--perform a glamoectomy?
> >> ask Werner about the design implications of that on WIFI. And
> >> see my comments below about design and diving into peanut butter.
> >>
> >> That means this: if you are designing hardware or doing hardware system
> >> integration you would be well advised to follow a waterfall model. Any
> >> other approach is prone to excessive delays and costly recamps. Just
> >> read the list and see the number of people who are suggesting
> >> implementations for a new GTA03 design. The rush to implementation-- use
> >> this processor.. no use that processor, camera or no camera, resistive
> >> or capacitive, keyboard or touch.-- ALL signs to me of a lack of
> >> appreciation for the complexity and cost involved in doing hardware. I
> >> got a hammer your problem must be a nail. I'll give you
> >> another example. During the course of many discussion about GTA03 and
> >> GTA04 both here and inside OM, both before and after the demise of GTA03
> >> I see a pattern of discussion and problem solving that is, in my mind,
> >> part of the problem. Those discussions go like this: "what if we take
> >> the GTA03 and stick it in the 02 case?" which leads to "but where will
> >> the camera go?" which leads to "do we really need a camera?" and so time
> >> and energy is spent on this "solution" In the end, marketing looks at
> >> that and says "who took the fucking camera out!" that's not an actual
> >> example, but you get the idea.
> >>
> >> The bottom line is this. To do a GTA03 right means starting with
> >> requirements. 100% complete requirements. set in stone... or quick
> >> setting cement. We had a couple of sayings in the jet fighter business.
> >> Design is like diving into a swimming pool of peanut butter. You better
> >> pick your landing zone right because there not much ability to swim
> >> around after you hit. And also, this: "engineers almost never make
> >> mistakes, the guys who set requirements do."
> >>
> >>> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
> >>
> >> In one sense this is trivally true. hardware development is
> >> inherently collaborative. But I suppose you mean is it possible
> >> to do it in an open fashion. It maybe. But if the requirements process
> >> and design process is not rigorous and well defined you end up
> >> with expensive implementation problems. And if you don't have team
> >> consensus, then it's very problematic. Forking software is easy.
> >> Forking hardware is forking hard. The best example I can use is
> >> forking ASIC design. You can do a big chip with lots of functionality
> >> and then fork off 'defeatured' versions, but that forking needs to
> >> be designed in.and it may come with a cost. the same holds true
> >> for modular hardware designs. what's easy with lego blocks aint so
> >> trivial when it comes to EE design.
> >>
> >>> There are many hobby projects around in the net. These are really not
> >>> at a level as OpenMoko or in
> >>> general a device such as a mobile phone, but what is if we could get
> >>> preproduced components such
> >>> as the gsm 'plugin board'?
> >>
> >> The OM designs all used "modules" for GSM and modules for things like
> >> WIFI and BT as opposed to "down" designs or chips on PCBs. The diffculty
> >> is not in finding components or modules and system level design is
> >> fairly straight forward. The real difficulties come in areas like RF
> >> design ( a black art of sorts) and in the marriage of mechanical and EE.
> >>
> >>> I mean, if I am a crack in developing gsm stuff, but don't like to buy
> >>> a complete phone for it, I probably buy
> >>> the gsm module, say, with an interface connectable anyhow to a PC.
> >>
> >> 3G dongle
> >>
> >>> What I also think about, is why are there only PDF schematics
> >>> available?
> >>
> >> Well, we are looking at making the gerbers available under a licencing
> >> program. Stay tuned.
> >>
> >>> I have only heared about the dash derivat of openmoko device. Is it
> >>> because there is only a PDF available?
> >>
> >> No, we designed DASH electronics using Our existing design. As Sean
> >> points out in his presentation, this project proved to be a distraction
> >> from our main goals in that time period. Why? here's a solution for
> >> Dash, just take the existing design and make a few changes and recompile
> >> the hardware!
> >>
> >>> If it is possible to delegate hardware development tasks to the
> >>> comunity why isn't it done yet?
> >>
> >> I'm in the process of exploring this with a new list. However, you
> >> need to understand the process:
> >> 1. requirements: the community can help here.
> >> 2. Design: the community can help here:
> >> 3. Implementation: Build EVT boards. This is where you need money and
> >>     infrastructure. So, if the community wanted to Build and buy EVT
> >> boards ( I actually suggested this to Sean) then that could happen.
> >> But an EVT board costs about 2 grand. I suppose if we had 20+ volunteers
> >> who wanted to do this, it could be done. But remember EVT boards often
> >> end up not working. Build 20, get 15.
> >>
> >> I'm not saying that it's impossible, but everyone who gets involved
> >> needs to know the mountain in front of them.
> >>
> >> And we havent even discussed ID. ID could be developed by the community.
> >> In fact, we had planned a design contest for alternative cases for the
> >> GTA03. With volunteer efforts you could probably make it through a first
> >> pass at ID and mech. here again samples are costly. early samples are
> >> done on CNC machines, later rapid prototypes (25K) and hard tooling
> >> is well over 100K.
> >>
> >>> So when also open up the real circuit 'source code' - the real CAD
> >>> files, would it give the real goal - the open mobile phone - a real
> >>> push?
> >>
> >> I'm looking into that. There is no fundamental objection to that. the
> >> terms and conditions are what I need to examine. Also, many people
> >> question the importance of gerbers. If you just want to copy the design
> >> as is and send those files out to have a PCB built, then having the
> >> gerbers saves you the time of reverse engineering from the schematics
> >> or reverse engineering from the actual board ( seen that done) but
> >> gerbers dont give you a theory of operations and design changes to a
> >> design you dont understand can have knock on effects: see the
> >> glamoectomy.
> >>
> >>> Then if there are some results that have a chance to become a real
> >>> 'next' phone, a company like openmoko could
> >>> think about producing some prototypes. So the company has a reduced
> >>> cost.
> >>
> >>   without looking at actual numbers I would say 20% of the cost is
> >>   in requirements and design and 80% in implementation, verification,
> >> production, test, and maintennce. Again, we are thinking down some
> >> similar paths, so your comments are welcomed.
> >>
> >>> There is one really good electronics project: The internal debug board.
> >>
> >>   Ya I love werners stuff. Now, for a while, the GTA03 was going to have
> >> an internal debug board. The words flew kinda hot and heavy on that one.
> >> less than 50% of all buyers get a debug board. Should we include
> >> internal debug capability on every GTA03? I won't revisit that debate
> >> here.
> >>
> >>> This is only one sample that there are hardware developers out there.
> >>> Give them more food.
> >>
> >> That's what were are going to try to do.
> >>
> >>> My education in 1987 till 1990, was electronics engineering. I do not
> >>> any more practice in that area. So I stuck in some conflict
> >>> not to start any electronics projects, because I have the glue the
> >>> project will be a one man show and keep a hobby project. But
> >>> if there would be a collerative project I could join, I propably
> >>> would. And may it only getting more practice in laying out PCB boards
> >>> whose schematics other developers have created.
> >>
> >> Ok.. here comes a question. What layout tools? are there open source
> >> layout tools ( one hopes) and if not then what tool do we pick?
> >> Essentially, you are pitching the idea I'm going to try to get going.
> >> I'll make an announcement about it shortly, but my plate is pretty full
> >> and I can only volunteer a couple hours a day to help organize and guide
> >> it.
> >>
> >>> If that would be possible, then it would be a real open phone :-)
> >>>
> >>> End of arsing around. Is there a potential to create a hardware
> >>> development comunity?
> >>
> >>   I think so. no harm in trying.
> >>
> >>> To avoid that each individual will start its own variant we could
> >>> using a vote system before any direction is done, say wich formfactor
> >>> is used, for sample.
> >>
> >>   The voting approach will be discussed. Basically I dont believe in
> >> letting idiots vote. You dont want me voting on your layout and
> >> convincing everyone with my superb rhetoric that your 8 layer design
> >> can be accomplished in 2 layers.. you get my drift. The community will
> >> have to have SME ( subject matter experts) They will have to have some
> >> undemocratic powers. my view at least.
> >>
> >>> Sean: This would propably help continue GTA3 development. The risk to
> >>> produce it, would only invest some inspections of a new design
> >>> and doing integration tests. And even this could be donated.
> >>
> >> I asked sean the same. We are going to set up a mailing list at
> >> openmoko.org to get this started.
> >>
> >>> Dont let a great idea die. Delegate hardware development activities if
> >>> possible. We are a comunity.
> >>>
> >>> Lothar
> >>>
> >>> Am 05.04.2009 um 11:18 schrieb Johny Tenfinger:
> >>>> It seems like "plan B" doesn't share anything with phones and...
> >>>> Linux ;(
> >>>>
> >>>> 2009/4/5, David Reyes Samblas Martinez <david at tuxbrain.com>:
> >>>>> only add that replies are quite unfair to a any free project whatever
> >>>>> it succeed or not.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2009/4/5 David Reyes Samblas Martinez <david at tuxbrain.com>:
> >>>>>> Yes very sad wrong titular "No More OpenMoko Phone " and very
> >>>>>> discorageus comentaries :(
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2009/4/5 robert lazarski <robertlazarski at gmail.com>:
> >>>>>>> http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/04/228240&art_pos=2
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Not pretty. As someone who has been lurking on this list for 1 1/2
> >>>>>>> years, patiently waiting to buy a phone but trying to avoid buzz
> >>>>>>> fix
> >>>>>>> parties if I could help it, I suppose its not surprising. On the
> >>>>>>> positive side, I'll stick around to see what happens with plan b
> >>>>>>> - if
> >>>>>>> that is there's anyone left to develop it and its not vapor. I like
> >>>>>>> the idea of Freerunner, just not its execution. I'd like to
> >>>>>>> surprised
> >>>>>>> though and see a turn around. And yes, I'll probably buy one that
> >>>>>>> ships without hardware problems.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - R
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Openmoko community mailing list
> >>>>>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
> >>>>>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
> >>>>>> http://www.tuxbrain.com
> >>>>>> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
> >>>>>> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
> >>>>>> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
> >>>>> http://www.tuxbrain.com
> >>>>> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
> >>>>> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
> >>>>> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Openmoko community mailing list
> >>>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
> >>>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Openmoko community mailing list
> >>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
> >>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >>>
> >>> -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
> >>> Lothar Behrens
> >>> Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
> >>> 73252 Lenningen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Openmoko community mailing list
> >>> community at lists.openmoko.org
> >>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Openmoko community mailing list
> >> community at lists.openmoko.org
> >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community





From robin.paulson at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 01:22:12 2009
From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 11:22:12 +1200
Subject: Buying a Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <49D8E00E.9040600@dfki.de>
References: <49AC7C33.50000@gmx.at> <goitfh$h5u$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<49ADC6C7.9030701@openmoko.com>
	<bff0f0570904031000r788cdf70qa4e222c80ac8ddfe@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D7D21A.6080001@openmoko.com>
	<bff0f0570904041515j5641358dmd3d786710b1a0c95@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D7ED4C.7000702@openmoko.com>
	<20090405105012.279d27b8@young-crunchbang> <49D8E00E.9040600@dfki.de>
Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904051622ge0851fcm901f00eb63e1c8a3@mail.gmail.com>

2009/4/6 Gunnar AAstrand Grimnes <gunnar.grimnes at dfki.de>:
> I'm going to be blunt here: No. If you do not want a phone but a cool
> linux gadget with wifi, get a nokia n810. Afaik it can do everything the
> openmoko does apart from GSM.

if you want a cool *open* linux gadget with wifi, get an open pandora

again, no gsm though



From lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de  Mon Apr  6 01:28:02 2009
From: lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de (Lothar Behrens)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 01:28:02 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <E1AD2CBF-84D5-4587-8741-CC4BD8F10980@lollisoft.de>


Am 05.04.2009 um 23:21 schrieb Steve Mosher:

> Good comments All.
>
> Let me inline some answers/explanations.
>
>

Snip

>>
>> My education in 1987 till 1990, was electronics engineering. I do not
>> any more practice in that area. So I stuck in some conflict
>> not to start any electronics projects, because I have the glue the
>> project will be a one man show and keep a hobby project. But
>> if there would be a collerative project I could join, I propably
>> would. And may it only getting more practice in laying out PCB boards
>> whose schematics other developers have created.
> Ok.. here comes a question. What layout tools? are there open source
> layout tools ( one hopes) and if not then what tool do we pick?

I mentioned KICAD (http://kicad.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/DE:Main_Page 
).
It is capable to handle up to 16 layers, has a basic autorouter  
engine, but also could
use an external one I think.

It is multiplatform (Windows, Linux, Mac OS X and probably others).  
There is a 6 layer
PCB board as a sample that is a video grabber.

As a plus, it could display boards in 3D and supports wings 3D models  
to be used for
the parts.

Also the schematics is organized in scheets and subsheets, so one  
could divide a project
in sub projects. The scheets therefore could get connectors to enable  
inter scheet connections.
(In my words :-)

I think the same would be possible if we design PCB components with  
prelayouted stuff, but this
is only an idea with the component as is in mind - why should it not  
possible to couble a component
with a layout except the interconnection wires.

To pick up the colerative aspect of PCB design, I could ask the dev  
team, if it is possible to add
a color scheme to show the differences in layout to be a helper to  
spot differences between versions.

>
> Essentially, you are pitching the idea I'm going to try to get going.
> I'll make an announcement about it shortly, but my plate is pretty  
> full
> and I can only volunteer a couple hours a day to help organize and  
> guide it.
>>
>> If that would be possible, then it would be a real open phone :-)
>>
>> End of arsing around. Is there a potential to create a hardware
>> development comunity?
>  I think so. no harm in trying.
>>
>> To avoid that each individual will start its own variant we could
>> using a vote system before any direction is done, say wich  
>> formfactor is
>> used, for sample.
>  The voting approach will be discussed. Basically I dont believe in
> letting idiots vote. You dont want me voting on your layout and
> convincing everyone with my superb rhetoric that your 8 layer design
> can be accomplished in 2 layers.. you get my drift. The community will
> have to have SME ( subject matter experts) They will have to have some
> undemocratic powers. my view at least.

My knowledge is a bit away (Eagle, HP UX DS ??), but I know, Ill do  
something wrong, if I used 8 layers
but these are 20% filled only each.

OTOH, some guides could be applied like this: This board is a  
candidate for two layers. Don't use more than 4.

I participated layouting in motor control circuits, backplanes for  
computer systems and also
computer systems (the Transputer processor).

I got more knowledge by often doing a review and do layouts in steps.  
First the power and block capacitors then
the group of data signals and then the remaining stuff.

Critical stuff is HF and that sould be a separate step. Keep versions.  
Also an assisting layout would be helpful, like this:
I do one signal I think how it should done, an you do the rest of this  
signals (bus).

That way you avoid the risk, someone forgots the capacity in the  
signals and do wire them in paralell, but shouldn't.
Also signal length is an issue, but that is an HF issue.

About the voting: When one makes his / her first try in layouting, the  
core team should not
spend much time on it. A layouter first should get points of trust,  
thus other layouter with
some more experience should / could review the work of less  
experienced layouters, but not vica versa.

I think, this funnel also will help in finding good layouters that may  
get payd later and is fair.

I know that a hobby electronics guy will have it harder to get points,  
but others with some background
and the willing to help is a help. The hobby electronics guy could  
learn from the more experienced.

Snip

The cost:

What I didn't know is the cost for, say, 20 phones. I know there is  
the cost for the
equipment and the staff at all, but compare prototype costs with that  
here:

http://www.eurocircuits.com/index.php/PCB-production-service-overview/PCB-proto-the-new-PCB-prototype-service-from-Eurocircuits.html
and
http://www.eurocircuits.com/index.php/Service-overview/Service-Overview.html

>
>>
>> Sean: This would propably help continue GTA3 development. The risk to
>> produce it, would only invest some inspections of a new design
>> and doing integration tests. And even this could be donated.
>
> I asked sean the same. We are going to set up a mailing list at
> openmoko.org to get this started.

We don't let the press in the glue we can't manage this. Beat them :-)

-- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
Lothar Behrens
Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
73252 Lenningen











From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 01:35:42 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 16:35:42 -0700
Subject: Buying a Freerunner
In-Reply-To: <200904060107.06673.tanuva@gmail.com>
References: <49AC7C33.50000@gmx.at> <200904051914.03220.joerg@openmoko.org>
	<49D9375D.6000000@openmoko.com>
	<200904060107.06673.tanuva@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D9404E.4050005@openmoko.com>

  Somewhere on the wiki is a place to log your non -problem.

  I suspect its due to one of two things, joerg and others chime in---

  The buzz is most prnounced at 900mhz. rf infects the lines heading 
into the mixer and you'll see a ripple on the mic lines coming out. This 
manefests itself as a buzz for the listener on the other end.
@1800 the buzz is less pronounced and @1900 you get no buzz( AFAIK)
so, if your cell tower is giving you 1900, no buzz.

The other explanation could be filtering on the landline. wild ass guess.

Somebody with an actuall EE degree can probably explain better or more 
accurately.

Marcel wrote:
> Just for the records (which possibly already contain this):
> I have a 02A5 (from the second batch which reached Germany) and had no buzz on 
> my two short test calls the last weeks, but they only went from the Neo to a 
> landline phone in the other room if that's relevant.
> 
> --
> Marcel
> 
> Am Monday 06 April 2009 00:57:33 schrieb Steve Mosher:
>>    not shipping with buzz fix yet.
>>
>>    but im slowly pushing forward
>>
>> Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
>>> Am So  5. April 2009 schrieb Gunnar AAstrand Grimnes:
>>>>> 1. The phone selling for 299 on the main site, do es it have the bug
>>>>> fix? or might I still have that problem?
>>>> From Steve recent email about getting the v7 through production I guess
>>>> not.
>>> Steve also mentioned as many as possible on stock A6 getting fixed at
>>> fab. So if I got that right we are shipping with buzzfix right now.
>>> /j



From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 01:37:52 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 16:37:52 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <200904060118.18439.tanuva@gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D92599.5000303@dfki.de> <49D939E8.9020908@openmoko.com>
	<200904060118.18439.tanuva@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D940D0.50107@openmoko.com>

thats the funny thing about inboxes and bills. If you ignore them
they dont go away, they just get bigger. There's a bunch of jokes here I 
refuse to make.

Marcel wrote:
> That's the point - I  was away from home the last week only and kinda shocked 
> found the om-community and debian-user-german folders with 320 mails each 
> when I came back which is nothing compared to your 1800 mails... :)
> 
> --
> Marcel
> 
> Am Monday 06 April 2009 01:08:24 schrieb Steve Mosher:
>> thanks. During march I got so effin buried in other stuff that my
>> community posting went to hell. I sat there looking at my community
>> inbox grow and grow. And I thought "I rather open my cell phone bill
>> than plow through 1800 community mails" but in the end you pay your cell
>> phone bill and plow through those mails. As long as I keep the inbox
>> empty every day, its a joy to read and respond.
>>
>> Gunnar AAstrand Grimnes wrote:
>>> Nice posts Steve! This is what a community oriented company works like!
>>> Frequent, on-time, interesting and well-written emails from the inside!
>>>
>>> Keep it up!
>>>
>>> - Gunnar
>>>
>>> Steve Mosher wrote:
>>>> Good comments All.
>>>>
>>>> Let me inline some answers/explanations.
>>>>
>>>> Lothar Behrens wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am mostly reading and sometime writing here. If it was useful or
>>>>> useless - I don't know. But anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me arse around with some stupid ideas :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> What is a open phone?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it only open source software or is it also open hardware?
>>>>>
>>>>> If software could be developed virtually at any place and from any
>>>>> person, why don't we do the same for
>>>>> hardware?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok I cannot buy expensive equipment to test hardware that I may have
>>>>> developed, but I virtually could
>>>>> develop hardware. But many developers at one subject could spend money
>>>>> for a rent to let one of the
>>>>> team do outstanding tests.
>>>>   At the begining of Sean's presentation you will see two slides:
>>>>   1. a picture of Steve Ballmer ( the evil empire)
>>>>   2. A picture of paul Otilinni ( intel)
>>>>
>>>>   And the point sean made about this was as follows; If a 15 year old
>>>> kid   tells ballmer that he has developed a technology that will disrupt
>>>> microsofts business, Ballmer would do well to listen to him. Why?
>>>> because with a computer and a compiler it is possible to disrupt their
>>>> business or at least make there lives uncomfortable. Long ago back in
>>>> 1994 before MS had any 3D api in windows there were three small UK
>>>> companies that had 3D apis for the desktop: argonaut; Rendermorphics;
>>>> and Criterion ( i worked there). These were really very small companies
>>>> and what we did was keep gamers in DOS, while MS wanted to move gaming
>>>> to windows. We disrupted their plans to move important apps into DOS.
>>>> So they paid attention to us. I remember sitting with Alex st John
>>>> and eric engstrom as they discussed what was originally called the
>>>> "manhatten project" later to be directX. And the phrase disruptive
>>>> technologies came up over and over again. One guy even had a folder on
>>>> his desktop labeled disruptive technologies. In the end, MS
>>>> aquired rendermorphics and it became Direct3D  The point: in the
>>>> software world, a kid and an idea is  potentially a powerful force. The
>>>> history of this is covered in this book:
>>>>
>>>> Drummond, Michael (November 2000). Renegades of the Empire: How Three
>>>> Software Warriors Started a Revolution Behind the Walls of Fortress
>>>> Microsoft. California: Three Rivers Press. ISBN 978-0609807453. Covers
>>>> the early years of DirectX development within Microsoft, including the
>>>> acquisition of RenderMorphics.
>>>>
>>>> The bottom line on software is this: the business of software is easy
>>>> to disrupt because the barriers to entry ( the cost of tools) is
>>>> comparatively low.
>>>>
>>>> Now, lets look at hardware. If that same 15 year kid came to Paul
>>>> Otillini and said he had technology that would disrupt Intels business
>>>> what would paul do. He'd ask the kid who his investors were? ask what
>>>> EDA tools did he use? Synopsis? did he have a cycle accurate C-SIM of
>>>> the chip? Who was his fab?  was he planning an ASIC flow or COT flow
>>>> for the chip, what tools did they use for floor planning, routing etc.
>>>> The cost of these tools and the cost of proving something in silicon
>>>> are in the millions of dollars. Hardware is hard. The barriers to entry
>>>> are huge, not only IP barriers but sheer cost.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, Sean's basic point in those first two slides is that
>>>> entering/disrupting the software business is orders of magnitude
>>>> easier than entering the hardware business.
>>>>
>>>> This of course is an extreme comparison, used however to make a
>>>> point. We should be on guard against notions and attitudes that
>>>> characterize the hardware business as easy. At OM we entered the
>>>> hardware business at the system level. Not designing chips of course,
>>>> but one level up from that: designing
>>>> hardware systems. Here too, however, you see costs and risks that
>>>> form barriers to entry. For example, the test lab we maintain for
>>>> testing phones has 5Million dollars of equipment. A prototype
>>>> run of an evaluation board can cost 50K USD. 20 phones: 50K.
>>>>
>>>> I use this analogy. You write your code in a series of units.
>>>> you unit test them. Then you do your first integration.
>>>> You set up your make files and I charge you 50K to hit return. would you
>>>> hit the compile button?
>>>>
>>>> We've all sat there and said, just compile it, see if works. That's
>>>> easy in software. In Sean's presentation you'll see a slide.
>>>> "gcc GTA02v5  doesnt work" what that means is this. There are perhaps
>>>> some unconcious attitudes people have carried over from the software
>>>> world that will jump up and bite them when they start to work in the
>>>> hardware world. I'll use another metaphor. Building hardware  requires
>>>> a "waterfall" design process, at least in my experience. In the software
>>>> world, outside of DOD and NASA, we'd be hard pressed to find projects
>>>> that followed a strict waterfall model.
>>>> In a waterfall model you start with requirements. And you don't write
>>>> a line of code until requirements are 100% done and complete and signed
>>>> off. Once the requirements are done. They don't change. Then, and only
>>>> then you get to do design. You are still not writing any code. when
>>>> design is 100% complete, you move to implementation. If you're not
>>>> familiar with this approach I can tell you it's a PITA. But it has its
>>>> advantages: a requirements defect found late in the game ( in
>>>> verification for example ) can cost 50-200X more to fix than if it was
>>>> fixed in the requirements phase. This holds especially true for embedded
>>>> software.
>>>> So what's the result if you don't use a waterfall model in
>>>> hardware development. Whats the cost if you find a requirements defect
>>>> or a design defect ( glamo? )when you do that prototype run? 50K
>>>> minimum, plus a redesign. Take the appendix out--perform a glamoectomy?
>>>> ask Werner about the design implications of that on WIFI. And
>>>> see my comments below about design and diving into peanut butter.
>>>>
>>>> That means this: if you are designing hardware or doing hardware system
>>>> integration you would be well advised to follow a waterfall model. Any
>>>> other approach is prone to excessive delays and costly recamps. Just
>>>> read the list and see the number of people who are suggesting
>>>> implementations for a new GTA03 design. The rush to implementation-- use
>>>> this processor.. no use that processor, camera or no camera, resistive
>>>> or capacitive, keyboard or touch.-- ALL signs to me of a lack of
>>>> appreciation for the complexity and cost involved in doing hardware. I
>>>> got a hammer your problem must be a nail. I'll give you
>>>> another example. During the course of many discussion about GTA03 and
>>>> GTA04 both here and inside OM, both before and after the demise of GTA03
>>>> I see a pattern of discussion and problem solving that is, in my mind,
>>>> part of the problem. Those discussions go like this: "what if we take
>>>> the GTA03 and stick it in the 02 case?" which leads to "but where will
>>>> the camera go?" which leads to "do we really need a camera?" and so time
>>>> and energy is spent on this "solution" In the end, marketing looks at
>>>> that and says "who took the fucking camera out!" that's not an actual
>>>> example, but you get the idea.
>>>>
>>>> The bottom line is this. To do a GTA03 right means starting with
>>>> requirements. 100% complete requirements. set in stone... or quick
>>>> setting cement. We had a couple of sayings in the jet fighter business.
>>>> Design is like diving into a swimming pool of peanut butter. You better
>>>> pick your landing zone right because there not much ability to swim
>>>> around after you hit. And also, this: "engineers almost never make
>>>> mistakes, the guys who set requirements do."
>>>>
>>>>> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
>>>> In one sense this is trivally true. hardware development is
>>>> inherently collaborative. But I suppose you mean is it possible
>>>> to do it in an open fashion. It maybe. But if the requirements process
>>>> and design process is not rigorous and well defined you end up
>>>> with expensive implementation problems. And if you don't have team
>>>> consensus, then it's very problematic. Forking software is easy.
>>>> Forking hardware is forking hard. The best example I can use is
>>>> forking ASIC design. You can do a big chip with lots of functionality
>>>> and then fork off 'defeatured' versions, but that forking needs to
>>>> be designed in.and it may come with a cost. the same holds true
>>>> for modular hardware designs. what's easy with lego blocks aint so
>>>> trivial when it comes to EE design.
>>>>
>>>>> There are many hobby projects around in the net. These are really not
>>>>> at a level as OpenMoko or in
>>>>> general a device such as a mobile phone, but what is if we could get
>>>>> preproduced components such
>>>>> as the gsm 'plugin board'?
>>>> The OM designs all used "modules" for GSM and modules for things like
>>>> WIFI and BT as opposed to "down" designs or chips on PCBs. The diffculty
>>>> is not in finding components or modules and system level design is
>>>> fairly straight forward. The real difficulties come in areas like RF
>>>> design ( a black art of sorts) and in the marriage of mechanical and EE.
>>>>
>>>>> I mean, if I am a crack in developing gsm stuff, but don't like to buy
>>>>> a complete phone for it, I probably buy
>>>>> the gsm module, say, with an interface connectable anyhow to a PC.
>>>> 3G dongle
>>>>
>>>>> What I also think about, is why are there only PDF schematics
>>>>> available?
>>>> Well, we are looking at making the gerbers available under a licencing
>>>> program. Stay tuned.
>>>>
>>>>> I have only heared about the dash derivat of openmoko device. Is it
>>>>> because there is only a PDF available?
>>>> No, we designed DASH electronics using Our existing design. As Sean
>>>> points out in his presentation, this project proved to be a distraction
>>>> from our main goals in that time period. Why? here's a solution for
>>>> Dash, just take the existing design and make a few changes and recompile
>>>> the hardware!
>>>>
>>>>> If it is possible to delegate hardware development tasks to the
>>>>> comunity why isn't it done yet?
>>>> I'm in the process of exploring this with a new list. However, you
>>>> need to understand the process:
>>>> 1. requirements: the community can help here.
>>>> 2. Design: the community can help here:
>>>> 3. Implementation: Build EVT boards. This is where you need money and
>>>>     infrastructure. So, if the community wanted to Build and buy EVT
>>>> boards ( I actually suggested this to Sean) then that could happen.
>>>> But an EVT board costs about 2 grand. I suppose if we had 20+ volunteers
>>>> who wanted to do this, it could be done. But remember EVT boards often
>>>> end up not working. Build 20, get 15.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not saying that it's impossible, but everyone who gets involved
>>>> needs to know the mountain in front of them.
>>>>
>>>> And we havent even discussed ID. ID could be developed by the community.
>>>> In fact, we had planned a design contest for alternative cases for the
>>>> GTA03. With volunteer efforts you could probably make it through a first
>>>> pass at ID and mech. here again samples are costly. early samples are
>>>> done on CNC machines, later rapid prototypes (25K) and hard tooling
>>>> is well over 100K.
>>>>
>>>>> So when also open up the real circuit 'source code' - the real CAD
>>>>> files, would it give the real goal - the open mobile phone - a real
>>>>> push?
>>>> I'm looking into that. There is no fundamental objection to that. the
>>>> terms and conditions are what I need to examine. Also, many people
>>>> question the importance of gerbers. If you just want to copy the design
>>>> as is and send those files out to have a PCB built, then having the
>>>> gerbers saves you the time of reverse engineering from the schematics
>>>> or reverse engineering from the actual board ( seen that done) but
>>>> gerbers dont give you a theory of operations and design changes to a
>>>> design you dont understand can have knock on effects: see the
>>>> glamoectomy.
>>>>
>>>>> Then if there are some results that have a chance to become a real
>>>>> 'next' phone, a company like openmoko could
>>>>> think about producing some prototypes. So the company has a reduced
>>>>> cost.
>>>>   without looking at actual numbers I would say 20% of the cost is
>>>>   in requirements and design and 80% in implementation, verification,
>>>> production, test, and maintennce. Again, we are thinking down some
>>>> similar paths, so your comments are welcomed.
>>>>
>>>>> There is one really good electronics project: The internal debug board.
>>>>   Ya I love werners stuff. Now, for a while, the GTA03 was going to have
>>>> an internal debug board. The words flew kinda hot and heavy on that one.
>>>> less than 50% of all buyers get a debug board. Should we include
>>>> internal debug capability on every GTA03? I won't revisit that debate
>>>> here.
>>>>
>>>>> This is only one sample that there are hardware developers out there.
>>>>> Give them more food.
>>>> That's what were are going to try to do.
>>>>
>>>>> My education in 1987 till 1990, was electronics engineering. I do not
>>>>> any more practice in that area. So I stuck in some conflict
>>>>> not to start any electronics projects, because I have the glue the
>>>>> project will be a one man show and keep a hobby project. But
>>>>> if there would be a collerative project I could join, I propably
>>>>> would. And may it only getting more practice in laying out PCB boards
>>>>> whose schematics other developers have created.
>>>> Ok.. here comes a question. What layout tools? are there open source
>>>> layout tools ( one hopes) and if not then what tool do we pick?
>>>> Essentially, you are pitching the idea I'm going to try to get going.
>>>> I'll make an announcement about it shortly, but my plate is pretty full
>>>> and I can only volunteer a couple hours a day to help organize and guide
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>>> If that would be possible, then it would be a real open phone :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> End of arsing around. Is there a potential to create a hardware
>>>>> development comunity?
>>>>   I think so. no harm in trying.
>>>>
>>>>> To avoid that each individual will start its own variant we could
>>>>> using a vote system before any direction is done, say wich formfactor
>>>>> is used, for sample.
>>>>   The voting approach will be discussed. Basically I dont believe in
>>>> letting idiots vote. You dont want me voting on your layout and
>>>> convincing everyone with my superb rhetoric that your 8 layer design
>>>> can be accomplished in 2 layers.. you get my drift. The community will
>>>> have to have SME ( subject matter experts) They will have to have some
>>>> undemocratic powers. my view at least.
>>>>
>>>>> Sean: This would propably help continue GTA3 development. The risk to
>>>>> produce it, would only invest some inspections of a new design
>>>>> and doing integration tests. And even this could be donated.
>>>> I asked sean the same. We are going to set up a mailing list at
>>>> openmoko.org to get this started.
>>>>
>>>>> Dont let a great idea die. Delegate hardware development activities if
>>>>> possible. We are a comunity.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lothar
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 05.04.2009 um 11:18 schrieb Johny Tenfinger:
>>>>>> It seems like "plan B" doesn't share anything with phones and...
>>>>>> Linux ;(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2009/4/5, David Reyes Samblas Martinez <david at tuxbrain.com>:
>>>>>>> only add that replies are quite unfair to a any free project whatever
>>>>>>> it succeed or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2009/4/5 David Reyes Samblas Martinez <david at tuxbrain.com>:
>>>>>>>> Yes very sad wrong titular "No More OpenMoko Phone " and very
>>>>>>>> discorageus comentaries :(
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2009/4/5 robert lazarski <robertlazarski at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>> http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/04/228240&art_pos=2
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not pretty. As someone who has been lurking on this list for 1 1/2
>>>>>>>>> years, patiently waiting to buy a phone but trying to avoid buzz
>>>>>>>>> fix
>>>>>>>>> parties if I could help it, I suppose its not surprising. On the
>>>>>>>>> positive side, I'll stick around to see what happens with plan b
>>>>>>>>> - if
>>>>>>>>> that is there's anyone left to develop it and its not vapor. I like
>>>>>>>>> the idea of Freerunner, just not its execution. I'd like to
>>>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>> though and see a turn around. And yes, I'll probably buy one that
>>>>>>>>> ships without hardware problems.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - R
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>>>>>>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
>>>>>>>> http://www.tuxbrain.com
>>>>>>>> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
>>>>>>>> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
>>>>>>>> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
>>>>>>> http://www.tuxbrain.com
>>>>>>> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
>>>>>>> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
>>>>>>> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>>>>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>>>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>>>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>>> -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
>>>>> Lothar Behrens
>>>>> Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
>>>>> 73252 Lenningen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> 



From aclearn at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Apr  6 02:28:05 2009
From: aclearn at yahoo.co.uk (Anthony Clearn)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 00:28:05 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Slashdotted
Message-ID: <755778.87166.qm@web26301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Perhaps one of the positives which could be taken from this is that it allows a rethink. One question in my mind was why the need to produce GTA03 when GTA02 was getting better? I hadn't time to follow GTA03 as like many people, I see, I have a fair few emails to read. I once heard someone say most businesses fail as they try to be perfect (something like the waterfall, I suppose). So could things move on with just a GTA02 (not forgetting GTA01, but concentrating on the latest product) or does the project really need 03 / plan B? I suppose having a camera, 3G, etc would have been good, but isn't the fact that the phone is open the big selling point? I know it is for me.


