Lothar Behrens lothar.behrens at
Sun Apr 5 19:39:58 CEST 2009

Am 05.04.2009 um 18:14 schrieb Joerg Reisenweber:

> Am So  5. April 2009 schrieb Lothar Behrens:
>> Hi,
>> I am mostly reading and sometime writing here. If it was useful or
>> useless - I don't know. But anyway.
>> Isn't it possible to also develop hardware collaboratively?
> [...]
> Hi Lothar,
> nope this won't fly. It's basically the sw pov approach to hw  
> development
> Steve mentioned in one of his current posts.

I may read his post...

> Developing hw is more than creating a good looking schematics in  
> Eagle, and
> tasks like layout are partially done by autorouter and the other  
> half is a
> *close* *interactive* process between the layout gal, the EE guys,  
> the RF
> guys, the ME dept, sourcing dept etc etc.

It is indeed difficult. But otoh are many hw projects ( 
  or for sample),
or at least hw related.

> IIRC OM had some really nasty experience when outsourcing some  
> layout task.
> Just because the layout didn't understand exactly what EE had in  
> mind when
> creating the schem, and EE didn't closely check the work of layouters.

I don't speak about outsourcing. I have made similar experiences with  

An EE project (motor control) should be outsourced, but the schematics  
were sent by faximile!
The result was about writing an application to compare the netlists to  
compare the then distinct
projects (different wire names and the like).

So don't split any EE project or work with different versions without  
a CVS or SVN!

But giving development boards or mobile phone development kits would  
be an option to
broaden the idea behind open mobile phone. Say, a GSM kit could be  
used for the carPC hobby
engineer. And there are really GSM modules sold by other companies. ( 

Then you have the control about your pcb design, but propably broaden  
your product palette.

Not all developers need a complete telephone. But you could indeed get  
more value if the
'components' of a mobile device also spread the globe - as a  
development kit or separately.

> for your Q about project files instead of pdf: OM is making money by  
> selling
> hw, so there's not much sense in publishing data that doesn't help  
> EE guys in
> community to understand the hw but instead is only needed for  
> production
> purposes. In the end you can't do anything on a single-device basis  
> with
> layout or schem proj data you couldn't do without it. Or are you the  
> guy
> who's etching 8-layer at home and soldering uBGA by hand? ;-) You  
> can't patch
> a ready-done 8layer PCB, no matter what your document files are (sw  
> POV on
> hw!). And no company is going to invest in producing some dozen  
> proto PCB
> done by "anonymous" community guys, without checking each and every  
> trace and
> footprint again what in the end for sure is more work than doing it  
> inhouse
> from scratch.

I don't mean that you grab the prototypes blindly for your use. But  
didn't you think, the comunity
will also help in hardware aspects?

Maybe the devkit could be coubled with a contest, who develops the  
best mod or addon. Or as an early preview
for developers of software (the display discussion for sample:  
Touchscreen Capacitive (was Re: OT: iPhone howto)).

Did someone yet really implemented drivers for a multitouch display?

Wouldn't it good to get one preassembled from OM to develop for it?

Therefore a kit would be good. Also selling kits for parts only.

Gerald: It is worth to publish the private post :-)

> Other companies tend to keep schematics closed to protect their IP,  
> so we at
> OM at least don't want to give asian cloners a kickstart without  
> adding *any*
> benefit for our customers.

Do you really think, they don't get any value just from the PDF version?
Time will tell us this.

Other companies think about using the same idea behind open source for  
hardware. It's because
of one big issue today: The technologie changes so fast, that  
individual development is too expensive.

Opencores as mentioned above is impressing me. Another group is going  
similar steps in automotive. Even yet
closed and membership is propably very expensive, But there is  
movement in how to develop technical products.


-- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration |
Lothar Behrens
Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2
73252 Lenningen

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