GTK vs QTopia vs Android - (was: Re: Android needs applications)
(will be: new vision for openmoko)
Schmidt András
asch at freemail.hu
Fri Nov 16 15:25:56 CET 2007
Hi
You are jumping from one place to other too fast for me. I am trying to
arrange it into points by filtering the thoughts through myself:
* Think the Linux kernel is the same below all platforms: OpenMoko,
Google android, and Qtopia.
* OpenMoko and Android share same goals:
o open platform that interoperates between devices from
different vendors.
* There is an analogy with Gnome-KDE:
o I don't think KDE is better than Gnome or Gnome is better
than KDE. There are applications that I like more in KDE and
ones I like in Gnome. But they can all be executed on a
single desktop! I think that's what open mobile platforms
should also do. You can select whether to install an
OpenMoko, a Qtopia or Android. But that selection should not
prevent you from installing applications written to the
other platform.
o So I believe the OpenMoko community should consider
implementing Android API to work on the OpenMoko operating
system. Not more. Suggesting that OpenMoko should be stopped
in favour of Android and QTopia is something very rude on an
OpenMoko development list.
* There are privacy problems with Google. Google filters too much
information. Google may use its platform to gather even more
information about the users. Personally I don't like it. Although
it may not prevent me from wrinting Android applications.
Ross Burton says:
>Last time I looked, the full Android stack wasn't open
>source. They say
>it will be, but until it is Android is a closed platform
>running on
Linux.
Thats the exact point why I don't like Google's Android yet. If they
want it to be supported soon they should open Android implementation
now. Some mailing list entry has suggests that Google makes money by
supporting hardware vendors to make their devices Androidable. I don't
know whether OpenMoko will pay for it.
Michael Schmidt says:
>For that we need a clear launch date of Neo in the online shop and we
>need a clear - in accordance to the community - agreement on which
>operating system all - and then really *all* should agree and work on
>this neo-launch - developers and applications then work.
I think Neo and OpenMoko are trying their best to be on market as soon as possible. The problem is that they are too much in a hurry. They could give an exact launch date that will not be canceled but that would not be accepted by the users. That's why they are estimating too optimistic and then they re-schedule the project so often.
Schmidt András
Michael Schmidt írta:
> Hi
>
> If I understand it right, the neo phone has now three options for an
> operating system
> - the current openmoko GTK operating system
> - Qtopia from Trolltech
> - Android linux from google.
>
> It is right that a the community is devided between Qt and GTK, and
> that additionally the community is splitted between android linux and
> openmoko linux
> Third the lead developers are exhausted.
>
> How can we bind that all together, is google replacing openmoko? no.
> we just need a vision.
> Openmokos idea was to make an open source operating system against to
> microsoft mobile phone windows.
>
> Now we have three...
>
> You can say, Openmoko is now only a discussion list, a plattform to
> discuss things (Bulletinboards??).
>
> And we have neo, which needs some hardware actualization due to the
> market standard, e.g. bigger screen, touchpad if not in,
> DVB-T-Television/mediaplayer, good applications based on wifi, meshing
> networks (B.A.T.M.A.N.) and others.
>
> And we need a launch !! Quick done, as the OLPC laptop has forced it
> in the last months..
>
> Maybe some developers do not care about the money, google has offered
> for the best 10 applications, but care about the philosophy.. to build
> an open source phone with the latest ideas and applications.
>
> First of all appreciate that there are now 3 actors against closed
> source microsoft.
> And: yes.. google graps the open source philosophy into money. Some
> might be caught, others not.. though you need not see it equal = open
> source = without coders getting paid.
>
> Yes.. maybe android apllications run as well on openmoko, we can work on that.
> So this can contribute to the challenge, to build an alternative to
> the G-Phone based on Android.
>
> We need to summarize up the ideas and people - with which philosophy
> ever - (and I guess a lot of application developers for android will
> of course consider, that they can run on the openmoko OS and phone!!)
> to get a LAUNCH!!
>
> The idea of an mobil phone laptop might be the best vision to work on.
