Openmoko Beagle Hybrid

Tue May 25 08:05:03 CEST 2010

Am 23.05.2010 um 15:12 schrieb Martijn van Dongen:

> Nikolaus,
>
> I agree you should first play with something that is available.
>
> The information I got is from eurocircuit.com,
> The price is based on 4 layer 150 * 60 mm; just a wild guess of the  
> size and layers based on standard technology, but giving an  
> indication.
> More about the possibilities can be read in http://www.eurocircuits.com/images/stories/ec09/ec-services-leaflet-uk-english-4-2010-v2.pdf 
> . I did not check any guidelines and requirements, so hard to say  
> what suits. If somebody could provide more detailed information or  
> point in a direction, a more serious price could be obtained.

Ok, I see. They are a pooling supplier like others (pcb-pool,  
multipcb, etc.), but unfortunately such a project is well outside  
their offer.

Just to mention some more or less important differences (I have not  
looked into all of them):
* PCB thickness - 1.0 mm (or it will not fit into the Freerunner case)
* 8 layers needed (or we can't connect all the many pins of the OMAP  
BGA)
* stacked/filled Microvias (this is something like a minimum drill of  
0.1 mm)
* 0.1 mm wire width
* etching and stop mask printing precision good enough for <0.3 mm SMD  
pads (BGA pitch is 0.4 mm)

We have done some analyses and none of the online-pcb-shops can  
provide this. Therefore we asked several manufacturers by e-mail and  
most declined because they can't handle micro-vias. Some could do it  
but they said that our requirements drive PCBs cost up to factor 10. I  
don't know how the OpenPandora solved this (but they have produced  
4000 boards so the cost may come down through to large volume). And, I  
don't know how the BeagleBoard project solved this. But I have read  
somewhere that they have only 6 layers (not using all features of the  
OMAP) and 3000 units per batch. Maybe, someone has also sponsored the  
prototyping phase where you have to produce boards at 500 EUR each.  
And then you find one misplaced connection or component :(

For the Openmoko Beagle Hybrid we have just 2 layers (but no OMAP on  
board). So cost is much lower and comes into the range you have found.  
But we will add some margin to cover our development and prototyping  
cost.

So that is the status as of today. If we can find a design that has  
big enough demand, we can bring down cost of PCBs to be insignificant  
(but only if we don't change the PCB design every now and then).

This finally will lead to the question how many of us want to own such  
a new OMAP based motherboard for the Freerunner... But I think we are  
too early to really pose this question since for solid market  
research, one has to present at least a full concept (complete feature  
list and target price).

BR,
Nikolaus

>
> Regards,
> Martijn
>
>
>
> 2010/5/21 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller <hns at goldelico.com>
> Yes,
> this all can be considered for a future version.
>
> What we wanted to start with is something that just works, is easily  
> available, can be used for experimenting and software development  
> and is not too costly. A nice case, a new PCB for the OMAP processor  
> or using the Gumstix makes things much more expensive.
>
> @Yocto: what has to be considered is that the Gumstix does not fit  
> into a Freerunner case (it is still too large/thick).
>
> @ Martijn: the OMAP BGA poses high level requirements for a new PCB.  
> So I would be surprised if one can really get such PCBs for 15 € @  
> 50 units. But do you have more information? What have been your  
> assumptions about # of layers, min. drill size, min. width etc.?
>
>
> Nikolaus
>
>
>
> Am 21.05.2010 um 15:48 schrieb Yocto:
>
>> > I haven't seen a discussion about redesign of the board, the  
>> design files (schematics in Orcad) are available, so you can  
>> downsize the connectors used and fit it in an existing casing.
>>
>> Could we, also, consider the option of using a "smaller" board like  
>> the Gumstix Overo ?
>>
>> OMAP3503 with ARM Cortex-A8 at 600MHz
>> 256MB RAM / 256MB Flash
>> [ 17mm x 58mm x 4.2mm ].
>> http://www.gumstix.com
>>
>> Regards,
>> // Yocto
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Martijn van Dongen
>> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 5:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
>>
>> Hi,
>> First of all: nice project, could be a nice follow up for the  
>> freerunner.
>>
>> I have been looking at the discussions a little bit. Main  
>> discussion is how to make a new casing that fits around the beagle  
>> board, how to produce and what it costs.
>> I haven't seen a discussion about redesign of the board, the design  
>> files (schematics in Orcad) are available, so you can downsize the  
>> connectors used and fit it in an existing casing. I have a price of  
>> a PCB (without parts) at low volumes (50 pieces) at less than €15.
>> Assembly of low quantitiy boards will be very expensive (make it  
>> double the components price), so a DIY project for assembly of the  
>> boards will make the PCB fit for a reasonable price.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Martijn
>>
>>
>> 2010/5/11 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller <hns at computer.org>
>> There is now a new Wiki page for the project:
>>
>>        http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid
>>
>> I have received some questions why we did not put all this into a  
>> nice
>> design. The main reason is that we can't redesign the Beagleboard (it
>> has fixed dimensions) and we can't afford to build plastic injection
>> moulds (if someone has an idea how to reduce cost this is very
>> welcome). So the easiest solution was to combine what we have: a  
>> given
>> Beagleboard and the Freerunner case.
>>
>> Other questions were what one could do with this. Here some ideas  
>> (not
>> assuming it is complete - you may have more and it is a platform for
>> your creativity):
>>
>>        • experimenting with touchscreen and new user interfaces on  
>> Beagleboard
>>        • learn how the OMAP3530 CPU works
>>        • make it a truly open mobile application development  
>> platform by
>> adding a battery pack and a UMTS usb stick
>>        • investigate how an Openmoko with UMTS and OMAP3530 feels  
>> (not from
>> haptics but screen operation and UMTS speed)
>>        • porting SHR, QtMoko, Android, etc. to ARM-Cortex A8
>>
>> And here some feature list:
>>
>>        • PCB that fits into Freerunner case (top cover and middle  
>> part after
>> cutting a hole)
>>        • works also without such a case (except speakers and earset)
>>        • Toppoly LCM interface (same display as used in the  
>> Freerunner -
>> otherwise it would not fit into the case)
>>        • TSC2007 touch screen controller
>>        • Microphone
>>        • Earset and Speaker connector (for those sitting in the  
>> Freerunner
>> case)
>>        • 2 buttons (AUX and Power)
>>        • 2 dual color LEDs (in the AUX and Power buttons)
>>        • vibracall driver
>>        • headset jack to connect microphone, earset and speaker
>>
>> For the software, we have to rearrange the code on our server a  
>> little
>> and then it will be made public.
>>
>> Finally, here you can do preorders:
>>
>>        http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%20Beagle
>>
>> Nikolaus
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>>
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