OK, the forum is coming..

Andreas Kostyrka andreas at kostyrka.org
Tue Jul 24 20:19:02 CEST 2007

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Well, the point is that mail clients are tuned for text communication.
Webbrowsers are tuned to present a page or application downloaded from a


Daniel Robinson wrote:
> The fact that you are subscribed to 20 different mailing lists and you
> would find it difficult to read all of that information on 20 different
> forum UIs is your issue, and it is not the responsibility of this
> community to address.
> To state, axiomatically,  that mailing lists are more efficient is to
> attempt proof by assertion.
> The goal is communication, not rightness.  How is communication best served?
> --Dan
> On 7/24/07, *Andreas Kostyrka* <andreas at kostyrka.org
> <mailto:andreas at kostyrka.org>> wrote:
> No, it's just habits. And it's not about Engineers, it's about long time
> email users. (I mean the generation before the invention of the "http
> protocol". If one can consider HTTP 0.9 to be a protocol ;) )
> And yes, email is important to these old timers. Mailing lists are quite
> well standardized, there are less than half a dozen mailing list
> management packages that matter, and even these have mostly the same
> behaviour. I'm subscribed on more than 20 mailing lists (most of these
> in the Linux/Python/PostgreSQL realm), that I follow more or less
> depending upon work pressure. I can keep a tab on these mailing lists,
> because they use a standard interface.
> Navigating 20 different "forums", is not feasible:
> -) I need to actively pull information. That's time I could be already
> using to read messages.
> -) the UI of forums is really not uniform. I need to join, login
> (depending upon the forum and my browser setting each time, every 2
> weeks, never), manage to find if new messages that might interest
> me, ...
> -) the UI of mailing lists is my known standard mail client.
> You can see the difference, e.g. my wife participates in a forum based
> cooking community. Notice: "relative newcomer" (less than a decade
> Internet experience), 1 community (not dozens of mailing lists needed).
> Basically, mailing lists are more efficient. Not necessarily easy on
> newbies. (And yes, efficient does not mean easy. Efficient is measured
> in units like "transaction" per "time unit". And I can clearly "process"
> (or decide not to "process") more messages per hour in my mailer than
> with my browser)
> Andreas
> Daniel Robinson wrote:
>> What is it about engineers that they act like any idea other than
> theirs
>> is not worthy of consideration?
>> I don't know any of you, and I am only responding to this email
> because
>> it is typical of the kind of traffic that has been going back and
> forth
>> about this issue.
>> Don't build your house on ice?  This is typical of the dismissiveness
>> with which people have responded about this issue.  The straw man
> being
>> used here, that wanting one position or the other is as meritorious as
>> building one's house on ice, is not valid.  It smacks of
> sanctimony and
>> that should be avoided.
>> On 7/24/07, *Ted Lemon* <mellon at fugue.com
> <mailto:mellon at fugue.com> <mailto:mellon at fugue.com
> <mailto:mellon at fugue.com>>> wrote:
>>     > Quite frankly I am completely, totally,
>>     > overwhelmingly baffled at the resistance to the
> forums.  Quite a few
>>     > people have expressed their dislikes of mailing lists and
> how they
>>     were
>>     > *very* reluctant (like myself) to join.
>>     Worrying about your email address being exposed is pretty silly.
>>     That's like worrying that the ice on a pond will break when it
> melts in
>>     the spring and your house will fall in.   Don't build your
> house on
>>     ice.
>>     As for forums, they are very nice for casual use.   They are
> terrible
>>     for staying in touch, unless you visit them obsessively.   The
> nice
>>     thing about a mailing list is that the mail keeps arriving in
> your
>>     inbox, you see it go by, and you can pay attention or not as
> you choose.
>>     And if you miss something, it's easy to go back and find it.
>>     Forums aren't bad - they're just different.   I think it would
> be great
>>     if the casual traffic migrated to a forum.
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> <mailto:community at lists.openmoko.org>>
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> <http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community>
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