<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi Gerald, Ed (I try to merge thoughts a little...)<div><br><div><div>Am 30.12.2011 um 19:22 schrieb Ed Kapitein:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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On 12/30/2011 06:59 PM, Gerald A wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:CALoJWN1eBfvm7Kv3K_20DTTd_1NAt3kUphzKM1iR-5vLmmHpuQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Dr. H.
Nikolaus Schaller <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:hns@goldelico.com">hns@goldelico.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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<br>
The other strategy is the one taken by Apple. They have a very
low<br>
marketing budget compared to other companies. And the media
are<br>
still happy to report every small move at no cost...<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>... which is because Apple is super secretive, so even
"rumors" become big news.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>While this is a great strategy, it becomes difficult to
achieve if you are trying to have everything "open".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What I think is lost in all of this is the question: Who is
the intended customer?</div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Currently: those who own a GTA01 and GTA02 or are willing to give it away.</div><div><br></div><div>There are approx. 18000 units out there waiting for a potential upgrade to a</div><div>GTA04 board. And we just have 56 group tour orders within 6 weeks. This is</div><div>0,3 %...</div><div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><blockquote cite="mid:CALoJWN1eBfvm7Kv3K_20DTTd_1NAt3kUphzKM1iR-5vLmmHpuQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've seen some people talk about linux geeks, etc etc.
However, at least for the first rev of the GTA04,</div>
<div>it's _hardware_ geeks, and hardcore ones at that, which is
the focus.</div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Not necessarily. The hardware is done and has almost been proven to work.</div><div><br></div><div>There may be bugs inside we will learn about only in the future, but there is a core</div><div>team to iron this out. Not the community nor the owner has to do that.</div><div><br></div><div>The main complaint with the GTA01 and GTA02 was that the processor is very</div><div>slow and the Glamo is crap. And, there is no UMTS. And it has no USB 2.0.</div><div><div><br></div><div><div>Now we finally have the GTA04: a motherboard replacement just doing</div><div>that with 800 MHz Arm-Cortex A8, 3D graphics accelerator, integrated DSP</div></div><div>coprocessor, and 14 MBit UMTS. Ready to be used by the linux geeks...</div><div><br></div><div>So it is a solution to the main complaints with the GTA01/02.</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><blockquote cite="mid:CALoJWN1eBfvm7Kv3K_20DTTd_1NAt3kUphzKM1iR-5vLmmHpuQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are lots of unix-heads that would love a phone that is
"free-er" then Android or Apple let you be.</div>
<div>But having to buy a phone, then cannibalize it with another
kit you buy? It's definitely outside the</div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><blockquote cite="mid:CALoJWN1eBfvm7Kv3K_20DTTd_1NAt3kUphzKM1iR-5vLmmHpuQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite"><div>mainstream.</div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div>Only those who don't own a GTA01 or GTA02 yet have to buy something</div><div>(either a used GTA01/02 or hopefully soon a case kit).</div><div><br></div><div>All others don't really have a reason to keep their GTA01/02 and have a</div><div>GTA04 in parallel.</div><div><br></div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><blockquote cite="mid:CALoJWN1eBfvm7Kv3K_20DTTd_1NAt3kUphzKM1iR-5vLmmHpuQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
<div>Now, it's not that I don't want this project to succeed. I
think it's a great cause -- I was one of the early</div>
<div>GTA01 (neo) buyers.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For me, I don't have time right now to assemble a Freerunner
and a GTA04 to get a working phone</div>
<div>"with possibilities". I want the completed package, then end
result. The neo was shipped with the slogan</div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div>This takes approx. 15 minutes. Rarely more. And we have an installation service if you don't want to</div><div>DIY (I would appreciate if there will come up local resellers or hacking groups in your area).</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><blockquote cite="mid:CALoJWN1eBfvm7Kv3K_20DTTd_1NAt3kUphzKM1iR-5vLmmHpuQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
<div>"some assembly required", which gave you the right idea. I
thought that it just needed a good software</div>
<div>stack to make things great. (I still do).</div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div>There is a lot of progress towards this. Neil Brown has almost everything working in a Linux 3.2 kernel.</div><div><br></div><div>And QtMoko brings almost everything to the User Interface. So what is missing? Just some weeks of</div><div>ironing out the final bugs. And more OS options to be ported. If the developers keep the speed (these</div><div>activities did not start before October this year!), it will be perfect when the Group Tour devices are ready to ship...</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><blockquote cite="mid:CALoJWN1eBfvm7Kv3K_20DTTd_1NAt3kUphzKM1iR-5vLmmHpuQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What might work is having people invest, rather then "buy"
something. That's something I could wrap</div>
<div>my head around. "Make the open phone happen -- Invest now".