> Google might be convenient and adresse the mass market, but people,
> which do not want deliver all the data to google, who has when phoned
> from which location to which participant (see the data retention law
> in the EU and the massive demonstrations against this!!!)
> might be interested into an alternative to google phone.
>
> While the openmoko phone will adress linux geeks and users, who are
> more technically advanced and know, that google is doing evil things
> with your privacy. DO NOT PHONE WITH GOOGLE, will be their slogan..
> and this is was the day, openmoko phone was born.
>
> This means, not microsoft gets an alternative open source mobile phone
> operating system, but google.
>
> You get many users, which will make an application running on both
> systems, the openmoko phone and the google-android phone.
>
> The last thing now to discuss, is, which Operating System (gui) for
> the Openmoko Phone is better, if android applications should run as
> well on it?
>
> Do we need then the GTK-OS or the Qtopia?
>
> If then the choice is Qtopia, then there is a project team needed, to
> announce this result of this question. So perform a technical lead,
> which is integrating all working with GTK !
>
> So the question is, WHO is joining/interesting the GTK-Community to
> work on Qtopia?
>
> Last comment to the events to the last days might be this:
>
> Open Source is not the key factor for an alternative to Android or Microsoft.
> And Do we need an alternative to Android? This is open...
> But yes of course, the new focus is, that we need an alternative to
> DATA CAPTURING by google.
>
> So let us develop a phone, which is a mobile laptop, with a lot of
> feature, which protects the privacy of users.
>
> One example based on the core functionality of a phone: you need a
> phone to phone,
> you have analog calls and VOIP.
> if it is a laptop, then maybe some other data transfers are done, so
> e.g. especially for data retention you can hide VOIP data
> amoung/inbetween other data transfers.
>
> Imagine now an echelon computer fetching all words you say and
> bringing spoken advertising into the phonecall .. the same principle
> like google mail analysing the text of mails and presenting the
> FITTING ads in the sidemenue.
> Or Imagine the local geo-data of the phone cell gives us an spoken
> advertisement of the restaurant next door, from the point you do the
> call.
> and so on and so on... many ideas for google to fetch the data of the
> user, phoneing, calling , saving, contacting, storing reading etc..
>
> Google means to be a synonym for all informational and communicational
> processes a human beeing is doing, google is a filter, which you
> should adopt to the synapses of your head.
>
> I do not want that, and therefor we need the Openmoko Different from
> google phone.
> Back to the core competencies on phoning,
> If you implement VOIP, then you have the chance to encrypt voip calls,
> you even can handle them without any ISP, if you choose WIFI or MESH
> networks (B.A.T.M.A.N., https://www.open-mesh.net/batman ) etc.
>
> If you want to encrypt VOIP, then there is just end to end encryption
> ( which is breakable) and there is the idea of www.zfone.com from mr.
> Zimmermann.
> One third idea is to build a serverless VOIP on a Friend to friend
> system, where the encryption is done by the exchange of PGP keys. (
> http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=618174 )
>
> Each PGP key is then your adress to initiate an VOIP Phone Call.
>
> http://sourceforge.net/search/?forum_id=618174&type_of_search=forums&group_id=178712&words=VOIP
>
> As this is Qt based, maybe the Qtopia system is as well a plus here.
> Voiping on top of IP using encrypted PGP channels.
>
> Other good linux initiatives are the all in one (serverless)
> adressbook, like telepathy and so on...
>
> These ideas should only give an example, what all is possible to
> implement, which is protecting from google´s data collecting
> activities.
>
> So maybe you can put out a clear plan,
> - if GTK OS or Qtopia is on the NEO,
> - Who is doning the launch
> - When the lauch is dated for a purchasing in an online shop
> - which VOIP security could be build in
> - How the GTK community can support that operating system
>
>
> Or do we should make both systems on the neo? as gnome and KDE is on linux?
> Personally I think KDE as won and bundling the energy right from begin
> is the better way.
>
> Another option is to make GTK for the current Neo and Neo II is
> prepared for Qtopia, but I think launching Neo I is hard enough.
>
> Can anyone make a poll, which of both is now the way to go?
>
> Thanks and kind regards
> Mike
>
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