locating via GSM, revisited (legal issues?)

[joerg at openmoko.org]

Am Di  22. April 2008 schrieb Harald Welte:
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 06:35:28PM +0800, joerg at openmoko.org wrote:
> > Am Di  22. April 2008 schrieb Harald Welte:
> > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 05:59:29PM +0800, joerg at openmoko.org wrote:
> > > > Am Mo  21. April 2008 schrieb Werner Almesberger:
> > > > > joerg at openmoko.org wrote:
> > > > > > For many countries there are ageold databases created by hobbyists 
> > doing 
> > > > > > antenna-spotting. In Germany, carrier O2 sends quite exact 
> > Gauss-Krueger 
> > > > > > coordinates on CBC 221 for each of his stations.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Okay, that's good. So we can have a comprehensive geographical 
database
> > > > > we can put our "GSM n-space" in relation to. (Although no motivation
> > > > > was ever stated, I'm assuming here that the goal of the whole 
exercise
> > > > > is to avoid using GPS. Thus we can't correlate vectors we measure in
> > > > > GSM n-space to 2D or 3D real-world vectors we measure with GPS.)
> > > > > 
> > > > > Is there something like openstreetmap with these antenna locations 
or
> > > > > does one have to hunt and gather from scattered repositories ?
> > > > 
> > > > Dunno...
> > > 
> > > At least in Germany the location of the cellular towers (especially
> > > combined with the information if they're GPRS, EDGE, UMTS or HSDPA) is
> > > considered a trade secret by the operator.
> >
> > Quite obviously not for O2! They at least send Gauss-Krueger for every of 
> > their BTS, and you may receive this with any simple cellphone. So which 
kinda 
> > secret is this then?
> 
> the point is not what kind of actual secret it is.  The point is that
> you are working in a licensed radio band. licensed to the operator.  The
> operator can send data on this band all day long, unencrypted.  As long
> as you have no permission by the operator, you may not legally use that
> data!
> 
> > As long as you can legally acquire the info (you also might use a map and 
a 
> > photocamera with tagging), and it's not offensive nor copyrighted or mere 
> > false, you very usually may publish it whereever and in any amount you 
like.
> 
> the problem is that there is no legal way to acquire that information
> unless you have explicit permission by the operator to use it.

At O2, it's GSM-CellBroadcast, this is _explicitly_ _designed_ to be received 
by *any* cellphone (permission included). Grab your phone, activate 
Cellbroadcast channel number 221, and if you're in Germany and on O2, you 
*for* *sure* have *legal* info about the exact position of your BTS. No 
database needed, O2 is giving it away for free :-)

You're not going to say I can buy a simcard + phone at any O2 shop, but I'm 
not allowed to press the buttons on this phone to enable cell-broadcast. Are 
you?

/jOERG