Regards, 
A.
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From lida_mail at 163.com  Mon Apr  6 02:29:19 2009
From: lida_mail at 163.com (Daniel.Li)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 08:29:19 +0800
Subject: Build shr failed, need help
Message-ID: <1238977759.1030.2.camel@daniel-laptop>

Dear List,

I'm building shr image, and found this error, see below. 
How can I fix it? Thanks

NOTE: Running task 3161 of 6837 (ID:
2877, /home/daniel/freerunner/shr/shr-testing/openembedded/packages/linux/linux-openmoko-2.6.28_git.bb, do_install)
NOTE: package linux-openmoko-2.6.28-2.6.28-oe1
+gitr34240a1c06ae36180dee695aa25bbae869b2aa26: started
NOTE: package linux-openmoko-2.6.28-2.6.28-oe1
+gitr34240a1c06ae36180dee695aa25bbae869b2aa26-r3: task do_install:
started
ERROR: function do_install failed
ERROR: see log
in /home/daniel/freerunner/shr/shr-testing/tmp/work/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.28-2.6.28-oe1+gitr34240a1c06ae36180dee695aa25bbae869b2aa26-r3/temp/log.do_install.20721
NOTE: Task
failed: /home/daniel/freerunner/shr/shr-testing/tmp/work/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.28-2.6.28-oe1+gitr34240a1c06ae36180dee695aa25bbae869b2aa26-r3/temp/log.do_install.20721
NOTE: package linux-openmoko-2.6.28-2.6.28-oe1
+gitr34240a1c06ae36180dee695aa25bbae869b2aa26-r3: task do_install:
failed
ERROR: TaskFailed event exception, aborting
NOTE: package linux-openmoko-2.6.28-2.6.28-oe1
+gitr34240a1c06ae36180dee695aa25bbae869b2aa26: failed
ERROR: Build
of /home/daniel/freerunner/shr/shr-testing/openembedded/packages/linux/linux-openmoko-2.6.28_git.bb do_install failed
ERROR: Task 2877
(/home/daniel/freerunner/shr/shr-testing/openembedded/packages/linux/linux-openmoko-2.6.28_git.bb, do_install) failed
NOTE: Tasks Summary: Attempted 3160 tasks of which 3160 didn't need to
be rerun and 1 failed.
ERROR:
'/home/daniel/freerunner/shr/shr-testing/openembedded/packages/linux/linux-openmoko-2.6.28_git.bb' failed
NOTE: build 200904060758: completed
make: *** [image] Error 1



/*
** error log
in /home/daniel/freerunner/shr/shr-testing/tmp/work/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.28-2.6.28-oe1+gitr34240a1c06ae36180dee695aa25bbae869b2aa26-r3/temp/log.do_install.20721  */
  INSTALL sound/soc/snd-soc-core.ko
  INSTALL sound/usb/snd-usb-audio.ko
  INSTALL sound/usb/snd-usb-lib.ko
make[1]: Leaving directory
`/home/daniel/freerunner/shr/shr-testing/tmp/work/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.28-2.6.28-oe1+gitr34240a1c06ae36180dee695aa25bbae869b2aa26-r3/git'
make[1]: Entering directory
`/home/daniel/freerunner/shr/shr-testing/tmp/work/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.28-2.6.28-oe1+gitr34240a1c06ae36180dee695aa25bbae869b2aa26-r3/git'

MKDIR   /home/daniel/freerunner/shr/shr-testing/tmp/work/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.28-2.6.28-oe1+gitr34240a1c06ae36180dee695aa25bbae869b2aa26-r3/image/lib/firmware/kaweth

INSTALL /home/daniel/freerunner/shr/shr-testing/tmp/work/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.28-2.6.28-oe1+gitr34240a1c06ae36180dee695aa25bbae869b2aa26-r3/image/lib/firmware/kaweth/new_code.bin
/home/daniel/freerunner/shr/shr-testing/tmp/staging/i686-linux/usr/bin/install-sh: ./-m0644 does not exist.
make[1]: ***
[/home/daniel/freerunner/shr/shr-testing/tmp/work/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.28-2.6.28-oe1+gitr34240a1c06ae36180dee695aa25bbae869b2aa26-r3/image/lib/firmware/kaweth/new_code.bin] Error 1


-- 
Daniel.Li <lida_mail at 163.com>
PALFocus (http://palfocus.oicp.net)





From tanuva at googlemail.com  Mon Apr  6 02:37:37 2009
From: tanuva at googlemail.com (Marcel)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 02:37:37 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <755778.87166.qm@web26301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <755778.87166.qm@web26301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200904060237.37432.tanuva@gmail.com>

Am Monday 06 April 2009 02:28:05 schrieb Anthony Clearn:
[...]
> but isn't the fact that the phone is open the big selling
> point? I know it is for me.

That's the selling point for us more-or-less nerds. But the average 
oh-the-iphone-has-so-nice-bling-bling-user cannot see the value an open phone 
has for us but sees that it has no camera. But he/she wants a camera, so the 
decision is done. This is of course simplistic and I love the iPhone on a 
different "layer", too, but it's the way I mostly see it.

--
Marcel



From ben at abcom.co.nz  Mon Apr  6 02:40:07 2009
From: ben at abcom.co.nz (Ben Wilson)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:40:07 +1200
Subject: Recommended GTA01 images?
In-Reply-To: <200904051353.05699.polz@aufbix.org>
References: <1238900351.12275.160.camel@phantom.hip>	<49D82842.6080902@abcom.co.nz>
	<200904051353.05699.polz@aufbix.org>
Message-ID: <49D94F67.2070509@abcom.co.nz>

Yeah. I gave up using the built in flash a while ago due to never having 
any free space.
I run the OS on the sdcard, plenty of room there.

Ben

polz wrote:
> On Sunday 05 April 2009 05:40:50 Ben Wilson wrote:
>   
>> try   shr-lite-image-om-gta01.jffs2   from
>> http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/om-gta01/
>>
>>     
> How did you get it to fit in the flash, along with gllin?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>   



From psonek2 at seznam.cz  Mon Apr  6 03:05:41 2009
From: psonek2 at seznam.cz (Radek Polak)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 03:05:41 +0200
Subject: [QtExtended] does anybody use matchbox keyboard?
In-Reply-To: <49D8B006.70305@lilik.it>
References: <49D8B006.70305@lilik.it>
Message-ID: <49D95565.4050204@seznam.cz>

leonardo at lilik.it wrote:

> Hi all,
> Does anybody use the matchbox keyboard on Qtextended? (the one with grey
> little letters unusable with your fingers?).

I am using it. I am surprised myself that i can type on it, but works
for me quite good. However i wouldnt mind if i had better keyboard :)
At least the backspace could be in place that is easier to hit.

My favourite keyboard was the one in SHR.

Radek



From robin.paulson at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 03:20:34 2009
From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:20:34 +1200
Subject: update to knjmokocalendar
Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904051820u27315f20x10ea235f1c322ed8@mail.gmail.com>

hi,
i see knjmokocalendar has been updated today. i try to run it and get:

/usr/bin/knjmokocalendar: line 3: ./knjmokocalendar.rb: Permission denied

it appears knjmokocalendar.rb is not executable. so, you might want to run:

chmod +x /opt/knjmokocalendar/knjmokocalendar.rb

before you can do anything

cheers



From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 03:35:04 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:35:04 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <E1AD2CBF-84D5-4587-8741-CC4BD8F10980@lollisoft.de>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com>
	<E1AD2CBF-84D5-4587-8741-CC4BD8F10980@lollisoft.de>
Message-ID: <49D95C48.8080707@openmoko.com>

Well,

  sean announced the mailing list at openexpo. also talked about our 
long term view. I read through your other comments below. Thanks.
On the Proto boards. PCB is just one component of the cost of a EVT 
board. I know with the Voodoo II I spent at least 1000 per board to get 
a 2 day turn back in 1998 or so. The difficulty with a cell phone PCB,
and the GTA03 in particular, was the small number of houses who could 
actually build the PCB, laser drilled, the 6410 BGA required a very 
specialized PCB, cant recall all the details.. hey Im marketing.
Plus components for a short run tend to be very expensive. Granted I 
didnt go over all the costs with a fine tooth comb. (task belongs to 
engineering) In any case I think with something like Dr. N approach and 
the one rattling inside my head
we could probably get through EVT with a volunteer effort. let me see 
about the progress on getting the list set up.

Lothar Behrens wrote:
> 
> Am 05.04.2009 um 23:21 schrieb Steve Mosher:
> 
>> Good comments All.
>>
>> Let me inline some answers/explanations.
>>
>>
> 
> Snip
> 
>>>
>>> My education in 1987 till 1990, was electronics engineering. I do not
>>> any more practice in that area. So I stuck in some conflict
>>> not to start any electronics projects, because I have the glue the
>>> project will be a one man show and keep a hobby project. But
>>> if there would be a collerative project I could join, I propably
>>> would. And may it only getting more practice in laying out PCB boards
>>> whose schematics other developers have created.
>> Ok.. here comes a question. What layout tools? are there open source
>> layout tools ( one hopes) and if not then what tool do we pick?
> 
> I mentioned KICAD 
> (http://kicad.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/DE:Main_Page).
> It is capable to handle up to 16 layers, has a basic autorouter engine, 
> but also could
> use an external one I think.
> 
> It is multiplatform (Windows, Linux, Mac OS X and probably others). 
> There is a 6 layer
> PCB board as a sample that is a video grabber.
> 
> As a plus, it could display boards in 3D and supports wings 3D models to 
> be used for
> the parts.
> 
> Also the schematics is organized in scheets and subsheets, so one could 
> divide a project
> in sub projects. The scheets therefore could get connectors to enable 
> inter scheet connections.
> (In my words :-)
> 
> I think the same would be possible if we design PCB components with 
> prelayouted stuff, but this
> is only an idea with the component as is in mind - why should it not 
> possible to couble a component
> with a layout except the interconnection wires.
> 
> To pick up the colerative aspect of PCB design, I could ask the dev 
> team, if it is possible to add
> a color scheme to show the differences in layout to be a helper to spot 
> differences between versions.
> 
>>
>> Essentially, you are pitching the idea I'm going to try to get going.
>> I'll make an announcement about it shortly, but my plate is pretty full
>> and I can only volunteer a couple hours a day to help organize and 
>> guide it.
>>>
>>> If that would be possible, then it would be a real open phone :-)
>>>
>>> End of arsing around. Is there a potential to create a hardware
>>> development comunity?
>>  I think so. no harm in trying.
>>>
>>> To avoid that each individual will start its own variant we could
>>> using a vote system before any direction is done, say wich formfactor is
>>> used, for sample.
>>  The voting approach will be discussed. Basically I dont believe in
>> letting idiots vote. You dont want me voting on your layout and
>> convincing everyone with my superb rhetoric that your 8 layer design
>> can be accomplished in 2 layers.. you get my drift. The community will
>> have to have SME ( subject matter experts) They will have to have some
>> undemocratic powers. my view at least.
> 
> My knowledge is a bit away (Eagle, HP UX DS ??), but I know, Ill do 
> something wrong, if I used 8 layers
> but these are 20% filled only each.
> 
> OTOH, some guides could be applied like this: This board is a candidate 
> for two layers. Don't use more than 4.
> 
> I participated layouting in motor control circuits, backplanes for 
> computer systems and also
> computer systems (the Transputer processor).
> 
> I got more knowledge by often doing a review and do layouts in steps. 
> First the power and block capacitors then
> the group of data signals and then the remaining stuff.
> 
> Critical stuff is HF and that sould be a separate step. Keep versions. 
> Also an assisting layout would be helpful, like this:
> I do one signal I think how it should done, an you do the rest of this 
> signals (bus).
> 
> That way you avoid the risk, someone forgots the capacity in the signals 
> and do wire them in paralell, but shouldn't.
> Also signal length is an issue, but that is an HF issue.
> 
> About the voting: When one makes his / her first try in layouting, the 
> core team should not
> spend much time on it. A layouter first should get points of trust, thus 
> other layouter with
> some more experience should / could review the work of less experienced 
> layouters, but not vica versa.
> 
> I think, this funnel also will help in finding good layouters that may 
> get payd later and is fair.
> 
> I know that a hobby electronics guy will have it harder to get points, 
> but others with some background
> and the willing to help is a help. The hobby electronics guy could learn 
> from the more experienced.
> 
> Snip
> 
> The cost:
> 
> What I didn't know is the cost for, say, 20 phones. I know there is the 
> cost for the
> equipment and the staff at all, but compare prototype costs with that here:
> 
> http://www.eurocircuits.com/index.php/PCB-production-service-overview/PCB-proto-the-new-PCB-prototype-service-from-Eurocircuits.html 
> 
> and
> http://www.eurocircuits.com/index.php/Service-overview/Service-Overview.html 
> 
> 
>>
>>>
>>> Sean: This would propably help continue GTA3 development. The risk to
>>> produce it, would only invest some inspections of a new design
>>> and doing integration tests. And even this could be donated.
>>
>> I asked sean the same. We are going to set up a mailing list at
>> openmoko.org to get this started.
> 
> We don't let the press in the glue we can't manage this. Beat them :-)
> 
> -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
> Lothar Behrens
> Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
> 73252 Lenningen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



From werner at openmoko.org  Mon Apr  6 03:58:35 2009
From: werner at openmoko.org (Werner Almesberger)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 22:58:35 -0300
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <20090406015835.GA21666@almesberger.net>

Steve Mosher wrote:
> hardware world. I'll use another metaphor. Building hardware  requires
> a "waterfall" design process, at least in my experience. In the software 
> world, outside of DOD and NASA, we'd be hard pressed to find projects
> that followed a strict waterfall model.

Hmm, I think one risk of having a "heavy" development process is
that everyone tries to cram all their pet ideas into the project
like there's no tomorrow. And yes, I have to plead guilty there
as well :-(

I think a useful compromise would be a rigid process from design
to prototype or product, but the ability to start such processes
in rapid succession.

A lot of problems in the GTA01/GTA02 design were only found after
they hit end-users. Instead of bickering for half a year about
buzz fixes, wouldn't it have been easier in the end if we had
just been able to start a new design, with the necessary changes,
but only them ?

This isn't of course something you just decide and it's done.
You have to design the company/organization around such an idea.
E.g., don't produce at a factory that could spit out a million of
units a week but that takes three months to get rolling.

> minimum, plus a redesign. Take the appendix out--perform a glamoectomy?
> ask Werner about the design implications of that on WIFI.

>From (painful) memory: Half a month of getting a straight answer
from the vendor whether the chip can do it, about two weeks of
figuring out how to best rearrange that whole software stack such
that the problem becomes solveable, a few days of implementation,
well above a month to find out why that perfect plan didn't work,
followed by a few more days of working around the silicon bugs
eventually discovered. Ah yes, and when it was done, it didn't get
used :-(

When assessing the complexity of a problem, we tend to see only
those few days of actual development, not those months of
unexpected consequences.

> The OM designs all used "modules" for GSM and modules for things like
> WIFI and BT as opposed to "down" designs or chips on PCBs. The diffculty
> is not in finding components or modules

Famous last words ;-) I'd humbly submit that it can be incredibly
painful to find certain components if you're not a really big
player. And sometimes, one has to use components that aren't even
designed for phones, which creates its own set of problems.

>   The voting approach will be discussed. Basically I dont believe in 
> letting idiots vote.

In Linux, we have the concept of "benevolent dictators" ;-)

Very nice and insightful post. Thanks !

- Werner



From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 04:07:06 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:07:06 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <755778.87166.qm@web26301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <755778.87166.qm@web26301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49D963CA.3060303@openmoko.com>

Thanks Anthony.

For the sake of everyone who hasnt read my posts on this
or seen the video of seans speech. Let me say that your position
is the one we settled on. spend our resources on the FR and then
fund a modest project: project B. Put the GTA03 on hold
and find a way to involve the community more in its development.

inlined below find an advanced copy of my official comments.
stuff I send to the press. As a side note on this, these official
comments grew out of posts I made here first. During sean's presentation
someone commented that our approach to open business was the most 
radical he had seen. It is. and it presents great challenges for all
of us.

Seans video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFuwhPXYxxI&feature=PlayList&p=96FB31DA6E4012DA&index=1

I'll have my video up in a bit, an interview.

Here's the advance copy of my comments to the press.


During the last week Openmoko has had two great events. First the 
Embedded System Conference, ESC) and second, the OpenExpo in Bern. Those 
events could not have been more well timed for us because we had two 
major announcements to make: a thrust into the embedded systems market 
and the announcement of a new device, not a phone but an entirely new 
open device.
The launch into the embedded systems market is a case of the market 
finding the manufacturer. We designed the FreeRunner as an open phone. 
After it launched we started to receive requests from customers we never 
dreamed existed: Innovators who wanted to change the case or add in 
additional hardware. People who wanted to resell the phone with their 
software added. The collective creativity outside the company, dwarfed 
the creativity within the company. Our customers truly are an army of 
Davids. To seize this opportunity we decided to open up our CAD files, 
and open up our schematics. That way these new-found markets can develop 
for themselves products that we don?t have the resources to develop. So, 
over the next few months you?ll see us make a more focused effort in 
this market space. As a platform for embedded development, nothing 
compares to the FreeRunner: Open schematics; Open CAD; Open hardware; 
Open software.
	At OpenExpo we had a keynote speech in the business track. This gave us 
the opportunity to explain some of the change in focus we?ve made in the 
past month. Our CEO Sean Moss-Pultz delivered the presentation and I?ll 
take some space here to explain in a bit more detail the background 
behind these exciting changes. Sean discussed three things:
1. Our successes.
2. Our mistakes.
3. Our challenges
It?s vitally important when addressing the challenges of the future to 
assess and understand your past success. Openmoko launched its first 
developer phone in July of 07 and the FreeRunner shipped in July of 08. 
Sales tripled. Not only did we build a phone; we built a company and 
distribution network in the process. We also helped others build their 
own businesses around the FreeRunner. Our takeaway lessons were as 
follows: Open Products can be successful in the marketplace; being Open 
multiplies everyone?s business opportunities. For our mistakes we 
identified these: Open Product design is very hard as there is a 
tendency to make too many changes. Our culture is not authoritarian. We 
also tended to view hardware with a ?software? mentality, as something 
that could be easily changed or patched.
Our challenge going forward is to seize the opportunity we see in the 
embedded space and push forward the cause of open hardware. And we had 
to make some choices about how to spend the balance of 2009. There were 
essentially three projects going on inside OpenMoko: ongoing support of 
FreeRunner; Development of a follow on phone, the GTA03; and development 
of project ?B?. From a resources standpoint we could pick any two. Given 
the traction we see in the embedded space and given our passionate 
commitment to current FreeRunner owners and developers it was easy to 
pick that project. Nine months after launching FreeRunner with 
tremendous support from the community the product is coming into its own 
with a diverse set of distributions that run on it, from android to 
debian.  Then comes the choice between project ?B? and the GTA03.
There were two paths:
A: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch GTA03
B: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and  launch project B.
We will talk more about project B in the coming months, but these 
salient facts guided our decisions:
1. GTA03 was in constant flux as a design.
2. GTA03 schedule was consequently always slipping.
3. The resources required for GTA03 are 3X those required for Project B.
4. OM doesn?t have 3X resources

So, we picked plan B. Focus on supporting the FreeRunner and launching 
the more modest project, project B. That decision entailed putting GTA03 
on hold and rethinking how we do that product and that business in a 
better way: learning from our mistakes and building on our success. It 
also meant restructuring engineering and sales and marketing.
Now comes the question, what about GTA03? how do we get there? And when? 
and what is it?
First, we attend to the issues that still remain with the FreeRunner. 
Second we complete project B. When we've done that, then we get to eat 
dessert. Essentially, we agreed with the case made by users on our 
community list. They asked us: ?How do expect us to buy a GTA03 when the 
FreeRunner is not yet consumer ready?? We also listened to our 
distribution partners. They wanted to know how they could continue to 
sell the FreeRunner when the GTA03 was ?just around the corner.? And 
finally, we listened to our engineers. Since all of our sales are to 
people who understand engineering, their opinion about market viability 
is very important to us.
All of those arguments said the GTA03 as defined made no sense. As it 
was defined, it is dead. So how do we get to a new GTA03? Two 
requirements: continue to improve the FreeRunner; deliver on project B. 
What is GTA03 and when do we get there? There are a number of 
independent volunteer efforts out working at defining the GTA03 and 
working at refining or revolutionizing the business model to make it 
possible. Going forward we are going to open those efforts entirely. Our 
community has consistently asked for a voice in the up-front design 
decisions, so we will build a mechanism to try to make that happen. 
Again, whenever we see a challenge or an opportunity our first reaction 
is to rely on our strength. The community. They have never let us down.
Specifically what can the community do to help with this challenge and 
seize the opportunities we are presented with?
1. Move FreeRunner code upstream.
2. Stay involved or get involved.
3. Continue work on applications and distributions
4. Buy a FreeRunner.
5. Get involved in GTA03 discussions. The mailing list will appear on 
Openmoko.org in the forthcoming days.



Anthony Clearn wrote:
> Perhaps one of the positives which could be taken from this is that it allows a rethink. One question in my mind was why the need to produce GTA03 when GTA02 was getting better? I hadn't time to follow GTA03 as like many people, I see, I have a fair few emails to read. I once heard someone say most businesses fail as they try to be perfect (something like the waterfall, I suppose). So could things move on with just a GTA02 (not forgetting GTA01, but concentrating on the latest product) or does the project really need 03 / plan B? I suppose having a camera, 3G, etc would have been good, but isn't the fact that the phone is open the big selling point? I know it is for me.
> 
> 
> Regards, 
> A.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



From billk at iinet.net.au  Mon Apr  6 04:13:39 2009
From: billk at iinet.net.au (W.Kenworthy)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:13:39 +0800
Subject: on recurring alarm and simulating a down
In-Reply-To: <87vdpjbdc2.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<200904040123.19827.joerg@openmoko.org>
	<40cd9ce40904040206s45d99e95n870fef4ee102fd5d@mail.gmail.com>
	<87vdpjbdc2.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
Message-ID: <1238984019.6939.6.camel@bunyip.localdomain>

On Sun, 2009-04-05 at 12:32 +0200, ?ukasz Pankowski wrote:
> kimaidou <kimaidou at gmail.com> writes:
...
> > Thanks anyway, great soft !
> 

When you do the rewrite, can you "lose" the 1..2..3..4.. thing! - or at
least make it an optional setting in favour of a large (red) single
button saying "STOP!"

Woke up this morning, and by the time I had fumbled and missed trying to
enter the digits because of bleary sleep filled eyes and no glasses, my
other half was awake and sympathetically saying "Can you please just
stop fiddling around and take the battery OUT!"

Otherwise its great on shr-testing - even wakes when its supposed to -
not like the alarm app thats the default.

BillK






From cchandel at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  6 04:14:48 2009
From: cchandel at yahoo.com (c_c)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 19:14:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <49D895AF.2020405@omoco.de>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<49D895AF.2020405@omoco.de>
Message-ID: <1238984088016-2591006.post@n2.nabble.com>


Hi,

Hi,
I get the following error when starting with shr testing:
intone: error while loading shared libraries: libecore_input.so.0:
cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

You'll probably need to upgrade to shr-unstable. Intone needs the newer releases of elementary (and enlightenment therefore).

 One check is to run the elementary tests application and see if the demos for sliders and genlists are available. If not - upgrade to shr-unstable.

-- 
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Intone-%280.20---alpha-release%29-Elementary-based-mplayer-frontend-tp2587826p2591006.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




From werner at openmoko.org  Mon Apr  6 04:15:50 2009
From: werner at openmoko.org (Werner Almesberger)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 23:15:50 -0300
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <E1AD2CBF-84D5-4587-8741-CC4BD8F10980@lollisoft.de>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com>
	<E1AD2CBF-84D5-4587-8741-CC4BD8F10980@lollisoft.de>
Message-ID: <20090406021550.GB21666@almesberger.net>

Lothar Behrens wrote:
> I mentioned KICAD (http://kicad.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/DE:Main_Page 

KiCad is probably the Open Source EDA system that's closest to
being up to the task. But I still wonder if it can really do it.

Don't get me wrong. I use KiCad for everything I do privately
and I even contributed a few small features. But then I only do
2 layers, no ground planes, no impedance-matched lines, etc.

For an open development process, using a freely available EDA
system would of course be an incredible boost. I just wonder if
we would really have the resources to build the phone and the
EDA system that can do it in parallel.

- Werner



From werner at openmoko.org  Mon Apr  6 04:59:16 2009
From: werner at openmoko.org (Werner Almesberger)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 23:59:16 -0300
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <200904060237.37432.tanuva@gmail.com>
References: <755778.87166.qm@web26301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<200904060237.37432.tanuva@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090406025915.GC21666@almesberger.net>

Marcel wrote:
> That's the selling point for us more-or-less nerds. But the average 
> oh-the-iphone-has-so-nice-bling-bling-user cannot see the value an open phone 
> has for us [...]

I think they see it, indirectly. If the openness attracts developers,
they build things. First they build things that excite only themselves
and their peers, i.e., other developers. But eventually, they build
things that also appeal to non-developers. And that's when the system
becomes interesting to the "(wo)man on the street".

Eventually also non-developers thus make the connection that "open"
is "good". They have to understand the underlying principles about as
much as anyone needs to understand differential equations to know
that a heavy object once released falls towards the ground.

Of course, that rarely stops us developers from trying to tell them
anyway, especially after a few drinks at a party ;-)

- Werner



From b0ef at esben-stien.name  Mon Apr  6 06:28:24 2009
From: b0ef at esben-stien.name (Esben Stien)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 06:28:24 +0200
Subject: Just Got Buzz Fixed
Message-ID: <87ocvaquc7.fsf@quasar.esben-stien.name>

Got my phone back, free of buzz;). 

Techie said it was a trivial matter; my cost was ca. 1000NOK, about
USD140. I live in Bergen, Norway, so my country is probably a lot more
expensive than other places;).

I'm smiling from ear to ear now;). 

By the way; to all people who don't expect a GTA03, 04 and 05..,
you're in denial;).

-- 
Esben Stien is b0ef at e     s      a             
         http://www. s     t    n m
          irc://irc.  b  -  i  .   e/%23contact
           sip:b0ef@   e     e 
           jid:b0ef@    n     n



From digitalpioneer at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 05:33:08 2009
From: digitalpioneer at gmail.com (The Digital Pioneer)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 22:33:08 -0500
Subject: Just Got Buzz Fixed
In-Reply-To: <87ocvaquc7.fsf@quasar.esben-stien.name>
References: <87ocvaquc7.fsf@quasar.esben-stien.name>
Message-ID: <ffce06340904052033j5fed4374yc9252c548dd6a5dd@mail.gmail.com>

Buzz was interesting for me... I have never had trouble with it before, but
then I took a trip to Tennessee, and I was told it was horrible. Once I got
back home, it was gone again. Weird.
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From kosa at piradio.org  Mon Apr  6 05:39:46 2009
From: kosa at piradio.org (Kosa)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 22:39:46 -0500
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <49D963CA.3060303@openmoko.com>
References: <755778.87166.qm@web26301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<49D963CA.3060303@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <49D97982.5070900@piradio.org>

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From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 07:22:16 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 22:22:16 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <20090406015835.GA21666@almesberger.net>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com>
	<20090406015835.GA21666@almesberger.net>
Message-ID: <49D99188.4090709@openmoko.com>

Hi buddy!

Werner Almesberger wrote:
> Steve Mosher wrote:
>> hardware world. I'll use another metaphor. Building hardware  requires
>> a "waterfall" design process, at least in my experience. In the software 
>> world, outside of DOD and NASA, we'd be hard pressed to find projects
>> that followed a strict waterfall model.
> 
> Hmm, I think one risk of having a "heavy" development process is
> that everyone tries to cram all their pet ideas into the project
> like there's no tomorrow. And yes, I have to plead guilty there
> as well :-(
  Yes. This is all controlled by the requirements in a proper process
since the requirements specify a target BOM and launch date. The 
phenomena you refer to is called feature creep.
> 
> I think a useful compromise would be a rigid process from design
> to prototype or product, but the ability to start such processes
> in rapid succession.
yes, ideally with multiple dev teams and a standardized archetecture
I've seen this work.
> 
> A lot of problems in the GTA01/GTA02 design were only found after
> they hit end-users. Instead of bickering for half a year about
> buzz fixes, wouldn't it have been easier in the end if we had
> just been able to start a new design, with the necessary changes,
> but only them ?
Of course. I don't want to rehash particular decisions, but most
product shortcomings ( in all products) can be traced back to poor
requirements or badly expressed requirements.
> 
> This isn't of course something you just decide and it's done.
> You have to design the company/organization around such an idea.
> E.g., don't produce at a factory that could spit out a million of
> units a week but that takes three months to get rolling.
> 
>> minimum, plus a redesign. Take the appendix out--perform a glamoectomy?
>> ask Werner about the design implications of that on WIFI.
> 
> From (painful) memory: Half a month of getting a straight answer
> from the vendor whether the chip can do it, about two weeks of
> figuring out how to best rearrange that whole software stack such
> that the problem becomes solveable, a few days of implementation,
> well above a month to find out why that perfect plan didn't work,
> followed by a few more days of working around the silicon bugs
> eventually discovered. Ah yes, and when it was done, it didn't get
> used :-(
Sorry to bring up painful memories. To use another metaphor, lots of 
people thing of parts on a board as pieces of code you can just comment
out and recompile.
> 
> When assessing the complexity of a problem, we tend to see only
> those few days of actual development, not those months of
> unexpected consequences.
yup..
> 
>> The OM designs all used "modules" for GSM and modules for things like
>> WIFI and BT as opposed to "down" designs or chips on PCBs. The diffculty
>> is not in finding components or modules
> 
> Famous last words ;-) I'd humbly submit that it can be incredibly
> painful to find certain components if you're not a really big
> player. And sometimes, one has to use components that aren't even
> designed for phones, which creates its own set of problems.
  true.
> 
>>   The voting approach will be discussed. Basically I dont believe in 
>> letting idiots vote.
> 
> In Linux, we have the concept of "benevolent dictators" ;-)
   I think we are back to that discussion we had in the cab about 
consensus and debate. I've softened my position somewhat.

> 
> Very nice and insightful post. Thanks !
> 
> - Werner



From tony at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 08:06:30 2009
From: tony at openmoko.com (Neng-Yu Tu (Tony Tu))
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:06:30 +0800
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <49D99BE6.9060404@openmoko.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Steve Mosher wrote:

> > Good comments All.
> >
> > Let me inline some answers/explanations.
> >
> > Lothar Behrens wrote:
>> >> Hi,
> >
> > I use this analogy. You write your code in a series of units.
> > you unit test them. Then you do your first integration.
> > You set up your make files and I charge you 50K to hit return. would
you
> > hit the compile button?

Yes, this pretty much true, and you have to hit the button in time, or
so some the package in that make might phase out (like GTA01 PMU
PCF50606), and then you have spent another run of money to enable the
make button hit-able till mass production again.

> > So what's the result if you don't use a waterfall model in
> > hardware development. Whats the cost if you find a requirements defect
> > or a design defect ( glamo? )when you do that prototype run? 50K
> > minimum, plus a redesign. Take the appendix out--perform a glamoectomy?
> > ask Werner about the design implications of that on WIFI. And
> > see my comments below about design and diving into peanut butter.
> >

Werner just replied, maybe he could share more about his painful direct
contact experience with chip vendor  ;)

In hardware, specification/datasheet is not always correct (or always
not correct). People may found a lot interesting component datasheet
with powerful function (the "dream chip") could solve specific design
problem, but when OM direct contact local distributor, following
scenario always happens:

* the chip never put mass production before, or we are the only user
interested that chip, need bare with long lead-time and bad payment deal

* the chip specific model we want not manufactured yet

* the chip specific function not work, or could not work stability, even
the datasheet

* Our quantities (market size) too small, ignore us (this is better
case, we sometimes got already married with some solution then after a
while, vendor ask for divorce  ;)  )

OM might have other internal issues, but external hardware game rules
tough as well. I don't think other company could really open hardware
not only legal issue (design specification with customer/contract with
telcom) but they got Open mind set to solve open hardware related
process issue like OM done before.

> > or capacitive, keyboard or touch.-- ALL signs to me of a lack of
> > appreciation for the complexity and cost involved in doing hardware. I
> > got a hammer your problem must be a nail. I'll give you

And each component we have to verify it's hardware functionality and
compatibility with Open source, and most of time we have to spent extra
resource to build a full GPL'ed driver if vendor only have proprietary
Windows or some binary vendor version.

This also cause the difficulty when verification hardware in time,
because we need build our own driver to test vendor's hardware. Usually
only hardware vendor could have 1 or 2 FAE port driver for us, and with
our latest kernel and open policy (release driver early even before
product manufactured).

> > and energy is spent on this "solution" In the end, marketing looks at
> > that and says "who took the fucking camera out!" that's not an actual
> > example, but you get the idea.