Don't make it complicated or expensive.</div>
<div>"$10 in one 'block'" kind of thing. Maybe 40 blocks would
allow the "investor" to see a completed phone,</div>
<div>if one was to ever be produced. Make the risks clear -- the
"open phone" might never come to market,</div>
<div>but if we get 5000 blocks sold, we then have the muscle to
negotiate with the big boys.</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>The issue here is what is in it for the "little guy", and I'd
be a bit fuzzy. 40 blocks gets a phone, but</div>
<div>what if I buy 2? Do I get the use of a phone for a week? :P I
also don't know the legal side of calling</div>
<div>it an "investment" (rather then a donation or a purchase).
But this would be simpler to "market", and</div>
<div>would have better funding potential then selling the kit.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As an aside -- if I have extra cash, I might be willing to
buy a kit or two -- but they would either end up</div>
<div>as donations to others, or as a dust collector. So it's not
that I'm not willing to put money into it. But </div>
<div>I also realize that one or two more kits won't make this
happen in isolation.</div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Well, to me it looks as if you own a GTA01 that is not used? Maybe you could think about donating</div><div>it to someone who urgently wants to have a new case for a GTA04?</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><blockquote cite="mid:CALoJWN1eBfvm7Kv3K_20DTTd_1NAt3kUphzKM1iR-5vLmmHpuQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
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<br>
My thoughts too, set up a kind of micro credit, where people can
lent money, lets say 100 euro, and with that money build the
phones.<br>
Once the phones are made, more developers can develop different
aspects of the phone and people will see the GTA04 become more
mature.<br></div></blockquote></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">I think success stories with video clips on youtube will convince
more people to buy a GTA04 then good stories on paper.<br>
And the microcreditters can either get their money back once all
phones are sold, or can get a 110 euro discount when they buy a
GTA04.<br>
<br>
Just my thoughts..<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
Ed<br>
<br>
PS<br>
i guess you must be Dutch to come up with a micro credit plan in
west-europe ;-)<br></div></blockquote><br></div><div>Well, the problem is not to get a credit to produce the devices in advance. </div><div><br></div><div>The problem is that every credit must be paid back after a while.</div><div><br></div><div>And the only way to do that, is that someone finally buys the hardware at the</div><div>price that it costs (plus a premium for the credit!).</div><div><br></div><div>If nobody finally wants to upgrade to GTA04, a (micro-)credit doesn't help...</div><div><br></div><div>So we should not ask one group to take the risk and others to take the GTA04.</div><div><br></div><div>But what about this idea: Group Tour orders with partial payment.</div><div><br></div><div>The key reason for the hard deadline is that we must order some components in</div><div>big batches (mainly Memory, CPU, UMTS modules, PCBs). E.g. making 4 orders</div><div>100 chips each is much more expensive than ordering 400 in a single batch.</div><div>And it may be even impossible to get anything smaller than a minimum batch</div><div>size defined by the chip manfacturer or distributor.</div><div><br></div><div>Now the idea could be that it is only necessary to collect let's say 250 EUR until</div><div>the deadline. This is sort of a credit that we really can order the critical components</div><div>mentioned above. Then, the subscribers have some more time (e.g. up to 6 months)</div><div>to collect and pay the remaining money. And we produce on demand (production</div><div>in smaller batches is also a little more expensive but the effect is smaller than for</div><div>components and PCBs)</div><div><br></div><div>What do those of you think, who still hesitate to subscribe to the group tour to upgrade</div><div>your existing GTA01 or GTA02?</div><div><br></div><div>Nikolaus</div><div><br></div><div>PS: Taking too much credit is what the Greek state did do wrong. They are no</div><div>longer able to pay back neither the interest rates nor the credit without subscribing</div><div>to another credit.</div><div><br></div></div></body></html>