FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??
kevin at foreverdean.info
Wed Mar 19 15:56:12 CET 2008
On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 10:29 AM, Lally Singh <lally.singh at gmail.com> wrote:
> [snipping to keep it short]
> [ for everyone who's tired of reading these -- sorry. the community's
> easily as (actually, more) important than the hardware product itself.
> debates like this are as important (imho) as those debating how much
> RAM the device has or what cell frequencies should be enabled. ]
> I abbreviate here for brevity, not to ignore any points you've mentioned.
> On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 10:25 PM, Kevin Dean <kevin at foreverdean.info> wrote:
> > Perhaps you allude to this, and if so, I agree. If not, then I ask you
> > to tak a step back and recognize the varied and diverse reasons that
> > people value Free Software.
> I agree. The self-motivated, ready-to-go, already-commited ones
> aren't the ones I worry about. It's everyone else. Two groups come
> to mind: 1. The beginners who would be contributors. 2. The coders
> who are looking for a project to work on. A honey-vs-vinegar
> approach would help in both areas.
> > The first day I installed Debian GNU/Linux I was told "Read the
> > fucking manual". Back then, they weren't nice enough to abreviate it
> > for me. :)
> Responding to such a request like this:
> RTFM: <url of documentation>
> The old RTFM comment goes back to the older unix days, when you had
> good printed documentation, but no google. It's fair to assume that
> people would look for documentation before asking... They already
> searched plenty to find the mailing list!
> > Every person told RTFM is a person being told to be responsible for
> > themselves. Where you see it inspiring a developer to avoid I project,
> > I see it inspiring a hacker to start hacking.
> People still choose which projects to spend their time on, as we're
> really competing with other projects for contributors. It helps not
> to treat them as spoiled, lazy children.
> > Again, I don't disagree with you here on principal, but I do question
> > the logic being asserted - OpenMoko is the ONLY platform advocating
> > use freedom and control so all of the evidence we have on one side or
> > the other is questionable at best.
> Others have pushed conceptual products (in this case, freedom) vs
> traditional functionality before. E.g. OpenBSD's cryptographic
> freedom (hence) and security as a cultural decision. As they don't
> bring (initially) any new functionality to the table at start, we
> *have* to recruit heavily to build a community. The ones who'd come
> in for selfish reasons don't see anything for them until someone else
> has made the system useful. The few exceptions are folks who need
> specific, easy-to-implement features easily built atop the existing,
> raw, openmoko stack. IMHO, not too many by itself.
> It's like a compound interest equation for a savings account. The
> initial amount put in is how many people believed in the original
> ideals of the project (remember the account starts at zero, so we only
> have ideals to start with). What they put in builds interest --- the
> results of their work interests more people. Those people's
> contributions (even if it's just evangelizing) adds onto the balance
> in the account --- building interest themselves. The cycle continues
> Maybe that metaphor made more sense in my head than out loud.
> But, everyone's got their buy-in point. The amount of work required
> to make the device useful/interesting for them. More work than that,
> and they're not interested. Any coder will tell you that they spend
> as much time going through documentation and other people's source as
> they do writing your own. That's where the community comes in: if
> it's easy to get help, the amount of work spent looking up
> documentation/help reduces, and we have more developers who were just
> waiting for the project to hit their buy-in point. Open source
> projects charge a price in hours worked, not dollars. Never pretend
> that the former isn't easily worth as much as the latter.
> H. Lally Singh
> Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
> Virginia Tech
> OpenMoko community mailing list
> community at lists.openmoko.org
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