Yes, freeze idea and snapshot it in time is art of products  ;)

>> >> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
> > In one sense this is trivally true. hardware development is
> > inherently collaborative. But I suppose you mean is it possible
> > to do it in an open fashion. It maybe. But if the requirements process
> > and design process is not rigorous and well defined you end up
> > with expensive implementation problems. And if you don't have team
> > consensus, then it's very problematic. Forking software is easy.
> > Forking hardware is forking hard. The best example I can use is
> > forking ASIC design. You can do a big chip with lots of functionality
> > and then fork off 'defeatured' versions, but that forking needs to
> > be designed in.and it may come with a cost. the same holds true
> > for modular hardware designs. what's easy with lego blocks aint so
> > trivial when it comes to EE design.
> >

As describe above, some of the chip/module may not look pretty real
world as pdf does. And component have supply issue, you never knows you
are the only one buying the really crap or not until you put into mass
production.

Using S3C6410 as example, you never sure which version will put into
mass production for sure or which version will phase out in next 6
months, unless you direct contact with the vendor/distributor, and got
the update in time. It's hard to explain: sorry, your last 6 months
software plan won't work because vendor's business plan suddenly
canceled due to another their BIG customer want go another direction.

seems my reply via other mail account fail, so I use this one instead my
personal as I should ;)

Neng-Yu Tu (Tony Tu)

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From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 08:09:50 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 23:09:50 -0700
Subject: Just Got Buzz Fixed
In-Reply-To: <ffce06340904052033j5fed4374yc9252c548dd6a5dd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87ocvaquc7.fsf@quasar.esben-stien.name>
	<ffce06340904052033j5fed4374yc9252c548dd6a5dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D99CAE.2050600@openmoko.com>

not so weird. The buzz is believed to be somewhat dependent on the 
frequency you are on. 900 is worst, 1800, less so, 1900 reported as ok.
Do you have an 850 phone or 900?

The Digital Pioneer wrote:
> Buzz was interesting for me... I have never had trouble with it before, but
> then I took a trip to Tennessee, and I was told it was horrible. Once I got
> back home, it was gone again. Weird.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



From risto at kurppa.fi  Mon Apr  6 08:12:42 2009
From: risto at kurppa.fi (Risto H. Kurppa)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 09:12:42 +0300
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <49D99BE6.9060404@openmoko.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com> <49D99BE6.9060404@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <d3e504410904052312p29c6250cj679d16b9c36a2de8@mail.gmail.com>

I'm just amazed to see this discussion, that actually someone from
Openmoko (=Steve) is responding to the ideas, sharing their/his
thoughts. As someone pointed already out earlier in this thread - this
is what an open company is supposed to be doing. Way to go, keep up
the good work, we're looking forward to see the free&open
hair-straightener with WLAN :)

r


-- 
| risto h. kurppa
| risto at kurppa dot fi
| http://risto.kurppa.fi



From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 08:16:56 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 23:16:56 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <49D97982.5070900@piradio.org>
References: <755778.87166.qm@web26301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<49D963CA.3060303@openmoko.com> <49D97982.5070900@piradio.org>
Message-ID: <49D99E58.4070506@openmoko.com>

no i didnt upload that video. I relented today and got a youtube account
to upload my video, so I'm still fumbling around with youtube.


Kosa wrote:
> Thanks fo that.
> 
> Just a recomendation. I don't know know if you yourself (hope that's well 
> written since
> english is not my first language) upload that video, but I think it could be a 
> good idea to
> rename it so it includes "openmoko" on the title. It wuld be easier to find for 
> those who
> are not on the list, but have heard about OM.
> 
> Kosa
> 
> - Un mundo mejor es posible -
> 
> Steve Mosher escribi?:
>> Thanks Anthony.
>>
>> For the sake of everyone who hasnt read my posts on this
>> or seen the video of seans speech. Let me say that your position
>> is the one we settled on. spend our resources on the FR and then
>> fund a modest project: project B. Put the GTA03 on hold
>> and find a way to involve the community more in its development.
>>
>> inlined below find an advanced copy of my official comments.
>> stuff I send to the press. As a side note on this, these official
>> comments grew out of posts I made here first. During sean's presentation
>> someone commented that our approach to open business was the most 
>> radical he had seen. It is. and it presents great challenges for all
>> of us.
>>
>> Seans video:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFuwhPXYxxI&feature=PlayList&p=96FB31DA6E4012DA&index=1
>>
>> I'll have my video up in a bit, an interview.
>>
>> Here's the advance copy of my comments to the press.
>>
>>
>> During the last week Openmoko has had two great events. First the 
>> Embedded System Conference, ESC) and second, the OpenExpo in Bern. Those 
>> events could not have been more well timed for us because we had two 
>> major announcements to make: a thrust into the embedded systems market 
>> and the announcement of a new device, not a phone but an entirely new 
>> open device.
>> The launch into the embedded systems market is a case of the market 
>> finding the manufacturer. We designed the FreeRunner as an open phone. 
>> After it launched we started to receive requests from customers we never 
>> dreamed existed: Innovators who wanted to change the case or add in 
>> additional hardware. People who wanted to resell the phone with their 
>> software added. The collective creativity outside the company, dwarfed 
>> the creativity within the company. Our customers truly are an army of 
>> Davids. To seize this opportunity we decided to open up our CAD files, 
>> and open up our schematics. That way these new-found markets can develop 
>> for themselves products that we don?t have the resources to develop. So, 
>> over the next few months you?ll see us make a more focused effort in 
>> this market space. As a platform for embedded development, nothing 
>> compares to the FreeRunner: Open schematics; Open CAD; Open hardware; 
>> Open software.
>> 	At OpenExpo we had a keynote speech in the business track. This gave us 
>> the opportunity to explain some of the change in focus we?ve made in the 
>> past month. Our CEO Sean Moss-Pultz delivered the presentation and I?ll 
>> take some space here to explain in a bit more detail the background 
>> behind these exciting changes. Sean discussed three things:
>> 1. Our successes.
>> 2. Our mistakes.
>> 3. Our challenges
>> It?s vitally important when addressing the challenges of the future to 
>> assess and understand your past success. Openmoko launched its first 
>> developer phone in July of 07 and the FreeRunner shipped in July of 08. 
>> Sales tripled. Not only did we build a phone; we built a company and 
>> distribution network in the process. We also helped others build their 
>> own businesses around the FreeRunner. Our takeaway lessons were as 
>> follows: Open Products can be successful in the marketplace; being Open 
>> multiplies everyone?s business opportunities. For our mistakes we 
>> identified these: Open Product design is very hard as there is a 
>> tendency to make too many changes. Our culture is not authoritarian. We 
>> also tended to view hardware with a ?software? mentality, as something 
>> that could be easily changed or patched.
>> Our challenge going forward is to seize the opportunity we see in the 
>> embedded space and push forward the cause of open hardware. And we had 
>> to make some choices about how to spend the balance of 2009. There were 
>> essentially three projects going on inside OpenMoko: ongoing support of 
>> FreeRunner; Development of a follow on phone, the GTA03; and development 
>> of project ?B?. From a resources standpoint we could pick any two. Given 
>> the traction we see in the embedded space and given our passionate 
>> commitment to current FreeRunner owners and developers it was easy to 
>> pick that project. Nine months after launching FreeRunner with 
>> tremendous support from the community the product is coming into its own 
>> with a diverse set of distributions that run on it, from android to 
>> debian.  Then comes the choice between project ?B? and the GTA03.
>> There were two paths:
>> A: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch GTA03
>> B: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and  launch project B.
>> We will talk more about project B in the coming months, but these 
>> salient facts guided our decisions:
>> 1. GTA03 was in constant flux as a design.
>> 2. GTA03 schedule was consequently always slipping.
>> 3. The resources required for GTA03 are 3X those required for Project B.
>> 4. OM doesn?t have 3X resources
>>
>> So, we picked plan B. Focus on supporting the FreeRunner and launching 
>> the more modest project, project B. That decision entailed putting GTA03 
>> on hold and rethinking how we do that product and that business in a 
>> better way: learning from our mistakes and building on our success. It 
>> also meant restructuring engineering and sales and marketing.
>> Now comes the question, what about GTA03? how do we get there? And when? 
>> and what is it?
>> First, we attend to the issues that still remain with the FreeRunner. 
>> Second we complete project B. When we've done that, then we get to eat 
>> dessert. Essentially, we agreed with the case made by users on our 
>> community list. They asked us: ?How do expect us to buy a GTA03 when the 
>> FreeRunner is not yet consumer ready?? We also listened to our 
>> distribution partners. They wanted to know how they could continue to 
>> sell the FreeRunner when the GTA03 was ?just around the corner.? And 
>> finally, we listened to our engineers. Since all of our sales are to 
>> people who understand engineering, their opinion about market viability 
>> is very important to us.
>> All of those arguments said the GTA03 as defined made no sense. As it 
>> was defined, it is dead. So how do we get to a new GTA03? Two 
>> requirements: continue to improve the FreeRunner; deliver on project B. 
>> What is GTA03 and when do we get there? There are a number of 
>> independent volunteer efforts out working at defining the GTA03 and 
>> working at refining or revolutionizing the business model to make it 
>> possible. Going forward we are going to open those efforts entirely. Our 
>> community has consistently asked for a voice in the up-front design 
>> decisions, so we will build a mechanism to try to make that happen. 
>> Again, whenever we see a challenge or an opportunity our first reaction 
>> is to rely on our strength. The community. They have never let us down.
>> Specifically what can the community do to help with this challenge and 
>> seize the opportunities we are presented with?
>> 1. Move FreeRunner code upstream.
>> 2. Stay involved or get involved.
>> 3. Continue work on applications and distributions
>> 4. Buy a FreeRunner.
>> 5. Get involved in GTA03 discussions. The mailing list will appear on 
>> Openmoko.org in the forthcoming days.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anthony Clearn wrote:
>>   
>>> Perhaps one of the positives which could be taken from this is that it allows a rethink. One question in my mind was why the need to produce GTA03 when GTA02 was getting better? I hadn't time to follow GTA03 as like many people, I see, I have a fair few emails to read. I once heard someone say most businesses fail as they try to be perfect (something like the waterfall, I suppose). So could things move on with just a GTA02 (not forgetting GTA01, but concentrating on the latest product) or does the project really need 03 / plan B? I suppose having a camera, 3G, etc would have been good, but isn't the fact that the phone is open the big selling point? I know it is for me.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards, 
>>> A.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>     
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>   



From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 08:44:26 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 23:44:26 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <49D98F92.4000304@t0ny.net>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com> <49D98F92.4000304@t0ny.net>
Message-ID: <49D9A4CA.1050006@openmoko.com>

Hey tony!

???

Glad to see your comments.

Neng-Yu Tu (Tony Tu) wrote:
> Steve Mosher wrote:
>> Good comments All.
>>
>> Let me inline some answers/explanations.
>>
>> Lothar Behrens wrote:
>>> Hi,
>> I use this analogy. You write your code in a series of units.
>> you unit test them. Then you do your first integration.
>> You set up your make files and I charge you 50K to hit return. would you 
>> hit the compile button?
> 
> Yes, this pretty much true, and you have to hit the button in time, or
> so some the package in that make might phase out (like GTA01 PMU
> PCF50606), and then you have spent another run of money to enable the
> make button hit-able till mass production again.
> 
>> So what's the result if you don't use a waterfall model in
>> hardware development. Whats the cost if you find a requirements defect 
>> or a design defect ( glamo? )when you do that prototype run? 50K 
>> minimum, plus a redesign. Take the appendix out--perform a glamoectomy?
>> ask Werner about the design implications of that on WIFI. And
>> see my comments below about design and diving into peanut butter.
>>
> 
> Werner just replied, maybe he could share more about his painful direct
> contact experience with chip vendor ;)
> 
> In hardware, specification/datasheet is not always correct (or always
> not correct). People may found a lot interesting component datasheet
> with powerful function (the "dream chip") could solve specific design
> problem, but when OM direct contact local distributor, following
> scenario always happens:
> 
> * the chip never put mass production before, or we are the only user
> interested that chip, need bare with long lead-time and bad payment deal
> 
> * the chip specific model we want not manufactured yet
> 
> * the chip specific function not work, or could not work stability, even
> the datasheet
> 
> * Our quantities (market size) too small, ignore us (this is better
> case, we sometimes got already married with some solution then after a
> while, vendor ask for divorce ;) )
> 
> OM might have other internal issues, but external hardware game rules
> tough as well. I don't think other company could really open hardware
> not only legal issue (design specification with customer/contract with
> telcom) but they got Open mind set to solve open hardware related
> process issue like OM done before.

  Yes. I think one of the challenges that some people really dont 
understand very well are all these little nagging details.having worked 
for a big company I'm just used to going in and getting the parts
I needed when I needed them. In 11 years there were only a few cases
were I had to go begging for parts.. RAM on the VoodooII from silcon
magic,  and DDR memory on the Nv10 I think from infineon.. oh and 1.8 
toshiba drives  after the ipod shipped, bastards.. ah and tantalum caps
once or twice.

>> or capacitive, keyboard or touch.-- ALL signs to me of a lack of 
>> appreciation for the complexity and cost involved in doing hardware. I 
>> got a hammer your problem must be a nail. I'll give you
> 
> And each component we have to verify it's hardware functionality and
> compatibility with Open source, and most of time we have to spent extra
> resource to build a full GPL'ed driver if vendor only have proprietary
> Windows or some binary vendor version.
> 
> This also cause the difficulty when verification hardware in time,
> because we need build our own driver to test vendor's hardware. Usually
> only hardware vendor could have 1 or 2 FAE port driver for us, and with
> our latest kernel and open policy (release driver early even before
> product manufactured).
> 
>> and energy is spent on this "solution" In the end, marketing looks at 
>> that and says "who took the fucking camera out!" that's not an actual 
>> example, but you get the idea.
> 
> Yes, freeze idea and snapshot it in time is art of products ;)


> 
>>> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
>> In one sense this is trivally true. hardware development is
>> inherently collaborative. But I suppose you mean is it possible
>> to do it in an open fashion. It maybe. But if the requirements process
>> and design process is not rigorous and well defined you end up
>> with expensive implementation problems. And if you don't have team 
>> consensus, then it's very problematic. Forking software is easy.
>> Forking hardware is forking hard. The best example I can use is
>> forking ASIC design. You can do a big chip with lots of functionality
>> and then fork off 'defeatured' versions, but that forking needs to
>> be designed in.and it may come with a cost. the same holds true
>> for modular hardware designs. what's easy with lego blocks aint so
>> trivial when it comes to EE design.
>>
> 
> As describe above, some of the chip/module may not look pretty real
> world as pdf does. And component have supply issue, you never knows you
> are the only one buying the really crap or not until you put into mass
> production.
> 
> Using S3C6410 as example, you never sure which version will put into
> mass production for sure or which version will phase out in next 6
> months, unless you direct contact with the vendor/distributor, and got
> the update in time. It's hard to explain: sorry, your last 6 months
> software plan won't work because vendor's business plan suddenly
> canceled due to another their BIG customer want go another direction.
> 
> Neng-Yu Tu (Tony Tu)



From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 09:02:06 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:02:06 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <d3e504410904052312p29c6250cj679d16b9c36a2de8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>	
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>	
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>	
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>	
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com> <49D99BE6.9060404@openmoko.com>
	<d3e504410904052312p29c6250cj679d16b9c36a2de8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D9A8EE.7020602@openmoko.com>

Thanks Risto.

  It really is a function of the sharpened focus of the company. In my 
particular case, if we back up to the september october time frame
I was working on doing the requirements and specs for the GTA04 with
joerg, looking at the glamoetctomy with werner, Doing FR stuff and 
project B. So now I have a much clearer focus and ability to tend to 
community matters.

Risto H. Kurppa wrote:
> I'm just amazed to see this discussion, that actually someone from
> Openmoko (=Steve) is responding to the ideas, sharing their/his
> thoughts. As someone pointed already out earlier in this thread - this
> is what an open company is supposed to be doing. Way to go, keep up
> the good work, we're looking forward to see the free&open
> hair-straightener with WLAN :)
> 
> r
> 
> 



From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 09:48:27 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:48:27 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <d3e504410904052312p29c6250cj679d16b9c36a2de8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>	
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>	
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>	
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>	
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com> <49D99BE6.9060404@openmoko.com>
	<d3e504410904052312p29c6250cj679d16b9c36a2de8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D9B3CB.1030108@openmoko.com>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d8Tsvj2TdQ

Hair straightener required.

Risto H. Kurppa wrote:
> I'm just amazed to see this discussion, that actually someone from
> Openmoko (=Steve) is responding to the ideas, sharing their/his
> thoughts. As someone pointed already out earlier in this thread - this
> is what an open company is supposed to be doing. Way to go, keep up
> the good work, we're looking forward to see the free&open
> hair-straightener with WLAN :)
> 
> r
> 
> 



From liedekef at telenet.be  Mon Apr  6 10:04:32 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 10:04:32 +0200
Subject: [QtExtended] does anybody use matchbox keyboard?
In-Reply-To: <49D95565.4050204@seznam.cz>
References: <49D8B006.70305@lilik.it> <49D95565.4050204@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <60567dcc0904060104q3eac66degcd2d5a437066d4b4@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 3:05 AM, Radek Polak <psonek2 at seznam.cz> wrote:

> leonardo at lilik.it wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> > Does anybody use the matchbox keyboard on Qtextended? (the one with grey
> > little letters unusable with your fingers?).
>
> I am using it. I am surprised myself that i can type on it, but works
> for me quite good. However i wouldnt mind if i had better keyboard :)
> At least the backspace could be in place that is easier to hit.
>
> My favourite keyboard was the one in SHR.
>
> Radek
>

well, the predictive one is nice as well, it just shouldn't be predictive
:-) That way typing goes much faster and the sliding to get another layout
is pretty nice ... I've already tweaked this keyboard to go faster into
non-predictive mode per letter, but it should be possible to disable
predictiveness altogether.

Franky
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From david at tuxbrain.com  Mon Apr  6 10:29:08 2009
From: david at tuxbrain.com (David Reyes Samblas Martinez)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 10:29:08 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <49D9B3CB.1030108@openmoko.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com> <49D99BE6.9060404@openmoko.com>
	<d3e504410904052312p29c6250cj679d16b9c36a2de8@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D9B3CB.1030108@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <5c6ceea80904060129pc64c5cfqa10780114a84f2e2@mail.gmail.com>

I finally see your face :),  I also add great voice
Great excerpt of what's going on there in OM  thanks steve.
As Risto sais way to go :)

2009/4/6 Steve Mosher <steve at openmoko.com>:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d8Tsvj2TdQ
>
> Hair straightener required.
>
> Risto H. Kurppa wrote:
>> I'm just amazed to see this discussion, that actually someone from
>> Openmoko (=Steve) is responding to the ideas, sharing their/his
>> thoughts. As someone pointed already out earlier in this thread - this
>> is what an open company is supposed to be doing. Way to go, keep up
>> the good work, we're looking forward to see the free&open
>> hair-straightener with WLAN :)
>>
>> r
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



-- 
David Reyes Samblas Martinez
http://www.tuxbrain.com
Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!



From anas.lbn at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 10:30:47 2009
From: anas.lbn at gmail.com (Anas Alzouhbi)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 10:30:47 +0200
Subject: packaging my application
Message-ID: <d4b7a31a0904060130n4da529b0vdea359c6d84f34ac@mail.gmail.com>

Hi
I try to run a program "helloworld"
I read the toolchain document, I arrived to packaging your application:
but I run this command om-make-ipkg helloworld
the output of this command is:
make: entrant dans le r?pertoire ? /root/helloworld ?
Making install in src
make[1]: entrant dans le r?pertoire ? /root/helloworld/src ?
make[1]: *** Pas de r?gle pour fabriquer la cible ? sample-main.c ?,
n?cessaire pour ? sample-main.o ?. Arr?t.
make[1]: quittant le r?pertoire ? /root/helloworld/src ?
make: *** [install-recursive] Erreur 1
make: quittant le r?pertoire ? /root/helloworld ?
y011pc99:~# cd hellworld
bash: cd: hellworld: Aucun fichier ou r?pertoire de ce type
what I have do to solve this problem, should I rename sample-main.o to
main.o, or what??



From riso at om.ksp.sk  Mon Apr  6 10:37:37 2009
From: riso at om.ksp.sk (Richard Kralovic)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:37:37 +0200
Subject: Transparent keyboard in illume
In-Reply-To: <40cd9ce40904050552u1118fe9cx782dc7beb60fea92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49B41F29.30802@om.ksp.sk>
	<49B58C91.3020404@strapp.co.uk>	<49B634B7.8020700@om.ksp.sk>	<1e3adca60903101421i7898b9e1s468c85b82a25682e@mail.gmail.com>	<1e3adca60903120006q38f294a3hf553b10ab04cbe41@mail.gmail.com>	<49B8D5AE.3090409@om.ksp.sk>	<40cd9ce40904020130l6a068189j6b572c0f9ce15fd@mail.gmail.com>	<49D5DF4F.2000908@om.ksp.sk>	<40cd9ce40904030440u324612c3ua5936e1687b467cd@mail.gmail.com>	<49D7C335.7040003@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904050552u1118fe9cx782dc7beb60fea92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D9BF51.9090807@om.ksp.sk>

> Then I restarted, and lead the xcom.... script. It runs ok (no errors).
> But when I "open" the keyboard, it is not transparent, and the circles
> from "u..." clockwise or the way back just change the size. Have I
> really installed "your" qwo package ? How can I check please

Hmmm... you can e.g. check if /usr/bin/qwo contains string
NET_WM_WINDOW_OPACITY (run
strings /usr/bin/qwo | grep NET_WM_WINDOW_OPACITY
). Or you can just reinstall qwo (I have recompiled it now to be sure
that the version is correct).

If you want to test if the transparency works at all, you can try
opkg upgrade
opkg install transset
transset
and click any window - it should be transparent afterwards.

Greets
	Richard

> 
> Thanks again
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community




From pander at users.sourceforge.net  Mon Apr  6 10:56:14 2009
From: pander at users.sourceforge.net (Pander)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:56:14 +0200
Subject: [SHR] Packaging extra fonts
Message-ID: <49D9C3AE.9040206@users.sourceforge.net>

Hi all,

I need some extra fonts to display kanji. I have manged to copy some
.ttf files manually and that works. Now, I would like to package these
fonts in an .opkg file. do I need to call some executables to properly
register the ttf files or is putting the files in the correct directory
suffiecient?

Regards,

Pander



From michael-tansella at gmx.de  Mon Apr  6 11:18:29 2009
From: michael-tansella at gmx.de (Michael Tansella)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 11:18:29 +0200
Subject: toolchain with Ubuntu Jaunty (9.04)
Message-ID: <200904061118.29706.michael-tansella@gmx.de>

Hi,

has anybody tried the new toolchain with new Ubuntu (9.04)? Is it compatible? 

Greets
Michael



From rask at sygehus.dk  Sun Apr  5 20:01:18 2009
From: rask at sygehus.dk (Rask Ingemann Lambertsen)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 20:01:18 +0200
Subject: Bass fix (Was: buzz fix)
In-Reply-To: <4981A638.4010407@hist.no>
References: <200901271431.52597.openmoko@mazikeen.demon.co.uk>
	<4981A638.4010407@hist.no>
Message-ID: <20090405180117.GY27350@sygehus.dk>

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 01:51:04PM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote:
> My hope is that the plug is so big, that re-soldering it won't require 
> special skills. And the small caps can apperently be shorted without 
> soldering, as suggested on the hw list.

   Do you have a pointer to that?

-- 
Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year



From rask at sygehus.dk  Mon Apr  6 03:37:43 2009
From: rask at sygehus.dk (Rask Ingemann Lambertsen)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 03:37:43 +0200
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20090406013743.GC27350@sygehus.dk>

On Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 11:36:39AM +0100, Thomas White wrote:

> We do have some acceleration already - both XGlamo (the Kdrive X server)
> and xf86-video-glamo (the Glamo driver for Xorg) make use of Glamo's 2D
> engine to accelerate tasks such as flood-filling large areas and moving
> blocks of data around the screen or onto the screen from offscreen.

   Btw, what is the state of xf86-video-glamo? Does XVIDEO work? Does screen
rotation work (without getting huge fonts, messed up DPI values)?

> There are many limitations of the chip, but I don't see them as a
> reason to give up on this kind of thing.  For example, it's often
> mentioned that the 3D engine won't render to a buffer larger than
> 511x511 pixels.  That would seem to rule out such graphical fanciness
> at the native resolution of 480x640, but how about we just cover a
> 480x511 region of the screen with accelerated graphics and make the
> remaining area into some kind of tool or status bar?

   No, we absolutely need to have a 3D accelerated keyboard. :-)

-- 
Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year



From openmoko at ginguppin.de  Mon Apr  6 11:35:40 2009
From: openmoko at ginguppin.de (arne anka)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 11:35:40 +0200
Subject: packaging my application
In-Reply-To: <d4b7a31a0904060130n4da529b0vdea359c6d84f34ac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4b7a31a0904060130n4da529b0vdea359c6d84f34ac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.urykxqg241evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>

> what I have do to solve this problem

a first step would be to make your system put out those messages in  
english.
my french is rather rusty and was never supposed to work with tech terms.

before starting what ever you do do
export LANG=en_US
and in the same shell run your commands. when the errors come up, they  
should be in english, allowing more people to respond.



From mail at 3v1n0.net  Mon Apr  6 11:49:25 2009
From: mail at 3v1n0.net (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcmNvIFRyZXZpc2FuIChUcmV2acOxbyki?=)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 11:49:25 +0200
Subject: Navit skins...
Message-ID: <grcift$8ds$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hello, some days ago I saw this nice skin for Navit [1] on scap.
Please, could the author share it? :P

Anyway, how can these skins be written?

And... How can be enabled the 3d-view? Should I change something in my
navit.xml to get it working with latest svn version?

Thanks.


PS: Is the navit EFL porting [2] going on?

[1] http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2592/a1eb2f95f1cac3004593991.png
[2] http://i34.tinypic.com/2m7t64m.png

-- 
Trevi?o's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/




From rask at sygehus.dk  Mon Apr  6 11:44:04 2009
From: rask at sygehus.dk (Rask Ingemann Lambertsen)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 11:44:04 +0200
Subject: test result of battery current against display brightness and
	GPS power mode
In-Reply-To: <49D0BE12.4010204@om.ksp.sk>
References: <4c9b51c20903261421n267abdefxe35c25a0a8dff51e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090328130834.GX27350@sygehus.dk>
	<1238262972319-2549904.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<49CE6D38.1060305@om.ksp.sk> <20090328205501.GA27350@sygehus.dk>
	<49D0BE12.4010204@om.ksp.sk>
Message-ID: <20090406094404.GD27350@sygehus.dk>

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 02:41:54PM +0200, Richard Kralovic wrote:
> Rask Ingemann Lambertsen wrote:
> > On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 07:32:24PM +0100, Richard Kralovic wrote:
> >> It may be the case that the fixes for the current leak were introduced
> >> in devel branch (linux-openmoko-devel). On kernel 2.6.29-rc3, my tests
> >> show a drop from cca 80mA to cca 47mA.
> > 
> >    Do you know which git revision that kernel is? Alternatively, where did
> 
> I am using gitr1e257a0e99817a338e3706708ebb5036518e46d8, I compiled it
> myself.

   OK, I think I've found something. If I boot up Debian with LXDE (with
xscreensaver and pcmanfm uninstalled) and just run the test there, I once in
a while get 53 mA, but usually it's 55 mA. Now I stopped some userspace
stuff:
# /etc/init.d/apmd stop
# /etc/init.d/nodm stop

$ sleep 120 && cat
/sys/class/power_supply/battery/{status,current_now,voltage_now,capacity}
Discharging
47250
4151000
100

   I.e. 8 mA lost because of something in userspace. :-(

   I'm working on CPU frequency scaling support. Slowing the CPU to 100 MHz
and 1.1 V core power supply gives:

$ sleep 120 && cat
/sys/class/power_supply/battery/{status,current_now,voltage_now,capacity}
Discharging
39750
4148000
100

:-)

-- 
Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year



From lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de  Mon Apr  6 11:41:57 2009
From: lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de (Lothar Behrens)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 11:41:57 +0200
Subject: Camera module as back case (was Re: Slashdotted)
In-Reply-To: <5c6ceea80904060129pc64c5cfqa10780114a84f2e2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com> <49D99BE6.9060404@openmoko.com>
	<d3e504410904052312p29c6250cj679d16b9c36a2de8@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D9B3CB.1030108@openmoko.com>
	<5c6ceea80904060129pc64c5cfqa10780114a84f2e2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CCE2D7D2-D1C1-4040-92A6-F22366E038DF@lollisoft.de>

About the camera issue:

I have read something about a small computer base case that has a jack  
or bus system ontop of it's
case. That way it is extendable with cameras or what ever. I don't  
know where it was but it was cool.

Why not think about a back case that includes a cam and using contacts  
in the inner housing to connect
the cam to, say an I2C bus or even an USB hub (USB2)?

If an USB jack is mounted that way, such a 'pimp my neo with a cam  
module' would propably a gatget
one could buy. (Expected he want's a camera :-)

The usual neo looks as before when this replacement back case isn't  
used and when used, there may also
the possibility to add an extra battery.

I asked some time ago, if it would be practical to have a database  
application on the neo
(Database applications practical on mobile device ?).

There was an interest, that may also involved to have a camera option: http://www.thehumanjourney.net/
Joseph Reeves argued that it would be very interesting to contribute  
or evaluate. As he is a member at the above link,
the 'archaeology service' would propably benefit from such a cam  
gatget with extra battery, because they seem
to make much pictures in the archaeology work, thus they need also  
long live usability.

If the gatget didn't really be implementable with the USB connector in  
mind, it would be an option to connect with
bluetooth and only connect the extra battery.

Advantages:

One gatget to track GPS locations,
correlate directly the pictures with the GPS positions (I am  
struggling with my extra cam and the GPS traces),
propably add voice notes that are GPS correlated.

Development:

The standard back case, could be used to mod it as a first prototype.  
I have seen a post with pictures that show something
with an extra battery. (The second last picture from here: http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/gallery/views.php?start=20)
That could be done colleraborately. The bluetooth camera: http://digitalcameras.engadget.com/2006/04/02/kodaks-bluetooth-camera-module/

Design:

As thicker than one battery,
As thicker than a cam module,
As thicker than the supporting electronics.

Using BRLCAD could be an option to create a preview, when possible  
components with their sizes are choosen.

The database that may be the backend should be discussed separately. I  
am practicing the idea of model driven development and fast prototyping.
I have seen wxWidgtes on my neo, but not yet found the time to start  
porting my code to it :-(

But prototyping from a desktop would be possible for creating python  
CRUD applications at the end (code generation).

Lothar

Am 06.04.2009 um 10:29 schrieb David Reyes Samblas Martinez:

> I finally see your face :),  I also add great voice
> Great excerpt of what's going on there in OM  thanks steve.
> As Risto sais way to go :)
>
> 2009/4/6 Steve Mosher <steve at openmoko.com>:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d8Tsvj2TdQ
>>
>> Hair straightener required.
>>
>> Risto H. Kurppa wrote:
>>> I'm just amazed to see this discussion, that actually someone from
>>> Openmoko (=Steve) is responding to the ideas, sharing their/his
>>> thoughts. As someone pointed already out earlier in this thread -  
>>> this
>>> is what an open company is supposed to be doing. Way to go, keep up
>>> the good work, we're looking forward to see the free&open
>>> hair-straightener with WLAN :)
>>>
>>> r
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
> http://www.tuxbrain.com
> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>

-- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
Lothar Behrens
Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
73252 Lenningen











From foringer at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 11:45:50 2009
From: foringer at gmail.com (foringer at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:45:50 +0400
Subject: Problems in openmoko-messages
In-Reply-To: <200904041518.08290.mok@mnet-online.de>
References: <ade383570904040423p2a328895o8353a75820eb681f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904041518.08290.mok@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <ade383570904060245s626b1434qda3803521589ee12@mail.gmail.com>

OK. Next question: can I use another application (maybe console one) for
sending SMS-messages in my native lang?

2009/4/4 Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann <mok at mnet-online.de>

> Am Samstag 04 April 2009 13:23:41 schrieb foringer at gmail.com:
> > Hello list!
> >
> > Lately I started to use SHR testing distrib on my FR device and found
> very
> > big problem. I'm from Russia and want to send SMS messages on my native
> > language, but cannot do it. When I type a new message in russian language
> -
> > nothing is displayed on the screen, when typing in english everything is
> > ok. I can perfectly receive message in Russian, but cannot send. Need
> your
> > help.
> This is a known problem with enlightenment and UTF8 input... Don't know of
> a
> fix... not even in sight.
>
> >
> > Big thanks...
> > Nik
>
> Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann
>
>


-- 
http://lcl.sytes.net:3880
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From anas.lbn at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 12:04:50 2009
From: anas.lbn at gmail.com (Anas Alzouhbi)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:04:50 +0200
Subject: packaging my application
In-Reply-To: <d4b7a31a0904060130n4da529b0vdea359c6d84f34ac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4b7a31a0904060130n4da529b0vdea359c6d84f34ac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4b7a31a0904060304h13ef2653q45aa2d28a6da00f0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi
I try to run a program "helloworld"
I read the toolchain document, I arrived to packaging your application:
but I run this command om-make-ipkg helloworld
the output of this command is:
usage: om-make-ipkg [app_dir_name] [ipkg_control_file]
y011pc99:~/helloworld/src# cd ..
y011pc99:~/helloworld# cd ..
y011pc99:~# om-make-ipkg helloworld
make: Entering directory `/root/helloworld'
Making install in src
make[1]: Entering directory `/root/helloworld/src'
make[1]: *** No rule to make target `sample-main.c', needed by
`sample-main.o'.  Stop.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/root/helloworld/src'
make: *** [install-recursive] Error 1
make: Leaving directory `/root/helloworld'
what I have do to solve this problem, should I rename sample-main.o to
main.o, or what??



