New Life in Openmoko Phones
methril at gmail.com
Sun May 24 22:00:15 CEST 2009
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Nils Faerber
<nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de> wrote:
> Werner Almesberger schrieb:
>> Nils Faerber wrote:
>>> Wouldn't it be more fruitful to create a project that is only concerned
>>> about providing the best possible tools, hardware and software, for
>>> braking into and reverse engineering existing devices?
>> There are already a number of projects that do exactly this, such
>> as OpenEZX and gnufiish. There are a number of limitations to this
>> approach, though:
> Fully aggree about all the limitations - we have all been there, tried
> that and failed to various degrees.
> What I am wondering is if it would be possible by providing a single
> project putting together all the bits and pieces and developing the glue
> could solve the problems that reverse engineering usually suffers from.
> For example it is currently still a major pain to setup and configure
> OpenOCD correctly for your target. Would it probably be possible to
> develop a large part library and create proper auto detection? That will
> automagically detect the JTAG chain, parts on it and offer programming
> and debugging options?
> Collect and integrate tools for signal analysis, decoding, disassembling
> etc. in a manner like KiCAD - collect and integrate well along with
> simple hardware designs to attach to target devices.
> I also think that reverse engineering projects have become easier
> recently since many of the design houses and manufacturers do not
> reinvent the wheel everytime they make a new device. They rather base on
> reference designs and do only slight modifications. Not all of them of
> course, but enough to satisfy the open source community with a variety
> of devices.
> I think of devices like the HTC ones that have become easier and easier
> to hack over the years.
> There are of course beasts that are unlikely to be hacked anytime soon,
> like some of the Motorola ones or almost all Nokia phone devices (I
> don't know of any hack trying to break into a Series60 device though
> they should be able to run Linux).
I've a phone not working properly that could be used for this
purpousses. The problems are that i didn't know a lot about the Nokia
architecture, and i'm not able to read some "JTAG like" interface.
They have MDBUs ,but i didn't know f this is enough.
In the other hand most of the hardware (at least CPU) are ASICS that
make harder to develop anything over them.
If you have any "documentation" or tip to start some hacking on these
devices, i would be really happy to start it.
>> Of course, none of this means that this approach is guaranteed to
>> fail, there is the success story of the WRT54G, but that's also
>> a much simpler and extremely long-lived device.
>> So the bottom line is that I don't think this approach can only
>> scale if you can convince the company whose phone you "opened" to
>> cooperate with you. And it's unlikely that they would be able to
>> open their design, even if you could convince them they should.
> This is indeed unlikely, for many "good" reasons.
>> On the other hand, the approach where you own the design can be
>> brought to mass-production with anyone's support. Even a small
>> carrier or a consortium of interested parties could do it.
>> Furthermore, an open design lowers the barrier of entry for people
>> who want to make variants. Not only do they not have to license
>> the design, but they also don't depend on a single company to
>> support them.
> The setup cost is still very unattractive even if you want to build a
> project with a respectable number of devices.
> I would be extremely glad if a manufacturer would jump on such a train!
> But I am sceptical about it.
>>> Hardware is needed in the form of good debug adapters. Those would be
>>> much easier to have made than a complete phone device. Good software is
>>> needed for the hardware debuggers and also for disassembly analysis,
>>> protocol analysis etc.
>> I think in terms of tools, both approaches can share a lot. A
>> protocol analyzer will help you debug your own implementation
>> just as well as it will help you to discover a vendor's mystery
> He :)
> The world could be so much better if mobile devices would be as open as
> PCs - then we could save so much effort and do what we all really like
> to do, develop software and not tools to develop software.
>> - Werner
> nils faerber
> kernel concepts GbR Tel: +49-271-771091-12
> Sieghuetter Hauptweg 48 Fax: +49-271-771091-19
> D-57072 Siegen Mob: +49-176-21024535
> hardware mailing list
> hardware at lists.openmoko.org
o0 Methril 0o
More information about the Gta03