IRC conversation with Mirko from the Paroli team
jeremy.mcnaughton at gmail.com
Mon Mar 16 04:55:14 CET 2009
Mirko, I'm sorry if I came across overly frustrated or harsh.
I'm really excited about Paroli. I've read the startup.pdf and I
check the website regularly for updates. I just want to know more.
Maybe there's some notes from a meeting, plans, brainstorm notes or
something that's not on the site? I don't know, and I realize it's
probably not up to you. But for me as a novice developer who's trying
to learn, the more I can read the better.
So yeah, one day you might get patches from me. First I'm just trying
to learn this stuff, and my feedback to the company is that more info
(about Paroli in particular) would be appreciated.
Forgive my lack of patience,
On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 3:00 AM, Mirko Lindner <mirko at openmoko.com> wrote:
> I tried to stay out of this thread as the discussion drifted away from
> paroli towards general discussion about OM's behavior, which is not
> controlled by me, but it seems to me that here 2 things are mixed that
> simply are unrelated and I am being judged based on a conversation log(!)
> and deemed unfriendly and what not.
> Jeremy McNaughton wrote:
>> I've got to agree that some more communication about Paroli would be a
>> good thing.
> Ok, valid point.
>> After all, what was the point of selling the phones so early in the
>> development cycle in the first place? Right on the main page of the
>> wiki it says: "Openmoko is a project driven by a community of
>> passionate and intelligent volunteers. If you have the ability, please
>> contribute to our cause. Openmoko's ambitions far exceed the resources
> What does that have to do with paroli?
>> It can't be both ways. If Openmoko wants the community to help and/or
>> develop for projects like Paroli, they need to be responsive when
>> their volunteers ask for more information.
> If I get asked about info regarding paroli, its code or what we are trying
> to achieve I am all in. But in this case I was not asked about any specifics
> but Paul asked about the "hidden" department which controls all of OM and I
> found his question demeaning and out of place, let alone his wording.
>> With Paroli in particular I can't see it being such a big deal to size
>> the window so it can be used with Illume. At least for right now,
>> until more time can be dedicated to whatever mysterious way we'll
>> eventually use to switch back and forth can be implemented.
> Sorry to be a bit rough here, but:Have you looked at the code? Do you know
> what actually is the problem? If so why don't you simply send a patch? Or
> ask for commit rights?
> What bugs me here is that I am being pushed around for a) things that are
> not related to paroli and b) based on your assumptions.
>> And while I don't know anything about the previous conversations
>> between Mirko and Paul, I really hope that I never get dealt with that
>> way by anyone with an openmoko.com email account. Nobody's perfect
>> and I don't want to single Mirko out, but the conversation in the
>> above IRC logs are less than stellar. Not a great way to deal with
>> volunteers whose effort you're hoping to benefit from, especially when
>> those volunteers are also paying customers.
> Paul and I have a short but drastic history of communication and I can
> assure you that is not my normal tone. I am not a fan of people going around
> a blaming so if that happens I either don't respond or become defensive, I
> think that is normal behavior.
> In regards to the "anyone with an openmoko.com email account" I believe that
> the underpinning idea, which is we have to always suck up what ever we get
> thrown at us and smile, nod and be happy about it, is simply wrong. This is
> a community project and "volunteers whose effort I am [you're] hoping to
> benefit from" of course are not met with disrespect and rudeness. I spend
> much time talking and chatting to explain how stuff works and why we do it.
> And so far you are the first person to suggest I am rude, from a secondary
> I am willing to put up with a lot because I know of the companies history
> and all that and I have done so. However there is a point when I simply have
> to say, Ok, suffered enough, now I think demanding fair treatment both ways
> is what is needed.
> So to put it very simple, the way a question is asked determines the way I
> answer. If I feel mistreated I will certainly not play happy, because I am
> doing my best to drive this forward and and also spend my free time on this
> project (yes I work much more than my official hours) so I do not see why I
> should not react as anyone else would.
>> In general however I think Openmoko is starting to do better with
>> communication, Paroli being a notable exception.
> Again I think you are going over the top and put negative energy that you
> have towards the company as a whole towards a single project that happens to
> come your way. Sorry to be so blunt but I see this mail as an attack on the
> work I have done so far and this attack is founded on false-grounds.
> I agree with one point I could communicate more, but then also give me a
> point, there could be more patches and less complainging about unimplemented
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