From rask at sygehus.dk  Sun Apr  5 19:26:15 2009
From: rask at sygehus.dk (Rask Ingemann Lambertsen)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 19:26:15 +0200
Subject: Using 3G USB dongle [Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a
	3G device]
In-Reply-To: <20090403075949.GC22406@cumulus>
References: <a6af4cea0904020938s46987ebfsc073373684ce385e@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D52D5F.7060100@gmail.com> <84bpreqojo.fsf_-_@sauna.l.org>
	<20090403075949.GC22406@cumulus>
Message-ID: <20090405172614.GX27350@sygehus.dk>

On Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 09:59:49AM +0200, Sander wrote:
> Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote (ao):
> > 
> > I have been using E169 dongle quite a lot with freerunner.
> 
> What do you use to connect the dongle and the FR? I'm looking for a
> converter between the small FR port and the large dongle port.

https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Specialized_USB_cables

-- 
Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year



From timo.lindfors at iki.fi  Mon Apr  6 12:06:44 2009
From: timo.lindfors at iki.fi (Timo Juhani Lindfors)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:06:44 +0300
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <20090406013743.GC27350@sygehus.dk> (Rask Ingemann Lambertsen's
	message of "Mon, 6 Apr 2009 03:37:43 +0200")
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<20090406013743.GC27350@sygehus.dk>
Message-ID: <84fxgmnljf.fsf@sauna.l.org>

Rask Ingemann Lambertsen <rask at sygehus.dk> writes:
> Btw, what is the state of xf86-video-glamo?

I have been using xf86-video-glamo since Feb 25 and it[1] seems to be
quite stable.

> Does XVIDEO work?

xdpyinfo advertises Xvideo. My normal .mplayer/config has

framedrop=yes
vo=x11
quiet=yes

and with that at least some youtube videos play just fine (including
audio):

lindi at ginger:~$ youtube-dl http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq-YQ7GuP7I
lindi at ginger:~$ time mplayer -endpos 30 `youtube-dl -g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq-YQ7GuP7I`
real    0m41.659s
user    0m20.940s
sys     0m3.830s

I tried -vo xv and it seemed to use considerably less cpu time:

lindi at ginger:~$ time mplayer -endpos 30 -vo xv `youtube-dl -g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq-YQ7GuP7I`
real    0m41.375s
user    0m9.090s
sys     0m2.930s

However, I did not see anything on the screen :-) (Audio was fine though.)

> Does screen rotation work (without getting huge fonts, messed up DPI
> values)?

lindi at ginger:~$ xdpyinfo | grep -B1 resolution
  dimensions:    480x640 pixels (200x200 millimeters)
  resolution:    61x81 dots per inch
lindi at ginger:~$ xrandr -o 1
lindi at ginger:~$ xdpyinfo | grep -B1 resolution
  dimensions:    640x480 pixels (200x200 millimeters)
  resolution:    81x61 dots per inch
lindi at ginger:~$ xrandr -o 0
lindi at ginger:~$ xdpyinfo | grep -B1 resolution
  dimensions:    480x640 pixels (200x200 millimeters)
  resolution:    61x81 dots per inch

Clearly it is lying on the physical screen size but my fonts look
normal so I have not bothered to look into it :-) Lars, any comments?
Is this what you see also?


[1] my regular status report describes most aspects of my setup:
time unix: 1238931495
time: Sun Apr  5 14:38:15 EEST 2009
uptime:  14:38:15 up  1:39,  6 users,  load average: 1.75, 1.11, 0.61
uptime seconds: 5959.21 5368.47
ip: 85.77.253.68
energy: 80 %
consumption on resume: 32437 uA
temperature: 27.6 C
temperature on resume: 27.3 C
accelerometer1: 738 -594 -432
accelerometer2: 936 126 -504
gsm signal strength: 24
kernel: Linux ginger 2.6.28-GTA02_lindi-andy-tracking_b8b36e5ec3db71d5-mokodev #53 PREEMPT Sun Feb 22 13:08:50 UTC 2009 armv4tl GNU/Linux
kernel cmdline: rootfstype=jffs2 root=/dev/mtdblock6 console=ttySAC2,115200 console=tty0 loglevel=8 regular_boot mtdparts=physmap-flash:-(nor);neo1973-nand:0x00040000(u-boot),0x00040000(u-boot_env),0x00800000(kernel),0x000a0000(splash),0x00040000(factory),0x0f6a0000(rootfs) rootfstype=ext2 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootdelay=5 panic=10 mem=127M
gsm0710muxd: abcbcd7cc532a8834906de3fc24c8f8fe7643cd4
frameworkd: e6c36e917cc75809f60fa587b68bbf6be0c5bf58
u-boot: U-Boot 1.3.2+gitr46+dc633f4be2527f844158aa5085c278b0c3039d3f (Aug  8 2008 - 03:58:49)
xserver-xorg-core: 2:1.5.99.902-1
xf86-video-glamo: 703acea13
distro: debian gnu/linux unstable
dialer: kapula Thu Feb 5 02:10:58 EET 2009 timo.lindfors at iki.fi
gsm firmware: gsm_ac_gp_fd_pu_em_cph_ds_vc_cal35_ri_36_amd8_ts0-Moko11b1
hardware revision:  0350




From daniel at totalueberwachung.de  Mon Apr  6 12:13:41 2009
From: daniel at totalueberwachung.de (Daniel Willmann)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:13:41 +0200
Subject: Freerunner buzz-fix party in Braunschweig
Message-ID: <20090406121341.385fa051@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>

Hello,

there is now a date set for the buzz-fix party in Braunschweig
(May 1st - May 3rd). Please put your names on the wikipage
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/BuzzFixParty#Braunschweig if you are
planning to attend. Any other infos, location, etc. will be updated
there.

Regards,
Daniel Willmann
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From fercerpav at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 12:17:46 2009
From: fercerpav at gmail.com (Paul Fertser)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:17:46 +0400
Subject: Bass fix
In-Reply-To: <20090405180117.GY27350@sygehus.dk> (Rask Ingemann Lambertsen's
	message of "Sun\, 5 Apr 2009 20\:01\:18 +0200")
References: <200901271431.52597.openmoko@mazikeen.demon.co.uk>
	<4981A638.4010407@hist.no> <20090405180117.GY27350@sygehus.dk>
Message-ID: <m2skkmdr1x.fsf@home.pavel.comp>

Rask Ingemann Lambertsen <rask at sygehus.dk> writes:
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 01:51:04PM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote:
>> My hope is that the plug is so big, that re-soldering it won't require 
>> special skills. And the small caps can apperently be shorted without 
>> soldering, as suggested on the hw list.
>
>    Do you have a pointer to that?

Shorting caps is discouraged for various reasons; please see the
schematics to know about all implications of that idea.

-- 
Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
mailto:fercerpav at gmail.com



From gunnar.grimnes at dfki.de  Mon Apr  6 12:24:09 2009
From: gunnar.grimnes at dfki.de (Gunnar Aastrand Grimnes)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:24:09 +0200
Subject: Remote buzz-fix in Braunschweig or PULSTER?  was: Re: Freerunner
	buzz-fix party in Braunschweig
In-Reply-To: <20090406121341.385fa051@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
References: <20090406121341.385fa051@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
Message-ID: <49D9D849.7000105@dfki.de>

Hi,

I would quite like to have my FreeRunner fixed, but not at the cost of
driving across all of germany. What about sending it to you (along with
money for return shipping somehow)?
There was discussion of this before.

Alternatively - does pulster offer some buzz-fixing? I seem to remember
reading about plans for this here before? Christoph?

Cheers,

- Gunnar

Daniel Willmann wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> there is now a date set for the buzz-fix party in Braunschweig
> (May 1st - May 3rd). Please put your names on the wikipage
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/BuzzFixParty#Braunschweig if you are
> planning to attend. Any other infos, location, etc. will be updated
> there.
> 
> Regards,
> Daniel Willmann
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


-- 
Gunnar Aastrand Grimnes
gunnar.grimnes [AT] dfki.de

DFKI GmbH
Knowledge Management
Trippstadter Strasse 122
D-67663 Kaiserslautern
Germany

Office: +49 631 205 75-117
Mobile: +49 177 277 4397





From vendion at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 12:27:40 2009
From: vendion at gmail.com (Adam Jimerson)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 06:27:40 -0400
Subject: Just Got Buzz Fixed
In-Reply-To: <ffce06340904052033j5fed4374yc9252c548dd6a5dd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87ocvaquc7.fsf@quasar.esben-stien.name>
	<ffce06340904052033j5fed4374yc9252c548dd6a5dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200904060627.44525.vendion@charter.net>

On Sunday 05 April 2009 11:33:08 pm The Digital Pioneer wrote:
>... I have never had trouble with it before, but
> then I took a trip to Tennessee...

Maybe that is my problem with the buzz, looks like it is time to move XP
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From kimaidou at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 12:29:08 2009
From: kimaidou at gmail.com (kimaidou)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:29:08 +0200
Subject: Transparent keyboard in illume
In-Reply-To: <49D9BF51.9090807@om.ksp.sk>
References: <49B41F29.30802@om.ksp.sk>
	<1e3adca60903101421i7898b9e1s468c85b82a25682e@mail.gmail.com>
	<1e3adca60903120006q38f294a3hf553b10ab04cbe41@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B8D5AE.3090409@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904020130l6a068189j6b572c0f9ce15fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D5DF4F.2000908@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904030440u324612c3ua5936e1687b467cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D7C335.7040003@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904050552u1118fe9cx782dc7beb60fea92@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D9BF51.9090807@om.ksp.sk>
Message-ID: <40cd9ce40904060329h51260d60kf2eb99b4d3ffb4ec@mail.gmail.com>

2009/4/6 Richard Kralovic <riso at om.ksp.sk>

> > Then I restarted, and lead the xcom.... script. It runs ok (no errors).
> > But when I "open" the keyboard, it is not transparent, and the circles
> > from "u..." clockwise or the way back just change the size. Have I
> > really installed "your" qwo package ? How can I check please
>
> Hmmm... you can e.g. check if /usr/bin/qwo contains string
> NET_WM_WINDOW_OPACITY (run
> strings /usr/bin/qwo | grep NET_WM_WINDOW_OPACITY
> ).


--> i tried the command:
strings /usr/bin/qwo | grep NET_WM_WINDOW_OPACITY
I got nothing


> Or you can just reinstall qwo (I have recompiled it now to be sure
> that the version is correct).


--> I tried and could not (the -force-depends did not help)

root at om-gta02 ~ $ opkg install -force-depends
http://kedrigern.dcs.fmph.uniba.sk
/~riso/Openmoko/qwo/qwo_0.4-r0_armv4t.ipk
Downloading
http://kedrigern.dcs.fmph.uniba.sk/~riso/Openmoko/qwo/qwo_0.4-r0_armv4t.ipk
Multiple packages (qwo and qwo) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER.
Using latest.
Multiple packages (qwo and qwo) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER.
Using latest.
Multiple packages (qwo and qwo) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER.
Using latest.
Multiple packages (qwo and qwo) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER.
Using latest.
Upgrading qwo on root from 0.4 to 0.4-r0...
Installing libimlib2-loaders (2:1.4.2.001+svnr38274-r0) to root...
Downloading
http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr/ipk/armv4t/libimlib2-loaders_1.4.2.001+svnr38274-r0_armv4t.ipk
Collected errors:
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/tiff.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/bz2.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/bmp.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/png.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/xpm.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/pnm.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/tga.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/lbm.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/jpeg.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/argb.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
 * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
/usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/zlib.so
    But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2


If you want to test if the transparency works at all, you can try
> opkg upgrade
> opkg install transset
> transset
> and click any window - it should be transparent afterwards.
>

--> it worked well !


Thanks for your patience :D
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From fercerpav at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 12:37:22 2009
From: fercerpav at gmail.com (Paul Fertser)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:37:22 +0400
Subject: Problems in openmoko-messages
In-Reply-To: <ade383570904060245s626b1434qda3803521589ee12@mail.gmail.com>
	(foringer@gmail.com's message of "Mon\,
	6 Apr 2009 13\:45\:50 +0400")
References: <ade383570904040423p2a328895o8353a75820eb681f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904041518.08290.mok@mnet-online.de>
	<ade383570904060245s626b1434qda3803521589ee12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m2ocvadq59.fsf@home.pavel.comp>

"foringer at gmail.com" <foringer at gmail.com> writes:
> OK. Next question: can I use another application (maybe console one)
> for sending SMS-messages in my native lang?

Ok, looks like the problem is fixed. :)
See [1].

Would you please avoid top-posting the next time?

[1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Localization
-- 
Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
mailto:fercerpav at gmail.com



From robin.paulson at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 12:44:05 2009
From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 22:44:05 +1200
Subject: Camera module as back case (was Re: Slashdotted)
In-Reply-To: <CCE2D7D2-D1C1-4040-92A6-F22366E038DF@lollisoft.de>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com> <49D99BE6.9060404@openmoko.com>
	<d3e504410904052312p29c6250cj679d16b9c36a2de8@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D9B3CB.1030108@openmoko.com>
	<5c6ceea80904060129pc64c5cfqa10780114a84f2e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<CCE2D7D2-D1C1-4040-92A6-F22366E038DF@lollisoft.de>
Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904060344p2bc556f8tc635b4f72e730a5f@mail.gmail.com>

2009/4/6 Lothar Behrens <lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de>:
> About the camera issue:
>
> I have read something about a small computer base case that has a jack
> or bus system ontop of it's
> case. That way it is extendable with cameras or what ever. I don't
> know where it was but it was cool.
>
> Why not think about a back case that includes a cam and using contacts
> in the inner housing to connect
> the cam to, say an I2C bus or even an USB hub (USB2)?

excellent - i'd thought of the idea myself, via an internal usb hub
(from a disassembled, tiny 4-way usb hub i bought), as had a few
others i think.

there were a few tentative steps on the wiki some months back
concerning alternate cases, and this was one suggested idea

i just got back from a talk on reprap, so i'm itching to find
something i can make, and this would be a good start



From lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de  Mon Apr  6 12:43:36 2009
From: lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de (Lothar Behrens)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:43:36 +0200
Subject: GPS emergency call standards
In-Reply-To: <20090319001857.GJ27350@sygehus.dk>
References: <B27182CA-2E73-4213-9B47-781D1F1B8464@baumann.name>
	<20090312211227.GJ3891@prithivi.gnumonks.org>
	<49BFAC72.1060006@baumann.name> <20090319001857.GJ27350@sygehus.dk>
Message-ID: <18D280EA-F5C2-4E07-B2BF-5CCBA32A048E@lollisoft.de>

Besides all the discussion. Is this here really yet patented?

http://www.brainshell.de/patentmarkt_ikt.php
http://www.brainshell.de/upload/Openmoko_de01b9e8b4.pdf

If a patent would disable an emergeny functionality like automating  
the alert
in case of 'changing behaviour' (accels), or it makes the device a bit  
more
expensive, because it helps save live, I must say patents are the  
wrong way.

I think, such an important issue should not be patented, because it is  
a feature
all phones should become and not only these whose manufacturer are  
willing
to pay the patent licenses.

Also, in my view, the amount of invention is not quite high to  
eligible for a patent.

What do you think?

Is there prior art?
http://www.steiger-stiftung.de/GPS-Ortung-So-funktioniert-s.67.0.html

An interactive location is established and is provided by many  
services, does an automation
of them by a change in accelorometer behavior not be always the  
conclusion to be the best?

Wouldn't that idea in someones head earlyer?

Lothar

Am 19.03.2009 um 01:18 schrieb Rask Ingemann Lambertsen:

> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 02:58:10PM +0100, Tilman Baumann wrote:
>> Harald Welte wrote:
>>> On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 12:06:20PM +0100, Tilman Baumann wrote:
>>>>
>>>> PS: According to Wikipedia, 112 works on all GSM networks no  
>>>> matter if
>>>> the number is a emergency number in tie state.
>>>
>>> that depends on what the network operator does.
>>
>> Yep, but there seems to be some international agreement on the
>> significance of 112.
>> I don't have any quote yet, but as far as I understood it is even
>> required to by the GSM standards. But that might be wrong.
>
>   A D112 AT command is mentioned in the 3GPP TS 07.07 specification  
> which you
> can get from here:
> http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/html-info/0707.htm
> Quoting section "8.3	Enter PIN +CPIN":
>
> 	NOTE:	Commands which interact with ME that are accepted when ME is
> 		pending SIM PIN, SIM PUK, or PH?SIM are: +CGMI, +CGMM,
> 		+CGMR, +CGSN, D112; (emergency call), +CPAS, +CFUN, +CPIN,
> 		+CDIS (read and test command only), and +CIND (read and test
> 		command only).
>
>   I don't know where the D112 command is documented. I also haven't  
> looked
> through the commands to see if there is a loophole such that you can  
> dial
> 112 without making an emergency call.
>
>   Btw, a few days ago danish media had a news story about unintended
> emergency calls. It appears that the answering machine offered by many
> telcos is partly to blame. What happens is that you press and hold  
> "1" to
> speed dial your answering machine, press "1" to listen to a message  
> and
> press "2" to delete a message. Doing so leaves the number 112 on the
> display...
>
> -- 
> Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
> Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for  
> a year
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

-- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
Lothar Behrens
Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
73252 Lenningen











From riso at om.ksp.sk  Mon Apr  6 12:47:46 2009
From: riso at om.ksp.sk (Richard Kralovic)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:47:46 +0200
Subject: Transparent keyboard in illume
In-Reply-To: <40cd9ce40904060329h51260d60kf2eb99b4d3ffb4ec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49B41F29.30802@om.ksp.sk>	<1e3adca60903101421i7898b9e1s468c85b82a25682e@mail.gmail.com>	<1e3adca60903120006q38f294a3hf553b10ab04cbe41@mail.gmail.com>	<49B8D5AE.3090409@om.ksp.sk>	<40cd9ce40904020130l6a068189j6b572c0f9ce15fd@mail.gmail.com>	<49D5DF4F.2000908@om.ksp.sk>	<40cd9ce40904030440u324612c3ua5936e1687b467cd@mail.gmail.com>	<49D7C335.7040003@om.ksp.sk>	<40cd9ce40904050552u1118fe9cx782dc7beb60fea92@mail.gmail.com>	<49D9BF51.9090807@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904060329h51260d60kf2eb99b4d3ffb4ec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D9DDD2.8030805@om.ksp.sk>

Hello,

> I got nothing

So it looks like the qwo can not be configured because of dependency
problems with imlib2. Which version of imlib2 do you use? Maybe you
could try to remove imlib2 (with -force-depends) and install it again
from the repository on meru? Or maybe you can try the shr-unstable feed
(i.e. modify your /etc/opkg/meru.conf to use shr-unstable, opkg update,
and opkg install qwo)?

	Richard

>  
> 
>     Or you can just reinstall qwo (I have recompiled it now to be sure
>     that the version is correct).
> 
> 
> --> I tried and could not (the -force-depends did not help)
>  
> root at om-gta02 ~ $ opkg install -force-depends
> http://kedrigern.dcs.fmph.uniba.sk
> /~riso/Openmoko/qwo/qwo_0.4-r0_armv4t.ipk
> Downloading
> http://kedrigern.dcs.fmph.uniba.sk/~riso/Openmoko/qwo/qwo_0.4-r0_armv4t.ipk
> Multiple packages (qwo and qwo) providing same name marked HOLD or
> PREFER.  Using latest.
> Multiple packages (qwo and qwo) providing same name marked HOLD or
> PREFER.  Using latest.
> Multiple packages (qwo and qwo) providing same name marked HOLD or
> PREFER.  Using latest.
> Multiple packages (qwo and qwo) providing same name marked HOLD or
> PREFER.  Using latest.
> Upgrading qwo on root from 0.4 to 0.4-r0...
> Installing libimlib2-loaders (2:1.4.2.001+svnr38274-r0) to root...
> Downloading
> http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr/ipk/armv4t/libimlib2-loaders_1.4.2.001+svnr38274-r0_armv4t.ipk
> Collected errors:
>  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/tiff.so
>     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
>  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/bz2.so
>     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
>  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/bmp.so
>     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
>  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/png.so
>     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
>  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/xpm.so
>     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
>  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/pnm.so
>     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
>  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/tga.so
>     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
>  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/lbm.so
>     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
>  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/jpeg.so
>     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
>  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/argb.so
>     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
>  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/zlib.so
>     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
> 
> 
>     If you want to test if the transparency works at all, you can try
>     opkg upgrade
>     opkg install transset
>     transset
>     and click any window - it should be transparent afterwards.
> 
> 
> --> it worked well !
>  
> 
> Thanks for your patience :D
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community




From robin.paulson at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 12:49:09 2009
From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 22:49:09 +1200
Subject: Camera module as back case (was Re: Slashdotted)
In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904060344p2bc556f8tc635b4f72e730a5f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com> <49D99BE6.9060404@openmoko.com>
	<d3e504410904052312p29c6250cj679d16b9c36a2de8@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D9B3CB.1030108@openmoko.com>
	<5c6ceea80904060129pc64c5cfqa10780114a84f2e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<CCE2D7D2-D1C1-4040-92A6-F22366E038DF@lollisoft.de>
	<2f3aa2770904060344p2bc556f8tc635b4f72e730a5f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904060349t74f41562i34196baece2d0bff@mail.gmail.com>

2009/4/6 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson at gmail.com>:
> there were a few tentative steps on the wiki some months back
> concerning alternate cases, and this was one suggested idea

lots around here:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Hardware_ideas

expansion back looks like it covers your camera module



From tanuva at googlemail.com  Mon Apr  6 13:01:18 2009
From: tanuva at googlemail.com (Marcel)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:01:18 +0200
Subject: [Debian/fsod] Failed to register to network
Message-ID: <200904061301.18560.tanuva@gmail.com>

Moin,

Since yesterday (iirc) zhone always complains about not being able to register 
to the gsm network, .xsession-errors tells me this:

Failed to register to network
network status changed: dbus.Dictionary({dbus.String(u'registration'): 
dbus.String(u'denied', variant_level=1), dbus.String(u'strength'): dbus.Int32
(52, variant_level=1), dbus.String(u'mode'): dbus.String(u'automatic', 
variant_level=1), dbus.String(u'act'): dbus.String(u'GSM', variant_level=1)}, 
signature=dbus.Signature('sv'))

"registration denied" - okay. But why? The debuglog of frameworkd says 
something about "no network code", but I cannot interpret the AT commands :)

The log can be found here: http://pastebin.ca/1383626

My actions:
1. /etc/init.d/fso-frameworkd start
2. start zhone
3. enter PIN
4. see the error in the log (tail -f)
5. /etc/init.d/fso-frameworkd stop

Then the error occurs. The strange thing is: Yesterday I still received an SMS 
in this state. Can someone light this up?

--
Marcel



From lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de  Mon Apr  6 13:09:52 2009
From: lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de (Lothar Behrens)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:09:52 +0200
Subject: Camera module as back case (was Re: Slashdotted)
In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904060349t74f41562i34196baece2d0bff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com> <49D99BE6.9060404@openmoko.com>
	<d3e504410904052312p29c6250cj679d16b9c36a2de8@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D9B3CB.1030108@openmoko.com>
	<5c6ceea80904060129pc64c5cfqa10780114a84f2e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<CCE2D7D2-D1C1-4040-92A6-F22366E038DF@lollisoft.de>
	<2f3aa2770904060344p2bc556f8tc635b4f72e730a5f@mail.gmail.com>
	<2f3aa2770904060349t74f41562i34196baece2d0bff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <92248263-938E-44A0-BFE2-BA8E237318B9@lollisoft.de>

I read the issue with removing the hole. The space in that 'hole'  
could be used as the
docking bay for extensions. Ok, the mic should somehow moved, or a  
'voicepipe' could
be used to direct the acustics.

A good starting point to use the space somehow useful.

Lothar

Am 06.04.2009 um 12:49 schrieb Robin Paulson:

> 2009/4/6 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson at gmail.com>:
>> there were a few tentative steps on the wiki some months back
>> concerning alternate cases, and this was one suggested idea
>
> lots around here:
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Hardware_ideas
>
> expansion back looks like it covers your camera module
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>

-- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
Lothar Behrens
Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
73252 Lenningen











From kimaidou at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 13:50:13 2009
From: kimaidou at gmail.com (kimaidou)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:50:13 +0200
Subject: Transparent keyboard in illume
In-Reply-To: <49D9DDD2.8030805@om.ksp.sk>
References: <49B41F29.30802@om.ksp.sk> <49B8D5AE.3090409@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904020130l6a068189j6b572c0f9ce15fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D5DF4F.2000908@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904030440u324612c3ua5936e1687b467cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D7C335.7040003@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904050552u1118fe9cx782dc7beb60fea92@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D9BF51.9090807@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904060329h51260d60kf2eb99b4d3ffb4ec@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D9DDD2.8030805@om.ksp.sk>
Message-ID: <40cd9ce40904060450u3a2a1db7v3a21c5f48a3e7133@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

Thanks again ! I managed to install it. for this, I had to remove imlib2 and
then reinstall your qwo package !:

opkg remove imlib2 -recursive
opkg remove qwo (if not removed by the precedent line)
opkg install
http://kedrigern.dcs.fmph.uniba.sk/~riso/Openmoko/qwo/qwo_0.4-r0_armv4t.ipk

And BIM, a great transparent keyboard !!

Big question : Have you proposed to the SHR guys to add this functionnality
by default on the next testing release ?

Thanks anyway
I will try to write a wiki page on this, if you don't mind

2009/4/6 Richard Kralovic <riso at om.ksp.sk>

> Hello,
>
> > I got nothing
>
> So it looks like the qwo can not be configured because of dependency
> problems with imlib2. Which version of imlib2 do you use? Maybe you
> could try to remove imlib2 (with -force-depends) and install it again
> from the repository on meru? Or maybe you can try the shr-unstable feed
> (i.e. modify your /etc/opkg/meru.conf to use shr-unstable, opkg update,
> and opkg install qwo)?
>
>        Richard
>
> >
> >
> >     Or you can just reinstall qwo (I have recompiled it now to be sure
> >     that the version is correct).
> >
> >
> > --> I tried and could not (the -force-depends did not help)
> >
> > root at om-gta02 ~ $ opkg install -force-depends
> > http://kedrigern.dcs.fmph.uniba.sk
> > /~riso/Openmoko/qwo/qwo_0.4-r0_armv4t.ipk
> > Downloading
> >
> http://kedrigern.dcs.fmph.uniba.sk/~riso/Openmoko/qwo/qwo_0.4-r0_armv4t.ipk<http://kedrigern.dcs.fmph.uniba.sk/%7Eriso/Openmoko/qwo/qwo_0.4-r0_armv4t.ipk>
> > Multiple packages (qwo and qwo) providing same name marked HOLD or
> > PREFER.  Using latest.
> > Multiple packages (qwo and qwo) providing same name marked HOLD or
> > PREFER.  Using latest.
> > Multiple packages (qwo and qwo) providing same name marked HOLD or
> > PREFER.  Using latest.
> > Multiple packages (qwo and qwo) providing same name marked HOLD or
> > PREFER.  Using latest.
> > Upgrading qwo on root from 0.4 to 0.4-r0...
> > Installing libimlib2-loaders (2:1.4.2.001+svnr38274-r0) to root...
> > Downloading
> >
> http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/~rkralovi/shr/ipk/armv4t/libimlib2-loaders_1.4.2.001+svnr38274-r0_armv4t.ipk<http://meru.inf.ethz.ch/%7Erkralovi/shr/ipk/armv4t/libimlib2-loaders_1.4.2.001+svnr38274-r0_armv4t.ipk>
> > Collected errors:
> >  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> > /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/tiff.so
> >     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
> >  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> > /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/bz2.so
> >     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
> >  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> > /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/bmp.so
> >     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
> >  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> > /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/png.so
> >     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
> >  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> > /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/xpm.so
> >     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
> >  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> > /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/pnm.so
> >     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
> >  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> > /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/tga.so
> >     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
> >  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> > /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/lbm.so
> >     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
> >  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> > /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/jpeg.so
> >     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
> >  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> > /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/argb.so
> >     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
> >  * Package libimlib2-loaders wants to install file
> > /usr/lib/imlib2/loaders/zlib.so
> >     But that file is already provided by package  * imlib2
> >
> >
> >     If you want to test if the transparency works at all, you can try
> >     opkg upgrade
> >     opkg install transset
> >     transset
> >     and click any window - it should be transparent afterwards.
> >
> >
> > --> it worked well !
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your patience :D
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community at lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
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From lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de  Mon Apr  6 13:54:28 2009
From: lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de (Lothar Behrens)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:54:28 +0200
Subject: Camera module as back case (was Re: Slashdotted)
In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904060349t74f41562i34196baece2d0bff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com> <49D99BE6.9060404@openmoko.com>
	<d3e504410904052312p29c6250cj679d16b9c36a2de8@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D9B3CB.1030108@openmoko.com>
	<5c6ceea80904060129pc64c5cfqa10780114a84f2e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<CCE2D7D2-D1C1-4040-92A6-F22366E038DF@lollisoft.de>
	<2f3aa2770904060344p2bc556f8tc635b4f72e730a5f@mail.gmail.com>
	<2f3aa2770904060349t74f41562i34196baece2d0bff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43BB16E3-3AF7-4031-A73E-C47B69511603@lollisoft.de>

The expansion spacer is exactly what could be done for a hands on  
hobby electronics playground :-)
(http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist/ExpansionSpacer)

What I mean with the replacement back case, is that you don't need to  
screw up the torx and add the
spacer. The end user don't like to fiddle with that. He simply wants  
to change the front and back covers
by ones with other color.

Adding a cam inside there would be doable without the risk of less  
stability of the back cover to keep
the howsing closed.

The issue is with the bigger or second battery. Does it still keep  
closed or could it easyly fall out due to
the wight.

Modifying the battery housing to be more likely a snap in for the  
bettery would solve this issue. With the
higher cover also a different battery could be used and with the snap  
in mechanics it will hopefully no problem
for the stability.

The contacts for the signals, whatever is used, should be similar to  
the battery contacts. Using any jack like the
USB on the outside is fiddling.

I know it by fiddling my car holder for the neo to connect the usb  
power cable.

For sample, we could use the connector aparatus like that from the SD  
card. Using a one side mounted plate with a
spring behind the other side the 'SD card' would propably savely  
'connect' to the SD card connector used as the jack.
(If the usual spring based connector pins like the battery aren't  
enough)

I don't know how stable the hinge would be as also the moving wires  
that goes to the cover's electronic, but it's worth a try.
The snap in mechanism of the cover will help adjusting the place where  
the jack must be.

Lothar

Am 06.04.2009 um 12:49 schrieb Robin Paulson:

> 2009/4/6 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson at gmail.com>:
>> there were a few tentative steps on the wiki some months back
>> concerning alternate cases, and this was one suggested idea
>
> lots around here:
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Hardware_ideas
>
> expansion back looks like it covers your camera module
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>

-- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
Lothar Behrens
Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
73252 Lenningen











From seba.dos1 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 14:38:28 2009
From: seba.dos1 at gmail.com (Johny Tenfinger)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 14:38:28 +0200
Subject: Transparent keyboard in illume
In-Reply-To: <40cd9ce40904060450u3a2a1db7v3a21c5f48a3e7133@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49B41F29.30802@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904020130l6a068189j6b572c0f9ce15fd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<49D5DF4F.2000908@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904030440u324612c3ua5936e1687b467cd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<49D7C335.7040003@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904050552u1118fe9cx782dc7beb60fea92@mail.gmail.com> 
	<49D9BF51.9090807@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904060329h51260d60kf2eb99b4d3ffb4ec@mail.gmail.com> 
	<49D9DDD2.8030805@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904060450u3a2a1db7v3a21c5f48a3e7133@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c30e08170904060538y312abae4o54d55e0cf8963c18@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 13:50, kimaidou <kimaidou at gmail.com> wrote:
> Big question : Have you proposed to the SHR guys to add this functionnality
> by default on the next testing release ?

It can't be in any distro by default as it's breaking Illume keyboard.
When patch will be more flexible, I will add it to SHR (patch for
compositing with Xglamo is already in SHR for some time)



From prishelec at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 14:59:24 2009
From: prishelec at gmail.com (Leonti Bielski)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 14:59:24 +0200
Subject: eds-dbus - how to install?
Message-ID: <815cb1720904060559h6a31a866h6db2ecc43dbbefe1@mail.gmail.com>

Hello!
I'm having troubles installing eds-dbus.
The package itself is just 11 kb and contains only pixmaps.

After reading that pimlico uses Embedded Evolution Data Server so I've
installed it.
Applications work but I don't see any dbus objects corresponding to EDS.

How do I enable dbus for embedded EDS?

Leonti



From digitalpioneer at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 15:08:22 2009
From: digitalpioneer at gmail.com (The Digital Pioneer)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 08:08:22 -0500
Subject: Just Got Buzz Fixed
In-Reply-To: <200904060627.44525.vendion@charter.net>
References: <87ocvaquc7.fsf@quasar.esben-stien.name>
	<ffce06340904052033j5fed4374yc9252c548dd6a5dd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<200904060627.44525.vendion@charter.net>
Message-ID: <ffce06340904060608v47378f03xe8f3eb26db6f1989@mail.gmail.com>

LOL @ Adam

Steve: I believe it's 850... It's the one used in North America, whichever
that is...
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From lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de  Mon Apr  6 15:08:56 2009
From: lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de (Lothar Behrens)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:08:56 +0200
Subject: CAD files and gCAD3D
Message-ID: <12522E81-5C68-4FD6-89D1-6BD351F8794F@lollisoft.de>

Hi,

I have just seen on the page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CAD_models  
that
gCAD3D could be used for previewing the CAD models.

Does it support boolean operations to derive other housings?

Is this tool propably usable to export in other formats?

I have tried to play with blender and it is a great animation tool. It  
also is relatively
easy to use when some introductory videos or screen casts are followed.

Also this application runs on Mac OS X I am mostly running.

Thanks

Lothar

-- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
Lothar Behrens
Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
73252 Lenningen











From pander at users.sourceforge.net  Mon Apr  6 15:49:58 2009
From: pander at users.sourceforge.net (Pander)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:49:58 +0200
Subject: Complete overview of CAD files and software for custom cases
Message-ID: <49DA0886.9080707@users.sourceforge.net>

Hi all,

As Lothar already noticed when I was editing the Wiki, multiple
applications exist for viewing or manipulating the CAD model files that
make up the case as a whole and the individual parts.

It took some effort to scrape all the knowledge together but now an
overview of the downloadable files, formats applications and parts is
now out there for all to use and extend.

Please see:
  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CAD_models
and I hope many contributions will be made.

