Virtual QWERTY Keyboards to be used with Fingers...

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) raster at openmoko.org
Sun Feb 24 17:10:15 CET 2008


On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 05:38:50 -0500 "Kevin Dean" <kevin at foreverdean.info>
babbled:

> Having fussed myself about the change from QWERTY to T9, what raster
> is planning solves the issue. I actually prefer non-qwerty as long as
> there's some kind of predictive input that reduced the number of key
> presses.
> 
> I'm quite excited to see what comes of this. Any idea where on this
> list of things to do this falls?

next month :)

> On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 4:14 AM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler
> <raster at openmoko.org> wrote:
> > On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 04:53:34 -0300 "Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri"
> >  <barbieri at profusion.mobi> babbled:
> >
> >  i intend to first give a predictive qwerty keyboard a go - why? well
> > qwerty is familiar and requires only 1 press per letter. it seems the
> > qtopia predictive kbd works pretty well on the gta01 and gta02 - so now
> > it's a cvhance to improve on it wiht configurable layout, keys etc. etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >  > On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 10:43 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> >  > <mail at 3v1n0.net> wrote:
> >  > > Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri ha scritto:
> >  > >
> >  > > > On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 6:49 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> >  > >  > <mail at 3v1n0.net> wrote:
> >  > >  >> I'm really excited waiting for the Freerunner to be available to
> >  > >  >> the public, so I'm looking around searching the resources I'll
> >  > >  >> need more.
> >  > >  >>
> >  > >  >>  I think that one of the most important thing when it comes to the
> >  > >  >> daily phone use, is the virtual input device that imho it should be
> >  > >  >> completely usable with *fingers* (the stilus isn't portable!)
> >  > >  >> giving the users the same confort that the key-based devices give.
> >  > >  >>
> >  > >  >>  To get the best usability and speed while writing I do think that
> >  > >  >> is needed a QWERTY style keyboard (If you've ever tried a
> >  > >  >> blackberry you'd know what I mean).
> >  > >  >>  Actually there are two alternatives: the QTopia predictive
> >  > >  >> keyboard [1] that works quite well if used with a good dictionary
> >  > >  >> (also if it should be improved for writing new words), and the
> >  > >  >> iphone-like virtual keyboard [2] that is already available for
> >  > >  >> N800 and that should be easily portable to Openmoko too.
> >  > >  >>
> >  > >  >>  Any other? If there are some others I don't know them, but the
> >  > >  >> solutions I've tried using the Openmoko GUI with qemu aren't so
> >  > >  >> good imho. I think that some virtual qwerty keyboards should be
> >  > >  >> developed also considering that Openmoko supports the landscape
> >  > >  >> view (not using accelerometers yet, but it does it!) and that mode
> >  > >  >> could/should be used for writing, so we could use more space to
> >  > >  >> put keys in!
> >  > >  >
> >  > >  > Hi Marco,
> >  > >
> >  > >  Hi Gustavo!
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >  > I disagree on this, QWERTY keyboard is a no-go for OpenMoko. I'm
> >  > >  > using iPhone for about 2 months and I wrote the one you cited, so I
> >  > >  > think I have some knowledge about it :-)
> >  > >  >
> >  > >  > Reasons:
> >  > >  >   - iPhone vkbd is not so great, even on iPhone hardware. The
> >  > >  > landscape version is almost usable, but the vertical is bad - but
> >  > >  > acceptable, see below.
> >  > >
> >  > >  Well, I've tried the iPhone virtual keybard (not only on the iPhone
> >  > > but also in the iPod touch, that it's the same) and it's not so bad
> >  > > imho... Of course the vertical view is really better than the
> >  > > landscape one but considering how I use the T9 based phones, I'm
> >  > > really a much faster
> >  >
> >  > I guess you mean the other way around, using keyboard in landscape
> >  > mode (like iPhone browser)
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > >  writer using this kind of keyboard, also if sometimes I do mistakes.
> >  > >  That's why I think that the pressure should be compared char-by-char
> >  > >  with a dictionary!
> >  > >
> >  > >  >   - iPhone has no sunken screen, with borders that make you loose
> >  > >  > many physical space. This happens on Maemo devices as N800 and it's
> >  > >  > painful in Canola and that vkbd mockup I wrote. I do not have a
> >  > >  > OpenMoko hardware yet, but I suspect it will be even worse, as the
> >  > >  > screen is more high dpi and smaller in physical size.
> >  > >
> >  > >  Yes, that's could be true, but in landscape view I think it could be
> >  > >  usable in Freerunner too...
> >  >
> >  > I dare to say it's not even without trying. Our experience with Canola
> >  > is that you waste more than 30px in each edge due the border, in
> >  > OpenMoko it should be even more. Given that each click area must be
> >  > around 100x100 to have good hit rate, then you guess you'd not have
> >  > much space to fit around 10 keys on 1 row.
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > >  >   - iPhone has a capacitive (not pressure based), VERY sensitive
> >  > >  > touch screen.
> >  > >  >   - Running my prototype on N800 was not so bad because the screen
> >  > >  > is huge and you have plenty of space, but you often miss some
> >  > >  > clicks due the pressure based touch screen.
> >  > >
> >  > >  I don't know how it is in Freerunner, but there's no software control
> >  > > on it?
> >  >
> >  > it's a physical limitation: the screen need pressure to emit hardware
> >  > signals, while the capacitive just needs contact, you barely need to
> >  > touch in order to produce hardware signals.
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > >  > That's why I think it's not a good option. We better keep with some
> >  > >  > kind variation of T9. I already talked to rasterman about that and
> >  > >  > he have a great idea of a key matrix (3x3 or 4x3) that would behave
> >  > >  > like number keypad, but the labels would weight the key with
> >  > >  > greatest probability of being used (based on dicts, T9 like).
> >  > >
> >  > >  As I've said, I don't love T9 neither 9x9 keyboards as they're
> >  > > commonly meant (the ones used for years by key-based phones) maybe Lars
> >  > >  Hallberg keyboards [1] are a little more usable...
> >  >
> >  > I think it's not much diferent from T9, just a implementation that
> >  > utilizes software capabilities better.
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > >  > The major problem with T9 is it takes time to train and have it
> >  > >  > behave fine for you. One option would be to provide a service (pc,
> >  > >  > web or on the device itself) to feed with personal texts (mails,
> >  > >  > docs, ... text you wrote) so it will optimize for it.  Other
> >  > >  > improvements could be abbreviations and maybe mode selection to use
> >  > >  > even more optimized dicts (language based and terms based, like
> >  > >  > "polite", "3733t speech", "development"...).
> >  > >
> >  > >  This is a good idea...
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >  > What we need to do is implement something fast, with good feedback
> >  > >  > and users will get used... people already got used to write
> >  > >  > "graffiti", T9, ... and even QWERTY... they will learn yet another,
> >  > >  > just make the behavior predictable and help the user whenever
> >  > >  > possible.
> >  > >
> >  > >  Of course, but the one I feel better with (and with I'm more
> >  > > productive) is the QWERTY way :P, maybe because I'm using it for too
> >  > > many years! :P
> >  >
> >  > yeah, mee too, but physical space is an important issue we have to deal
> >  > with :-/
> >  >
> >  > --
> >  > Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
> >  > http://profusion.mobi - Embedded and Mobile Software Development
> >  > --------------------------------------
> >  > MSN: barbieri at gmail.com
> >  > Skype: gsbarbieri
> >  > Mobile: +55 (81) 9927 0010
> >
> >
> >  --
> >  Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <raster at openmoko.org>
> >
> >


-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <raster at openmoko.org>




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