Thanks too Steve + query re new ID

Steve Mosher steve at
Mon Apr 20 00:55:43 CEST 2009


   Thanks. Comments below.

Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
> Steve,
> 1)  Your comments and color commentary background on the GTA03 list
> are VERY informative. Thank you!
> 2) How solid are the cost estimates for new ID, all the way through
> tooling? Do you assume top rank designer like Apple or Rim or ...
> would use?

    Cost estimates on a new ID. Basically I'm giving you numbers based
    on top notch ID guys. That is what GTA03 had. Also my past in
    overseeing Camera design ( DSC and webcams) and MP3 designs ( less so
    here as Creative 'insourced' designs after the first couple of 
products.) But as a general rule of thumb I'd expect to get sketches,
    renderings, 3D Shells, samples  for  no less than 100K.. ah
    on the schedule... 4-6 months. YMMV. Then you have the ME work
    where the plastic meets the sand ( silicon) sometimes its a snap.
    other times a PITA. This is a tricky workflow interface. Some ID
    guys like to control the ID all the way through the mech.. But
    mech must interface with PE.. so you get changes required by
    PE that can flowback  through Mech to ID.. However you do it
    ID, MECH and PE must be tighlty coupled.

    Tooling costs: ballpark 150K. But again YMMV. it depends on the 
number of tools, how many times you fuck it up. special processes.
    And who cuts your steel. I've seen quotes below 50K. I cant
    vouch for the finish there. Anyways, the GTA03 ID was pretty
    damn good (and I've shipped designs that won effin art awards)
    I'm recalling numbers around 250K for the tooling.. could have
    been less when all was said and done. so YMMV.

> What is approx. breakout between conceptual design vs. the journeyman
> 3D CAD work to turn concept into files to hand off to the tool house?

   That's really hard to put numbers on. I'll just talk about my days
   before OM. and use an example from the camera business.
   My first two cameras:


    Go click on clients. click on creative labs.)

    two cameras. one made it to market the natulus.. the binocular one 

    The first stage of design.. sketches and renderings is pretty
    easy. The next stage was vastly different for both.the final stages
    was life for one, death for the other.

    The natulus camera was easy from the mech side. EE was off the
    shelf. The biggest issue was the flash.. which really ruined the
    beauty of the orginal design, but hey it still won an award.

    The binocular camera was a mechanical and EE nightmare. I fought
    with optical problems, flash problems, sensor problems, battery
    arggg.. cost.
    The camera was a joy to hold it fit in your hand perfectly
    but at the end of the day I couldnt make a final solution.
    Today I probably could ( back then we had only low quality
    CMOS  available to us.. )

> p.s. tiny correction.
> I think you met w/ Rasterman in Oct 2007 not 2008.;)
   YA... time flies, then you die.
> ---
> Ron K. Jeffries
> _______________________________________________
> Gta03 mailing list
> Gta03 at

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