Regards,

Pander



From pander at users.sourceforge.net  Mon Apr  6 15:58:58 2009
From: pander at users.sourceforge.net (Pander)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:58:58 +0200
Subject: GPS emergency call standards
In-Reply-To: <18D280EA-F5C2-4E07-B2BF-5CCBA32A048E@lollisoft.de>
References: <B27182CA-2E73-4213-9B47-781D1F1B8464@baumann.name>	<20090312211227.GJ3891@prithivi.gnumonks.org>	<49BFAC72.1060006@baumann.name>
	<20090319001857.GJ27350@sygehus.dk>
	<18D280EA-F5C2-4E07-B2BF-5CCBA32A048E@lollisoft.de>
Message-ID: <49DA0AA2.5020308@users.sourceforge.net>

Perhaps you can also merge the functionality with
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Anti-Theft_Mode and avoid the patent thing.

Lothar Behrens wrote:
> Besides all the discussion. Is this here really yet patented?
> 
> http://www.brainshell.de/patentmarkt_ikt.php
> http://www.brainshell.de/upload/Openmoko_de01b9e8b4.pdf
> 
> If a patent would disable an emergeny functionality like automating  
> the alert
> in case of 'changing behaviour' (accels), or it makes the device a bit  
> more
> expensive, because it helps save live, I must say patents are the  
> wrong way.
> 
> I think, such an important issue should not be patented, because it is  
> a feature
> all phones should become and not only these whose manufacturer are  
> willing
> to pay the patent licenses.
> 
> Also, in my view, the amount of invention is not quite high to  
> eligible for a patent.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Is there prior art?
> http://www.steiger-stiftung.de/GPS-Ortung-So-funktioniert-s.67.0.html
> 
> An interactive location is established and is provided by many  
> services, does an automation
> of them by a change in accelorometer behavior not be always the  
> conclusion to be the best?
> 
> Wouldn't that idea in someones head earlyer?
> 
> Lothar
> 
> Am 19.03.2009 um 01:18 schrieb Rask Ingemann Lambertsen:
> 
>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 02:58:10PM +0100, Tilman Baumann wrote:
>>> Harald Welte wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 12:06:20PM +0100, Tilman Baumann wrote:
>>>>> PS: According to Wikipedia, 112 works on all GSM networks no  
>>>>> matter if
>>>>> the number is a emergency number in tie state.
>>>> that depends on what the network operator does.
>>> Yep, but there seems to be some international agreement on the
>>> significance of 112.
>>> I don't have any quote yet, but as far as I understood it is even
>>> required to by the GSM standards. But that might be wrong.
>>   A D112 AT command is mentioned in the 3GPP TS 07.07 specification  
>> which you
>> can get from here:
>> http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/html-info/0707.htm
>> Quoting section "8.3	Enter PIN +CPIN":
>>
>> 	NOTE:	Commands which interact with ME that are accepted when ME is
>> 		pending SIM PIN, SIM PUK, or PH?SIM are: +CGMI, +CGMM,
>> 		+CGMR, +CGSN, D112; (emergency call), +CPAS, +CFUN, +CPIN,
>> 		+CDIS (read and test command only), and +CIND (read and test
>> 		command only).
>>
>>   I don't know where the D112 command is documented. I also haven't  
>> looked
>> through the commands to see if there is a loophole such that you can  
>> dial
>> 112 without making an emergency call.
>>
>>   Btw, a few days ago danish media had a news story about unintended
>> emergency calls. It appears that the answering machine offered by many
>> telcos is partly to blame. What happens is that you press and hold  
>> "1" to
>> speed dial your answering machine, press "1" to listen to a message  
>> and
>> press "2" to delete a message. Doing so leaves the number 112 on the
>> display...
>>
>> -- 
>> Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
>> Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for  
>> a year
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
> Lothar Behrens
> Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
> 73252 Lenningen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community




From olofsj at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 16:12:22 2009
From: olofsj at gmail.com (Olof Sjobergh)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 16:12:22 +0200
Subject: [SHR] Packaging extra fonts
In-Reply-To: <49D9C3AE.9040206@users.sourceforge.net>
References: <49D9C3AE.9040206@users.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <82e505fc0904060712l731feb59tf918b49d6a6ed7ce@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Pander <pander at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I need some extra fonts to display kanji. I have manged to copy some
> .ttf files manually and that works. Now, I would like to package these
> fonts in an .opkg file. do I need to call some executables to properly
> register the ttf files or is putting the files in the correct directory
> suffiecient?

Hi,

If you want Japanese fonts, the following two fonts are already
available and packaged for SHR:

ttf-sazanami-mincho
ttf-sazanami-gothic

You can just install them with opkg.

Best regards,

Olof Sj?bergh



From alastair at truebox.co.uk  Mon Apr  6 16:13:06 2009
From: alastair at truebox.co.uk (Alastair Johnson)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:13:06 +0100
Subject: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!
In-Reply-To: <3494db260904050352q4412e91drdf7f5174a040bc98@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>	<49D792DC.7070908@truebox.co.uk>
	<3494db260904050352q4412e91drdf7f5174a040bc98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49DA0DF2.2080305@truebox.co.uk>

Tony Berth wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Alastair Johnson
> <alastair at truebox.co.uk <mailto:alastair at truebox.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>     Tony Berth wrote:
>     > - tangoGPS still crashes when trying to change the settings :(
>
>     IIRC there's a missing dependency on dbus-x11 which provides the
>     session
>     bus that it uses to access the config. Install it then reboot and all
>     should be fine.
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>
> sorry but what's the name of that dependency? Can I install it via opkg?

opkg install dbus-x11



From dirk.gassen at web.de  Mon Apr  6 16:37:29 2009
From: dirk.gassen at web.de (D. Gassen)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 07:37:29 -0700
Subject: Navit skins...
In-Reply-To: <grcift$8ds$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <grcift$8ds$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <650EDDC5-5205-4EA0-A128-36140B2B84D2@web.de>


Am 06.04.2009 um 02:49 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Trevi?o):

> Hello, some days ago I saw this nice skin for Navit [1] on scap.
> Please, could the author share it? :P
>
> Anyway, how can these skins be written?

Maybe you want to check out [1], [2] and [3].

I stumbled accross these pages by searching for Mineque on the  
documentation wiki (they had a screenshot of a skin called Mineque on  
their main page).

I was quite amazed about the possibilities of this software :-)

> And... How can be enabled the 3d-view? Should I change something in my
> navit.xml to get it working with latest svn version?

On [1] they mention a "cegui" (not supported anymore) that can be  
started in 3D mode by specifying:

> <gui type="cegui" tilt="400" view_mode="3D" skin="Mineque" />
I haven't tried if it works with any other GUI's but maybe it's worth  
giving it a try?

Dirk

[1] http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Configuring_Navit
[2] http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Skinning_the_SDL_GUI
[3] http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/OSD


From riso at om.ksp.sk  Mon Apr  6 16:47:18 2009
From: riso at om.ksp.sk (Richard Kralovic)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:47:18 +0200
Subject: Transparent keyboard in illume
In-Reply-To: <40cd9ce40904060450u3a2a1db7v3a21c5f48a3e7133@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49B41F29.30802@om.ksp.sk>
	<49B8D5AE.3090409@om.ksp.sk>	<40cd9ce40904020130l6a068189j6b572c0f9ce15fd@mail.gmail.com>	<49D5DF4F.2000908@om.ksp.sk>	<40cd9ce40904030440u324612c3ua5936e1687b467cd@mail.gmail.com>	<49D7C335.7040003@om.ksp.sk>	<40cd9ce40904050552u1118fe9cx782dc7beb60fea92@mail.gmail.com>	<49D9BF51.9090807@om.ksp.sk>	<40cd9ce40904060329h51260d60kf2eb99b4d3ffb4ec@mail.gmail.com>	<49D9DDD2.8030805@om.ksp.sk>
	<40cd9ce40904060450u3a2a1db7v3a21c5f48a3e7133@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49DA15F6.10407@om.ksp.sk>

Hello,

> Thanks anyway

You are welcome :-)

> I will try to write a wiki page on this, if you don't mind

Sure, I will be happy about that.

Greets
	Richard

P.S. I am testing just now some ideas how to enhance the accuracy of
qwo, so hopefully it will be even more finger-friendly soon ;-)



From mail at 3v1n0.net  Mon Apr  6 17:26:42 2009
From: mail at 3v1n0.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Marco_Trevisan_=28Trevi=F1o=29=22?=)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 17:26:42 +0200
Subject: Navit skins...
In-Reply-To: <650EDDC5-5205-4EA0-A128-36140B2B84D2@web.de>
References: <grcift$8ds$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<650EDDC5-5205-4EA0-A128-36140B2B84D2@web.de>
Message-ID: <grd689$bvi$1@ger.gmane.org>

D. Gassen wrote:
> Am 06.04.2009 um 02:49 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Trevi?o):
> 
>> Hello, some days ago I saw this nice skin for Navit [1] on scap.
>> Please, could the author share it? :P
>>
>> Anyway, how can these skins be written?
> 
> Maybe you want to check out [1], [2] and [3].

Thanks after few searches I found that too :P

> I stumbled accross these pages by searching for Mineque on the  
> documentation wiki (they had a screenshot of a skin called Mineque on  
> their main page).
> 
> I was quite amazed about the possibilities of this software :-)

Me too ;)

>> And... How can be enabled the 3d-view? Should I change something in my
>> navit.xml to get it working with latest svn version?
> 
> On [1] they mention a "cegui" (not supported anymore) that can be  
> started in 3D mode by specifying:

Well, it should work also in the gtk view using a svn version of navit
(check also its wiki homepage), but it doesn't to me. :(

-- 
Trevi?o's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/




From lalo.martins at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 17:38:42 2009
From: lalo.martins at gmail.com (Lalo Martins)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:38:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Slashdotted
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <grd7m2$u5h$1@ger.gmane.org>

This is getting ridiculous.  Now the misreportage is spreading through 
the blogosphere:
http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=4214
which was picked up by Giz and Engadget:
http://i.gizmodo.com/5200285/openmoko-cancels-freerunner-the-original-
open-source-linux-phone
http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/06/openmoko-freerunner-canceled-staff-
slashed/

I'd strongly recommend OpenMoko puts out a press release or something...

best,
                                               Lalo Martins
-- 
      So many of our dreams at first seem impossible,
       then they seem improbable, and then, when we
       summon the will, they soon become inevitable.
                           -----
                  http://lalomartins.info/
GNU: never give up freedom              http://www.gnu.org/




From pander at users.sourceforge.net  Mon Apr  6 17:41:42 2009
From: pander at users.sourceforge.net (Pander)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 17:41:42 +0200
Subject: Three different databases for gsm celltower locations
In-Reply-To: <49DA2195.7090803@free.fr>
References: <20090403220543.GA19693@excalibur.local>	<9ab347b00904031742u1bbea39ft8cfd9b3cb64bd4fe@mail.gmail.com>	<49D75AA4.8070502@free.fr>	<20090406134646.GE13307@excalibur.local>
	<49DA2195.7090803@free.fr>
Message-ID: <49DA22B6.6000608@users.sourceforge.net>

I have some more examples with some test data I still have to publish.
Project is here: http://athirne.sourceforge.net/

Database is well designed, I will make a post when I have the code out
there.

Onen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Stefan Schmidt wrote:
>> On Sat, 2009-04-04 at 15:03, Onen wrote:
>>   
>>> Another point is the other signals than GSM. Our initial vision was to  
>>> build a database of communicating objects, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc...  
>>>     
>> Can anybody give me some ideas how BT should be useful here? From what I know
>> there are very little fixed BT accesspoints around. Likely to be killed by wifi
>> anyway. I associate with bluetooth something that is mobile itself therefor not
>> useful to get an idea rom your current location from.
>>
>>   
> Well maybe Bluetooth was not the best example. I wanted to put the 
> emphasis that the original idea of openBmap was to get a map of all 
> communicating objects (RFID, future things, ...). Nevertheless here are 
> some examples of static BT points we may encounter pretty soon:
> 
> * some experiments have been carried on in Paris subway about BT beacons 
> which help blind people find their ways in the labyrinth. They have a 
> special device at the ear, which says where they are, and if they go in 
> the wrong direction, etc...
> 
> * ad panels in the subway, or on the street, may have bluetooth to 
> distribute details to phones
> 
> * in Paris, there are BT stations on the street, you can get connected 
> to with your phone, and download maps and or details of the area you 
> currently are.
> 
> A reason why BT may still last over WiFi may be the power needed to have 
> BT on in comparison of WiFi, don't you think?
> 
> If anybody sees more examples...
> 
> Onen
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> devel mailing list
> devel at lists.openmoko.org
> https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/devel




From openmoko at ginguppin.de  Mon Apr  6 18:01:11 2009
From: openmoko at ginguppin.de (arne anka)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:01:11 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <grd7m2$u5h$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<grd7m2$u5h$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <op.ury2r9q941evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>

> This is getting ridiculous.  Now the misreportage is spreading through
> the blogosphere:
> ...

in what respect a mis-reportage?
that's, what i concluded from these long mails with 99.9% quote and half a  
line at the bottom ...



From raster at rasterman.com  Mon Apr  6 18:35:13 2009
From: raster at rasterman.com (Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman))
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 02:35:13 +1000
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <49D56431.8030905@videotron.ca>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090402162338.GA1522@yamamaya.is-a-geek.org>
	<20090403110228.19a91dc1.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D56431.8030905@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <20090407023513.7b83049a.raster@rasterman.com>

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:19:45 -0400 "Iain B. FIndleton"
<ifindleton at videotron.ca> said:

> Well, that clears things up a bit. So, there is no way to get rid of the 
> draping one sees when the display is refreshed? My stuff uses double 
> buffering, but your comments appear to indicate that that is a waste of  
> time.

none. there is no vblank interrupt so you cant do "have front and back buffer
in fullscreen mode and just swap fb pointers on vblank" and writes to the
frontbuffer are slower than the refresh so you will "watch" it draw as it takes
longer to copy to screen than refresh the screen by a large margin (whereas on
most other gfx systems ever since.. it has been faster to write than refresh -
so you can wait for vblank then quickly write knowing you will stay ahead of
the rescan).

> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:23:38 +0200 Tobias Diedrich <ranma
> > +openmoko at tdiedrich.de> said:
> >
> >   
> >> Iain B. FIndleton wrote:
> >>     
> >>> A significant issue for me is the performance of the graphics display on 
> >>> the FR. I recall some discussions a while back about making use of the 
> >>> XGlamo acceleration features. Has any progress been made here? It 
> >>> appears to me that the graphics performance on the FR is poor compared 
> >>> to, for instance, the iPhone or iTouch, both of which have slower CPUs. 
> >>> When applications running on the FR have their X output routed to a 
> >>> machine with accelerated graphics, it is apparent that the FR processor 
> >>> can deliver the X events fast enough, but the FR graphics chip interface 
> >>> can't keep up.
> >>>       
> >> Isn't the glamo supposed to have one (or more?) OpenRISC cores?
> >> It would be nice to have a documented way to upload code to the
> >> core, that way it might be possible to implement the Bling on the
> >> graphics chip directly...
> >> I mean, since OpenRISC has a documented instruction set (unless
> >> they've augmented it) set I'd figure the only thing missing would
> >>  be where to put the code and how to start it...
> >>     
> >
> > this information is not even in the docs openmoko had on the glamo. there
> > is no known way to play with this core. my understanding is that it is
> > actually a relatively slow core (50mhz) and is only really for higher level
> > management of sub-systems on the glamo.
> >
> > of course here is your big problem.. you can do all this for the glamo and
> > it will never work anywhere else. it is a 1 off for 1 chip that will never
> > see the light of day in another product.
> >
> >   
> >> So, just like with the mpeg4 decoding unit, wouldn't it be
> >> possible for someone with access to the NDA documentation to write
> >> an example program that just shows how to run a simple program (e.g.
> >> bitblt) on the OpenRISC processor?
> >>     
> >
> > no. as those docs are not even in the nda docs. other than that.. bitblit is
> > documented and not related to the risc core. there is a blitter there.
> > xglamo uses even. xglamo *IS ACCELERATED* it's about as accelerated as most
> > x drivers (fills, blits). it has no accel for xrender (xglamo doesnt
> > implement enough of xrender's operations to make it worth it - again see my
> > previous mail. you'll be writing fallback software code and end up no
> > faster than where you started).
> >
> > if you want decent speed - drop to qvga. thats what glamo was really
> > designed to handle. even the 2442 (cpu) is pushing it to deal with vga
> > nicely. it can. but that generation of cpu is more geared to qvga
> > resolutions.
> >
> > the gta02 is a ferrari body (vga screen) with a lawnmower engine under it
> > (2442 +glamo). you need to drive it like a lawnmower - and then only expect
> > it to be as good as a lownmower. it looks nice parked on the street (still
> > photos) but if it moves... it will show its true nature. remove the heavy
> > ferrari body and drive it like a go-kart and you'll have more fun.
> >
> >   
> >> -- 
> >> Tobias						PGP:
> >> http://9ac7e0bc.uguu.de
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Openmoko community mailing list
> >> community at lists.openmoko.org
> >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >>
> >>     
> >
> >
> >   
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 


-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com




From openmoko at ginguppin.de  Mon Apr  6 18:50:55 2009
From: openmoko at ginguppin.de (arne anka)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:50:55 +0200
Subject: [debian] screensaver/lock for X?
Message-ID: <op.ury425ir41evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>

2007.2 had that nice screenlock where one had to move an om logo to unlock  
the screen.
with debian the only lock i get is the one from zhone which locks only  
zhone -- so, does someone know where to get that 2007.2 lock or another  
one for debian?
normal x screen locks require to type in a password which for obvious  
reasons is impossible.



From lalo.martins at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 18:52:24 2009
From: lalo.martins at gmail.com (Lalo Martins)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 16:52:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Slashdotted
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<grd7m2$u5h$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<op.ury2r9q941evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>
Message-ID: <grdc08$u5h$2@ger.gmane.org>

quoth arne anka as of Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:01:11 +0200:

>> This is getting ridiculous.  Now the misreportage is spreading through
>> the blogosphere:
>> ...
> 
> in what respect a mis-reportage?
> that's, what i concluded from these long mails with 99.9% quote and half
> a line at the bottom ...

The articles (Slashdot, Phonescoop, Engadget, Giz) are saying Freerunner 
was cancelled.  That doesn't even make sense, since Freerunner is out, 
what's there to cancel?  But I believe it was said explicitly that 
production of the Freerunner is *not* stopping... (I certainly still want 
one, buzz or not)

best,
                                               Lalo Martins
-- 
      So many of our dreams at first seem impossible,
       then they seem improbable, and then, when we
       summon the will, they soon become inevitable.
                           -----
                  http://lalomartins.info/
GNU: never give up freedom              http://www.gnu.org/




From taw at bitwiz.org.uk  Mon Apr  6 19:16:27 2009
From: taw at bitwiz.org.uk (Thomas White)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 18:16:27 +0100
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <20090404130427.GS27350@sygehus.dk>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090402162338.GA1522@yamamaya.is-a-geek.org>
	<20090403110228.19a91dc1.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D56431.8030905@videotron.ca> <20090404130427.GS27350@sygehus.dk>
Message-ID: <20090406181627.5c623798.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>

On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 15:04:27 +0200
Rask Ingemann Lambertsen <rask at sygehus.dk> wrote:

>    The Glamo doesn't have a vblank interrupt. Try to search the bug
> tracker, though, because there was a mention of an alternative means
> of getting double buffering to work.

Not having a vblank interrupt doesn't rule out double buffering in any
way.  It just means we may have to put up with tearing.

If we can make proper use of what Glamo can do, we can do back->front
buffer blitting with the 2D engine in a fast way - i.e. without
"draping", as it has been called.  That would possibly give us tearing,
since there's no nice way to synchronise our blits with vblank.

In addition, Glamo can do page flipping which should be synchronised
properly with the LCD (the datasheet claims "tearing free" operation).
Just the ticket for full-screen applications, but not great (read:
probably slow, but perhaps not - I haven't investigated properly yet)
for an X desktop with multiple windows.

Tom



From robertlazarski at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 19:24:01 2009
From: robertlazarski at gmail.com (robert lazarski)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 14:24:01 -0300
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <grdc08$u5h$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<grd7m2$u5h$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<op.ury2r9q941evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>
	<grdc08$u5h$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <f87675ee0904061024k270dad2dl6ecc95fd86682d43@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Lalo Martins <lalo.martins at gmail.com> wrote:
> quoth arne anka as of Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:01:11 +0200:
>
>>> This is getting ridiculous. ?Now the misreportage is spreading through
>>> the blogosphere:
>>> ...
>>
>> in what respect a mis-reportage?
>> that's, what i concluded from these long mails with 99.9% quote and half
>> a line at the bottom ...
>
> The articles (Slashdot, Phonescoop, Engadget, Giz) are saying Freerunner
> was cancelled. ?That doesn't even make sense, since Freerunner is out,
> what's there to cancel? ?But I believe it was said explicitly that
> production of the Freerunner is *not* stopping... (I certainly still want
> one, buzz or not)
>
> best,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Lalo Martins

Talk is cheap. The GT03 was announced and canceled, a tentative A7
release was announced, canceled and replaced with a 5 point plan or
something , so I certainly wouldn't be surprised if neither the A7 nor
plan b happen at this point. You don't fire or create conditions for
the most important kernel / hardware / UI guys to leave if you have
growth in mind. Something new may happen, but IMHO its time to at
least consider that what you see is what you get.

The one thing for sure is that OM a company generally has a bad
reputation at this point with all this recent press - unfairly or not.
If they can overcome that image and also release new products with a
skeleton staff, then I'll be pleasantly surprised - like many of us,
I'd rather not have my time spent go down the tubes.

- R



From taw at bitwiz.org.uk  Mon Apr  6 19:27:40 2009
From: taw at bitwiz.org.uk (Thomas White)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 18:27:40 +0100
Subject: Graphics Performance
In-Reply-To: <49D66E18.4010005@mauve.plus.com>
References: <49D4D716.3060503@videotron.ca>
	<20090403113639.7daf2be3.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<49D6003F.8030803@videotron.ca>
	<20090404000116.fb30ba69.raster@rasterman.com>
	<20090403142548.ae55d8f8.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>
	<20090404003822.c5fe4477.raster@rasterman.com>
	<49D61734.6090807@videotron.ca> <49D66E18.4010005@mauve.plus.com>
Message-ID: <20090406182740.93f90140.taw@bitwiz.org.uk>

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 21:14:16 +0100
Ian Stirling <OpenMoko at mauve.plus.com> wrote:

> > What is the bandwidth for memory moves?
> 
> About 6-8 or so - with 100% CPU utilisation

Or "one pixel per 2D engine clock cycle" for moves inside Glamo's memory
using its blitter (i.e. VRAM->VRAM).  I think that in the Freerunner
the relevant clock runs at 50MHz, but I haven't managed to properly
decipher what's going on in that regard.

Tom



From fernando at cmartins.nl  Mon Apr  6 19:42:30 2009
From: fernando at cmartins.nl (Fernando Martins)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:42:30 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <49D963CA.3060303@openmoko.com>
References: <755778.87166.qm@web26301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<49D963CA.3060303@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <49DA3F06.9010301@cmartins.nl>

Steve Mosher wrote:
> Thanks Anthony.
>
> For the sake of everyone who hasnt read my posts on this
> or seen the video of seans speech. Let me say that your position
> is the one we settled on. spend our resources on the FR and then
> fund a modest project: project B. Put the GTA03 on hold
> and find a way to involve the community more in its development.
>
>   
I'm not a marketing guy, but I am somewhat surprised not to see more 
references about this aspect. There is talk about products and about 
methods. All that discussion on hardware development made it clear that 
OM needs to increase market or gain share to achieve economies of scale. 
I can understand that market aspects might not come to the front, but 
maybe the community could also help here.

 From another post I understand that you are also going to niche markets 
that need custom/open phones, which looks like a sensible approach. But 
could the GTA02 be made interesting to the general public to be sold 
together with a telecom subscription? if not, is there a GTA02+ that 
could do it?

I have the impression that people are already using the phones in many 
different ways. Some do it in obvious ways for them which might not be 
so obvious to the majority. How about collecting these use cases and see 
how you can grow the current specific FR market from here, or gain 
market share from the general phone market.

Regards,
Fernando




From s.pullinger at elec.gla.ac.uk  Mon Apr  6 19:44:33 2009
From: s.pullinger at elec.gla.ac.uk (Stuart Pullinger)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:44:33 +0100
Subject: ReMoko on SHR - python error
In-Reply-To: <200904041349.09582.nan.oo@gmx.de>
References: <200904041349.09582.nan.oo@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <49DA3F81.6090005@elec.gla.ac.uk>

noo wrote:
> I got it running through:
>
> 1. /usr/bin/remoko 
> 39-41 changing remoko.remoko_server in remoko_server (and so on)
>   
Do you mean changing:
from remoko.remoko_server import *
to
from remoko_server import *
in /usr/bin/remoko?

Didn't work for me (using shr-testing). I get
root at om-gta02 ~ $ DISPLAY=:0 remoko
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/bin/remoko", line 39, in <module>
    from remoko_server import *
ImportError: No module named remoko_server
root at om-gta02 ~ $ echo $PYTHONPATH
/usr/lib/python2.6/:/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/
root at om-gta02 ~ $ ls /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/remoko
remoko_conf.py         remoko_key_mapper.py   remoko_server.py
remoko_conf.pyo        remoko_key_mapper.pyo  remoko_server.pyo

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Stuart



From mail at 3v1n0.net  Mon Apr  6 20:03:35 2009
From: mail at 3v1n0.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Marco_Trevisan_=28Trevi=F1o=29=22?=)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 20:03:35 +0200
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <grdg5n$gls$1@ger.gmane.org>

c_c wrote:
> Hi,
>   Well, it took a lot longer than I thought - but finally  - here's the alpha release of Intone - a mplayer frontend (for audio files - as of now) in C. Uses about 2% CPU (max) while running - memory goes up depending on your playlist - on my phone (~2500 songs) it uses about 15%.
>   All you need to do is download the attached ipk and install it. Intone depends on sqlite3 and libelementary. If you have elementary on your phone upgraded to a level where the elementary test application shows you a demo of sliders and genlists, Intone should run on your phone.
>   The recommended way to organise music is to put all the files in a folder (lets say Music), with sub folders named after artists (say Music ->Eagles) and with sub sub folders holding albums (that becomes Music->Eagles->Hell Freezes Over->*.mp3). That way, Intone can correctly organise your music collection into albums. It automatically creates a default playlist containing all songs and individual playlists for each album. I have added features to manage playlists and albums - but there is always scope for improvement.
>   Intone uses a sqlite database as a backend for the playlists and albums. That should, hopefully, give flexibility in adding more features later.

Very nice, as I already said :P

> 1. Feedback. - I haven't been able to add dialogs yet. So - wait a little while for Intone to finish long operations (like adding your music collection for the first time - my 2500 odd songs took about 6 secs - the button remains pressed too)

I'd suggest you to use as many ecore_* function as you can to use the e
loop without freezing your app.

> 2. Artwork - Ideas / png's / whatever
I'd add just a "tango note" and a "tango folder with note" for the songs
and the albums without a specific cover. Use that instead.

> 3. Elementary help. I have a lot of questions. Here are a few :-
>     a) How do I reduce the vert height of 1 entry in the genlist? Right now each line in the list is too high (almost 3 text lines high) - so I get only about 4 song names on the screen. Can I reduce the height to say 1.5 text line - 2 text line?

This generally is done automatically based on the elementary finger size
and on the scale factor. But I've seen that it can change also if the
icon used is quite big. However I didn't see that running intone in my
PC (using illume BTW).

>     b) How do I use the pager with a genlist? In my case the pager works - but it doesn't show the genlist - the buttons all show up though.

Give a look to my eTube code in projects.openmoko.org. It has an
implementation for it (BTW it works only in Illume WM, not in my
standard system due to the fact that the window collapse without
considering the preset evas size at all!)

>     c) Dialogs and progress bars. I know elementary doesn't have them - but can I make/have a simple ty solution for the time being?

Dialog-like windows examples are in the Elementary wiki, maybe you could
use them. Anyway I think that using an inwin is a good idea.

About the progress bar, I really think that Elementary needs a widget to
write them easily (I figure that they can do using a edj theme).

Bye!

-- 
Trevi?o's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/




From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 20:19:30 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 11:19:30 -0700
Subject: Camera module as back case (was Re: Slashdotted)
In-Reply-To: <CCE2D7D2-D1C1-4040-92A6-F22366E038DF@lollisoft.de>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>	<49D920E0.4070406@openmoko.com>
	<49D99BE6.9060404@openmoko.com>	<d3e504410904052312p29c6250cj679d16b9c36a2de8@mail.gmail.com>	<49D9B3CB.1030108@openmoko.com>	<5c6ceea80904060129pc64c5cfqa10780114a84f2e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<CCE2D7D2-D1C1-4040-92A6-F22366E038DF@lollisoft.de>
Message-ID: <49DA47B2.1000106@openmoko.com>

  I'll ask Tully  OMs resident ME genius to have a look.
  A long while back when Joerg and I were doing the GTA04
  we had decided to use the GTA02 case (with mods) for the
  project and were playing with several camera Ideas. Tully
  is looking at that for me now ( I had some new ideas) so
  I'll ask him to have a look see at this stuff as well.

  Steve

Lothar Behrens wrote:
> About the camera issue:
> 
> I have read something about a small computer base case that has a jack  
> or bus system ontop of it's
> case. That way it is extendable with cameras or what ever. I don't  
> know where it was but it was cool.
> 
> Why not think about a back case that includes a cam and using contacts  
> in the inner housing to connect
> the cam to, say an I2C bus or even an USB hub (USB2)?
> 
> If an USB jack is mounted that way, such a 'pimp my neo with a cam  
> module' would propably a gatget
> one could buy. (Expected he want's a camera :-)
> 
> The usual neo looks as before when this replacement back case isn't  
> used and when used, there may also
> the possibility to add an extra battery.
> 
> I asked some time ago, if it would be practical to have a database  
> application on the neo
> (Database applications practical on mobile device ?).
> 
> There was an interest, that may also involved to have a camera option: http://www.thehumanjourney.net/
> Joseph Reeves argued that it would be very interesting to contribute  
> or evaluate. As he is a member at the above link,
> the 'archaeology service' would propably benefit from such a cam  
> gatget with extra battery, because they seem
> to make much pictures in the archaeology work, thus they need also  
> long live usability.
> 
> If the gatget didn't really be implementable with the USB connector in  
> mind, it would be an option to connect with
> bluetooth and only connect the extra battery.
> 
> Advantages:
> 
> One gatget to track GPS locations,
> correlate directly the pictures with the GPS positions (I am  
> struggling with my extra cam and the GPS traces),
> propably add voice notes that are GPS correlated.
> 
> Development:
> 
> The standard back case, could be used to mod it as a first prototype.  
> I have seen a post with pictures that show something
> with an extra battery. (The second last picture from here: http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/gallery/views.php?start=20)
> That could be done colleraborately. The bluetooth camera: http://digitalcameras.engadget.com/2006/04/02/kodaks-bluetooth-camera-module/
> 
> Design:
> 
> As thicker than one battery,
> As thicker than a cam module,
> As thicker than the supporting electronics.
> 
> Using BRLCAD could be an option to create a preview, when possible  
> components with their sizes are choosen.
> 
> The database that may be the backend should be discussed separately. I  
> am practicing the idea of model driven development and fast prototyping.
> I have seen wxWidgtes on my neo, but not yet found the time to start  
> porting my code to it :-(
> 
> But prototyping from a desktop would be possible for creating python  
> CRUD applications at the end (code generation).
> 
> Lothar
> 
> Am 06.04.2009 um 10:29 schrieb David Reyes Samblas Martinez:
> 
>> I finally see your face :),  I also add great voice
>> Great excerpt of what's going on there in OM  thanks steve.
>> As Risto sais way to go :)
>>
>> 2009/4/6 Steve Mosher <steve at openmoko.com>:
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d8Tsvj2TdQ
>>>
>>> Hair straightener required.
>>>
>>> Risto H. Kurppa wrote:
>>>> I'm just amazed to see this discussion, that actually someone from
>>>> Openmoko (=Steve) is responding to the ideas, sharing their/his
>>>> thoughts. As someone pointed already out earlier in this thread -  
>>>> this
>>>> is what an open company is supposed to be doing. Way to go, keep up
>>>> the good work, we're looking forward to see the free&open
>>>> hair-straightener with WLAN :)
>>>>
>>>> r
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez
>> http://www.tuxbrain.com
>> Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
>> Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
>> Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
> 
> -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
> Lothar Behrens
> Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
> 73252 Lenningen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



From david at tuxbrain.com  Mon Apr  6 20:23:56 2009
From: david at tuxbrain.com (David Reyes Samblas Martinez)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 20:23:56 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <f87675ee0904061024k270dad2dl6ecc95fd86682d43@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<grd7m2$u5h$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<op.ury2r9q941evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>
	<grdc08$u5h$2@ger.gmane.org>
	<f87675ee0904061024k270dad2dl6ecc95fd86682d43@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5c6ceea80904061123g32a6a937v144003379d26fc0@mail.gmail.com>

<snip>
> Talk is cheap.
<snip>
yeah robert Talk is cheap and moaning is even fun ,isn't it?
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



-- 
David Reyes Samblas Martinez
http://www.tuxbrain.com
Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino
Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!



From geraldablists at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 20:41:01 2009
From: geraldablists at gmail.com (Gerald A)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 14:41:01 -0400
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <A332A9D0-2BBE-42F4-982F-31E11D9763CD@lollisoft.de>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<8e0ed1e00904050513o627a533dwf6230ee6a7e8a04a@mail.gmail.com>
	<A332A9D0-2BBE-42F4-982F-31E11D9763CD@lollisoft.de>
Message-ID: <8e0ed1e00904061141q29011478jc70995c01e1b4b87@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I originally wrote Lothar in private, and asked for his permission to repost
to the list. There have been a few replies in the meantime, but there were
some good points here.

Now, I'm not a hardware guy, so take my input with a grain of salt, but I
have been watching the project for a while, and as a software person I hope
we can make it work.

Lothar -- new comments are inline.

On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Lothar Behrens <lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de
> wrote:

>
>
>> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 7:08 AM, Lothar Behrens <
>> lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de> wrote:
>>
>> Ok I cannot buy expensive equipment to test hardware that I may have
>> developed, but I virtually could
>> develop hardware. But many developers at one subject could spend money for
>> a rent to let one of the
>> team do outstanding tests.
>>
>> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
>
>

> I have to say -- at this point, I don't think so. It's not that the concept
>> is impossible, or as you mention above, that testing can't be done. But
>> based on what OM and FIC before them have reported, it would be very hard.
>>
>
> Yes, it would be hard, but FIC and OM have made a great job. We have a
> fully functioning phone, but we couldn't easy create our own prototypes to
> play with. Good ideas are published as the robotics project. If having a
> really open schematics and even the board design. one could change the
> formfactor and add his/her needed stuff to play with. If you have to worry
> about how to enter a completely new schematics from the PDF, the fence is
> higher to think about jumping over and just DO it.


Steve has commented a bit about this, as far as a packaging and final
production are concerned. There might be a possibility to build "modular
kits" so different hardware (and software) combos could be tried out, but
translating that into a widget that can be sold as a phone is also a
consideration. We could put together an awesome phone as a kit that is about
the size of a CD drive, but then find out that some parts we used aren't
available in quantities or timelines that make sense to produce a phone. The
concept is awesome, but I'm not sure it can feed into a real product -- but
it's something to think about.



> Principally, this is due to a moving target. Since everything is obsolete
>> in a few months, the shelf life of products in the embedded space is very
>> small. The next big hurdle is in getting specs. OM/FIC were producing
>> thousands of devices and possibly more, so had better quantities then a
>> hobby group might muster -- and still had poor access to hardware specs,
>> when they got them. Now, of course, some of their decisions might have been
>> practical too (we can get >1000 more closed pieces from company X, while we
>> can only get ~100 more open pieces from company Y), we don't know.
>>
>
> Yes, the technique is moving forward fast - for the real phone, not for a
> GSM module for sample :-)
>
> Today I have searched for a GSM module and indeed found one with a complete
> ARM based Linux stack. It would be much too expensive, but when having only
> the next planned GSM module that will appear in the phone, one could test it
> on a standard pc. Or even participate in GSM related development only.


I love the idea of being able to mock up hardware, as it lets the software
move forward too. But if our test platform can't be translated into a
suitable form factor, it might be a waste.


> I had an idea about my car radio. The idea came because I use my Neo to
> transmit music over bluetooth, then over a FM transmitter to the radio. This
> is bad quality.
> There are really much entusiasts building their own carPC in double DIN
> factor or similar - even small PC barebones. Why not equip it with a GSM
> module to become a real handsfree carPC + phone. They will benefit from such
> a module and propably participate in development.
>
> Open the development by also selling parts of a phone for the hobby
> electronics would increase the audience and the feedback.
> I don't know how this component has to be deliverded, but I think it must
> be compilant to some law.


The current phone stuff already passes those laws. Would it be possible to
adapt them, on the electronic side? I have no doubt. Steve or someone on the
OM side might be able to speak to the regulations issue.

Now, there are many people who like the idea of an "open source" phone, but
>> I think that a lot of them assume it will be polished to the level that
>> modern Linux distros are up to nowadays. And the truth is, the open linux
>> phone isn't there yet.
>>
>> Now, these aren't impossible hurdles to climb, but they aren't going to be
>> simple either.
>>
>>
>> What I also think about, is why are there only PDF schematics available?
>>
>> I think there were other formats too, but that might have only been case
>> design. My feeling is that OM isn't trying to be closed about hardware --
>> but rather make some money selling it and be able to subsidize software
>> development.
>>
>
> Selling a mobile phone lab with components and the full schematics would
> propably taken from other companies to participate. They may be able to pay
> for the kit and inturn
> help development and give feedback. Think about opencores or the other
> projects and sites. The open hardware movement is at the way.
>
> With such a kit OM could get money, but also feedback - maybe in schematics
> and board design parts. I am not sure if a board could be divided in
> subdesigned subboards
> as schematics could (KICAD). But at least a part could be developed or the
> design could be overtaken.
>
> Small companies could jump onto that train, if such a kit is available. And
> it eases the jump, if Schematics would be based on open source software like
> KICAD :-)
>
> Dont always think about selling ready usable phones. Think about kits that
> help driving the idea behind an open phone in general (car PC for sample).
> The carPC hobby entusiast propably won't buy a not 'ready' phone, but think
> about adding the hands free phone option in his/her project. This is because
> he/she is acting in building the carPC.



If it is possible to delegate hardware development tasks to the
>> comunity why isn't it done yet?
>>
>> I think this is a good idea. Maybe the community could launch a proposal
>> for what should go into an "GTA0X, X >2". The only problem here is that you
>> get everyone coming out of the woodwork to add their dream widget to a
>> phone. And if that got built, we'd need wheels on it to truck it around. :)
>> What we really need then is a way to get community involvement, but also a
>> realistic "put your money where your mouth is" way to solicit $$ from people
>> who are willing to buy the things. Something like, but stronger then, "if
>> the phone had features (x, y, z), would you pony up $AAA bucks for it?"
>>
>
> Therefore a site with adding votes would be valuable. This eliminates these
> ideas only few have and push ideas many have.
> Then propably membership could be enabled to help in that idea...


Votes are nice, but even with voting you'll end up with lots of good ideas
and perhaps not so many marketable ones. My thought above there was to put
your money on the table with a "vote". "My company will by 10 GTA0X.Ys if
they have sexy widget Z in them, for $500 a pop". Now, that quantity is too
small to mean anything, but if you get 100 people like that, it might be
more interesting.


> Then if there are some results that have a chance to become a real
>> 'next' phone, a company like openmoko could
>> think about producing some prototypes. So the company has a reduced cost.
>>
>> That's a good question -- what would producing prototypes cost? Maybe
>> that's the line to take with OM -- we can do the hardware specs, you produce
>> a few prototypes to see if they work, and then we go to production?
>>
>
> The strength behind the comunity would propably reducing cost of
> prototyping. Here is a cost sample:
>
> http://www.eurocircuits.com/index.php/PCB-production-service-overview/PCB-proto-the-new-PCB-prototype-service-from-Eurocircuits.html
>
> I know of another printed circuit manufacturer my mother was visiting with
> her friend. I'll ask him about such prototyping issues. Maybe he could offer
> cheaper.
>
> The comunity is big and some came to quite good hardware ideas, so why not
> push the comunity be selling parts as premanufactured elements and let them
> have fun.
> Good ideas could be communicated (by voting), cost could be saved when an
> idea finds more attract and the chances of usable ideas for the next phone
> could be taken, because the hardware is open source.


> Swapping prototypes in the comunity would also be an option. Not always a
> new prototype is nessesary. One may build a wirewrap circuit and an engineer
> could catch up
> the prototype to work for a first layout that needs some HF knowledge to
> get properly working. Others that are interested in a first prototype
> printed circuit could be served by voting to add room for their ideas needed
> space on the board as breadboard.
>
> It's always the comunity that drive good ideas and thus cost is saved. More
> boards are cheaper :-)


 Would a prototype with GSM stuff be ok to be shuffled around? Would the
cost to produce such boards really be in the affordable range?

There is one really good electronics project: The internal debug board.
>>
>> I'm not sure about that. The debug board(s) are one tact, but there are
>> lots of different neat knobs in the FR. Early on, someone was using the FR
>> for a small remote boat. Some of that stuff needs a creative mind, and it
>> might be external to the FR, but it can show what can be done with it.
>>
>>
> I know about the boat, I have watched his video :-)
>
> A hardware project site and using open source software for board design,
> such as KICAD would help to enlarge the comunity. Not all must be inside a
> phone, something could
> be at a Eurocard sized board. Say the remote boat or in general a device
> that supports remote appliances would find more attraction if it would be
> 'pluggable' on a stacked board. I am not sure how much electronics the
> remote boat needs, but at least controlling servos.
>
> BTW, I had developed a train station clock driven by a Microchip PIC 16F84,
> a stepup DC/DC converter and a simple H bridge to drive the 'motor' of the
> clock.
> Good ideas must be publisched open sourced (I think about that now :-)
>
> The project died, because it stuck at soldered wirewrap level board
> prototype, it was not communicated, therefore no interest came back thus no
> printed circuits were developed at a next development step. It would have a
> chance to grow and improve, when it were open sourced and other hobbyists
> get knowledge about it - the comunity.
>
> The project is more than 10 years ago :-(
>
> My current hobby is software development and I follow a movement that other
> argue to be unusable, or only at university level, (so it will be called
> 'arsed around'), but I don't agree to them. It's great stuff about code
> generation, MDA / MDSD and the like. It's a movement to a new methology how
> to develop software. It's not always understood by a mortal developer. They
> must see that new methologies work.
>
> Even a stupid idea like distributed hardware engineering may be a way to
> earn money. Services like board layout could be payd for. So it will
> propably not always
> at a hobby level. Another area is distributed music making - as reported at
> one of our local TV broadcaster. Things seem not realizeable but must
> thought twice.
> Link: http://www.3sat.de/neues/sendungen/magazin/132217/index.html
> That isn't really related to this thread, but points out, that things are
> possible.
>
> Developing on a board design could also done that way. We have Skype, could
> share the project files and even could keep versions of design ideas in the
> CVS
> or SVN repository. There is only the question if an open source board
> design could easily converted in a format that - for sample is required for
> electromagnetic compatibility
> tests (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_compatibility)
>
> Renting equipment or swapping parts would save money, who better could
> spend in a good layout. Using colaboration like the music sample could also
> save money.
> An electromagnetic compatibility specialized firm could inspect a layout,
> before it will go to a real hardware test.
> (If the format conversion from open source SW to expensive ECAD SW is
> possible)
>
> Many ideas when sitting at home :-)
>

I've been to installathons and other software type events, where the idea is
to fiddle around with stuff. Would it make sense to do something like this
in the community? A hack-a-moko day, whether it was sponsored by OM or not?
While it might not lead to a design that translates 100% into something
mass-produceable, could that inspire something that is, or it it too far
away?

(I apologize for the quoting -- something seems a bit off there)

Gerald
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From liedekef at telenet.be  Mon Apr  6 20:46:57 2009
From: liedekef at telenet.be (Franky Van Liedekerke)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 20:46:57 +0200
Subject: [QtExtended] screenshot package
Message-ID: <20090406204657.13f08294@telenet.be>

Hi all,

for those fortunate qtextended users, I've build and packaged the
screenshot application from qtextended (it turned out to be quite
simple).
You can download and install it in the following way:

# Add a new package server to a running Qt Extended device by using the
Settings->Software Packages application on the device. Navigate to the
Downloads tab, invoke the Options context menu and choose the Edit
Servers option. Invoke Options->New... and enter in the server details

As server details:
name: franky (or whatever you like)
URL: http://users.telenet.be/liedekef/qtapps

For the moment only one app is on there (screenshot). Once installed,
it appears in the application list (ok, the icon seems smaller than the
rest, but that's about it). Newly taken screenshots appear
under /home/root/Documents/image/png

I could also provide a ipk, but then the app doesn't appear in the
application list (maybe it does that on restarting qtextended, but I
don't like that idea).

Franky



From joerg at openmoko.org  Mon Apr  6 21:03:53 2009
From: joerg at openmoko.org (Joerg Reisenweber)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 20:03:53 +0100
Subject: Camera module as back case (was Re: Slashdotted)
In-Reply-To: <92248263-938E-44A0-BFE2-BA8E237318B9@lollisoft.de>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<2f3aa2770904060349t74f41562i34196baece2d0bff@mail.gmail.com>
	<92248263-938E-44A0-BFE2-BA8E237318B9@lollisoft.de>
Message-ID: <200904062104.00833.joerg@openmoko.org>

Am Mo  6. April 2009 schrieb Lothar Behrens:
> I read the issue with removing the hole. The space in that 'hole'  
> could be used as the
> docking bay for extensions. Ok, the mic should somehow moved, or a  
> 'voicepipe' could
> be used to direct the acustics.
> 
> A good starting point to use the space somehow useful.
> 

This unused space is part of GSM-ant design and it isn't that easy to simply 
build some electronics to fit in there without detuning whole RF-design 
and/or having nasty EMI-problems in the newly created addon.

/j
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From pierrox at pierrox.net  Mon Apr  6 21:06:55 2009
From: pierrox at pierrox.net (Pierre =?iso-8859-1?q?H=E9bert?=)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 20:06:55 +0100
Subject: auimd-0.2,
	a user interface for mobile devices (and especially the FreeRunner !)
Message-ID: <200904062106.55516.pierrox@pierrox.net>

Hello List !

I am pleased to announce the availability of AUIMD version 0.2. 
In short AUIMD is a user interface targeted at mobile devices, written 
with PyQt4. Auimd is both a sort of fullscreen X11 window manager, and a 
small "framework" suitable for rapid and easy build of new python/Qt4 
applications.
AUIMD works best on the FreeRunner and relies on FSO for telephony and 
other services, but it can also be used on other devices with VGA/QVGA 
screens.
This second release includes a minimal phone application, enough to send 
and receive calls, but no more. Use it with extreme care as it has been 
tested with only one setup !

AUIMD is mainly a monolithic application : the idea is to keep resources 
as low as possible and reduce applications startup time, while still 
providing error management and dynamic application reloading thanks to 
python mechanism.

The simplest way to run AUIMD is probably to use Debian, as apt-get will 
easily fetch dependencies (see README for more), but it is also possible 
to use OE to build PyQt4 and other needed packages such as python-dbus 
(not tried it myself).

Some more infos here :
http://www.pierrox.net/auimd/
And some screenshots here :
http://www.pierrox.net/auimd/screenshots.html

AUIMD started a long time ago as a proof of concept, stagnate for months, 
and got some revival a few weeks ago. It may or may not go really 
further, but anyway all feedbacks and contributions are welcome :-)

Cheers,

Pierre.




From charlie137 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 21:13:38 2009
From: charlie137 at gmail.com (Guillaume Chereau)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 03:13:38 +0800
Subject: Tichy now hosted on google code + release 1.0.0
Message-ID: <8e9327d40904061213m39a60551i7620434917905aa9@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

(Some of you may know me from my previous openmoko address :
charlie at openmoko.org)

Since I don't work for openmoko anymore, and since I had some free
time in my hands recently, I restarted the tichy project (previously
hosted on openmoko public git)
The project is now hosted on google code [0]. From the web site we can
see some screenshots.

For the history, tichy is the project that was used as the base for
the paroli project [1], officially supported by openmoko.  Both
projects are python frameworks to write applets for openmoko phones. I
decide to restart tichy because in my opinion paroli has forked too
much, and now both projects are having very different goals.

So why I think people should give tichy a try :

* It can run on debian, SHR, and FSO (even thouhg there is currently a
problem with the installation on FSO)
* it is using the Dbus framework for all the phone applets.
* It is very simple to modify it, almost everything is written in
python, with some small parts in cython.
* It can run on the desktop as well.
* There is a release (1.0.0) [2]

The first release 1.0.0 [2] contains the source package, a debian
packages, and an ipkg package that can be installed on SHR (should
also work on FSO, but I see that python-pygame package is currently
missing from the FSO feeds.)

I will keep working on the project if I think there are interested
people. I don't know how much time I will allocate to this, so I can
make no statement about plans or future releases. Of course
contributions are welcomes.
I have to admit I didn't test it so much (I personally only use it for
the chinese learning and dictionary applets), if people experience any
problems, please let me know and I'll make a bug fix release.

I would also be interested to know if the SHR, debian, or FSO people
are interested for a collaboration to add tichy in there
distributions.

Happy programming,
Guillaume

[0] http://code.google.com/p/tichy
[1] http://www.paroli-project.org/
[2] http://tichy.googlecode.com/svn/release/1.0.0/
-- 
http://charlie137.blogspot.com/



From risto at kurppa.fi  Mon Apr  6 21:14:27 2009
From: risto at kurppa.fi (Risto H. Kurppa)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 22:14:27 +0300
Subject: auimd-0.2, a user interface for mobile devices (and especially 
	the FreeRunner !)
In-Reply-To: <200904062106.55516.pierrox@pierrox.net>
References: <200904062106.55516.pierrox@pierrox.net>
Message-ID: <d3e504410904061214t4a4a032le133e470708f742e@mail.gmail.com>

Without trying, to me it looks like a job well done! I think I might
try it on Debian at some stage. If someone tries this please post your
results!!

r

-- 
| risto h. kurppa
| risto at kurppa dot fi
| http://risto.kurppa.fi



From charlie137 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 21:22:05 2009
From: charlie137 at gmail.com (Guillaume Chereau)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 03:22:05 +0800
Subject: auimd-0.2, a user interface for mobile devices (and especially 
	the FreeRunner !)
In-Reply-To: <200904062106.55516.pierrox@pierrox.net>
References: <200904062106.55516.pierrox@pierrox.net>
Message-ID: <8e9327d40904061222u35e473bchbeceef2c0d2e751c@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Pierre,

Ha ! I just rear your announcement after I sent mine for a very
similar project :O

I am going to have a look at AUIMD for sure tomorrow (it is late here in taiwan)
I like the idea of using your application as a simple x window manager
to start other application embedded into it !

Nice screen shots, it looks very promising !
Guillaume

2009/4/7 Pierre H?bert <pierrox at pierrox.net>:
> Hello List !
>
> I am pleased to announce the availability of AUIMD version 0.2.
> In short AUIMD is a user interface targeted at mobile devices, written
> with PyQt4. Auimd is both a sort of fullscreen X11 window manager, and a
> small "framework" suitable for rapid and easy build of new python/Qt4
> applications.
> AUIMD works best on the FreeRunner and relies on FSO for telephony and
> other services, but it can also be used on other devices with VGA/QVGA
> screens.
> This second release includes a minimal phone application, enough to send
> and receive calls, but no more. Use it with extreme care as it has been
> tested with only one setup !
>
> AUIMD is mainly a monolithic application : the idea is to keep resources
> as low as possible and reduce applications startup time, while still
> providing error management and dynamic application reloading thanks to
> python mechanism.
>
> The simplest way to run AUIMD is probably to use Debian, as apt-get will
> easily fetch dependencies (see README for more), but it is also possible
> to use OE to build PyQt4 and other needed packages such as python-dbus
> (not tried it myself).
>
> Some more infos here :
> http://www.pierrox.net/auimd/
> And some screenshots here :
> http://www.pierrox.net/auimd/screenshots.html
>
> AUIMD started a long time ago as a proof of concept, stagnate for months,
> and got some revival a few weeks ago. It may or may not go really
> further, but anyway all feedbacks and contributions are welcome :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Pierre.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



-- 
http://charlie137.blogspot.com/



From wpmaillist at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 21:33:28 2009
From: wpmaillist at gmail.com (wp)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 21:33:28 +0200
Subject: Selling Neo Freerunner in Poland, Europe
Message-ID: <e58eb83a0904061233o39a71651odf22d2f96471c226@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Due to my financial problems, I have to sell my Neo Freerunner.
http://cgi.ebay.pl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270370169802

Greetings, wp.



From mickey at vanille-media.de  Mon Apr  6 21:40:11 2009
From: mickey at vanille-media.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 21:40:11 +0200
Subject: auimd-0.2,
	a user interface for mobile devices (and especially the FreeRunner !)
In-Reply-To: <200904062106.55516.pierrox@pierrox.net>
References: <200904062106.55516.pierrox@pierrox.net>
Message-ID: <200904062140.11809.mickey@vanille-media.de>

One word: Awesome!

:M:




From lukpank at o2.pl  Mon Apr  6 22:25:17 2009
From: lukpank at o2.pl (=?utf-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz?= Pankowski)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:25:17 +0200
Subject: ffalarms: clicking any puzzle button should one day silent the alarm
	for 5 seconds
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<200904040123.19827.joerg@openmoko.org>
	<40cd9ce40904040206s45d99e95n870fef4ee102fd5d@mail.gmail.com>
	<87vdpjbdc2.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<1238984019.6939.6.camel@bunyip.localdomain>
Message-ID: <874ox1pm1e.fsf@ash.lupan-home>

"W.Kenworthy" <billk at iinet.net.au> writes:

> On Sun, 2009-04-05 at 12:32 +0200, ?ukasz Pankowski wrote:
>> kimaidou <kimaidou at gmail.com> writes:
> ...
>> > Thanks anyway, great soft !
>> 
>
> When you do the rewrite, can you "lose" the 1..2..3..4.. thing! - or at
> least make it an optional setting in favour of a large (red) single
> button saying "STOP!"
>
> Woke up this morning, and by the time I had fumbled and missed trying to
> enter the digits because of bleary sleep filled eyes and no glasses, my
> other half was awake and sympathetically saying "Can you please just
> stop fiddling around and take the battery OUT!"
>
> Otherwise its great on shr-testing - even wakes when its supposed to -
> not like the alarm app thats the default.

For now there is a dark cheating code: you may suspend the phone, then
it will wake up on the next alarm (it works with default configuration,
but somehow not if you change the player to mplayer, the next alarm will
give no sound, at least on shr-unstable).

I consider silenting the alarm for, let say, 5 seconds after touching
any of the four buttons or the LED clock.  I think the puzzle assures
you turn off the alarm by conscious decision (but little training makes
it no harder for me than hitting the snooze button :), unless you need
glasses of course) and not by accidental touching the screen in the
pocket, and silenting the alarm will make it even more so, because there
will be no pressure to turn it off as soon as possible to avoid making
noise.

>
> BillK



From pierrox at pierrox.net  Mon Apr  6 22:45:05 2009
From: pierrox at pierrox.net (Pierre =?iso-8859-1?q?H=E9bert?=)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 21:45:05 +0100
Subject: auimd-0.2,
	a user interface for mobile devices (and especially the FreeRunner !)
Message-ID: <200904062245.05101.pierrox@pierrox.net>

On Monday 06 April 2009, Risto H. Kurppa wrote:
> Without trying, to me it looks like a job well done! I think I might
> try it on Debian at some stage. If someone tries this please post your
> results!!
>
> r

I forgot to mention that a good way to try it is to simply run auimd on a 
desktop. Of course the FSO framework won't be available, but it should 
run ok :-)

Pierre.



From pierrox at pierrox.net  Mon Apr  6 22:45:41 2009
From: pierrox at pierrox.net (Pierre =?iso-8859-1?q?H=E9bert?=)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 21:45:41 +0100
Subject: auimd-0.2,
	a user interface for mobile devices (and especially the FreeRunner !)
Message-ID: <200904062245.41491.pierrox@pierrox.net>

Hello Guillaume,

Yes indeed, it's a strange coincidence ! But somewhere I believe that it 
shows that the FreeRunner is a great source of inspiration ;-)

Cheers,

Pierre.

On Monday 06 April 2009, Guillaume Chereau wrote:
> Hello Pierre,
>
> Ha ! I just rear your announcement after I sent mine for a very
> similar project :O
>
> I am going to have a look at AUIMD for sure tomorrow (it is late here
> in taiwan) I like the idea of using your application as a simple x
> window manager to start other application embedded into it !
>
> Nice screen shots, it looks very promising !
> Guillaume
>
> 2009/4/7 Pierre H?bert <pierrox at pierrox.net>:
> > Hello List !
> >
> > I am pleased to announce the availability of AUIMD version 0.2.
> > In short AUIMD is a user interface targeted at mobile devices,
> > written with PyQt4. Auimd is both a sort of fullscreen X11 window
> > manager, and a small "framework" suitable for rapid and easy build
> > of new python/Qt4 applications.
> > AUIMD works best on the FreeRunner and relies on FSO for telephony
> > and other services, but it can also be used on other devices with
> > VGA/QVGA screens.
> > This second release includes a minimal phone application, enough to
> > send and receive calls, but no more. Use it with extreme care as it
> > has been tested with only one setup !
> >
> > AUIMD is mainly a monolithic application : the idea is to keep
> > resources as low as possible and reduce applications startup time,
> > while still providing error management and dynamic application
> > reloading thanks to python mechanism.
> >
> > The simplest way to run AUIMD is probably to use Debian, as apt-get
> > will easily fetch dependencies (see README for more), but it is also
> > possible to use OE to build PyQt4 and other needed packages such as
> > python-dbus (not tried it myself).
> >
> > Some more infos here :
> > http://www.pierrox.net/auimd/
> > And some screenshots here :
> > http://www.pierrox.net/auimd/screenshots.html
> >
> > AUIMD started a long time ago as a proof of concept, stagnate for
> > months, and got some revival a few weeks ago. It may or may not go
> > really further, but anyway all feedbacks and contributions are
> > welcome :-)
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Pierre.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community at lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community





From pierrox at pierrox.net  Mon Apr  6 22:47:22 2009
From: pierrox at pierrox.net (Pierre =?iso-8859-1?q?H=E9bert?=)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 21:47:22 +0100
Subject: auimd-0.2,
	a user interface for mobile devices (and especially the FreeRunner !)
In-Reply-To: <200904062140.11809.mickey@vanille-media.de>
References: <200904062106.55516.pierrox@pierrox.net>
	<200904062140.11809.mickey@vanille-media.de>
Message-ID: <200904062247.22734.pierrox@pierrox.net>

Thanks for the compliment :-)

On Monday 06 April 2009, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> One word: Awesome!
>
> :M:
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community





From lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de  Mon Apr  6 23:04:41 2009
From: lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de (Lothar Behrens)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 23:04:41 +0200
Subject: Camera module as back case (was Re: Slashdotted)
In-Reply-To: <200904062104.00833.joerg@openmoko.org>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<2f3aa2770904060349t74f41562i34196baece2d0bff@mail.gmail.com>
	<92248263-938E-44A0-BFE2-BA8E237318B9@lollisoft.de>
	<200904062104.00833.joerg@openmoko.org>
Message-ID: <63DBCB97-903F-434E-8788-D4333B41ED86@lollisoft.de>


Am 06.04.2009 um 21:03 schrieb Joerg Reisenweber:

> Am Mo  6. April 2009 schrieb Lothar Behrens:
>> I read the issue with removing the hole. The space in that 'hole'
>> could be used as the
>> docking bay for extensions. Ok, the mic should somehow moved, or a
>> 'voicepipe' could
>> be used to direct the acustics.
>>
>> A good starting point to use the space somehow useful.
>>
>
> This unused space is part of GSM-ant design and it isn't that easy  
> to simply
> build some electronics to fit in there without detuning whole RF- 
> design
> and/or having nasty EMI-problems in the newly created addon.
>

Ahh ok. So beside this, a small sketch where addons could be placed  
would be helpfull
to not fall in that traps.

Are there save regions, say bottom layer to ground (HF shield) and SMD  
only on top of the board added?

Lothar

> /j

-- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
Lothar Behrens
Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
73252 Lenningen











From lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de  Mon Apr  6 23:08:28 2009
From: lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de (Lothar Behrens)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 23:08:28 +0200
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <bccbc6690904061319qe5a83b6u8d63150fed5af2ea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<8e0ed1e00904050513o627a533dwf6230ee6a7e8a04a@mail.gmail.com>
	<A332A9D0-2BBE-42F4-982F-31E11D9763CD@lollisoft.de>
	<8e0ed1e00904061141q29011478jc70995c01e1b4b87@mail.gmail.com>
	<bccbc6690904061319qe5a83b6u8d63150fed5af2ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54C0F823-AB24-418E-8B3C-85D0B5C68F66@lollisoft.de>


Am 06.04.2009 um 22:19 schrieb Max:

> so a switch to maemo ?
>

Why switching. It's an internet tablet, not really usable as a mobile  
phone - in my mind.

-- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
Lothar Behrens
Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
73252 Lenningen











From risto at kurppa.fi  Mon Apr  6 23:16:32 2009
From: risto at kurppa.fi (Risto H. Kurppa)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 00:16:32 +0300
Subject: auimd-0.2, a user interface for mobile devices (and especially 
	the FreeRunner !)
In-Reply-To: <200904062245.05101.pierrox@pierrox.net>
References: <200904062245.05101.pierrox@pierrox.net>
Message-ID: <d3e504410904061416x2ee106a9p25b4e74ba955e032@mail.gmail.com>

2009/4/6 Pierre H?bert <pierrox at pierrox.net>:
> On Monday 06 April 2009, Risto H. Kurppa wrote:
>> Without trying, to me it looks like a job well done! I think I might
>> try it on Debian at some stage. If someone tries this please post your
>> results!!
>>
>> r
>
> I forgot to mention that a good way to try it is to simply run auimd on a
> desktop. Of course the FSO framework won't be available, but it should
> run ok :-)
>
> Pierre.


Ah, true. Tried on my Kubuntu 8.10 + KDE 4.2.2:

rhk at rubert:~/freerunner/auimd/auimd-0.2$ ./auimd.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./auimd.py", line 25, in <module>
    from core.desktop import createDesktop
  File "/home/rhk/freerunner/auimd/auimd-0.2/core/desktop.py", line
67, in <module>
    from core.window_catcher import WindowCatcher
  File "/home/rhk/freerunner/auimd/auimd-0.2/core/window_catcher.py",
line 3, in <module>
    from Xlib.display import Display
ImportError: No module named Xlib.display
rhk at rubert:~/freerunner/auimd/auimd-0.2$


Any tips?


r


-- 
| risto h. kurppa
| risto at kurppa dot fi
| http://risto.kurppa.fi



From bmidgley at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 23:17:30 2009
From: bmidgley at gmail.com (Brad Midgley)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:17:30 -0600
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <54C0F823-AB24-418E-8B3C-85D0B5C68F66@lollisoft.de>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<8e0ed1e00904050513o627a533dwf6230ee6a7e8a04a@mail.gmail.com>
	<A332A9D0-2BBE-42F4-982F-31E11D9763CD@lollisoft.de>
	<8e0ed1e00904061141q29011478jc70995c01e1b4b87@mail.gmail.com>
	<bccbc6690904061319qe5a83b6u8d63150fed5af2ea@mail.gmail.com>
	<54C0F823-AB24-418E-8B3C-85D0B5C68F66@lollisoft.de>
Message-ID: <d89ddf300904061417nbc603cev9d32fdfd67bdc7c5@mail.gmail.com>

Lothar

> Why switching. It's an internet tablet, not really usable as a mobile
> phone - in my mind.

nextgen maemo will have 3g.

-- 
Brad Midgley



From Quakeman1 at gmx.net  Mon Apr  6 23:24:41 2009
From: Quakeman1 at gmx.net (Fox Mulder)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 23:24:41 +0200
Subject: Wifi problems, WPA/WEP differences
In-Reply-To: <c30e08170904050213i16450b07ic64548f18309fbc7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18db98c80903300157n37155b32g2d767c2ff5bad90d@mail.gmail.com>	<18db98c80904011225t575064f8kd158a1ed0f502a12@mail.gmail.com>	<18db98c80904020642m2c3a6b0eq8a21ada09e0bcbec@mail.gmail.com>	<200904021635.49549.mok@mnet-online.de>	<18db98c80904020915p76dc8430o4426e0e18eca79d1@mail.gmail.com>	<49D73BE0.1020506@cmartins.nl>	<18db98c80904040725u70d788dbob7028a29cc84e070@mail.gmail.com>	<1238855570.24587.40.camel@toaster-desktop>	<m2hc13fsne.fsf_-_@home.pavel.comp>
	<c30e08170904050213i16450b07ic64548f18309fbc7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49DA7319.30908@gmx.net>

Same here. 24 worked stable but 29 doesn't work at all. Connection to AP
seems established but no data transfer between freerunner and AP with
new kernels.

Johny Tenfinger wrote:
> My AP worked well with .24 kernel. With .28 and .29 it doesn't (I've
> connected once for about month)
> 
> 2009/4/5, Paul Fertser <fercerpav at gmail.com>:
>> Cameron Frazier <frazier.cameron at gmail.com> writes:
>>> On Sat, 2009-04-04 at 16:25 +0200, Davide Scaini wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> i use a wep static ip network and a dhcp  wpa one, i have some
>>>> interfaces files that i switch between.
>>>> ...
>>> I can get a DHCP WEP network to connect fine (work), but at home (DHCP
>>> WPA) I get nothing.  You mention that you have different interface
>>> files, coul dyou describe the differences between them.
>> I've had successful connections with open, WEP and WPA networks. And i've
>> seen an AP i couldn't connect at all too. It looks like FR's wifi is
>> incompatible with some APs, no matter if encryption is used or
>> not. See http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket//1250 for example.
>>
>> To sum up: FR's wifi has 2 kinds of known problems: incompatibility
>> with particular APs and instability of the internal firmware.
>>
>> Using an old (pre-.28) kernel is not recommended due to stability
>> issues. Also i think Werner is still going to finish his daemon to
>> promptly power-cycle the wifi module on internal firmware crash; that
>> can improve stability somewhat.
>>
>> I wouldn't hope these compatibility issues will ever be fixed, so my
>> advice is: trade your AP for the one FR can work with.
>>
>> --
>> Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
>> mailto:fercerpav at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 



From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 23:40:15 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:40:15 -0700
Subject: CAD files and gCAD3D
In-Reply-To: <12522E81-5C68-4FD6-89D1-6BD351F8794F@lollisoft.de>
References: <12522E81-5C68-4FD6-89D1-6BD351F8794F@lollisoft.de>
Message-ID: <49DA76BF.80205@openmoko.com>

  Maybe Tully knows

Lothar Behrens wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have just seen on the page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CAD_models  
> that
> gCAD3D could be used for previewing the CAD models.
> 
> Does it support boolean operations to derive other housings?
> 
> Is this tool propably usable to export in other formats?
> 
> I have tried to play with blender and it is a great animation tool. It  
> also is relatively
> easy to use when some introductory videos or screen casts are followed.
> 
> Also this application runs on Mac OS X I am mostly running.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Lothar
> 
> -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de
> Lothar Behrens
> Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
> 73252 Lenningen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



From iknowjoseph at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 23:52:27 2009
From: iknowjoseph at gmail.com (Joseph Reeves)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 22:52:27 +0100
Subject: gvSIG Mobile 0.1.2
Message-ID: <958244340904061452x4d3fe16fldb787c0ba9ecc44d@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I've just packaged up gvSIG Mobile for Openmoko 0.1.2:

http://blogs.thehumanjourney.net/finds/entry/gvsig_mobile_0_1_2

http://www.opkg.org/package_162.html

It contains various updates and improvements, even a choice of GUI
language. The full (?) list of changes is on my blog. Massive thanks
as ever to Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio for all his hard work making
this great app and to the brave translators who have enabled us to
provide it in their language of choice.

Cheers, Joseph



From steve at openmoko.com  Mon Apr  6 23:53:01 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:53:01 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <grd7m2$u5h$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<grd7m2$u5h$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <49DA79BD.2000508@openmoko.com>

  I have an official statement out.

   I'll get on the corrections asap

  steve.

  community! chime in. on these sites

Lalo Martins wrote:
> This is getting ridiculous.  Now the misreportage is spreading through 
> the blogosphere:
> http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=4214
> which was picked up by Giz and Engadget:
> http://i.gizmodo.com/5200285/openmoko-cancels-freerunner-the-original-
> open-source-linux-phone
> http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/06/openmoko-freerunner-canceled-staff-
> slashed/
> 
> I'd strongly recommend OpenMoko puts out a press release or something...
> 
> best,
>                                                Lalo Martins



From steve at openmoko.com  Tue Apr  7 00:24:34 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:24:34 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <grdc08$u5h$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	<grd7m2$u5h$1@ger.gmane.org>	<op.ury2r9q941evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>
	<grdc08$u5h$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <49DA8122.3080909@openmoko.com>

production is not stopping. Sean said explicitly in his Bern address 
that there is ample inventory and I'll add that the production 
continues. In fact, one of the consequences of suspending GTA03 is that 
we can focus
on two things ( FreeRunner and Project B) as opposed to three things.
Let's get this straight. FreeRunner is Open. There is no EOL. Not like
a closed product where software support ends. As long as parts remain
available ( as far as I can see at least through the balance of 2009)
as long as demand remains, we will produce and support the FreeRunner.
That's the whole blessed point of delaying the GTA03.

Lalo Martins wrote:
> quoth arne anka as of Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:01:11 +0200:
> 
>>> This is getting ridiculous.  Now the misreportage is spreading through
>>> the blogosphere:
>>> ...
>> in what respect a mis-reportage?
>> that's, what i concluded from these long mails with 99.9% quote and half
>> a line at the bottom ...
> 
> The articles (Slashdot, Phonescoop, Engadget, Giz) are saying Freerunner 
> was cancelled.  That doesn't even make sense, since Freerunner is out, 
> what's there to cancel?  But I believe it was said explicitly that 
> production of the Freerunner is *not* stopping... (I certainly still want 
> one, buzz or not)
> 
> best,
>                                                Lalo Martins



From mail at 3v1n0.net  Tue Apr  7 00:42:12 2009
From: mail at 3v1n0.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Marco_Trevisan_=28Trevi=F1o=29=22?=)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 00:42:12 +0200
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <gre0g5$8h6$1@ger.gmane.org>

c_c wrote:
> Hi,
>   Well, it took a lot longer than I thought - but finally  - here's the alpha release of Intone - a mplayer frontend (for audio files - as of now) in C. Uses about 2% CPU (max) while running - memory goes up depending on your playlist - on my phone (~2500 songs) it uses about 15%.
>   All you need to do is download the attached ipk and install it. Intone depends on sqlite3 and libelementary. If you have elementary on your phone upgraded to a level where the elementary test application shows you a demo of sliders and genlists, Intone should run on your phone.
>   The recommended way to organise music is to put all the files in a folder (lets say Music), with sub folders named after artists (say Music ->Eagles) and with sub sub folders holding albums (that becomes Music->Eagles->Hell Freezes Over->*.mp3). That way, Intone can correctly organise your music collection into albums. It automatically creates a default playlist containing all songs and individual playlists for each album. I have added features to manage playlists and albums - but there is always scope for improvement.
>   Intone uses a sqlite database as a backend for the playlists and albums. That should, hopefully, give flexibility in adding more features later.
>   
>    Things that don't work as of now :-
> 
> 1. Feedback. - I haven't been able to add dialogs yet. So - wait a little while for Intone to finish long operations (like adding your music collection for the first time - my 2500 odd songs took about 6 secs - the button remains pressed too)

Ah, why don't you use the ecore_exe_pipe_run function for controlling
mplayer?

-- 
Trevi?o's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/




From rixed at happyleptic.org  Tue Apr  7 00:45:05 2009
From: rixed at happyleptic.org (Cedric Cellier)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 00:45:05 +0200
Subject: Accelerometers in recent kernels (was: Re: [SHR] latest
	unstable with problems!)
In-Reply-To: <m21vs6g939.fsf_-_@home.pavel.comp>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904052101.58780.michael-tansella@gmx.de>
	<m263higbqm.fsf@home.pavel.comp>
	<200904052134.09096.michael-tansella@gmx.de>
	<m21vs6g939.fsf_-_@home.pavel.comp>
Message-ID: <20090406224505.GA5623@deb.happyleptic.org>

I tried to edit the wiki page about the accelerometer in order to document
this change :

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer_data_retrieval

Please someone review it !




From steve at openmoko.com  Tue Apr  7 00:50:11 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:50:11 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <f87675ee0904061024k270dad2dl6ecc95fd86682d43@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	<grd7m2$u5h$1@ger.gmane.org>	<op.ury2r9q941evsb@slm-wxp-770.sprachwiss.uni-hamburg.de>	<grdc08$u5h$2@ger.gmane.org>
	<f87675ee0904061024k270dad2dl6ecc95fd86682d43@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49DA8723.9030107@openmoko.com>

Hi bob.

  A couple points below. thanks for your continued interest.

robert lazarski wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Lalo Martins <lalo.martins at gmail.com> wrote:
>> quoth arne anka as of Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:01:11 +0200:
>>
>>>> This is getting ridiculous.  Now the misreportage is spreading through
>>>> the blogosphere:
>>>> ...
>>> in what respect a mis-reportage?
>>> that's, what i concluded from these long mails with 99.9% quote and half
>>> a line at the bottom ...
>> The articles (Slashdot, Phonescoop, Engadget, Giz) are saying Freerunner
>> was cancelled.  That doesn't even make sense, since Freerunner is out,
>> what's there to cancel?  But I believe it was said explicitly that
>> production of the Freerunner is *not* stopping... (I certainly still want
>> one, buzz or not)
>>
>> best,
>>                                               Lalo Martins
> 
> Talk is cheap. The GT03 was announced and canceled, 
As an open company we take great pains to disclose as much as possible.
Throughout the development of GTA03 when people asked me what it was
and when would it ship I took great pains to explain ( as did wolfgang)
that it may not ship at all. In closed companies they have closed 
caskets. For us its more like an irish wake. Every company I have ever 
worked for has had to kill products. usually we just take them out back 
and shoot them and never speak about it. But we have to talk about it.
First because we were open enough to talk about it when it was still in 
design, second because our commitment to openness demands it, and third
because others who want to create open companies can learn from our 
experience.



a tentative A7
> release was announced, canceled and replaced with a 5 point plan or
> something , 

The 5 points are conditions that must be met for me to release the A7
that are sitting comfortably in their boxes in the factory. The delay
caused by the factory being off for CNY is past. The final checks
on the image and ALSA states is done. Now I'm working with disty to
plan its entry into the market.


so I certainly wouldn't be surprised if neither the A7 nor
> plan b happen at this point.  You don't fire or create conditions for
> the most important kernel / hardware / UI guys to leave if you have
> growth in mind. Something new may happen, but IMHO its time to at
> least consider that what you see is what you get.

  It's exactly because we have growth in mind that we had to make the
cuts we did. the suicide path was to continue 3 projects when the 
resources available can only deliver on the two more modest projects.
here is how it works. You have 3 projects:
  1. FreeRunner: requires .5X
  2. Project B: requires X
  3. GTA03 requires 3X.

You have 2X resources. Pick your projects. If you pick door number 3, 
you have just picked failure. Couple that with these facts. #3 is
has no wifi and no GPS and costs 499. Looks pretty clear that if you
want growth you better do a little pruning. Is the growth path a 
straight line? nope. But if we set goals we have a chance of meeting
and then deliver, I'm confident that our unique experiment will draw
additional resources. At early stages growth is never funded by cash flow.

> 
> The one thing for sure is that OM a company generally has a bad
> reputation at this point with all this recent press - unfairly or not.
> If they can overcome that image and also release new products with a
> skeleton staff, then I'll be pleasantly surprised - like many of us,
> I'd rather not have my time spent go down the tubes.


> 
> - R
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



From chris at c-64.mobi  Tue Apr  7 01:06:10 2009
From: chris at c-64.mobi (xChris)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 16:06:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ffalarms 0.2.1 and atd-over-fso (now works on SHR-testing)
In-Reply-To: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
Message-ID: <1239059170197-2595997.post@n2.nabble.com>


Hi,

It works under the SHR-testing, but there is no sound...

chris
-- 
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/ffalarms-0.2.1-and-atd-over-fso-%28now-works-on-SHR-testing%29-tp2547473p2595997.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




From prishelec at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 01:16:07 2009
From: prishelec at gmail.com (Leonti Bielski)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 01:16:07 +0200
Subject: Tichy now hosted on google code + release 1.0.0
In-Reply-To: <8e9327d40904061213m39a60551i7620434917905aa9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8e9327d40904061213m39a60551i7620434917905aa9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <815cb1720904061616h59b2ba28j6d7f3d4a75390606@mail.gmail.com>

Hello!
Thanks for your work!
I have a problem - when I start tichy it gives me just black screen :(

I had some of the packages installed from anstrom repository, so it
might be a problem. But as I remember from previous tries - I had
black screen too. Is it treatable?

Tomorrow I will try to install it on clean and fresh SHR distro and
see what it gives me.

Leonti

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Guillaume Chereau <charlie137 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> (Some of you may know me from my previous openmoko address :
> charlie at openmoko.org)
>
> Since I don't work for openmoko anymore, and since I had some free
> time in my hands recently, I restarted the tichy project (previously
> hosted on openmoko public git)
> The project is now hosted on google code [0]. From the web site we can
> see some screenshots.
>
> For the history, tichy is the project that was used as the base for
> the paroli project [1], officially supported by openmoko. ?Both
> projects are python frameworks to write applets for openmoko phones. I
> decide to restart tichy because in my opinion paroli has forked too
> much, and now both projects are having very different goals.
>
> So why I think people should give tichy a try :
>
> * It can run on debian, SHR, and FSO (even thouhg there is currently a
> problem with the installation on FSO)
> * it is using the Dbus framework for all the phone applets.
> * It is very simple to modify it, almost everything is written in
> python, with some small parts in cython.
> * It can run on the desktop as well.
> * There is a release (1.0.0) [2]
>
> The first release 1.0.0 [2] contains the source package, a debian
> packages, and an ipkg package that can be installed on SHR (should
> also work on FSO, but I see that python-pygame package is currently
> missing from the FSO feeds.)
>
> I will keep working on the project if I think there are interested
> people. I don't know how much time I will allocate to this, so I can
> make no statement about plans or future releases. Of course
> contributions are welcomes.
> I have to admit I didn't test it so much (I personally only use it for
> the chinese learning and dictionary applets), if people experience any
> problems, please let me know and I'll make a bug fix release.
>
> I would also be interested to know if the SHR, debian, or FSO people
> are interested for a collaboration to add tichy in there
> distributions.
>
> Happy programming,
> Guillaume
>
> [0] http://code.google.com/p/tichy
> [1] http://www.paroli-project.org/
> [2] http://tichy.googlecode.com/svn/release/1.0.0/
> --
> http://charlie137.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



From steve at openmoko.com  Tue Apr  7 01:17:42 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:17:42 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <49DA3F06.9010301@cmartins.nl>
References: <755778.87166.qm@web26301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<49D963CA.3060303@openmoko.com> <49DA3F06.9010301@cmartins.nl>
Message-ID: <49DA8D96.5070207@openmoko.com>



Fernando Martins wrote:
> Steve Mosher wrote:
>> Thanks Anthony.
>>
>> For the sake of everyone who hasnt read my posts on this
>> or seen the video of seans speech. Let me say that your position
>> is the one we settled on. spend our resources on the FR and then
>> fund a modest project: project B. Put the GTA03 on hold
>> and find a way to involve the community more in its development.

>>
>>   
> I'm not a marketing guy, but I am somewhat surprised not to see more 
> references about this aspect. There is talk about products and about 
> methods. All that discussion on hardware development made it clear that 
> OM needs to increase market or gain share to achieve economies of scale. 
> I can understand that market aspects might not come to the front, but 
> maybe the community could also help here.
First and foremost I try to get the word out to the community. For that 
I try to talk about the engineering aspects of things, as best I can 
since I put my complier down years ago. Then I discuss the marketing 
aspects of things. Search my posts and you'll find the comments on 
marketing. yes, its true we need to increase market share. My job
is to size what I think is reasonable. To fund GTA03 I would have to
TRIPLE sales overnight. If you look at the economic drivers in our 
channel, basically it cash constrained at the inlet, you'll understand 
why I would not project a tripling of volume. Further, increasing the 
sales this much overnight would not even be feasible from a cash flow 
standpoint. It takes money to buy inventory and to market. So, I picked
a more modest growth projection. A projection based on our entry to the 
Embedded market. Thousands of developers who never even heard of us.
ramping to volume is only possible by a reallocation and yes de 
allocation of resources from certain areas. And you are right the 
community can help:
  1. get code upstream. That decreases our cost to maintain.
  2. Stay involved or get involved, either by coding, testing, or
     spreading the word.
  you get the idea.
> 
>  From another post I understand that you are also going to niche markets 
> that need custom/open phones, which looks like a sensible approach. But 
> could the GTA02 be made interesting to the general public to be sold 
> together with a telecom subscription? if not, is there a GTA02+ that 
> could do it?
  The telecom play is a tough one.

  1. The tests you have to go through cost on the order of 700K
  2. Your CUSTOMER is really the product marketing manager of the telco.
     They are driven to monetize the 3G network they set up. They are
     not especially dedicated to open source as an ideal.

  The niche market play is one where we see the most traction. If I want 
to ramp to volume, I'm going to pick the hill where I have traction and
not the slippery slope of a telco play. Crawl, walk run.
> 
> I have the impression that people are already using the phones in many 
> different ways. Some do it in obvious ways for them which might not be 
> so obvious to the majority. How about collecting these use cases and see 
> how you can grow the current specific FR market from here, or gain 
> market share from the general phone market.
Yup that's our impression and the plan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d8Tsvj2TdQ

Our launch into these areas happened march 31st

WRT the general phone market, I'd say we are content to have the android 
distribution cover that demand. That effort is being carried out 
independently of us. I see that as pure upside business. In brazil for 
example, we see a market for 13 million android phones. Do I put this in 
my forecast? No. Will our business change overnight if it materializes?
yes.
> 
> Regards,
> Fernando
> 



From baba_melone at yahoo.de  Tue Apr  7 01:18:45 2009
From: baba_melone at yahoo.de (hab keen oh ne)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 23:18:45 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: AW: Accelerometers in recent kernels (was: Re: [SHR] latest unstable
	with problems!)
In-Reply-To: <20090406224505.GA5623@deb.happyleptic.org>
References: <3494db260904030258g25e9a1aepa59a3c995e81a419@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904052101.58780.michael-tansella@gmx.de>
	<m263higbqm.fsf@home.pavel.comp>
	<200904052134.09096.michael-tansella@gmx.de>
	<m21vs6g939.fsf_-_@home.pavel.comp>
	<20090406224505.GA5623@deb.happyleptic.org>
Message-ID: <797154.43133.qm@web26306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Thanks, and it works.The examples have to be edited, though. I will do this now.




________________________________
Von: Cedric Cellier <rixed at happyleptic.org>
An: List for Openmoko community discussion <community at lists.openmoko.org>
Gesendet: Dienstag, den 7. April 2009, 00:45:05 Uhr
Betreff: Re: Accelerometers in recent kernels (was: Re: [SHR] latest unstable with problems!)

I tried to edit the wiki page about the accelerometer in order to document
this change :

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer_data_retrieval

Please someone review it !


_______________________________________________
Openmoko community mailing list
community at lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



      
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From digitalpioneer at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 01:20:13 2009
From: digitalpioneer at gmail.com (The Digital Pioneer)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 18:20:13 -0500
Subject: ffalarms 0.2.1 and atd-over-fso (now works on SHR-testing)
In-Reply-To: <1239059170197-2595997.post@n2.nabble.com>
References: <878wmq31l1.fsf@ash.lupan-home>
	<1239059170197-2595997.post@n2.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <ffce06340904061620j4fec682elbbe4587dc3d0db1d@mail.gmail.com>

Same on unstable. I could really stand to use this app, if only I could get
it working...
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From karadog at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 01:21:21 2009
From: karadog at gmail.com (HouYu Li)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 07:21:21 +0800
Subject: [QtExtended] screenshot package
In-Reply-To: <20090406204657.13f08294@telenet.be>
References: <20090406204657.13f08294@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <ea736a480904061621v6235857cqc4f9251e7690db33@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Franky. Nice to have the package although I have included it in the
source repo.

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 2:46 AM, Franky Van Liedekerke
<liedekef at telenet.be>wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> for those fortunate qtextended users, I've build and packaged the
> screenshot application from qtextended (it turned out to be quite
> simple).
> You can download and install it in the following way:
>
> # Add a new package server to a running Qt Extended device by using the
> Settings->Software Packages application on the device. Navigate to the
> Downloads tab, invoke the Options context menu and choose the Edit
> Servers option. Invoke Options->New... and enter in the server details
>
> As server details:
> name: franky (or whatever you like)
> URL: http://users.telenet.be/liedekef/qtapps
>
> For the moment only one app is on there (screenshot). Once installed,
> it appears in the application list (ok, the icon seems smaller than the
> rest, but that's about it). Newly taken screenshots appear
> under /home/root/Documents/image/png
>
> I could also provide a ipk, but then the app doesn't appear in the
> application list (maybe it does that on restarting qtextended, but I
> don't like that idea).
>
> Franky
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



-- 
Best Regards

HouYu Li, Karajan

karajan_ii (at) hotmail.com
karadog (at) gmail.com
lihouyu (at) phpex.net

PHP Developer
Red Hat Certified Engineer

Shanghai, China
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From steve at openmoko.com  Tue Apr  7 01:36:36 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:36:36 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <8e0ed1e00904061141q29011478jc70995c01e1b4b87@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>	
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>	
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>	
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>	
	<8e0ed1e00904050513o627a533dwf6230ee6a7e8a04a@mail.gmail.com>	
	<A332A9D0-2BBE-42F4-982F-31E11D9763CD@lollisoft.de>
	<8e0ed1e00904061141q29011478jc70995c01e1b4b87@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49DA9204.9080104@openmoko.com>



Gerald A wrote:
> Hi all,
> I originally wrote Lothar in private, and asked for his permission to repost
> to the list. There have been a few replies in the meantime, but there were
> some good points here.
> 
> Now, I'm not a hardware guy, so take my input with a grain of salt, but I
> have been watching the project for a while, and as a software person I hope
> we can make it work.
> 
> Lothar -- new comments are inline.
> 
> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Lothar Behrens <lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de
>> wrote:
> 
>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 7:08 AM, Lothar Behrens <
>>> lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ok I cannot buy expensive equipment to test hardware that I may have
>>> developed, but I virtually could
>>> develop hardware. But many developers at one subject could spend money for
>>> a rent to let one of the
>>> team do outstanding tests.
>>>
>>> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
>>
> 
>> I have to say -- at this point, I don't think so. It's not that the concept
>>> is impossible, or as you mention above, that testing can't be done. But
>>> based on what OM and FIC before them have reported, it would be very hard.
>>>
>> Yes, it would be hard, but FIC and OM have made a great job. We have a
>> fully functioning phone, but we couldn't easy create our own prototypes to
>> play with. Good ideas are published as the robotics project. If having a
>> really open schematics and even the board design. one could change the
>> formfactor and add his/her needed stuff to play with. If you have to worry
>> about how to enter a completely new schematics from the PDF, the fence is
>> higher to think about jumping over and just DO it.
> 
> 
> Steve has commented a bit about this, as far as a packaging and final
> production are concerned. There might be a possibility to build "modular
> kits" so different hardware (and software) combos could be tried out, but
> translating that into a widget that can be sold as a phone is also a
> consideration. We could put together an awesome phone as a kit that is about
> the size of a CD drive, but then find out that some parts we used aren't
> available in quantities or timelines that make sense to produce a phone. The
> concept is awesome, but I'm not sure it can feed into a real product -- but
> it's something to think about.

  Werner and I are discussing various possibilities. I rule nothing out.

> 
> 
> 
>> Principally, this is due to a moving target. Since everything is obsolete
>>> in a few months, the shelf life of products in the embedded space is very
>>> small. The next big hurdle is in getting specs. OM/FIC were producing
>>> thousands of devices and possibly more, so had better quantities then a
>>> hobby group might muster -- and still had poor access to hardware specs,
>>> when they got them. Now, of course, some of their decisions might have been
>>> practical too (we can get >1000 more closed pieces from company X, while we
>>> can only get ~100 more open pieces from company Y), we don't know.
>>>
>> Yes, the technique is moving forward fast - for the real phone, not for a
>> GSM module for sample :-)
>>
>> Today I have searched for a GSM module and indeed found one with a complete
>> ARM based Linux stack. It would be much too expensive, but when having only
>> the next planned GSM module that will appear in the phone, one could test it
>> on a standard pc. Or even participate in GSM related development only.
> 
> 
> I love the idea of being able to mock up hardware, as it lets the software
> move forward too. But if our test platform can't be translated into a
> suitable form factor, it might be a waste.
YUP. Just to review the GTA03. At one stage the WIFI and GPS had to be 
removed because it didnt fit in the case. If "thin" is in, then using
a module is out, for the most part. How thin is thin? Typical marketing 
answer would be "thinner than the iPhone" but obviously some fat phones ship
> 
> 
>> I had an idea about my car radio. The idea came because I use my Neo to
>> transmit music over bluetooth, then over a FM transmitter to the radio. This
>> is bad quality.
>> There are really much entusiasts building their own carPC in double DIN
>> factor or similar - even small PC barebones. Why not equip it with a GSM
>> module to become a real handsfree carPC + phone. They will benefit from such
>> a module and propably participate in development.
  On of our early partners, in fact, was designing such a carPC and 
wanted to use FR as a dev platform. Alas they demanded a different 
processor ( Intel) so that deal didnt go through.
>>
>> Open the development by also selling parts of a phone for the hobby
>> electronics would increase the audience and the feedback.
>> I don't know how this component has to be deliverded, but I think it must
>> be compilant to some law.
> 
> 
> The current phone stuff already passes those laws. Would it be possible to
> adapt them, on the electronic side? I have no doubt. Steve or someone on the
> OM side might be able to speak to the regulations issue.
  You change the RFs ( antenna/circuits etc) and you have to recert.
  I'll have to take a closer look. I know this, I could not sell the
  STREAKER ( a freerunner with no case) without a recertification.
  Antenna and case are a system.
> 
> Now, there are many people who like the idea of an "open source" phone, but
>>> I think that a lot of them assume it will be polished to the level that
>>> modern Linux distros are up to nowadays. And the truth is, the open linux
>>> phone isn't there yet.
>>>
>>> Now, these aren't impossible hurdles to climb, but they aren't going to be
>>> simple either.
>>>
>>>
>>> What I also think about, is why are there only PDF schematics available?
>>>
>>> I think there were other formats too, but that might have only been case
>>> design. My feeling is that OM isn't trying to be closed about hardware --
>>> but rather make some money selling it and be able to subsidize software
>>> development.
>>>
>> Selling a mobile phone lab with components and the full schematics would
>> propably taken from other companies to participate. They may be able to pay
>> for the kit and inturn
>> help development and give feedback. Think about opencores or the other
>> projects and sites. The open hardware movement is at the way.
>>
>> With such a kit OM could get money, but also feedback - maybe in schematics
>> and board design parts. I am not sure if a board could be divided in
>> subdesigned subboards
>> as schematics could (KICAD). But at least a part could be developed or the
>> design could be overtaken.
>>
>> Small companies could jump onto that train, if such a kit is available. And
>> it eases the jump, if Schematics would be based on open source software like
>> KICAD :-)
>>
>> Dont always think about selling ready usable phones. Think about kits that
>> help driving the idea behind an open phone in general (car PC for sample).
>> The carPC hobby entusiast propably won't buy a not 'ready' phone, but think
>> about adding the hands free phone option in his/her project. This is because
>> he/she is acting in building the carPC.
> 
> 
> 
> If it is possible to delegate hardware development tasks to the
>>> comunity why isn't it done yet?
>>>
>>> I think this is a good idea. Maybe the community could launch a proposal
>>> for what should go into an "GTA0X, X >2". The only problem here is that you
>>> get everyone coming out of the woodwork to add their dream widget to a
>>> phone. And if that got built, we'd need wheels on it to truck it around. :)
>>> What we really need then is a way to get community involvement, but also a
>>> realistic "put your money where your mouth is" way to solicit $$ from people
>>> who are willing to buy the things. Something like, but stronger then, "if
>>> the phone had features (x, y, z), would you pony up $AAA bucks for it?"
>>>
>> Therefore a site with adding votes would be valuable. This eliminates these
>> ideas only few have and push ideas many have.
>> Then propably membership could be enabled to help in that idea...
> 
> 
> Votes are nice, but even with voting you'll end up with lots of good ideas
> and perhaps not so many marketable ones. My thought above there was to put
> your money on the table with a "vote". "My company will by 10 GTA0X.Ys if
> they have sexy widget Z in them, for $500 a pop". Now, that quantity is too
> small to mean anything, but if you get 100 people like that, it might be
> more interesting.
> 
> 
>> Then if there are some results that have a chance to become a real
>>> 'next' phone, a company like openmoko could
>>> think about producing some prototypes. So the company has a reduced cost.
>>>
>>> That's a good question -- what would producing prototypes cost? Maybe
>>> that's the line to take with OM -- we can do the hardware specs, you produce
>>> a few prototypes to see if they work, and then we go to production?
>>>
>> The strength behind the comunity would propably reducing cost of
>> prototyping. Here is a cost sample:
>>
>> http://www.eurocircuits.com/index.php/PCB-production-service-overview/PCB-proto-the-new-PCB-prototype-service-from-Eurocircuits.html
>>
>> I know of another printed circuit manufacturer my mother was visiting with
>> her friend. I'll ask him about such prototyping issues. Maybe he could offer
>> cheaper.
>>
>> The comunity is big and some came to quite good hardware ideas, so why not
>> push the comunity be selling parts as premanufactured elements and let them
>> have fun.
>> Good ideas could be communicated (by voting), cost could be saved when an
>> idea finds more attract and the chances of usable ideas for the next phone
>> could be taken, because the hardware is open source.
> 
> 
>> Swapping prototypes in the comunity would also be an option. Not always a
>> new prototype is nessesary. One may build a wirewrap circuit and an engineer
>> could catch up
>> the prototype to work for a first layout that needs some HF knowledge to
>> get properly working. Others that are interested in a first prototype
>> printed circuit could be served by voting to add room for their ideas needed
>> space on the board as breadboard.
>>
>> It's always the comunity that drive good ideas and thus cost is saved. More
>> boards are cheaper :-)
> 
> 
>  Would a prototype with GSM stuff be ok to be shuffled around? Would the
> cost to produce such boards really be in the affordable range?
> 
> There is one really good electronics project: The internal debug board.
>>> I'm not sure about that. The debug board(s) are one tact, but there are
>>> lots of different neat knobs in the FR. Early on, someone was using the FR
>>> for a small remote boat. Some of that stuff needs a creative mind, and it
>>> might be external to the FR, but it can show what can be done with it.
>>>
>>>
>> I know about the boat, I have watched his video :-)
>>
>> A hardware project site and using open source software for board design,
>> such as KICAD would help to enlarge the comunity. Not all must be inside a
>> phone, something could
>> be at a Eurocard sized board. Say the remote boat or in general a device
>> that supports remote appliances would find more attraction if it would be
>> 'pluggable' on a stacked board. I am not sure how much electronics the
>> remote boat needs, but at least controlling servos.
>>
>> BTW, I had developed a train station clock driven by a Microchip PIC 16F84,
>> a stepup DC/DC converter and a simple H bridge to drive the 'motor' of the
>> clock.
>> Good ideas must be publisched open sourced (I think about that now :-)
>>
>> The project died, because it stuck at soldered wirewrap level board
>> prototype, it was not communicated, therefore no interest came back thus no
>> printed circuits were developed at a next development step. It would have a
>> chance to grow and improve, when it were open sourced and other hobbyists
>> get knowledge about it - the comunity.
>>
>> The project is more than 10 years ago :-(
>>
>> My current hobby is software development and I follow a movement that other
>> argue to be unusable, or only at university level, (so it will be called
>> 'arsed around'), but I don't agree to them. It's great stuff about code
>> generation, MDA / MDSD and the like. It's a movement to a new methology how
>> to develop software. It's not always understood by a mortal developer. They
>> must see that new methologies work.
>>
>> Even a stupid idea like distributed hardware engineering may be a way to
>> earn money. Services like board layout could be payd for. So it will
>> propably not always
>> at a hobby level. Another area is distributed music making - as reported at
>> one of our local TV broadcaster. Things seem not realizeable but must
>> thought twice.
>> Link: http://www.3sat.de/neues/sendungen/magazin/132217/index.html
>> That isn't really related to this thread, but points out, that things are
>> possible.
>>
>> Developing on a board design could also done that way. We have Skype, could
>> share the project files and even could keep versions of design ideas in the
>> CVS
>> or SVN repository. There is only the question if an open source board
>> design could easily converted in a format that - for sample is required for
>> electromagnetic compatibility
>> tests (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_compatibility)
>>
>> Renting equipment or swapping parts would save money, who better could
>> spend in a good layout. Using colaboration like the music sample could also
>> save money.
>> An electromagnetic compatibility specialized firm could inspect a layout,
>> before it will go to a real hardware test.
>> (If the format conversion from open source SW to expensive ECAD SW is
>> possible)
>>
>> Many ideas when sitting at home :-)
>>
> 
> I've been to installathons and other software type events, where the idea is
> to fiddle around with stuff. Would it make sense to do something like this
> in the community? A hack-a-moko day, whether it was sponsored by OM or not?
> While it might not lead to a design that translates 100% into something
> mass-produceable, could that inspire something that is, or it it too far
> away?
> 
> (I apologize for the quoting -- something seems a bit off there)
> 
> Gerald
> 



From robertlazarski at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 01:44:16 2009
From: robertlazarski at gmail.com (robert lazarski)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 20:44:16 -0300
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <49DA8D96.5070207@openmoko.com>
References: <755778.87166.qm@web26301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<49D963CA.3060303@openmoko.com> <49DA3F06.9010301@cmartins.nl>
	<49DA8D96.5070207@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <f87675ee0904061644y2f6e661clc2caeb9f729fc927@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 8:17 PM, Steve Mosher <steve at openmoko.com> wrote:
>
> WRT the general phone market, I'd say we are content to have the android
> distribution cover that demand. That effort is being carried out
> independently of us. I see that as pure upside business. In brazil for
> example, we see a market for 13 million android phones. Do I put this in
> my forecast? No. Will our business change overnight if it materializes?
> yes.

I live in Brazil and I'd be curious to see how you generally could
come up with those numbers. Not doubting, just curious. Its a 200
million people country and my guess is there currently are not 13
million cell phones operating in the entire country that cost more
than the cheapest Andriod-based phone on the market. Even still, I
wish you luck.

- R



From steve at openmoko.com  Tue Apr  7 01:46:16 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:46:16 -0700
Subject: GTA03 List now open at openmoko.org
Message-ID: <49DA9448.7000508@openmoko.com>

Come on in the waters fine.

Steve



From iknowjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 01:46:47 2009
From: iknowjoseph at gmail.com (Joseph Reeves)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 00:46:47 +0100
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <49DA9204.9080104@openmoko.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>
	<8e0ed1e00904050513o627a533dwf6230ee6a7e8a04a@mail.gmail.com>
	<A332A9D0-2BBE-42F4-982F-31E11D9763CD@lollisoft.de>
	<8e0ed1e00904061141q29011478jc70995c01e1b4b87@mail.gmail.com>
	<49DA9204.9080104@openmoko.com>
Message-ID: <958244340904061646l46becd46j29ee5442bc5938d9@mail.gmail.com>

>  Werner and I are discussing various possibilities. I rule nothing out.

Steve, at the OpenExpo Sean refered to the Dash navigator as a
"dashtraction" from the serious business of Openmoko. How will "Plan
B" (which is presumably not a distraction but a means of improving ROI
for FIC) avoid becoming thought of as Dash2?

Thanks for your emails on the subject so far,

Joseph



2009/4/7 Steve Mosher <steve at openmoko.com>:
>
>
> Gerald A wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I originally wrote Lothar in private, and asked for his permission to repost
>> to the list. There have been a few replies in the meantime, but there were
>> some good points here.
>>
>> Now, I'm not a hardware guy, so take my input with a grain of salt, but I
>> have been watching the project for a while, and as a software person I hope
>> we can make it work.
>>
>> Lothar -- new comments are inline.
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Lothar Behrens <lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 7:08 AM, Lothar Behrens <
>>>> lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ok I cannot buy expensive equipment to test hardware that I may have
>>>> developed, but I virtually could
>>>> develop hardware. But many developers at one subject could spend money for
>>>> a rent to let one of the
>>>> team do outstanding tests.
>>>>
>>>> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
>>>
>>
>>> I have to say -- at this point, I don't think so. It's not that the concept
>>>> is impossible, or as you mention above, that testing can't be done. But
>>>> based on what OM and FIC before them have reported, it would be very hard.
>>>>
>>> Yes, it would be hard, but FIC and OM have made a great job. We have a
>>> fully functioning phone, but we couldn't easy create our own prototypes to
>>> play with. Good ideas are published as the robotics project. If having a
>>> really open schematics and even the board design. one could change the
>>> formfactor and add his/her needed stuff to play with. If you have to worry
>>> about how to enter a completely new schematics from the PDF, the fence is
>>> higher to think about jumping over and just DO it.
>>
>>
>> Steve has commented a bit about this, as far as a packaging and final
>> production are concerned. There might be a possibility to build "modular
>> kits" so different hardware (and software) combos could be tried out, but
>> translating that into a widget that can be sold as a phone is also a
>> consideration. We could put together an awesome phone as a kit that is about
>> the size of a CD drive, but then find out that some parts we used aren't
>> available in quantities or timelines that make sense to produce a phone. The
>> concept is awesome, but I'm not sure it can feed into a real product -- but
>> it's something to think about.
>
> ?Werner and I are discussing various possibilities. I rule nothing out.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Principally, this is due to a moving target. Since everything is obsolete
>>>> in a few months, the shelf life of products in the embedded space is very
>>>> small. The next big hurdle is in getting specs. OM/FIC were producing
>>>> thousands of devices and possibly more, so had better quantities then a
>>>> hobby group might muster -- and still had poor access to hardware specs,
>>>> when they got them. Now, of course, some of their decisions might have been
>>>> practical too (we can get >1000 more closed pieces from company X, while we
>>>> can only get ~100 more open pieces from company Y), we don't know.
>>>>
>>> Yes, the technique is moving forward fast - for the real phone, not for a
>>> GSM module for sample :-)
>>>
>>> Today I have searched for a GSM module and indeed found one with a complete
>>> ARM based Linux stack. It would be much too expensive, but when having only
>>> the next planned GSM module that will appear in the phone, one could test it
>>> on a standard pc. Or even participate in GSM related development only.
>>
>>
>> I love the idea of being able to mock up hardware, as it lets the software
>> move forward too. But if our test platform can't be translated into a
>> suitable form factor, it might be a waste.
> YUP. Just to review the GTA03. At one stage the WIFI and GPS had to be
> removed because it didnt fit in the case. If "thin" is in, then using
> a module is out, for the most part. How thin is thin? Typical marketing
> answer would be "thinner than the iPhone" but obviously some fat phones ship
>>
>>
>>> I had an idea about my car radio. The idea came because I use my Neo to
>>> transmit music over bluetooth, then over a FM transmitter to the radio. This
>>> is bad quality.
>>> There are really much entusiasts building their own carPC in double DIN
>>> factor or similar - even small PC barebones. Why not equip it with a GSM
>>> module to become a real handsfree carPC + phone. They will benefit from such
>>> a module and propably participate in development.
> ?On of our early partners, in fact, was designing such a carPC and
> wanted to use FR as a dev platform. Alas they demanded a different
> processor ( Intel) so that deal didnt go through.
>>>
>>> Open the development by also selling parts of a phone for the hobby
>>> electronics would increase the audience and the feedback.
>>> I don't know how this component has to be deliverded, but I think it must
>>> be compilant to some law.
>>
>>
>> The current phone stuff already passes those laws. Would it be possible to
>> adapt them, on the electronic side? I have no doubt. Steve or someone on the
>> OM side might be able to speak to the regulations issue.
> ?You change the RFs ( antenna/circuits etc) and you have to recert.
> ?I'll have to take a closer look. I know this, I could not sell the
> ?STREAKER ( a freerunner with no case) without a recertification.
> ?Antenna and case are a system.
>>
>> Now, there are many people who like the idea of an "open source" phone, but
>>>> I think that a lot of them assume it will be polished to the level that
>>>> modern Linux distros are up to nowadays. And the truth is, the open linux
>>>> phone isn't there yet.
>>>>
>>>> Now, these aren't impossible hurdles to climb, but they aren't going to be
>>>> simple either.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What I also think about, is why are there only PDF schematics available?
>>>>
>>>> I think there were other formats too, but that might have only been case
>>>> design. My feeling is that OM isn't trying to be closed about hardware --
>>>> but rather make some money selling it and be able to subsidize software
>>>> development.
>>>>
>>> Selling a mobile phone lab with components and the full schematics would
>>> propably taken from other companies to participate. They may be able to pay
>>> for the kit and inturn
>>> help development and give feedback. Think about opencores or the other
>>> projects and sites. The open hardware movement is at the way.
>>>
>>> With such a kit OM could get money, but also feedback - maybe in schematics
>>> and board design parts. I am not sure if a board could be divided in
>>> subdesigned subboards
>>> as schematics could (KICAD). But at least a part could be developed or the
>>> design could be overtaken.
>>>
>>> Small companies could jump onto that train, if such a kit is available. And
>>> it eases the jump, if Schematics would be based on open source software like
>>> KICAD :-)
>>>
>>> Dont always think about selling ready usable phones. Think about kits that
>>> help driving the idea behind an open phone in general (car PC for sample).
>>> The carPC hobby entusiast propably won't buy a not 'ready' phone, but think
>>> about adding the hands free phone option in his/her project. This is because
>>> he/she is acting in building the carPC.
>>
>>
>>
>> If it is possible to delegate hardware development tasks to the
>>>> comunity why isn't it done yet?
>>>>
>>>> I think this is a good idea. Maybe the community could launch a proposal
>>>> for what should go into an "GTA0X, X >2". The only problem here is that you
>>>> get everyone coming out of the woodwork to add their dream widget to a
>>>> phone. And if that got built, we'd need wheels on it to truck it around. :)
>>>> What we really need then is a way to get community involvement, but also a
>>>> realistic "put your money where your mouth is" way to solicit $$ from people
>>>> who are willing to buy the things. Something like, but stronger then, "if
>>>> the phone had features (x, y, z), would you pony up $AAA bucks for it?"
>>>>
>>> Therefore a site with adding votes would be valuable. This eliminates these
>>> ideas only few have and push ideas many have.
>>> Then propably membership could be enabled to help in that idea...
>>
>>
>> Votes are nice, but even with voting you'll end up with lots of good ideas
>> and perhaps not so many marketable ones. My thought above there was to put
>> your money on the table with a "vote". "My company will by 10 GTA0X.Ys if
>> they have sexy widget Z in them, for $500 a pop". Now, that quantity is too
>> small to mean anything, but if you get 100 people like that, it might be
>> more interesting.
>>
>>
>>> Then if there are some results that have a chance to become a real
>>>> 'next' phone, a company like openmoko could
>>>> think about producing some prototypes. So the company has a reduced cost.
>>>>
>>>> That's a good question -- what would producing prototypes cost? Maybe
>>>> that's the line to take with OM -- we can do the hardware specs, you produce
>>>> a few prototypes to see if they work, and then we go to production?
>>>>
>>> The strength behind the comunity would propably reducing cost of
>>> prototyping. Here is a cost sample:
>>>
>>> http://www.eurocircuits.com/index.php/PCB-production-service-overview/PCB-proto-the-new-PCB-prototype-service-from-Eurocircuits.html
>>>
>>> I know of another printed circuit manufacturer my mother was visiting with
>>> her friend. I'll ask him about such prototyping issues. Maybe he could offer
>>> cheaper.
>>>
>>> The comunity is big and some came to quite good hardware ideas, so why not
>>> push the comunity be selling parts as premanufactured elements and let them
>>> have fun.
>>> Good ideas could be communicated (by voting), cost could be saved when an
>>> idea finds more attract and the chances of usable ideas for the next phone
>>> could be taken, because the hardware is open source.
>>
>>
>>> Swapping prototypes in the comunity would also be an option. Not always a
>>> new prototype is nessesary. One may build a wirewrap circuit and an engineer
>>> could catch up
>>> the prototype to work for a first layout that needs some HF knowledge to
>>> get properly working. Others that are interested in a first prototype
>>> printed circuit could be served by voting to add room for their ideas needed
>>> space on the board as breadboard.
>>>
>>> It's always the comunity that drive good ideas and thus cost is saved. More
>>> boards are cheaper :-)
>>
>>
>> ?Would a prototype with GSM stuff be ok to be shuffled around? Would the
>> cost to produce such boards really be in the affordable range?
>>
>> There is one really good electronics project: The internal debug board.
>>>> I'm not sure about that. The debug board(s) are one tact, but there are
>>>> lots of different neat knobs in the FR. Early on, someone was using the FR
>>>> for a small remote boat. Some of that stuff needs a creative mind, and it
>>>> might be external to the FR, but it can show what can be done with it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I know about the boat, I have watched his video :-)
>>>
>>> A hardware project site and using open source software for board design,
>>> such as KICAD would help to enlarge the comunity. Not all must be inside a
>>> phone, something could
>>> be at a Eurocard sized board. Say the remote boat or in general a device
>>> that supports remote appliances would find more attraction if it would be
>>> 'pluggable' on a stacked board. I am not sure how much electronics the
>>> remote boat needs, but at least controlling servos.
>>>
>>> BTW, I had developed a train station clock driven by a Microchip PIC 16F84,
>>> a stepup DC/DC converter and a simple H bridge to drive the 'motor' of the
>>> clock.
>>> Good ideas must be publisched open sourced (I think about that now :-)
>>>
>>> The project died, because it stuck at soldered wirewrap level board
>>> prototype, it was not communicated, therefore no interest came back thus no
>>> printed circuits were developed at a next development step. It would have a
>>> chance to grow and improve, when it were open sourced and other hobbyists
>>> get knowledge about it - the comunity.
>>>
>>> The project is more than 10 years ago :-(
>>>
>>> My current hobby is software development and I follow a movement that other
>>> argue to be unusable, or only at university level, (so it will be called
>>> 'arsed around'), but I don't agree to them. It's great stuff about code
>>> generation, MDA / MDSD and the like. It's a movement to a new methology how
>>> to develop software. It's not always understood by a mortal developer. They
>>> must see that new methologies work.
>>>
>>> Even a stupid idea like distributed hardware engineering may be a way to
>>> earn money. Services like board layout could be payd for. So it will
>>> propably not always
>>> at a hobby level. Another area is distributed music making - as reported at
>>> one of our local TV broadcaster. Things seem not realizeable but must
>>> thought twice.
>>> Link: http://www.3sat.de/neues/sendungen/magazin/132217/index.html
>>> That isn't really related to this thread, but points out, that things are
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> Developing on a board design could also done that way. We have Skype, could
>>> share the project files and even could keep versions of design ideas in the
>>> CVS
>>> or SVN repository. There is only the question if an open source board
>>> design could easily converted in a format that - for sample is required for
>>> electromagnetic compatibility
>>> tests (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_compatibility)
>>>
>>> Renting equipment or swapping parts would save money, who better could
>>> spend in a good layout. Using colaboration like the music sample could also
>>> save money.
>>> An electromagnetic compatibility specialized firm could inspect a layout,
>>> before it will go to a real hardware test.
>>> (If the format conversion from open source SW to expensive ECAD SW is
>>> possible)
>>>
>>> Many ideas when sitting at home :-)
>>>
>>
>> I've been to installathons and other software type events, where the idea is
>> to fiddle around with stuff. Would it make sense to do something like this
>> in the community? A hack-a-moko day, whether it was sponsored by OM or not?
>> While it might not lead to a design that translates 100% into something
>> mass-produceable, could that inspire something that is, or it it too far
>> away?
>>
>> (I apologize for the quoting -- something seems a bit off there)
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



From daniel at totalueberwachung.de  Tue Apr  7 02:14:20 2009
From: daniel at totalueberwachung.de (Daniel Willmann)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 02:14:20 +0200
Subject: GSM buzz-fix party in Braunschweig, Germany
In-Reply-To: <20090404041820.06d74717@tm4000.deathstar>
References: <20090404041820.06d74717@tm4000.deathstar>
Message-ID: <20090407021420.1997fe46@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>

Hello Fabian,

On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 04:18:20 +0200
Fabian Killus <fabian at ji-xiansheng.de> wrote:

> I'm really interested in this buzz-fix party. How is it supposed to be
> organized and when exactly? Beginning of may? 

still working on the details, but take a look at
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/BuzzFixParty#Braunschweig and add
yourself to the list.

> Will I have to register somewhere? What is the location in
> Braunschweig? What about warranty from Openmoko?

I have been promised devices from Openmoko and I'm confident that I'll
get them in time so I can replace any Freerunner that broke in the
rework process. For updates on that please watch the mailing list and
wiki page.

> I'm thinking of going by train to Braunschweig bringing one Freerunner
> along. It's a good opportunity for me to visit this city and its
> university (still not sure where I want to study).

Sounds fine. Please be aware that we cannot provide any accomodation if
you want to stay longer.

Regards,
Daniel Willmann
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From daniel at totalueberwachung.de  Tue Apr  7 02:16:24 2009
From: daniel at totalueberwachung.de (Daniel Willmann)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 02:16:24 +0200
Subject: [2008.12] gps sight with gpsd
In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904032226v14aa1d2ex62598ad1cbc8aeeb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2f3aa2770904032226v14aa1d2ex62598ad1cbc8aeeb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090407021624.62d744e7@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>

On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 18:26:02 +1300
Robin Paulson <robin.paulson at gmail.com> wrote:

> i installed gps sight today and fired it up, but couldn't connect to
> the gps. tango was showing a good fix, so gpsd was running. i looked
> on the wiki page, and through some rather ambiguous writing, i
> surmised that gps sight implements it's own intermediary for
> communicating with the gps hardware. is this correct? i turned off
> gpsd, but still couldn't get a fix.
> 
> does gypsy offer an alternative which will work for gps sight, and
> gpsd reliant software?

fso-gpsd offers a compatibility layer so gpsd applications will still
work with the Gypsy DBus interface. The apps will even benefit of the
automatic resource control (GPS gets turned on if a program connects to
fso-gpsd and turns off again after all connections have been closed).

Regards,
Daniel Willmann
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From mail at 3v1n0.net  Tue Apr  7 02:16:52 2009
From: mail at 3v1n0.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Marco_Trevisan_=28Trevi=F1o=29=22?=)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 02:16:52 +0200
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <gre61k$l7s$1@ger.gmane.org>

c_c wrote:
> 3. Seek. Dont know how to use the slider for seeking. Any Ideas?

The attached patch (intone-seek-fix.patch) does the work.
However I've done another one (intone-seek-fix.patch) that reads
continuously (every 0.5 sec) the real position from mplayer and also if
it uses more CPU (I figure, not tested in my FR) it could be better.
However I've not finished that and it requires a fix (since it actually
makes intone hang as soon as the song reaches its end) too.

By the way actually the slider shows the position in seconds; why not
using the percentage value?

-- 
Trevi?o's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/
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From mail at 3v1n0.net  Tue Apr  7 02:28:44 2009
From: mail at 3v1n0.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Marco_Trevisan_=28Trevi=F1o=29=22?=)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 02:28:44 +0200
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <gre61k$l7s$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<gre61k$l7s$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <gre6nt$mk4$1@ger.gmane.org>

Marco Trevisan (Trevi?o) wrote:
> c_c wrote:
>> 3. Seek. Dont know how to use the slider for seeking. Any Ideas?
> 
> The attached patch (intone-seek-fix.patch) does the work.

Ah, I forgot to put an
 if (timer1)
before ecore_timer_freeze and ecore_timer_thaw. Anyway I think that the
slider should be hidden if nothing is playing...


-- 
Trevi?o's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/




From daniel at totalueberwachung.de  Tue Apr  7 02:46:43 2009
From: daniel at totalueberwachung.de (Daniel Willmann)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 02:46:43 +0200
Subject: Remote buzz-fix in Braunschweig or PULSTER?  was: Re:
	Freerunner buzz-fix party in Braunschweig
In-Reply-To: <49D9D849.7000105@dfki.de>
References: <20090406121341.385fa051@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>
	<49D9D849.7000105@dfki.de>
Message-ID: <20090407024643.6d7d68f6@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>

On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:24:09 +0200
Gunnar Aastrand Grimnes <gunnar.grimnes at dfki.de> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I would quite like to have my FreeRunner fixed, but not at the cost of
> driving across all of germany. What about sending it to you (along
> with money for return shipping somehow)?
> There was discussion of this before.

Jup, this will be possible. I don't want to give the official go for
this until I have Freerunners I can exchange in case I break some,
though. I'll keep the list updated about that.

Regards,
Daniel Willmann
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From daniel at totalueberwachung.de  Tue Apr  7 02:54:51 2009
From: daniel at totalueberwachung.de (Daniel Willmann)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 02:54:51 +0200
Subject: [Debian/fsod] Failed to register to network
In-Reply-To: <200904061301.18560.tanuva@gmail.com>
References: <200904061301.18560.tanuva@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090407025451.762b187b@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>

On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:01:18 +0200
Marcel <tanuva at googlemail.com> wrote:

> Moin,
> 
> Since yesterday (iirc) zhone always complains about not being able to
> register to the gsm network, .xsession-errors tells me this:
> 
> Failed to register to network
> network status changed:
> dbus.Dictionary({dbus.String(u'registration'): dbus.String(u'denied',
> variant_level=1), dbus.String(u'strength'): dbus.Int32 (52,
> variant_level=1), dbus.String(u'mode'): dbus.String(u'automatic',
> variant_level=1), dbus.String(u'act'): dbus.String(u'GSM',
> variant_level=1)}, signature=dbus.Signature('sv'))
> 
> "registration denied" - okay. But why? The debuglog of frameworkd
> says something about "no network code", but I cannot interpret the AT
> commands :)

After trying to register in line 26 you get a +CME ERROR: 32 which is
"Network not allowed, emergency calls only". It looks like your card
was deactivated or something, but please check how this card behaves in
a different phone.

> The log can be found here: http://pastebin.ca/1383626
> 
> Then the error occurs. The strange thing is: Yesterday I still
> received an SMS in this state. Can someone light this up?

Not sure what's up with the SMS. Was it an operator generated one?

Regards,
Daniel Willmann
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From cchandel at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  7 04:32:13 2009
From: cchandel at yahoo.com (c_c)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:32:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Intone (0.20 - alpha release) Elementary based mplayer frontend
In-Reply-To: <gre6nt$mk4$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <1238914775262-2587826.post@n2.nabble.com>
	<gre61k$l7s$1@ger.gmane.org> <gre6nt$mk4$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1239071533739-2596701.post@n2.nabble.com>


Hi,
@Trevi?o - Thank you for the feedback and the patch. I'll try and incorporate as much as I can / understand (my e knowledge is pretty scratchy considering this is the first app I've ever written that uses any e). Right now also looking at:-

 a) Bug fixes - like the fact that if you first select a song and play it, the playing subroutine does not update the song_index. (That's done though.) So, if you press play next - the app plays the second song in the playlist - instead of the song next to the song you selected.

 b) GUI / Usability improvements - Like an album art view (minus the album art till I figure out a better way to get art from the net) and a lyrics view which seems easier right now. Also, icons on the buttons, button and list size improvements and so on.

 c) Any show stoppers as far as performance is considered.


I'd suggest you to use as many ecore_* function as you can to use the e loop without freezing your app. 

I think I'm using pretty much all e functions - except those that handle the database. The db functions might be slower - thats one area that could do with some help. Can you point out areas that could be improved using e functions instead? I don't even know that there are e functions for a lot of things :-) I'll read through a few header files to see what I can pick up. 


I'd add just a "tango note" and a "tango folder with note" for the songs and the albums without a specific cover. Use that instead. 

Nice Idea. Will try that as soon as I can.


>Can I reduce the height to say 1.5 text line - 2 text line?

This generally is done automatically based on the elementary finger size and on the scale factor. But I've seen that it can change also if the icon used is quite big. However I didn't see that running intone in my
PC (using illume BTW). 

I can't seem to change the height using scale factor on my PC. Maybe I ought to try it on the FR too.


(BTW it works only in Illume WM, not in my standard system due to the fact that the window collapse withoutconsidering the preset evas size at all!) 

Yup ! Thats exactly what happened to me. OK - so I should try it on the FR. I have the code for it commented out in gui.c. Will try it on the FR ASAP.


Dialog-like windows examples are in the Elementary wiki, maybe you could use them.

I actually wrote a sub-routine (popup_alert in gui.c) to handle a Yes/No kind of dialog. I think I got stuck at passing the value back - because the widow does not grab focus for the duration of the dialog. How do I do that? Must be pretty simple - just that my ecore knowledge is almost non-existent right now :-D


Ah, why don't you use the ecore_exe_pipe_run function for controlling mplayer? 

Ha ! Sorry for being repetitive - but I didn't know it existed! Thanks for pointing that out.


The attached patch (intone-seek-fix.patch) does the work. 

Thanks. Will check that out. Hopefully, thats one thing struck off my list!


By the way actually the slider shows the position in seconds; why not using the percentage value? 

Well, I can try that and see how it feels.


Ah, I forgot to put an  if (timer1) before ecore_timer_freeze and ecore_timer_thaw. Anyway I think that the slider should be hidden if nothing is playing...

OK. Can try that out too - hiding the slider. Will give me one more line too. 

I intend releasing a new version as soon as I can get these things done. There are a few ideas I have, though, that remain unimplemented:-

  1. How can I hide the playlist and instead replace it with an image and some labels (for the album art view)? Can't I avoid the need to use a pager? This way - I also get to write lesser code (and save memory). 
  I'm thinking that if I could control the visibility of a few Evas objects (based on the user clicking the view button) I could have all my views (playlist, albumart and lyrics) in one window itself. Can that be done?

  2. Can I have a slider kind of menu coming in from the sides/bottom? I know it can be done using evas - but I don't know how. That way I can shift out the top 3 buttons (and more that I will add later) from the view so increasing my view area - and yet have them available for use.

  3. I need to add some colours to the buttons (apart from the icons). How do I do that? Do you think that will help - or should it be done by making a new theme?

Thanks again - everybody - for the suggestions. I'm assuming from the lack of bug-reports that either there aren't many show stoppers - or that people haven't got the time to let me know about them yet. Hope it's the first reason though :-)

Any / more feedback is really welcome. So go ahead!
-- 
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Intone-%280.20---alpha-release%29-Elementary-based-mplayer-frontend-tp2587826p2596701.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




From daniel at totalueberwachung.de  Tue Apr  7 04:34:54 2009
From: daniel at totalueberwachung.de (Daniel Willmann)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 04:34:54 +0200
Subject: auimd-0.2, a user interface for mobile devices (and especially
	the FreeRunner !)
In-Reply-To: <200904062245.05101.pierrox@pierrox.net>
References: <200904062245.05101.pierrox@pierrox.net>
Message-ID: <20090407043454.5320b161@adrastea.totalueberwachung.de>

On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 21:45:05 +0100
Pierre H?bert <pierrox at pierrox.net> wrote:

> On Monday 06 April 2009, Risto H. Kurppa wrote:
> > Without trying, to me it looks like a job well done! I think I might
> > try it on Debian at some stage. If someone tries this please post
> > your results!!
> >
> > r
> 
> I forgot to mention that a good way to try it is to simply run auimd
> on a desktop. Of course the FSO framework won't be available, but it
> should run ok :-)

Actually with my Thinkpad X200s I am running frameworkd to control the
built in Ericsson WWAN modem. :-)

auimd looks pretty nice btw.

Regards,
Daniel Willmann
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From steve at openmoko.com  Tue Apr  7 05:53:32 2009
From: steve at openmoko.com (Steve Mosher)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 20:53:32 -0700
Subject: Slashdotted
In-Reply-To: <958244340904061646l46becd46j29ee5442bc5938d9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f87675ee0904041721k7ed09e7se504f6ec2d3a7ce8@mail.gmail.com>	
	<5c6ceea80904041806n46d18e2ag92af6e9ec61b3d61@mail.gmail.com>	
	<5c6ceea80904041839u5b19d82dq81fa0b3931ce0828@mail.gmail.com>	
	<c30e08170904050218g691a5c2er8300fee03742c045@mail.gmail.com>	
	<3D60BDD2-AEBA-4922-878D-68FCDB208095@lollisoft.de>	
	<8e0ed1e00904050513o627a533dwf6230ee6a7e8a04a@mail.gmail.com>	
	<A332A9D0-2BBE-42F4-982F-31E11D9763CD@lollisoft.de>	
	<8e0ed1e00904061141q29011478jc70995c01e1b4b87@mail.gmail.com>	
	<49DA9204.9080104@openmoko.com>
	<958244340904061646l46becd46j29ee5442bc5938d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49DACE3C.4070508@openmoko.com>

Hi Joseph,

  Your project and projects like yours were one of the principal 
motivations behind the decision to focus on FR. GTA03 as defined
would not have met your needs: no wifi, no GPS. Comments below
inlined address your other concerns

Joseph Reeves wrote:
>>  Werner and I are discussing various possibilities. I rule nothing out.
> 
> Steve, at the OpenExpo Sean refered to the Dash navigator as a
> "dashtraction" from the serious business of Openmoko. 
To be specific he said that Dash took 90% of our resources. That
forms the heart of the argument to characterize it as a distraction..
perhaps the better word would be DIVERSION.

How will "Plan
> B" (which is presumably not a distraction but a means of improving ROI
> for FIC) avoid becoming thought of as Dash2?
Project B is not a dash like diversion of resourse. The prototype 
engineering didnt even rise to half the level of a EVT run for a phone.
That's been paid for long ago. Sunk cost. So we have two choices for the
hardware team working on GTA03:

  A: let them continue and they run out of resources 1/3 the way through 
the project ensuring failure.
  B. Keep them relatively intact and have them work to cost down project
    B and bring it to market. and then transition to a more well defined
    GTA03.

Openmoko is not a part of FIC anymore we spun out in 2008.

Having said that, Project B, like all new category devices is a 
calculated risk. In my 11 years at Creative labs I did nothing but bring
new category products to market. It's hard, but it's not impossible.
Finishing GTA03 as it was defined, given our resources, was 
mathematically impossible. I dont know anything more distracting that 
trying to prove that 2+2=5. So, given the choice between what I know to 
be impossible and what I know to possible, I'll pick the possible 
everytime. so would you.
> 
> Thanks for your emails on the subject so far,
> 
> Joseph
> 
> 
> 
> 2009/4/7 Steve Mosher <steve at openmoko.com>:
>>
>> Gerald A wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I originally wrote Lothar in private, and asked for his permission to repost
>>> to the list. There have been a few replies in the meantime, but there were
>>> some good points here.
>>>
>>> Now, I'm not a hardware guy, so take my input with a grain of salt, but I
>>> have been watching the project for a while, and as a software person I hope
>>> we can make it work.
>>>
>>> Lothar -- new comments are inline.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Lothar Behrens <lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 7:08 AM, Lothar Behrens <
>>>>> lothar.behrens at lollisoft.de> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok I cannot buy expensive equipment to test hardware that I may have
>>>>> developed, but I virtually could
>>>>> develop hardware. But many developers at one subject could spend money for
>>>>> a rent to let one of the
>>>>> team do outstanding tests.
>>>>>
>>>>> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
>>>> I have to say -- at this point, I don't think so. It's not that the concept
>>>>> is impossible, or as you mention above, that testing can't be done. But
>>>>> based on what OM and FIC before them have reported, it would be very hard.
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, it would be hard, but FIC and OM have made a great job. We have a
>>>> fully functioning phone, but we couldn't easy create our own prototypes to
>>>> play with. Good ideas are published as the robotics project. If having a
>>>> really open schematics and even the board design. one could change the
>>>> formfactor and add his/her needed stuff to play with. If you have to worry
>>>> about how to enter a completely new schematics from the PDF, the fence is
>>>> higher to think about jumping over and just DO it.
>>>
>>> Steve has commented a bit about this, as far as a packaging and final
>>> production are concerned. There might be a possibility to build "modular
>>> kits" so different hardware (and software) combos could be tried out, but
>>> translating that into a widget that can be sold as a phone is also a
>>> consideration. We could put together an awesome phone as a kit that is about
>>> the size of a CD drive, but then find out that some parts we used aren't
>>> available in quantities or timelines that make sense to produce a phone. The
>>> concept is awesome, but I'm not sure it can feed into a real product -- but
>>> it's something to think about.
>>  Werner and I are discussing various possibilities. I rule nothing out.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Principally, this is due to a moving target. Since everything is obsolete
>>>>> in a few months, the shelf life of products in the embedded space is very
>>>>> small. The next big hurdle is in getting specs. OM/FIC were producing
>>>>> thousands of devices and possibly more, so had better quantities then a
>>>>> hobby group might muster -- and still had poor access to hardware specs,
>>>>> when they got them. Now, of course, some of their decisions might have been
>>>>> practical too (we can get >1000 more closed pieces from company X, while we
>>>>> can only get ~100 more open pieces from company Y), we don't know.
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, the technique is moving forward fast - for the real phone, not for a
>>>> GSM module for sample :-)
>>>>
>>>> Today I have searched for a GSM module and indeed found one with a complete
>>>> ARM based Linux stack. It would be much too expensive, but when having only
>>>> the next planned GSM module that will appear in the phone, one could test it
>>>> on a standard pc. Or even participate in GSM related development only.
>>>
>>> I love the idea of being able to mock up hardware, as it lets the software
>>> move forward too. But if our test platform can't be translated into a
>>> suitable form factor, it might be a waste.
>> YUP. Just to review the GTA03. At one stage the WIFI and GPS had to be
>> removed because it didnt fit in the case. If "thin" is in, then using
>> a module is out, for the most part. How thin is thin? Typical marketing
>> answer would be "thinner than the iPhone" but obviously some fat phones ship
>>>
>>>> I had an idea about my car radio. The idea came because I use my Neo to
>>>> transmit music over bluetooth, then over a FM transmitter to the radio. This
>>>> is bad quality.
>>>> There are really much entusiasts building their own carPC in double DIN
>>>> factor or similar - even small PC barebones. Why not equip it with a GSM
>>>> module to become a real handsfree carPC + phone. They will benefit from such
>>>> a module and propably participate in development.
>>  On of our early partners, in fact, was designing such a carPC and
>> wanted to use FR as a dev platform. Alas they demanded a different
>> processor ( Intel) so that deal didnt go through.
>>>> Open the development by also selling parts of a phone for the hobby
>>>> electronics would increase the audience and the feedback.
>>>> I don't know how this component has to be deliverded, but I think it must
>>>> be compilant to some law.
>>>
>>> The current phone stuff already passes those laws. Would it be possible to
>>> adapt them, on the electronic side? I have no doubt. Steve or someone on the
>>> OM side might be able to speak to the regulations issue.
>>  You change the RFs ( antenna/circuits etc) and you have to recert.
>>  I'll have to take a closer look. I know this, I could not sell the
>>  STREAKER ( a freerunner with no case) without a recertification.
>>  Antenna and case are a system.
>>> Now, there are many people who like the idea of an "open source" phone, but
>>>>> I think that a lot of them assume it will be polished to the level that
>>>>> modern Linux distros are up to nowadays. And the truth is, the open linux
>>>>> phone isn't there yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, these aren't impossible hurdles to climb, but they aren't going to be
>>>>> simple either.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What I also think about, is why are there only PDF schematics available?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think there were other formats too, but that might have only been case
>>>>> design. My feeling is that OM isn't trying to be closed about hardware --
>>>>> but rather make some money selling it and be able to subsidize software
>>>>> development.
>>>>>
>>>> Selling a mobile phone lab with components and the full schematics would
>>>> propably taken from other companies to participate. They may be able to pay
>>>> for the kit and inturn
>>>> help development and give feedback. Think about opencores or the other
>>>> projects and sites. The open hardware movement is at the way.
>>>>
>>>> With such a kit OM could get money, but also feedback - maybe in schematics
>>>> and board design parts. I am not sure if a board could be divided in
>>>> subdesigned subboards
>>>> as schematics could (KICAD). But at least a part could be developed or the
>>>> design could be overtaken.
>>>>
>>>> Small companies could jump onto that train, if such a kit is available. And
>>>> it eases the jump, if Schematics would be based on open source software like
>>>> KICAD :-)
>>>>
>>>> Dont always think about selling ready usable phones. Think about kits that
>>>> help driving the idea behind an open phone in general (car PC for sample).
>>>> The carPC hobby entusiast propably won't buy a not 'ready' phone, but think
>>>> about adding the hands free phone option in his/her project. This is because
>>>> he/she is acting in building the carPC.
>>>
>>>
>>> If it is possible to delegate hardware development tasks to the
>>>>> comunity why isn't it done yet?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this is a good idea. Maybe the community could launch a proposal
>>>>> for what should go into an "GTA0X, X >2". The only problem here is that you
>>>>> get everyone coming out of the woodwork to add their dream widget to a
>>>>> phone. And if that got built, we'd need wheels on it to truck it around. :)
>>>>> What we really need then is a way to get community involvement, but also a
>>>>> realistic "put your money where your mouth is" way to solicit $$ from people
>>>>> who are willing to buy the things. Something like, but stronger then, "if
>>>>> the phone had features (x, y, z), would you pony up $AAA bucks for it?"
>>>>>
>>>> Therefore a site with adding votes would be valuable. This eliminates these
>>>> ideas only few have and push ideas many have.
>>>> Then propably membership could be enabled to help in that idea...
>>>
>>> Votes are nice, but even with voting you'll end up with lots of good ideas
>>> and perhaps not so many marketable ones. My thought above there was to put
>>> your money on the table with a "vote". "My company will by 10 GTA0X.Ys if
>>> they have sexy widget Z in them, for $500 a pop". Now, that quantity is too
>>> small to mean anything, but if you get 100 people like that, it might be
>>> more interesting.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Then if there are some results that have a chance to become a real
>>>>> 'next' phone, a company like openmoko could
>>>>> think about producing some prototypes. So the company has a reduced cost.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a good question -- what would producing prototypes cost? Maybe
>>>>> that's the line to take with OM -- we can do the hardware specs, you produce
>>>>> a few prototypes to see if they work, and then we go to production?
>>>>>
>>>> The strength behind the comunity would propably reducing cost of
>>>> prototyping. Here is a cost sample:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.eurocircuits.com/index.php/PCB-production-service-overview/PCB-proto-the-new-PCB-prototype-service-from-Eurocircuits.html
>>>>
>>>> I know of another printed circuit manufacturer my mother was visiting with
>>>> her friend. I'll ask him about such prototyping issues. Maybe he could offer
>>>> cheaper.
>>>>
>>>> The comunity is big and some came to quite good hardware ideas, so why not
>>>> push the comunity be selling parts as premanufactured elements and let them
>>>> have fun.
>>>> Good ideas could be communicated (by voting), cost could be saved when an
>>>> idea finds more attract and the chances of usable ideas for the next phone
>>>> could be taken, because the hardware is open source.
>>>
>>>> Swapping prototypes in the comunity would also be an option. Not always a
>>>> new prototype is nessesary. One may build a wirewrap circuit and an engineer
>>>> could catch up
>>>> the prototype to work for a first layout that needs some HF knowledge to
>>>> get properly working. Others that are interested in a first prototype
>>>> printed circuit could be s